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Choose your high-end escort
amincielbleu
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
A new version of the table, Season 9 April 2014
Let me state this early, plainly and boldly : it is not necessary to own one of the ships listed here to experience the elite content of Star trek Online in an escort. The free Patrol Escort, Advanced Escort, Raider, Bird-of-Prey or Ha'feh warbird are sufficient and costless when your character reaches a high level. However, it's my aim to meet this axiom :
for each ship absent from this list, there is a ship in the list that can be considered as an improvement.
You will view or download the escort & destroyer table by clicking the following link :
escort & destroyer table
Legend
F.= fleet vessel ; TS = Tal Shiar ; HEC = Heavy Escort Carrier ; MV = multi-vectorial
All ships in the table have a tactical Commander, except the Birds-of-prey where the absence of tactical officers is coded "0" ; other codes for B.Offs are 3=Lt-Cmd ; 2=Lt ; 1=Ens.
Default number of tactical consoles is 4 ; "+" means 5 tac consoles ; "-" means 3 tac consoles. All ships in the table have 10 consoles except the Norgh as mentionned.
Hull values are rounded. Default shield modifiers are between 99% and 105% ; "+" means 110% ; "++" means 130% ; "-" means 90% or 88%.
The columns labeled "special" mention a unique trait of the vessel widely appreciated ("special +") or criticized ("special -"), although it might be unimportant for some of you. "6w" means 6 weapons (4 fore, 2 aft).
Methodology
The turn rate of an escort is above 14 except for the ships where it is mentionned as a drawback. Same reasoning for the impulse modifier and inertia rating.
The table includes no less than 20 ships, I had to make a difficult selection, according to the axiom stated at the beginning. Most of the content of the thread has become obsolete. I still admit a personal bias against the heavy tactical lines (7 tactical Boff abilities or more), Boff's would be better used in another department. If you look for exhabustivity, refer to the Wiki here, here , or here.
These three lists didn't help me much for my own choices. My own table aims at outlining the information in a much more concise and usable way.
A) You're an engineer and you want to tank in your escort (PvE only) ?
The good news is, it's feasible !
The Fleet Mogai, the Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier, the Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort and the Nicor Bio-Warship have the required hull values (34.5K or more) and BOff slots. A Lt-Com and a Lt engineer will enable you to slot a dual Aux2Batt build with Reverse Shield Polarity 2, so that you can withstand everything the PvE game content will throw at you ! The Hiro HHE looks like a JHEC without a hangar, so it is included on a provisional basis, in case a unique feature would be found.
You will also find a Lt-Cmd engineer, or two Lt engineers, on other ships in the list, but they cannot be considered as solid as the Mogai, the Hiro HHE or the JHEC. All ships can tank to some extent in Star Trek Online, and all escorts should do so, but some are definitely more durable than others.
You would just love a carrier but you want it nimble ?
The good news is, it's feasible !
The Fleet Ar'Kif, the Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier and the Fleet Armitage are there to satisfy you. The JHEC tends to be better than the Armitage, but it is also much more expensive.
C) You want a torpedo boat and a lot of science power to boot ?
I'm afraid I cannot give a clear advice if you're a Starfleet captain, but Romulans will enjoy the Fleet T'Varo and Klingons will enjoy the Fleet B'Rel. Their enhanced battle cloaks will let you fire torpedoes without loosing the full benefit of your battle cloak. Some science buffs or debuffs won't decloak you either. Lots of firepower, lots of fun in your own style !
D) Damage is what escorts are meant for !
Of course you like the look of a 5th tactical console... Of course a scientific Lt-Cmd will let you throw a gravity well in order to pack these juicy targets together for a magnificient scatter volley. Of course you want the cooldown of your Gravity Well and of your Attack Pattern Omega halved by a dual Aux2Batt build, and that implies two Lt engineers.
Three ships will give you exactly that : the Fleet Dhelan, the Plesh Brek and the Nicor Bio-Warship. The Nicor has the added bonus of a Lt-Cmd Engineer, which enables him to tank convincingly.
Nonetheless, a lot of other ships come close to meeting all the above requirements.
(a) without the 5th tactical console : S'Golth, TS adapted Destroyer, all three birds-of-prey, Chel Grett
(b) without the dual Aux2Batt : Fleet Advanced Escort
Some other ships don't fulfill several criteria (including the scientific Lt-Cmd slot) but exhibit specific redeeming features : Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, Fleet Defiant, Risan Corvette, Andorian escorts.
Even if you don't equip Boff powers with long cooldowns, you might want to keep two Lt engineers. In this case, a dual Aux2Batt build is probably inferior to a full cycle of Emergency Powers to Shields and to Weapons (just like an old-fashioned cruiser would do). The S'Golth 's extra ensign engineer (instead of a somewhat redundant tactical ensign slot on most ships) is certainly valuable from that viewpoint.
E) PvP !
Honestly, for PvP, everything will depend on your team. Who is in charge of which debuff(s), who is supporting you, what should you care for individually... The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is the most expensive ship in the game because it is still part of many PvP teams, even though cheaper and realistic alternatives exist for PvE.
Individual advices here may ring hollow. Ask your team !
So what - Synthesis
Game balance is guaranteed by the absence of the ultimate escort, with 5 fore weapons, 5 tactical consoles, a tactical Commander, 3+2 universal Boff slots, a hull of 35k and a pair of unique consoles with the same offensive potential as the Mogai's (...and a Hello Caitian sport bag, and a little sister). However, the Nicor Bio-Warship is scaringly versatile for damages and tanking.
The Jem'Hadar HEC stands out in the list as a frequently recommended ship. The Fleet Dhelan is a clear recommendation for the classical job of an escort, and it is also a very sturdy ship. Everybody can find a ship suited to his specific needs (tank, carrier, torpedo boat,...), but sometimes Romulans can find it at a lower cost.
Two words about the equipment will conclude. First, the new Spire tactical consoles will make the 5th tactical console all the more important. That leads to recommending the Fleet Advanced Escort for Federation captains and the Plesh Brek for KDF captains. Second, generally speaking, the unique consoles and powers are nothing more than funny toys, enjoyable for some time and then happily discarded in favour of performance, the Mogai-Valdore consoles being an exception to this observation. A C-store or Lobi ship should not be chosen mainly for the trinkets that come with it.
Cielbleu, member of Fleet Eclipse
Let me state this early, plainly and boldly : it is not necessary to own one of the ships listed here to experience the elite content of Star trek Online in an escort. The free Patrol Escort, Advanced Escort, Raider, Bird-of-Prey or Ha'feh warbird are sufficient and costless when your character reaches a high level. However, it's my aim to meet this axiom :
for each ship absent from this list, there is a ship in the list that can be considered as an improvement.
You will view or download the escort & destroyer table by clicking the following link :
escort & destroyer table
Legend
F.= fleet vessel ; TS = Tal Shiar ; HEC = Heavy Escort Carrier ; MV = multi-vectorial
All ships in the table have a tactical Commander, except the Birds-of-prey where the absence of tactical officers is coded "0" ; other codes for B.Offs are 3=Lt-Cmd ; 2=Lt ; 1=Ens.
Default number of tactical consoles is 4 ; "+" means 5 tac consoles ; "-" means 3 tac consoles. All ships in the table have 10 consoles except the Norgh as mentionned.
Hull values are rounded. Default shield modifiers are between 99% and 105% ; "+" means 110% ; "++" means 130% ; "-" means 90% or 88%.
The columns labeled "special" mention a unique trait of the vessel widely appreciated ("special +") or criticized ("special -"), although it might be unimportant for some of you. "6w" means 6 weapons (4 fore, 2 aft).
Methodology
The turn rate of an escort is above 14 except for the ships where it is mentionned as a drawback. Same reasoning for the impulse modifier and inertia rating.
The table includes no less than 20 ships, I had to make a difficult selection, according to the axiom stated at the beginning. Most of the content of the thread has become obsolete. I still admit a personal bias against the heavy tactical lines (7 tactical Boff abilities or more), Boff's would be better used in another department. If you look for exhabustivity, refer to the Wiki here, here , or here.
These three lists didn't help me much for my own choices. My own table aims at outlining the information in a much more concise and usable way.
A) You're an engineer and you want to tank in your escort (PvE only) ?
The good news is, it's feasible !
The Fleet Mogai, the Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier, the Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort and the Nicor Bio-Warship have the required hull values (34.5K or more) and BOff slots. A Lt-Com and a Lt engineer will enable you to slot a dual Aux2Batt build with Reverse Shield Polarity 2, so that you can withstand everything the PvE game content will throw at you ! The Hiro HHE looks like a JHEC without a hangar, so it is included on a provisional basis, in case a unique feature would be found.
You will also find a Lt-Cmd engineer, or two Lt engineers, on other ships in the list, but they cannot be considered as solid as the Mogai, the Hiro HHE or the JHEC. All ships can tank to some extent in Star Trek Online, and all escorts should do so, but some are definitely more durable than others.
You would just love a carrier but you want it nimble ?The good news is, it's feasible !
The Fleet Ar'Kif, the Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier and the Fleet Armitage are there to satisfy you. The JHEC tends to be better than the Armitage, but it is also much more expensive.
C) You want a torpedo boat and a lot of science power to boot ?
I'm afraid I cannot give a clear advice if you're a Starfleet captain, but Romulans will enjoy the Fleet T'Varo and Klingons will enjoy the Fleet B'Rel. Their enhanced battle cloaks will let you fire torpedoes without loosing the full benefit of your battle cloak. Some science buffs or debuffs won't decloak you either. Lots of firepower, lots of fun in your own style !
D) Damage is what escorts are meant for !
Of course you like the look of a 5th tactical console... Of course a scientific Lt-Cmd will let you throw a gravity well in order to pack these juicy targets together for a magnificient scatter volley. Of course you want the cooldown of your Gravity Well and of your Attack Pattern Omega halved by a dual Aux2Batt build, and that implies two Lt engineers.
Three ships will give you exactly that : the Fleet Dhelan, the Plesh Brek and the Nicor Bio-Warship. The Nicor has the added bonus of a Lt-Cmd Engineer, which enables him to tank convincingly.
Nonetheless, a lot of other ships come close to meeting all the above requirements.
(a) without the 5th tactical console : S'Golth, TS adapted Destroyer, all three birds-of-prey, Chel Grett
(b) without the dual Aux2Batt : Fleet Advanced Escort
Some other ships don't fulfill several criteria (including the scientific Lt-Cmd slot) but exhibit specific redeeming features : Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, Fleet Defiant, Risan Corvette, Andorian escorts.
Even if you don't equip Boff powers with long cooldowns, you might want to keep two Lt engineers. In this case, a dual Aux2Batt build is probably inferior to a full cycle of Emergency Powers to Shields and to Weapons (just like an old-fashioned cruiser would do). The S'Golth 's extra ensign engineer (instead of a somewhat redundant tactical ensign slot on most ships) is certainly valuable from that viewpoint.
E) PvP !
Honestly, for PvP, everything will depend on your team. Who is in charge of which debuff(s), who is supporting you, what should you care for individually... The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is the most expensive ship in the game because it is still part of many PvP teams, even though cheaper and realistic alternatives exist for PvE.
Individual advices here may ring hollow. Ask your team !
So what - Synthesis
Game balance is guaranteed by the absence of the ultimate escort, with 5 fore weapons, 5 tactical consoles, a tactical Commander, 3+2 universal Boff slots, a hull of 35k and a pair of unique consoles with the same offensive potential as the Mogai's (...and a Hello Caitian sport bag, and a little sister). However, the Nicor Bio-Warship is scaringly versatile for damages and tanking.
The Jem'Hadar HEC stands out in the list as a frequently recommended ship. The Fleet Dhelan is a clear recommendation for the classical job of an escort, and it is also a very sturdy ship. Everybody can find a ship suited to his specific needs (tank, carrier, torpedo boat,...), but sometimes Romulans can find it at a lower cost.
Two words about the equipment will conclude. First, the new Spire tactical consoles will make the 5th tactical console all the more important. That leads to recommending the Fleet Advanced Escort for Federation captains and the Plesh Brek for KDF captains. Second, generally speaking, the unique consoles and powers are nothing more than funny toys, enjoyable for some time and then happily discarded in favour of performance, the Mogai-Valdore consoles being an exception to this observation. A C-store or Lobi ship should not be chosen mainly for the trinkets that come with it.
Cielbleu, member of Fleet Eclipse
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by amincielbleu on
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Comments
An interesting discussion elsewhere on this site has prompted me to update my escort thread with a few considerations about flying an escort with a science captain. Firstly it is needed to establish what is lost by flying an escort instead of a science vessel. This is based on a comparison between the science captain abilities and the tactical captain abilities. Sorry if this sounds obvious to most of you, but you can skip to the final part if you are already convinced to a science captain on an escort is a viable and useful option provided that (a) auxilliary power is maintained at a high level and (b) the ship welcome several scientific bridge officers on board (a 3+2 science line is almost required).
1) Oh captain, my captain
Indeed, what kind of power is brought by a tactical captain to his own ship ? Fleet tactics is a group-wide ability ; it is important that someone uses it, but not necessarily the escort-flying captain. The same holds about Fire on My Mark. The true escort-specific powers brought by a tactical captain are Attack Pattern Alpha, Tactical Initiative and Go Down Fighting. To reap the full benefits of these abilities, the tactical captain must do a lot of damage himself (this usually means flying an escort, altough some cruisers are more than a match in special circumstances).
A science captain brings abilities that will benefit everyone in the group, except Scattering Field that benefits an AoE around himself (i.e. the usefulness of Photonic Fleet does not depend on whether you fly a science ship or an escort). Does this imply that flying a science vessel is better than flying an escort ? Really, no. It is important to maintain a high level of auxilliary power, but that can be done on an escort as well as on a science ship. Does this imply that the group would be better off if the science captain flying an escort were a tactical captain instead ? Not the least ! The presence of a science captain brings group-wide abilities to the group, it is important that there is one, but he need not be on board of a science vessel.
Notice that this argument doesn't rely on the bridge officers and their abilities at all, for a captain can make good use of all three classes of bridge officers. Only captain abilities actually matters. But remember that caring for auxilliary power means that you won't fly your escort in the same way with both kinds of captains !
2) Say "Which ships" three times quickly
Now you're a science captain, you fly an escort with high levels of auxilliary power, and you have every right to be there :cool: . Which ship can be most useful ? Of course a ship whose bridge officer slots can make full use of auxilliary power ! Gravity Well, Tractor Beam (repulsor or not), Tyken's Rift,... you need scientific Boff slots ! A lot of them !
Many options are available, especially to the Romulan captain. The T'Varo is probably the most exciting one, because of its enhanced battle cloak (you will be able to use a few scientific abilities while cloaked). The Dhelan, the Mobius/Krenn/R'mor, the S'Golth and the Tal Shiar Destroyer are fine too, the latter three being perhaps expensive but not out of reach. Klingon captains will of course enjoy a bird of prey, that is arguably a science vessel just as much as an escort... The Federation captain is slightly worse off here, since he has no alternative to an expensive destroyer (S'Golth, Mobius or Tal Shiar). Among these, my personal feelings favour the S'Golth, because the extra engineer ensign can be quite useful to feed emergency powers somewhere (with or without an an Aux2Bat perspective).
Some constraints bear on the choice of an escort for the science captain, but positive solutions remain !
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Blockade_Runner_Escort_Retrofit
It has in my opinion a nearly perfect boff layout for an escort either for a tac or an engineer, without sacrificing much elsewhere(I get the impressing you'd prefer 3/3/4 instead of 4/2/4n for the console config however.
Don't misunderstand me, it's a fine ship for 99% of the PvE and PvP content. Yet I'm afraid it won't take you very far in the no-win scenario and it won't compete on an equal footing with the Charal/Khyzon in a pure damage role. Again, it is more than sufficient for 99% of the game.
All this being said, there is a sufficient reason for flying it if you have access to it : it is a nice ship indeed !
Pure damage being one of the few(if not only) escorts to cycle EPTW2 has a nice bonus, i can't imagine a lt. sci would add much firepower anyway(most will use it for hazzards or TSS) at which point 2x EPTS+hazzard is a good healing cycle
As far as ease to acquire? it's a 25$ account wide fleet class ship, less if there's a steam sale and does not require you actually use the steam client to play STO certainly more obtainable than the chelgret(a ship i skipped personally as not different enough from the MVA)
Too much in my opinion.
What good is a comparision if you're excluding most escorts out there to begin with and don't even take into account the roles they're supposed to play and some of the other deciding factors (turn-rate, shield mod, hull, power-levels, bonus & singularity powers etc...)
Have you clicked on the table link ? I tried to make it as apparent as possible. Shields and hulls are in the table. Bonuses are discussed and the most relevant ones are mentioned in the table. Turn rate is high on all escorts and a low turn rate is mentioned as a drawback of the slowest destroyer. Power levels and singularity powers just split the table in two classes : Romulan and non-Romulan, which is apparent on the table.
I'm not discussing gear, builds or tuning, because it's not the purpose here. Similarly, I'm neither discussing inferior tier ships, dominated options nor classical choices (the "4+3" tactical line is sufficiently represented by the andorian and Jem'Hadar escorts). As the title says, it's a table of high-end escorts intended for the most difficult missions (Elite STF, no-win scenario,...).
As I commented elsewhere, there are other approaches to the choice of one's ship. The "fan approach" is certainly as valid for escorts as it is for cruisers or science vessels. Pick up an iconic ship (among Federation escorts, that would be the Fleet Defiant, for example), equip it with canonical weaponry, make it epic and have fun ! Nobody will be disappointed, it's sufficient to walk through 99% of the game with ease. It's just not the same approach to the choice of a ship.
Sorry I forgot to answer this point in my previous reply. I like the presence of 4 tactical consoles or more. How exactly the other consoles are apportioned is not a real concern, since most escorts fly with 2 universal consoles or more (the Borg console, and then sometimes the Romulan console, the Nukara console or Plasmonic Leech), and rely on a mix of engineering resistance console (often neutronium) and science defensive consoles (shield capacity or regen). So I feel that the console configuration 4/4/2, 4/3/3 and 4/2/4 are actually equivalent in current practice.
By the way, I'm now convinced that the Steam Boat should be added to the table, and that the advantage of two Lt engineers is not limited to cooldown management, something that must be corrected in the original post. Possibly, the Blockade Runner is dominated by the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and maybe the Charal (andorian escort) can reach a better performance while being less solid. Nonetheless, the Blockade Runner has a unique combination of a hull around 3.5k and a bridge configuration with 2 Lt Eng + 1 ens Sci (not sacrificing Hazard Emitter to the engineering needs). My opinion is that, on a "4+3" tactical line, some abilities are wasted and would be better used in another department, but this may only reflect a personal bias.
PS: correction added to the original post.
On one hand you're excluding ships (Fleet Patrol, Defiant) because they aren't special enough, which by the way isn't even correct. On the other hand you are excluding the whole KDF ship line because they are too special, which in most cases is again not correct. For me this sounds more like personal likes and dislikes.
Fleet Patrol escort doesn't come with a fancy C-Store console, but still its ensign universal, general boff layout and stats doesn't make it too shabby. The Fleet Defiant perfectly fits your 5 tac console criteria and its cloaking device (which is rare on the blue side) generates possibilities no other pure fed escort has.
The complete skip on KDF ships looks more like you just don't play KDF. Yes there are ships like the Birds of Prey, but there are also (Fleet) Raptors and (Fleet) Destroyers which aren't that different compared to feddie escorts. Those Nausicaan Destoyers don't even have a cloak...
So to sum it up, you either have to compare all available options with all important stats and really let people choose or it's just a "what I like best".
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
I have to agree. Having personally tried just about every escort in the game in "high-end" PvE and PvP throughout the past three years, I can say from experience that almost all of them are viable options with the right build; the hard part is figuring out that build. I have my personal preferences with the ships I command, but they all they are all great ships in their own way.
Keep in mind, the raw stats don't also show the whole story. Even if one ship has lower shields or hull, different boff seating, or less than 5 tac consoles, it will probably have something else to make up for that deficiency. Even the Risian Corvette can be a great ship to the point it can dogfight the toughest bugships.
This chart is a good place to start for new inexperienced captains looking for an escort where a generic setup can work, but it really fails to show the extent of the options and variety available to the rest of us who've traveled around the quadrant a few times.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
I agree with the comment about the Risan Corvette, and it is in the table. I've included the birds of prey, since a guildmate convinced me that universal Boff slots do not really preclude a comparison (you simply have to assign these Boff slots mentally instead of seeing them in the right colour). Plus, I don't want to be accused of anti-Klingon racism.
My position is simple : give one clear reason to include a ship, i.e. why it isn't dominated by some other option in the chart, and I'll include it gladly (as I did for the Steam Boat). All "4+3" escorts are of course viable ships, and some are truly iconic for Star Trek fans, but "game-wise" they happen to be dominated by the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship (hence the price of said ship) or the andorian escorts (affordable with no excessive investment in time or money). The argument given for the Fleet Defiant convinced me (and it's now in the table), but the Fleet Patrol, Klingon raptors and Scourge destroyer do not have any advantage that would make them special (at least in some circumstances) and undominated. For example, if a Klingon wants to fly a destroyer, I stick to the idea of directing him or her to the Krenn, the Tal Shiar destroyer or the Jem'Hadar HEC.
Compared with the Wiki, the table is pre-selecting a reasonable amount of ships and a limited number of characteristics and puts them together on a single sheet. It shouldn't be too broad (number of ships in columns) or too high (number of distinctive traits in lines). Too much information is no information at all. But again I'll be glad to take suggestions on other ships. I just don't believe that all escorts should be included because "no T5 escort is dominated"...
PS: Original post corrected, 4 more ships added, comments expanded to do justice to the Klingon ships.
It what now? Am I not understanding you correctly, because KDF also has access to NWS unless you're making some canon reference.
For that purpose, yes, your chart generally makes since, and the lt com sci option is huge (and more important than lt com eng in that environment imo).
No, it is not.
Technically they aren't even escorts but raiders. Again, what you are looking for and what your chart is missing at all are (Fleet) Raptors and (Fleet) Destroyers, which in general terms aren't that different to fed escorts. Maybe you should just note somewhere in your opening post that you are excluding KDF and you are done?!
See, this is your chart, so it's up to you what to include and what not. By this reasoning everything except the Attack Ship and Andorian Escort has to be taken out, but as you said not everybody has hundreds of millions of EC or wants to spend 2500/5000 Zen. Also, what you call dominated doesn't mean at all that you are automatically going to loose with a Fleet Patrol escort against a Charal for example. I get it, that your chart is mainly for new players which actually makes the whole situation worse. Seeing it from a new players perspective without the background knowledge, it tells me that only those ships you show are able to compete and that I need one of those ships if I'm not just going for the iconic Star Trek feeling.
A lot of new and also not so new players are still using the Hilbert Guide when getting started with escort. This guide still utilizes the (Fleet) Patrol Escort for its basic build, because beside being a good and cheap starter escort this ship offers a really good station setup which on itself is not really inferior and gets even better with the fleet versions ensign universal. The Defiant is one of 2 Federation ships with the possibility to cloak, which offers a totally different playstyle to all other pure fed escorts. Reading your chart without any background info a new player wouldn't even know that those two options exist just because you think they aren't capable.
Your way of highlighting pros and cons in this table is actually a nice and good idea. I give you that, but again your "reasonable" is your personal like list and your characteristics are just Boff stations, hull and shields (btw, why not shield modifier instead?). Where for example is their turn rate, which for escorts is quite important?
I wasn't trying to say you should write a whole new wiki entry with your chart
Of course there are escort considered an upgrade to others. Fleet Patrol -> Charal/JHAS is a good example, but this doesn't automatically makes them trash and not be flown at all. If we are really following this path everything except warbirds has to be scraped and all pure fed chars have to be mothballed
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
I start with a caveat and my definition of "a dominated ship" to justify my pre-selection. I refer to the Wiki for exhaustive lists and justify the need for concise information. Shields modifiers are included (good point, thanks in particular for that). I guess we will still diverge on the amount of relevant information (you would like to see more, I feel that there is already too much...) .
Now there are 18 ships in the table. Fleet raptors and the Fleet Scourge are still out ; I agree with you, they look like some Fed escorts that are left out too. I don't feel unfair by stating that a tactical captain will perform better in a Krenn or in a Hoh'SuS than in a Fleet Scourge (still a magnificent ship for the fans, no doubt). To substantiate this claim, I can point out at the no-win scenario where the difference will be felt ! I don't want to withdraw birds of prey from the table (and certainly not the Krenn eiher !) and claim that I'm not concerned with Klingon ships, because I really am
Please feel free to have a look and comment on the thread for tanks or on the thread for science vessels. I'm trying to draw on the lessons of this thread and to improve them.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
For fed I think the best pure high-end escort is the Kumari. Superb in STFs and obliterates normal PvE Content, moderate in NWS (I've seen people make it work, but lack of Gwell is problematic), Mediocre for PvP. Good ship but has its issues.
Patrol/Defiant are fine, but nothing special.
KDFs have slim pickings, I'd probably take a fleet raptor. No decent 5-tac console ships over there.
Kirk's Protege.
Kirk's Protege.
I don't mind less damage for the added accuracy I get from the console...as well as the free abilities.
The boff setup allows for a high dps using commander tac abilities as well as dual aux2batt and DEM2.
Turn rate is solid and hull is 37k.
Derrick - Fed Eng
I've included the Armitage and the Defiant for this very reason : they are the only ways for Federation captain to play an escort carrier or a cloaking escort at a reasonable cost (or at all). Therefore no ship can be considered a definite "improvement" over these two, even though the Defiant is outperformed by new Romulan ships, while the Armitage is inferior to the more expensive Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier. The two previous posts are praising the Armitage for its quality/price ratio, and I certainly want to take that criterion into account.
Honestly, I disagree
Klingons have the HoH'Sus and Norgh birds of prey, quite unique in their style and impossible to replicate with a warbird.
A Charal or Khyzon is still top dps against either fixed targets (e.g. Borg gates) or not too numerous moving targets (probes,...) even though the lack of a gravity well is a problem in other circumstances. Five fore weapons are an argument to be reckoned with. Also, flying a Mobius is a "pure Fed" style, since only a Fed captain has access to this particular ship skin (Krenn and R'Mor are of course equivalent).
Another great benefit - once you buy the C-Store versions of the Tactical Escort Retrofit (Defiant) and Heavy Escort Carrier (Armitage), you can obtain the fleet versions at a 75% discount. Win-win. Even though the C-store versions are slightly weak, compared to the competition, you can always buy the fleet versions to get a slight upgrade. All you need to do is focus on the space consoles and gear.
Link: My Generic Setup For Escort Ships
Science captains, keep an eye on the S'Golth ! It's a very neat escort for you.
The (Fleet) Patrol Escort is notable because it's easy to obtain, but is very survivable. The Qin is similarly easily obtained, and the Fleet Qin's 4th Eng console isn't as bad as some make it out to be. The Fleet Somraw is similarly fairly balanced and easily obtained, and is essentially a straight upgrade of the Mirror Qin.
All of these are inherently more survivable than the Fleet Birds of Prey and none of them are Lockbox ships, which makes them worth comparing for a KDF player. Note also that the Fleet BoPs have either 10 consoles or 12 Boff powers, while any other Fleet-grade ship has both.
No added console is as bad as anyone makes it out to be at this point yeah we all want 10 tac consoles but what's the worst that happens when you get console configs you don't want? more universal console toys?
why does your generic version use AP for borg stf's and plasma for all else?
haakona/fleet ha'apax can toss out half of the ship and turn into an escort style vehicle.
resulting in a heavy escort with 8 weapons and +20 total energy bonus.
and as funny as it is with some effort its possible to do aux2bat setup with a single commander engineer resulting in a 3 tac boffs setup.
Out of the 12 Boff powers, one is often sacrificed or redudant (the so-called "wasted ensign slot"). The Hoh'SuS is abreast with the best lockbox ships, while the Norgh sacrifices the fourth tactical console for a second Lt-Cmd slot : high price, high prize...
Actually, the wasted ensign slot is not only an issue for ships with 3 tactical bridge officers, but also for escorts relying on dual Aux2Batt to manage the cooldowns (mainly Gravity Well and Attack Pattern Omega). It means that all "4+1" tactical lines have an inherent flaw : not enough for two tactical teams and two scatter volleys, but a useless tactical ensign for dual Aux2Batt. The only ship able to play both setups without any inconvenience is the S'Golth. Fortunately, the wasted ensign problem is nothing too serious. The Hoh'SuS has even solved the problem by throwing the useless ensign through the window, a typical neat Klingon solution
Actually it was in my first version of the table, before I decided to write a cruiser table too on the Eclipse fleet forum. An "escort vector" with 8 weapons and a healer pet is certainly attractive in theory. After due thinking, though, the fleet Ha'apax with the Ha'akona console cannot be a very good escort because the Cmd engineer slot does not contribute to that purpose. Directed Energy Modulation 3 has been recently under the fire of critics even for cruiser setups. There is no good attacking ability for that slot. Also, three tactical ensign slots imply a wasted slot, as usual for an escort (the Defiant, Armitage and FAE also share this problem).
PS: Update in the original post about the wasted ensign problem and the specificity of the S'Golth.
PS2: Why is the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship still so expensive (and not the S'Golth) ?
The Risan Corvette remains a special ship because of its speed and turn rate (the cost of acquisition is measured in hours of farming during the event ; how to compare that with zen or energy credits is unclear to me), especially for the tour of the quadrant. Unfortunately, the Lt-Cmd engineer doesn't synergize well with the other ship traits. With a scientific Lt-Cmd it could compare with the T'Varo.
Fleet Dhelan Warbird
pretty much sums it up for me.
the ONLY downside i find with the fleet advanced is the third ensign tactical (that is resolved somewhat by the universal lt station on the dhelan).
to solve this i run a single copy TT on my fleet advanced, and use 1 copy of BO and 1 copy of FAW1 (lol) for my dual beam bank. It is unconventional, but at least im firing a special from an otherwise total waste of a boff slot (it only affects one weapon, but it doesnt interfere with anything else in the build whatsoever, so its just bonus).
beyond that, no complaints from me. both ships are absolute beasts as far as I am concerned. very very sci heavy little escorts, they pack a massive punch and have great survivability
if only that ensign tactical was ensign universal or engineering tho...
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