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Elachi Subspace Torpedo should be buffed
icepiraka
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Not sure exactly where to put this, so I think I'll post it here.
And yes, I know, of all the things to say about this Lockbox and balance...
But seriously, I find the Elachi Torpedo rather lacking. In terms of a torpedo which is designed to be disabling, I think it's outperformed by tricobalts, and that shouldn't be the case.
Comparing the two, the Elachi Torp has a 10.5s cooldown, and a 10% chance for a base 2s disable. Tricobalts, on the other hand, have a 30.5s cooldown, and a 100% chance for a base 1.7s disable.
Now consider the following scenarios where you continuously fire either torp at a target for, say, 1281s (a little over 20 mins). Say the target is a transwarp gate, so it does not resist your attacks, and your torps always hit.
After 1281s, the tricobalt fired 42 times, the Elachi fired 122 times.
The trico procs a 1.7s disable on every hit, so the gateway is disabled for a total of 42 * 1.7 = 71.4 seconds (a little over a minute, and about 5% of the total combat time).
The Elachi, on the other hand, only procs 10% of the time, so on average it procced 12 times. Thus it disables the gateway for a total of 12 * 2 = 24 seconds (half a minute, a tiny 2% of the total combat time).
So far I've ignored the case where the torps are upgraded by TS or HY. I haven't completely looked at the TS case, but reading off of my tooltips (not the base numbers mind you), I get this: an Elachi HY gives 20K damage and a guaranteed 3s disable. A tricobalt HY gives about 29k damage and a guaranteed disable anywhere between 3s - 9s (average 6s, twice what the Elachi does).
Looking at these numbers, the stock tricobalt seems to be outperforming the Elachi torp a great deal. Given the cost of investment of the Elachi torp, the opposite should be true; the Elachi should be the superior disabling torpedo.
What I was considering was something like this: for the base Elachi torpedo, increase the proc chance to 33% (this is in line with the stock Chroniton proc chance) and the base disable up to 2.3s. So in the above scenario, the torpedo would have procced about 40 times, disabling the target for a total of 40 * 2.3 = 92s (compared to the tricobalt's 71.4s).
For the Torpedo Spread variant, I'm guessing it should be a guaranteed disable, but only for a reduced time, about 1.5s (similar to how a Chroniton behaves). For HY torps, perhaps the disable should be an average 7ish seconds, + or - 7ish seconds (so varying randomly between 1s and 15s).
Of couse, in the name of balance, I'd say (if it's not true already) that the Elachi disable should be resisted by Subsyst. Repair, cleansed by Engineering team, etc. Also, it probably also shouldn't be upgraded by the Nadeon Detonator console (as of now it does, and the disables stack).
Feel free to dispute me if my numbers are off or you disagree. Yes I know, I ignored PW doffs, and that a true torp boat could churn out more Elachi torps. But the same is true of tricobalts, AND you could do double disable duty with 1 fore 1 back, etc.
And yes, I know, of all the things to say about this Lockbox and balance...
But seriously, I find the Elachi Torpedo rather lacking. In terms of a torpedo which is designed to be disabling, I think it's outperformed by tricobalts, and that shouldn't be the case.
Comparing the two, the Elachi Torp has a 10.5s cooldown, and a 10% chance for a base 2s disable. Tricobalts, on the other hand, have a 30.5s cooldown, and a 100% chance for a base 1.7s disable.
Now consider the following scenarios where you continuously fire either torp at a target for, say, 1281s (a little over 20 mins). Say the target is a transwarp gate, so it does not resist your attacks, and your torps always hit.
After 1281s, the tricobalt fired 42 times, the Elachi fired 122 times.
The trico procs a 1.7s disable on every hit, so the gateway is disabled for a total of 42 * 1.7 = 71.4 seconds (a little over a minute, and about 5% of the total combat time).
The Elachi, on the other hand, only procs 10% of the time, so on average it procced 12 times. Thus it disables the gateway for a total of 12 * 2 = 24 seconds (half a minute, a tiny 2% of the total combat time).
So far I've ignored the case where the torps are upgraded by TS or HY. I haven't completely looked at the TS case, but reading off of my tooltips (not the base numbers mind you), I get this: an Elachi HY gives 20K damage and a guaranteed 3s disable. A tricobalt HY gives about 29k damage and a guaranteed disable anywhere between 3s - 9s (average 6s, twice what the Elachi does).
Looking at these numbers, the stock tricobalt seems to be outperforming the Elachi torp a great deal. Given the cost of investment of the Elachi torp, the opposite should be true; the Elachi should be the superior disabling torpedo.
What I was considering was something like this: for the base Elachi torpedo, increase the proc chance to 33% (this is in line with the stock Chroniton proc chance) and the base disable up to 2.3s. So in the above scenario, the torpedo would have procced about 40 times, disabling the target for a total of 40 * 2.3 = 92s (compared to the tricobalt's 71.4s).
For the Torpedo Spread variant, I'm guessing it should be a guaranteed disable, but only for a reduced time, about 1.5s (similar to how a Chroniton behaves). For HY torps, perhaps the disable should be an average 7ish seconds, + or - 7ish seconds (so varying randomly between 1s and 15s).
Of couse, in the name of balance, I'd say (if it's not true already) that the Elachi disable should be resisted by Subsyst. Repair, cleansed by Engineering team, etc. Also, it probably also shouldn't be upgraded by the Nadeon Detonator console (as of now it does, and the disables stack).
Feel free to dispute me if my numbers are off or you disagree. Yes I know, I ignored PW doffs, and that a true torp boat could churn out more Elachi torps. But the same is true of tricobalts, AND you could do double disable duty with 1 fore 1 back, etc.
Post edited by icepiraka on
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Comments
The canon looked bad compared to my dual heavies and I knew the torp would be bad as I am using all plasma based torps.
so now I see that it both canon and torp are weak and the 2p isn't worth the effort.
I wasn't a big fan of the console either but I could squeeze it in to satisfy the 2p. I'm rather disappointed.
Oh, and the fact the canon doesn't have a disrupter proc annoys the TRIBBLE outta me.
I thank you man, saved me a great deal of lobi
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
The crit severity is always nice but integrity and subspace(i think it was subspace) boosts are not not wanted or needed. To use the console for the 2p is a great idea, to use the console just for the console is I'll advised.
I can see the canon and console being because 8% to disrupter damage may be worth it if every weapon firing is disrupter
Taking the damage or dps of the canon and the damage or dps of a dual heavy canon, finding out the difference and then apply 8% to all weapons and find out if a which is the bigger number...
The calculation needs to be assumed all canons fired at 125 energy...and that the 8% acts like other buffs that do similar things(and I believe virusdancer found out the energy buffs from consoles acts like a console, 8% of base damage)
I think the dhc will out perform the 8% 2p
Either way, I'm with ya on your suggestion for the torp but the canon needs a bit of a boost too
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Eh, it really depends. Subspace Decompiler and Structural Integrity just happen to fit my build's needs exactly, but you obviously don't need those. On the other hand, you need the 2pc disruptor boost, but not the console itself. What works for one may not work for another.
Umm I hate to burst your bubble but Romulan Plasma's do Plasma damage...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
(related question, what speed does the HY torp travel?).
Peacekeeper High Command
Scorpius - Zelbinion Mk II
Ahh...well that is probably part of the reason why it doesn't stun at a high percentage...sure a TC can stun on hit every time but you never know if that TC you launched will ever hit.
I would say might have a better chance of the stun time increased than the proc chance.
You could say the same about the Elachi torp. Sure it's not targetable , but it also, IIRC, has no [acc] modifiers, so it's not "guaranteed" to hit either; it can miss just as fantastically as a Hargh'peng can against high defense targets (And heck, I'd even say the Hargh'peng is superior to this torp).
I should point out that that 10% chance for 2 sec base stun hardly does anything to NPCs, in my opinion, and I'd imagine it would do even less against a player specced into subsystem repair. There's a difference between not doing too much and not doing much of anything, and I find this torp is doing the latter.
It's supposed to be, yes (but IMO sometimes it doesn't happen). But the same is true of tricobalts, and their stun is much more. Also, they HY travels about as fast as the Romulan plasma, so about as slow as torps get.
I'd also like to compare a HY of this torp to a HY Temporal Disruption Device (a torp of equal lobi price). My HY Elachi does about 3s of disable (less against other players), where the TDD does 3.5-10.5s of movement reduction, recharge time slow, and regeneration slow. It seems obvious to me which one is falling short of the other.
On a side note... When I first heard of the addition of a subspace torpedo, I had visions of firing a high yield at enemies and seeing a subspace tear forming on impact and then chasing after them... I guess I can always dream.
Exactly! This torp needs to create some sort of anomaly with a special function (including a disable) like the Tricobalt and Temporal torpedoes.