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Elite Fleet Shields vs MACO
o1derfull1
Member Posts: 294
I've been accumulating currency and waiting to buy up all the nice shineys at once, after I had enough. Well, I'm finally there, and stumped. And at the risk of asking for legitimate advice on the internet, I put it to you:
Elite Fleet Shields or MACO mkii, and why
And before all the old vets show up with their depends, let me clarify:
Fed Tac Captain, in Fleet MVAE - not a strike and fade gunner, I tend to stay in the thick of it.
Doing mostly PvE pugs of SB24, Gorn Minefield, Fleet Alert, and the odd ISE/CSE.
I want a resil shield, I like the lower bleedthrough, I'm not interested in [Cap] is king.
I already have the MACO deflector, and haven't decided on engines yet. I am disinterested in the set bonus for MACO. I wouldn't turn it down if the MACO shields are the superior shield, but I'm not going to go with a less useful/effective shield just to get +5% Power Recharge Speed and +15.2 Starship Power Insulators.
Part of the reason for my consternation is I can't pick my engines, either. I like the +3.8 subsystem pwr of the Elite Fleet and Adapted MACO engines, but I also am used to the 25% thrusters on disable of the MACO ones. Now the Adapted MACO has a hot restart on disable, which sounds very handy, but that would mean I don't get the ansync warp of the Fleet/MACO engines (which doesn't help combat, I know, but I would just like the boost to space travel as I have no points in driver coil).
The reason engine choice is relevant to me is that I'm ok giving up the +3.8 subsystem pwr on my engines if I'm getting that pwr boost from the MACO shields. Which would leave me free to get the async warp and 25% thrusters from the MACO engines and I get a 3 pc set bonus, problem solved - However, I don't want to pick the MACO shields just for the boost to subsystem pwr if they are less effective shields than the elite fleet. I look at the subsystem pwr as a nice bonus, but the primary purpose of shields are to mitigate damage, so I want the shields that will do that the best.
I hear people typing now, just get the plasmonic leech and forget about subsystem pwr boosts from engines or shields. I would, but I am loathe to give up yet another console slot, as I would lose either my last armor console, or my shield regen console. I already am running the MVAE module, Assimilated Module, and the Zero-Point Rom module.
So all that being said I am going to go get into my flame-retardant hazmat suit, and await the feedback.
Thanks all for your time.
Elite Fleet Shields or MACO mkii, and why
And before all the old vets show up with their depends, let me clarify:
Fed Tac Captain, in Fleet MVAE - not a strike and fade gunner, I tend to stay in the thick of it.
Doing mostly PvE pugs of SB24, Gorn Minefield, Fleet Alert, and the odd ISE/CSE.
I want a resil shield, I like the lower bleedthrough, I'm not interested in [Cap] is king.
I already have the MACO deflector, and haven't decided on engines yet. I am disinterested in the set bonus for MACO. I wouldn't turn it down if the MACO shields are the superior shield, but I'm not going to go with a less useful/effective shield just to get +5% Power Recharge Speed and +15.2 Starship Power Insulators.
Part of the reason for my consternation is I can't pick my engines, either. I like the +3.8 subsystem pwr of the Elite Fleet and Adapted MACO engines, but I also am used to the 25% thrusters on disable of the MACO ones. Now the Adapted MACO has a hot restart on disable, which sounds very handy, but that would mean I don't get the ansync warp of the Fleet/MACO engines (which doesn't help combat, I know, but I would just like the boost to space travel as I have no points in driver coil).
The reason engine choice is relevant to me is that I'm ok giving up the +3.8 subsystem pwr on my engines if I'm getting that pwr boost from the MACO shields. Which would leave me free to get the async warp and 25% thrusters from the MACO engines and I get a 3 pc set bonus, problem solved - However, I don't want to pick the MACO shields just for the boost to subsystem pwr if they are less effective shields than the elite fleet. I look at the subsystem pwr as a nice bonus, but the primary purpose of shields are to mitigate damage, so I want the shields that will do that the best.
I hear people typing now, just get the plasmonic leech and forget about subsystem pwr boosts from engines or shields. I would, but I am loathe to give up yet another console slot, as I would lose either my last armor console, or my shield regen console. I already am running the MVAE module, Assimilated Module, and the Zero-Point Rom module.
So all that being said I am going to go get into my flame-retardant hazmat suit, and await the feedback.
Thanks all for your time.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Post edited by o1derfull1 on
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Comments
Get rid of the shield regen console....its useless
and get the leech
As far as shields, i would have to say Elite Fleet. MACO is good too, but the adaptive abilities of the fleet shield come in handy.
Im opposite of you when it comes to sets, I do not break up sets at all. Its either full MACO or BORG or whatever..or nothing. I cant stand to see mixed matched parts on my ship.
In the end you are debating between the top two shield options, both are amazing but I personally really prefer the extra utility maco provides especially since in PvE the extra resistance of the fleet shield isn't really needed to survive especially if you are rocking EPtS and over 100 shield power at all times.
False, you passively regenerate more shield strength than you actively heal in the majority of PvE encounters especially with a high shield power level.
Sorry but leech is over-rated if you ask me, and Maco shield (standard) is highly under-rated on these boards. For PvE atleast.
As far as engines... I am a proponent of using the Borg engines and deflector, the proc and its stats will help you stay alive as well as having great synergy with the MVAM's more scienc-y boff layout.
You are incorrect. Shield regen consoles are useless, regen was nerfed big time. the leech with 6 points into flow cap will give him much more shield power and passive regen anyways along with bonus to ALL other power levels...its worth taking that useless regen console off and replacing it with the leech.
Do not post if you have no clue what you are talking about, k?
Mix matching sets is useless, they nerfed the benefit of that practice along time ago. Either use the full set or nothing of the set.
Time for work, so I will not be able to read any replies. Good day OP
That being said, elite fleet shields are just as strong, and you pick up the stacking energy resistance.
I guess the better question is if you go MACO shields, will you get the MACO engine for the 3 piece bonus (graviton beam can actually be useful)? If you go Elite Fleet shields, what will you go w/ on deflector and engine?
When was shield regen nerfed, please cite source. As for shield regen console it is not optimal but nor is it useless as it's bonus is increased as shield power also increases. Finally leech is not at all useful when one runs a maco shield to begin with which also conveniently provides more than enough survivability for any PvE content in this game.
Ok now I know you are full of it and you should follow your own advice.
Mixing sets is not, nor has it ever been, useless. 2pc Borg set gives you a massive survivability increase thanks to it's 2 pc bonus. The Maco 2pc even grants a modest DPS increase thanks to it's 5% cooldown reduction translating to a 3.3% attack speed increase to cannon weapons. You have simply hung around the PvP forums a bit too much and are simply repeating things you have read in the past without any knowledge of the reasons behind the advice given I would wager. Good day.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
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Also, while you didn't mention it, the Adapted MACO shield is also quite solid. Yeah it isn't resilient and you mentioned you don't care much about that high cap, but the sensor-jamming ability is quite nice (they can't hurt what they can't see), and the 2-piece with your engines would boost your aux power and torpedo damage besides.
I see the benefit of the assimilated borg 2 pc set bonus, I do, I just don't like any of the individual pieces to get me there. Why would I take a deflector that gives +26 to SIF but otherwise no other bonuses that I really rely on as a tac? I much prefer the MACO deflector which gives the same 26 to SIF but also 17.5 to Shield heals, and HP. Also, the engines, while giving you a nice boost to sector travel speeds, seem far less combat-useful, other than providing a +5 engine pwr. The fleet/Adapted MACO give you subsystem pwr bonuses (not just engines), and the MACO/Adapted MACO also help when your engines get disabled.
So yes, i'd like that nifty 2 pc bonus from the borg set, but I feel that I'd have to pick inferior pieces to get there. Please, correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment of the relative strength of graviton generators and inertial dampeners vs Shield Healing and HP.
I have no points in flow cap. But, even with 0 points, I'd still get, what, +8 pwr to all subsystems?
I can't see that this is true at all. I've not tried it, but from what I've ready the 3 pc MACO ability hits for less than a HY torp, and its got a 2 min CD. I am not going to sacrifice a deflector/engine/shield that is well suited to my build and playstyle to acquire a lackluster set ability.
If I go with MACO shields (a big if at the moment) I'd probably get the other 2 MACO pieces, not for any desire to get the set, but because I think the MACO deflector is the best one for my Tac as it gives lots of passive survivability with + SIF/Sheilds. And I'd pick up the MACO engines, as they give the 25% thrusters on disable, and the async warp, and since I'm getting + subsys pwr from the MACO sheilds, I wouldn't feel compelled to pick up a +subsys pwr boost from my engines like the Fleet/Adapted MACO.
Thank you for your cogent thoughts. Am I to gather from your posts that MACO shields are perfectly viable, and to do what I want with my engines cause it doesn't matter?
Basically I have the MACO Deflector already and my options now are:
MACO engines + MACO sheilds (25% thrusters, dmg mitigation for all types, + subsys pwr boost)
MACO engines + Elitie Sheilds + leech (same as above, but more mitigation, no sci consoles)
Adapt MACO engines +Elite Sheilds with or w/o leech? (pwr boost not scale w/o leeach but with leech mich be overkill on the pwr boost, Hot restart, more dmg mitigation)
Adapt MACO engines + MACO sheilds (no leech, extra pwr boost, less mitigation, hot restart)
Plus whatever benefit I get for the 5% power recharge of the 2pc MACO. (I assume a minor dps increase from my cannons getting back up to full power quicker or somesuch?)
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Ok, after the whole first page I'll come back to the original question:
Your question was: "which shield is better?", but the whole post sounds like you don't know which deflector, engines and shields you should take.
You said that you like the low bleedthrough, that's ok, but if you want the best protection, then you need capacity or regeneration. Going for a low Bleedthrough and loosing regeneration and capacity to protect your hull (that is also reinforced by the Armor-Console) sounds like a bad idea.
Depending on the Boff-Abilities you could go for:
-The Borg-Set has a regenerative shield and amazing healing bonuses, it also gives you the assimilated tractor beam. It's the first choice, if you've got only a little Hazard Emitter to get rid of Plasma-Fires. Each part of the set gives you also some Bonus-Power (Deflector +5 to Aux, Engines +5 to Engines and Shields +5 to Shields).
The Borg-Engine is also the fastest Engine in Sector-Space.
-The adapted MACO-Set has got the highest capacity available, using it combined with reverse shieldpolarity would let you survive a lot of burst-damage. Its engines grant the same powerboost to subsystems, that the Elite-Fleet give you. The other set-bonuses would give you also a lot more (projectile-damage, usually more crew alive -> increased passive hull regeneration).
Since the MVAE has got only a Lieutenant Engineering and a Lieutenant-Commander Science, you have got only limited healing abilities. So, tell us a little about your Boff-Layout, then you can expect further suggestions.
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
For most PVE encounters, either MACO or Elite Fleet Shields are fine.
For combat situations with large amounts of incoming weapon fire (e.g., SB24), Elite Resilient Fleet Shields will serve you better because they can stack up to 20% total energy resistance (or +35% if using group-A/B shields). MACO only gets a flat 10% base energy resistance except for plasma, where it receives +25% total resists. As a result, MACO is ideal when running Elite STF's, but ultimately Elite Fleet shields can stack much higher total resists in sustained combat.
go for dmg
You are correct in your assessment, I'm having difficulty picking all 3 pieces, but I believe shields to be the most critical component of the 3, and if I can decide which of those to choose, it should be easier to pick the deflector/engines.
I understand different people swear by Cap or Regen for sheilds, but I find, in my escort, with limited hull heals, and a lower amount of hul hitpoints, that a resilient shield suits me and my play style better.
That said, as far as boff abilities are concerned:
My shields right now, are very rare Resil mkxi cap/dis/pla, and I have little difficulty in keeping them up, usually. I run EPtSx2 on a cycle to I have nearly 100% up time on the damage mitigation, and a nice little regen every 30 seconds. My hull, comparitively, is much weaker, and when I tried a covariant shield I found myself looking to hit hazard emitters more often than it was off cooldown. My sci abilities are Polarize hull I, Hazard emitters II, and gravity well.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
In a word, yes.
As for engines I highly recommend testing them on tribble as finding out their speed and turn modifiers can be difficult on holodeck but I would recomend either maco or fleet for the speed or alternatively the new Nukara engines may be good for the +shield power or the romulan/reman engines have really good skill boosts and you can always keep your 'travel engine' on your shuttle to swap out for those long distance travels.
Lastly while the 3pc maco ability is not amazing it does lower target resistance and is atleast semi-useful.
I dont get it. The individual pieces dont seem all that good. Are you picking the 2 pc Borg for the set bonus?
For the engines I'd rather have the bonus to multiple subsys pwr and some help on engine disable that Fleet/Adapted MACO give, rather than just +5 eng/fast sector travel of the Borg engines.
For the deflector I dont see how +5 Aux, 26 SIF, and 17.5 Dampers, Grav Generators, Pwr Insulators of the Borg set are better for a tac in an escort than say the 26 SIF and 17.5 Shield HP/Heals of the MACO deflector.
Is the 2pc bonus so OP that the sacrifice in the individual pieces are worth it?
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, 2x borg for set bonus, when i look at heal numbers in log parser, the borg bonus heal numbers are bigger then TSS/HE/ST.
MACO shield also good because of "Reduces All Energy Damage to Shields by 10%", so its good against spike damage.
The Adapted MACO engines are efficient engines. What that means is the subsystem power bonus it gives fluctuates depending on power levels. At x/25 or less power, they give you the full bonus. This bonus decreases all the way down to 0 at x/75 or more power.
Adapted MACO engines are only good if you plan on grabbing the set bonus.
For PVE: Any choice is as good as another. You can sport a non-rep, non-set shield proper to the situation and be good to go, i.e. Mk XII with Plasma Resist for an STF/ESTF.
For PVP: This is where it gets more complicated.
- For a ship that intends to stick into the middle of a fight, Elite Fleet Shields will work good. The ResA / ResB combined with Adaptive Resists makes for a very robust shield under sustained fire.
The real vulnerability of the Elite Fleet Shields is the energy weapon used against it that is NOT covered by the shield's ResA or ResB resists, and if it's coming out of an all out alpha strike, esp. one that utilizes Beam Overload 3. A sudden, quick, ultra violent burst of Spike Damage that is esp. not covered by ResA / ResB of the shield will rip it apart. A sudden, very short burst, esp. with Beam Overload does not give the Elite Fleet Shield's Adaptive Resists to build up the high resist % that comes with attacks repeatedly beating against it.
Simply put, a short, alpha strike is the very same idea of making one, strong, quick punch into someone before they can get their defenses up and ready.
That's the vulnerability of Elite Fleet Shields, IMO.
The advantage of a shield that has flat resists like MACO Resilient Shields and Jem'Hadar Resilient Shields is that they have generic, all-around resists to any energy weapon type. Sure, it will never be as high % against any attack that a fully resisted & proc'ed Elite Fleet Shield will have, but you will never have to worry if an energy type isn't covered either.
Another beauty of MACO Resilient is the subsystem power bonus under fire. You do not have to give up a console spot for Plasmonic Leech.
Again, other shields and Elite Fleet Shields have their place, but Elite Fleet Shields, as good as hey are, are not the end-all-be-all answer.
Hell, for a hit & run type of ship, I'd pick the KHG / Adapted MACO Shields any day of the week over Elite Fleet Shields.
Which is the dominate one?
Just sayin.
The shield is your choice.. but remember that the MACO shield has a higher capacity and resists plasma at 20% inherently. As a general rule of thumb, Elite Fleet stuff is aimed at the PvP market where as rep gear is based on the PvE market.
So in the end it comes back to you and your playstyle.
Is this true?I had no idea. I guess I could see that, though.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
MACO overrides the leech. See this thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=727921
At first, they thought it was a bug. But was later confirmed to be working as intended.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]