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Dev clarification needed on Donatra's cloak behavior
timelord79
Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
AT the moment the player base seems to be split on how Donatra is suppoded to behave and actually behaving.
For the longest time she was always cloaking very fast when her target got closer to her than 5km.
Then some day this was patched out apparently, but lately I imagine that she is again (or still) cloaking when her target gets too close.
That is particularly fun when her target is convinced that his distance doesn't effect her behavior. Last match I did the other day she was cloaking like mad and I always spotted her target way closer then 5km when she did.
Am I mistaking correlation with causation here?
What is her intented behavior, what is actually supposed to trigger her cloak if anything outside a random die roll?
Edit: The same question for any Scimitar boss like the Fleet Alert where that behavior can destroy any victory chances, because the ship wins by hiding.
For the longest time she was always cloaking very fast when her target got closer to her than 5km.
Then some day this was patched out apparently, but lately I imagine that she is again (or still) cloaking when her target gets too close.
That is particularly fun when her target is convinced that his distance doesn't effect her behavior. Last match I did the other day she was cloaking like mad and I always spotted her target way closer then 5km when she did.
Am I mistaking correlation with causation here?
What is her intented behavior, what is actually supposed to trigger her cloak if anything outside a random die roll?
Edit: The same question for any Scimitar boss like the Fleet Alert where that behavior can destroy any victory chances, because the ship wins by hiding.
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I think in knowing the answer it removes the random, apparent AI choice, in when she cloaks.
I want to be fighting an intelligent opponent. The cloak and repositioning is a very big weapon to have, I would certainly utilise it more than Donatra does!
Although I like to beat the thing as quickly as I can but if I know all the exploits and weaknesses it losses the challenge. I like the fact the rules defining her cloak are a bit of a mystery to some, just means we have to work harder to beat her.
Saying all that however, I would only relate this post to STF's. I haven't done the fleet alert mentioned so I can not comment there.
What gets me is that they still haven't made this clear. She shouldn't just cloak for the heck oif it we need to see a clear pattern to prepare. It makes no sense otherwise. And yes it is necessary to know what to expect that's how dungeon bosses have been made for years now and they are highly popular when they are made that way so people can plan ahead.
This pretty much falls in line with what I've experienced most times when playing. The matches where her target stays at least 5k away tend to go faster, with her cloaking much less often.
Timelord, I might have been in that same match. I had the exact same experience. Darn Klingons, why you so silly?
Firstly, as long as she is in Combat, it is guaranteed that she will eventually Cloak, no matter how far away from her you stay.
It is true that this behavior occurs more frequently if you get within a certain distance from her. It is also true, however, that getting close to her is not an instant 100% guarantee that she will suddenly Cloak.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. A Boss Encounter requires a schtick - a powerful attack or ability that can only be countered by players if they know how to properly counter it, and pay attention to the fight. There are very few Boss Encounters in the MMO gaming world where anticipation or prevention are considered valid counters - reaction is nearly always required.
In the case of Donatra, her schtick is the Cloak+Thalaron maneuver. But honestly, the counter to it is fairly simple - keeping maneuvering abilities in reserve, and reacting to her charge-up when she decloaks, after you've examined her firing arc. The charge-up time on this blast is 12seconds -- the challenge of the fight is learning to move out of the clearly-marked 90-degree firing arc of this weapon, before it goes off. If you cannot do so within this 12 second window, keep practicing. You shouldn't need more time than that.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Except, of course, when she comes out of cloak and immediately fires the Thalaron weapon. But I'm going to assume that's a bug.
It IS a bug, right?
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I have never encountered this myself however
If that is actually happening, yes it's a bug.
I've investigated this claim in the past, and never been able to reproduce it. It's logically impossible, unless she's actually skipping a step in her AI logic chain. Which should never be possible. The exit condition to the "Fire Thalaron" step requires the successful completion of the "Face Target and Decloak" step. If she doesn't do one, she should be incapable of doing the other.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I've never seen that happen, either.
I would agree if our powers worked the way they are suppose to. For example, targets held in a Tractor Beam cannot cloak...except for Donatra.
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This may help your testing. It doesn't happen often. When I have witnessed it there was a disruption to her cycle. She was forced out of a cloak early etc. Its like the thaloron initiated but didn't fire till the next successfull cloak. But I have only seen it fewer than 5-10 times total.
So basically, apart from a few othre more ambiguous factors that influence her cloaking plus probably a dice roll distance modifies her behavior which is enough to allow a bit more control over the battle.
Can you check if the frequent cloaking of Romulan dreadnaught bosses in Fleet Alert are working as intended as it really sometimes makes completion of that encounter impossible because the thing stays in hiding for so long.
I can second this - it seems like it happens when she is forced out of cloak, or when you beat her cloak with your sensors skill. I feel like if I am chasing her when she has FOMM or AP:B/D stealth debuffs on her, getting close enough to detect her and open fire starts her Thalaron cycle, even if she is still cloaked versus the rest of the team, or something.
So when it does happen (rarely, granted) should we stop and open a bug ticket? Will you see a log of what just happened?
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
When I've seen it what usually happened is Cloak -> Decloak -> Immediately fire Thaleron (causing damage) -> Charge up Thaleron -> Fire Thaleron again.
I've not seen any pattern to the malfunctions unfortunately, and I've not run STFs for a while in any case, so I don't know if it's still happening.
That has most assuredly happened to me. I've only noticed it in the past month or so. Then again, I've only really resumed running STFs in the last month or so.
What seems to happen is that the thalaron pulse fires 2-3 seconds after she decloaks, but the charging sequence continues and she additionally fires at the 12 second mark. It generally goes like this: Donatra decloaks at close range (3-5 km), I immediately begin to maneuver away, and my ship suddenly explodes with no warning whatsoever. The swiftness of my untimely demise is consistent with being hit by the thalaron pulse.
A few more details -- it's only ever happened with my tac character who is flying the veteran ship (more than nimble enough to evade the thalaron pulse within 12 seconds), and the blast generally takes at least another player out with me. This has happened to me at least twice. I'm confident that I can reproduce it, and I will file a bug report at that time. If I can reproduce it consistently, I will take some video for you.
I've seen it happen very very rarely. It seems to happen if she cloaks, uncloaks, then cloaks again right away without firing the thalaron weapon, but then again not always.
It happens, it happened to another player the second to the last time I was in there. She doesn't do it every event however. She stays cloaked long enough to get into position and before her cloak effect wears off the blast occurs instantly. There's something wrong with when her special attack begins and when her cloak starts to end.
Between that and her tendency to heal while cloaked when this change was made is why so many of us decided to simply avoid this boss at all costs which slowed down our omega rep.
Borticus I've had this happen to be a few times as well. But the issue may not e Donatra's AI behavior. When it's happened to be, the Thalaron Damage pulse animation happebds (with resultting damage) happens the power up animation is still playing. So it may be an issue with the Tharlon Pulse animation sequence/timing.
Another problem with her cloak is that it ignores cloak disabling abilities, like tractor beam.
experienced it too some times
Donatra cloaks.. okay, let's wait for her to pop out. And taunt her.
*after a few taunts, Donatra decloaks and the entire team is wiped out instantly*
Reason for this: SHE FIRED OFF THREE THALARON PULSE SHOTS IN RAPID SUCCESSION
In the back of my head, I heard Q yell, "DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!"
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Believe me Bort, this does happen from time to time. Not very often, but it does happen. When it happens it is as others have described, she decloaks, begins her sequence and 3 seconds later PEW. The charge up sequence carries on as if she didn't fire and then fires again when she should have.
What asardetemplari described also happens, but much less often. As it happens, it did occur in an instance of KASE that I ran with fleet mates just this afternoon. 3 blasts in quick succession after the 3 second mark, then a normal blast at the end of the sequence.
One last thing bort, donatra seems to have this uncanny ability to nuke you with her murder-cone o' lethal death even though you are well outside of the cone. I've also seen people close behind or beside her killed by her blast, which I don't think is intended! Is there any chance the size of the visible cone could be looked at and adjusted if needed?
I've seen it happen inconsistently, it happens so rarely I wouldn't even bother bug hunting.
Pretty sure it only happens when players break the AI chain
I've had this happen two or 3 times. She'll uncloak, you'll see & hear the charge cone/sound for approximately 1-2 seconds, then your ship vaporizes, and you're left going, "HUH?"
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I too have seen charge up times being skipped as well.
Also one time I had just finished prepping the buffs for my Thalaron while cloaked and then pressed both cloak and Thalaron buttons to decloak and fire when the Thalaron fired around the time the decloak anim finished and my ship was solid again. The charge up time finished and there was no Thalaron fire but the target was taking rad damage so i figured it was a lag thing but now I'm not so sure.
It's never happened again so I don't know how it happened in the first place. The decloak and Thalaron is my standard MO for that weapon. If it's good for Donatra it's good for me.
My Fed has been hit by the rapid Thalaron attack but never my Rom.
As an aside, is Donatra deliberately targeting Scimitars? I'm usually the target of her Thalaron attack even it shows that she's targeted on someone else. She comes out of cloak and charging her Thalaron and it's centered on my Scimitar. Just curious. My fleet mates have learned to stay away from me when she cloaks. :P