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Fleet RCS and Big ships
axellightning
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi all,
To the point.
Is having these consoles that give a big boost in turn rate such as these new Fleet RCS consoles; along with other Fleet consoles (armor) also having the choice of turn modifiers with them, going to help big ships with low turn rates turn quicker? OR is there a limit on how much a slow turning ship can gain from these consoles?
Is having many of these consoles in a build wise?
Note: I do realize the majority (including myself) do not have access to these consoles yet, but please speculate/debate.
To the point.
Is having these consoles that give a big boost in turn rate such as these new Fleet RCS consoles; along with other Fleet consoles (armor) also having the choice of turn modifiers with them, going to help big ships with low turn rates turn quicker? OR is there a limit on how much a slow turning ship can gain from these consoles?
Is having many of these consoles in a build wise?
Note: I do realize the majority (including myself) do not have access to these consoles yet, but please speculate/debate.
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Post edited by axellightning on
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The reason is simple, if i need more turnrate to make a slow turning ship viable, it is more beneficial to pick a different ship with a similar layout (and usually 1 aft weapon less and 10-20% less hull) that has a better turn rate. Wasting multiple slots of a ship just to "almost" get it where one of the nimble smaller ones are at the expense of multiple console slots is just not worth it.
One of the problems i have run into with that is, that the other modifiers of the fleet armor/rcs consoles are not really that amazing and that there isn't always a better turning ship available with a similar boff/console layout.
Then again, improving the turn rate of a beam boat seems rather pointless. Even a marginal repair or hull bonus would be better for those kind of ships.
What about on, say, a battle cruiser.. :rolleyes:
if ur playing a JHDC, then u need turn...then u want tachyo converter and the armor consoles with RCS on them, and u want the helmsman trait...and u wanna run APO3 instead of APB3 for turn rate, and u want doffs to cool down evasive maneuvers quicker.
Your best bet: focus on minimizing weakness...yes...but dont make it so much of your build that it sacrifices other areas your ship is strong in
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
So what you're saying is...instead of basing RCS off a percentage of ship turn, you have not given RCS a fixed amount of turn boost?
old way...+20% of 8 turn cruiser is less than +20% of 14 turn escort...causing escorts to gain higher turn value from the console.
new way...+x turn added to all ships, where x is a fixed amount based on the console level and rarity
A (the?) community issue is that a proportionately higher effect on high-turn ships, while technologically sound, still seems unfair: ships that need the console to turn quickly don't get as much benefit from the console as those that don't need it.
The LoR fix for the console was greatly appreciated, IMO, but it keeps the multipliers issue that the game seems to keep running into... ships with moderate to high base stats can stack multipliers and percentage bonuses to achieve extremely high final stats, but those with low base stats need to stack as many just to get to where the other ships start.
However, now the arbitrary -3 has been removed, so you just get X% of base, straight up, without any magic constants penalizing you.
They still affect more agile ships more than less agile ships. To be useful RCS consoles should boost the base turn modifier or provide a set degrees/second boost. Currently my steamrunner gets twice the benefit that my excelsior does while needing it half as much.
I am not whining that my cruiser turns like a cruiser, just saying that cruisers don't benefit from RCS consoles. For a ship with a turn rate 13 or higher I would get fleet consoles with the [turn] proc, any other ship would do better with a different proc. Of course in PVE you hardly need a higher turn rate anyway, but it does come in handy
No, that's not what he's saying.
The above explanation by doffingcomrade is correct. I will give more detailed math below.
First, a few definitions:
TR: turn rate in system space at 1/4 impulse or greater
BTR: base turn rate
ITF: a number that I call "impulse thrusters factor"; empirically, the value is between 0.38 and 0.39
SIT: Starship Impulse Thrusters skill (0 to 99)
RCS: bonuses from RCS-like consoles (includes tachyokinetic converter and dilithium mine consoles)
helm: helmsman trait
EP: engine power
ETM: engine [Turn] modifier
Before Legacy of Romulus,
TR = BTR + (BTR - 3)* (ITF * SIT / 99 + RCS + EP / 100 + ETM).
After Legacy of Romulus,
TR = BTR + BTR * (ITF * SIT / 99 + RCS + helm) + (BTR - 3) * (EP / 100 + ETM).
As you can see, the -3 penalty has been removed from RCS consoles and Starship Impulse Thrusters, but it still applies to engine power and the engine [Turn] modifier. Note that the -3 penalty does not apply to the [+Turn] modifier on dilithium mine consoles. In the above formulas, I have not included any active buffs. The formulas with active buffs are more complicated, because some buffs do not stack with each other. Also, some buffs use BTR - 3, while others use BTR.
In my opinion, turn rate math is currently quite confusing. It is difficult to know which percentages apply to BTR and which apply to BTR - 3. Also, the game does not document how SIT and engine power affect turn rate. Players have to reverse engineer the math through testing.