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My hypothesis, Fleet defiant retro is better then JHAS
mothermoy
Member Posts: 53 Arc User
Why is this statement wrong? the two ships are so similar. Im thinking the out of cloak damage boost juuuust puts the defiant over the top.
Post edited by mothermoy on
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In short, the Fleet Defiant may have its perks, but it ain't one-upping the JHAS.
The out-of-cloak damage boost is 15% boost to damage for 5 seconds. That's about time for a single alphastrike. It's a nice extra boost, that much is sure.
However, take into consideration the JHAS's higher turnrate and faster speed. This allows it to outmaneuver the Defiant and most other escorts, thus allowing it to keep targets in its weapon arc with greater ease. This leads to higher DPS, especially in PvP.
Fleet tactical escort does not come with a cloak so the 15% should not be counted. Yes it can use one but unless it comes with one it would be a false to count it.
Not only its increased maneuverability but the better BOFF layout increases surviveability. That means it can stay in the thick of battle for longer periods of time increasing DPS even more. You cant lay down damage if you are dead or out of combat range healing.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
There are many, many reasons why you see the JHAS sell for 500 million EC outside of (supposed) "rarity."
The next nastiest thing out there is a Fleet Ha'Feh.
And as for the cloak, I find I don't even bother equipping it - the eng console slot is better utilized by a unique universal or even a neutronium since the thing's hull is paper thin.
All of which is why my FTER sits in the hanger. And if and when I feel like taking a break from my FAHCR "uber ship," I'll trot out my Fleet Patrol. Much better Boff flexibility and a 4th eng console slot to boot.
RCK
Of the Fed Escorts, the Defiant is the one that causes the most concern to us in the KDF for PVP. A well played Defiant hits damn hard and is slippery to come to complete grips with. It has the option of a cloak, which is a big deal when it escapes, repairs, then recloaks and chooses when, where, and who to hit at its leisure. Not taking advantage of the cloak is a big mistake (Defiant and Gal-X should have innate cloaks, IMO, and not stuck to a console). The cloak presents a tactical advantage to exploit.
Really, the KDF players would KILL to have a vessel like the Defiant to use.
My only negative using the JHAS, it moves so friggin fast its hard to stay focused on the ship when flying it, gives me a headache... even when zoomed all the way out. It's also so hyper-sensitive when you move left to right or up to down. for me, a 41 year old... it hurts my eyes trying to fly such a zippy little ship.
With the Defiant, I found you have a little more setup and positioning to time your de-cloak alpha strike. Then, once your out of cloak its kinda pointless to turn it back on since it's not a battle cloak... takes forever to turn back on. This really matters in PvP, whereas others will see you run and simply go after you.
WHY? here's why...
cmdr tac: APB3, CSV2, CRF1, TT1...thats all you need on a ship running cannons...
everything else should go to amplifying survivability and damage production.
lt. cmdr. should be...sci or eng
and there should be a minimum of 2 lt eng boffs for dual aux2batt
The most efficient setup I could see on a ship...
Tac cmdr
sci lt. cmdr.
eng lt. cmdr.
eng lt.
I get my EptS, EptW, aux2batt, HE, TSS, RSP, DEM...on top of my aforementioned tac cmdr abilities above.
assuming u run the proper doffs with purple conn officer, 3x purple technicians, and 1 marion dulmer, u get 30% cooldowns on all abilities per aux2batt activation, plus maxed out weapon power
What if the player likes to use torpedos?
Or Beam Fire At Will.
Or Beam Overload.
Or Attack Pattern Delta.
Or Attack Pattern Omega.
Or Dispersal Pattern Alpha.
Or Dispersal Pattern Beta.
Or the 4 different Target Subsystem abilities.
In short, the guy you referred to doesn't like using much TAC abilities
That's right people it's Aux2Bat or GTFO, your crappy non Aux2Bat builds are holding us back. You think your Sci ship is a reason not to run Aux2Bat? No if your using Aux based Sci Powers once again GTFO. Aux2Bat all the time every where, every ship. Anything else is simply ruining the game.
I expect that Shuttle to be Aux2Bat too, let's stop wasting time people.
I]Sarcasm[/I
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
i dont set up my torp boats the same as I do my beam boats, nor the same as my cannon boats...
I do more damage with DHC/DC/turrets than I do running full beams broadside, thus its my default build.
If i wanted to run a CRUISER then yes I would build a different setup around beams, and even then it depends on PvE or PvP as both requirements are vastly different based on the SHIP #1 and the needs of my mission #2.
If I wanted to play torp boat as part of a team PvP, thats yet another build.
I could play a "beamscort" build, but the point of running beam boats is to draw threat and constantly provide DPS...thus I need BFAW as my main choice. I need to fly like crazy around the battle to max out defense due to lower hull rating...I should also run subsystem target weapons to prevent myself from getting wiped too quick. its forcing an escort to do a job that it wasnt designed to do, and in PvP, that means a lot of respawns...not fun.
Simply because of my comment that the defiant is inefficient due to the boff layout on the 1st page.
To be most efficient in these ships, focus on 1 aspect/build and make sure its done well.
The defiant has so many excess tac slots that you can do a ton of different things, but that usually means diminished returns due to lack of buffs for each of those, or lack of survivability due to lack of eng and sci boff abilities.
The bug can run dual Aux2batt at the sacrifice of any sci abilities. It can outmaneuver the defiant, it can pour all its energy into its weapon systems and out DPS a defiant, and it has better stats than the defiant in terms of defense and survivability.
This is partially due to the ship itself, but mostly due to the boff layout. but even then, i dont see the bug ship as having an efficient layout. as I posted, more than a cmdr. tac is a waste of boff space.
Torp: APB3, TS3, THY2, TT1
Beam: APB3, BFAW3, BO2, TT1
cannon: APB3, CSV2, CRF1, TT1
The only setup that could benefit from another tac is a torp/mine combo...
lt. tac: mine pattern x, TT1
Chain APO and APB tbh. one lowers resists, the other increases damage along with all the other wonderful things it does.
15 percent damage increase is nothing to sniff at and they alternate on shared CD.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If all you care about is DPS, then a fleet assault cruiser running a2b is better than a bug ship.
Your premise is faulty.
This is also exclusively for PvE I assume, because speed, defence and versatility are far better in PvP and the comparison between these two ships isn't even close.
Kirk's Protege.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
After have seen a charal[1] delivering 26k dps, I wonder if any cruiser can have the time to move before the escort have done its job.
[1] and I think that even if the bug hasn't 5 front dhcs, it can still have a similar dps.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Cept the ship has been in the game since long before LOR..
That ensign tac is effin frustrating.. redundant is the better word.
And I just realized that they make you buy the defiant and the fleet retrofit now to get cloak. Greedy **** right there.
*edit* when I bought my fleet retrofit tac escort cloak came with it. (Before LOR)
The Defiant Retrofit (T5) always came with Cloak, the Defiant Refit (T4) never came with cloak but did come with Quad Cannons. The Fleet Defiant never came with cloak but owning the Retrofit gave a discount.
There are 4 Defiant Class ships in the game. The standard T4, the Refit T4, The T5 with cloak and the T5 Fleet.
When I say Defiant I mean Tactical Escort.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I don't own the cstore one only the t3 one yet I have cloak..?