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Romulans are seriously lacking science vessels
annahmaria1
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So.. I rolled a Science Romulan Officer.
Subcommander level I got two science stations which I thought was good.
I received a promotion to commander...couldn't wait to see my new ship since I trained my science officers is some really good skills.
Then I realized the Romulans only have one ship to choose from...and it's an engineering ship...similar to a Federation Cruiser.
Not only do I have a ship not suited to my class and not only did I not get a higher level science station....but I actually lost a science station...went from two down to one.
Also, this doesn't make any sense for Romulans. Romulans prided themselves on scientific endeavors and they were always on par...if not slightly ahead of the Federation when it came to scientific breakthroughs.
So what happened?
I can live with just one Romulan bridge and interior...but just one ship to choose from with each promotion?
If you want to really take advantage of the Romulan Class in this game then be a tactical officer or an engineer. They totally left the science out to space.
Subcommander level I got two science stations which I thought was good.
I received a promotion to commander...couldn't wait to see my new ship since I trained my science officers is some really good skills.
Then I realized the Romulans only have one ship to choose from...and it's an engineering ship...similar to a Federation Cruiser.
Not only do I have a ship not suited to my class and not only did I not get a higher level science station....but I actually lost a science station...went from two down to one.
Also, this doesn't make any sense for Romulans. Romulans prided themselves on scientific endeavors and they were always on par...if not slightly ahead of the Federation when it came to scientific breakthroughs.
So what happened?
I can live with just one Romulan bridge and interior...but just one ship to choose from with each promotion?
If you want to really take advantage of the Romulan Class in this game then be a tactical officer or an engineer. They totally left the science out to space.
Post edited by annahmaria1 on
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Otherwise, I agree with you.
They did? They were? When? I don't remember this from the shows.
I honestly don't remember anything about the Romulans being so science-y either.
The Romulan ship lineup is actually quite good for giving you a variety of styles as you level up so you can pick what you want to do at Tier 5.
My Romulan Science has a T5 T'Varo & Mirror Ha'feh waiting for them and will take the Ha'nom. I'm really considering the T5 Dheln as a Sci Destroyer styled ship.
Maybe I'll splurge on a the Scimitar pack, but I'm just not sure.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Well, the ones in TOS certainly weren't and in Star Trek the difference between Science and Engineering is...fluid to say the least.;)
There are certainly signs in TNG that the Romulans are actually more advanced than Starfleet in some areas and at least as good as them in others.
For example in "The Defector" Data states they can aim their weapons as accurately as Starfleet can while "In the Mind's Eye" shows the Romulans can build a better Starfleet Phaser rifle than Starfleet can:
DATA: Energy flow is within normal parameters, from the pre-fire chamber to the emission aperture.
LAFORGE: Rapid nadion pulse, right on target. Beam control assembly, safety interlock, both checked out. Beam width intensity controls also responding correctly.
DATA: Energy cell usage remains constant at one point oh five megajoules per second. Curious. The efficiency reading on the discharge crystal is well above Starfleet specifications.
LAFORGE: Yeah, by quite a bit. Ninety four point one percent efficiency.
DATA: Our most efficient discharge crystal typically fires with eighty six point five percent efficiency.
LAFORGE: Let's take a closer look at the wave pattern on the emission beam. That might tell us why it's losing so little energy.
DATA: Pulse frequency out of pre-fire chamber reads steady.
LAFORGE: There. That's not right. The initial output spike is inverted.
DATA: That might suggest that the weapon has been charged with a forced pulse, well into the terahertz range.
LAFORGE: Then it's definitely not Starfleet issue and there can't be that many systems that use the terahertz feeds.
We also know from DS9:"When it Rains..." that they have a Ministry of Science and from Voy:"Eye of the Needle" about their Astrophysical Academy...that does indicate they're quite interested in science from TNG onwards.
Not sure if it's enough evidence but for me that combined with at least one type of actual science ship it indicates quite a sciency approach to things.
As a Rom Sci, I also picked the Ha'nom. Perhaps as my Fed and KDF have been escort flying tacs, I felt let down with the turn rate and fire power of the Ha'nom and my idea to do something different this time paled!
I got all possible T'Varos in order to build a Fleet one and really liked the ship.
I also tried a Mirror Ha'feh and liked that as well - it's a singularity equipped Advanced Escort as far as I can tell.
Then I got my Corvette and, though it shames me a little, I prefer that more - speed tanking my way round the STFs. Of course, this means I am flying it like a tac but with sensor scan and sub-nuke instead of APA and FOMM.
I was hoping to make a good amalgam out of the Scimitar but the more I read and hear, the less sure I am that I want it.
Probably something to do with getting their collective societal face blown off and only having warships (Warbirds) in the republic armada.
Word coming down the pipe that the Republic is coming out with a canon (read: butt TRIBBLE ugly) dedicated science ship in the near future, and another science vessel from the future is going to be salvaged and added to the republic fleet.
Shrike Class Infiltration Vessel
Griffin Class Patrol Cruiser
Shadow Class Science Vessel
Generix Class Heavy Support Cruiser
Raptor Class Long Range Support Cruiser
and the list goes on and on...
Admiral Sovak
Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers...
it will be quicker and easier to level up anyway
After you level one character its just a grind anyway
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
From what I understand (and I loved that game) they can't use ships designed by another game unless they came from the TV show.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Sci just isn't a option in this game and I don't see much getting done with it unless they give Sci stuff a buff.
Science by far is the weakest of the triangle and lets be honest not many people want Science ships or play Science.
I rarely ever see any, only time I ever seen a Varanus is in Qo'nos or DS9 dropping their repair platform to bug people with those little swarmer fly around.
Don't get me wrong I like Sci ships and with Sci abilities and even own some c-store sci ships(Vesta included but more.)I would like to see Sci abilities get buffed but if it didn't happen with all of the work on the expansion I don't know if it will ever happen.
Canonical justification for no science ships
The Republic isn't exactly a sciencey organisation, they're a terrorist group. They don't really need to do any development, exploration or any of that stuff since they have all the equipment anyway, no research required. Plus, when you're waging a war with highly limited resources, you probable don't consider cataloging tribbles to be too important.
And going back, all the Romulan ships you've seen in the show have been property of the Romulan Military, hence the tactical focus.
Gameplay justification for no science ships
They're making what they majority will be happy with.
A disproportionately high percentage of the player base use escorts and battlecruisers, so they give you escorts and battlecruisers. Also, if they gave you a Mogai with an ensign level tactical slot and commander science, you'd all complain it was inaccurate
Romulans being sciency historically
Of course they were! You don't discover space flight, warp travel and how to harness a black hole to keep the lights on without having a scientific community. Why do some of you feel the need to question this?
Romulans being more technologically advanced than the Federation
I seem to remember this as fact, although I've no idea where I got this from. I do remember multiple references to Specific examples of Romulan tech being superior to their federation counterparts. But overall they were always stated as being on-par with fed capabilities... Awfully conveniently I always thought.
For the various things the Romulans are more advanced on, it's hard to tell whether this shows a higher level of scientific capability, since the federation refuse to even attempt half of them. e.g. Cloaks, thalaron weapons...
We have of course seen thousands of federation breakthroughs that we've no indication the Romulans have even come close to. The reasoning for this is obvious 660-odd fed based episodes, 3 Romulan based.
Personally, I'd like the Romulans to use Son'a ships as science ships. Justifying this may be tricky, but I just want them for the awesome appearance :P
John Eaves even referred to one of them as a science ship! It was The collector, which isn't exactly feasible in game, but comeon!!
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
See...this is the problem. Science officers do not belong in the Dehlan, or the Ha'feh. They belong in science vessels.
Right now there is the Fleet Ha'nom and the Mirror version. Those are science vessels. They have COMMANDER stations for scicence boff's..that means you get to use all the best science abilities there is, not to mention they also have Sensor Analysis, which is a huge deal for sci captains.
Science captains flying anything other than science vessel are just gimping themselves, you just do NOT have the all the science bonuses that sci ships come with.
All of the people I talk to that plan on trying this game, I will always give them a run down about it, and the FIRST thing i tell them is to fly the ships that were designed for their class. I.E..Engineer/Cruiser, Science/Science Vessel, Tactical/Escorts-Destroyers.
I am a firm believer in that logic, I believe the game was designed with that in mind as well. I do not think that it is logical for classes flying ships not intended for their class. Agree or disagree, I am correct. I will not come back here and try to defend my position, and to prove something that is already a fact.
Good day
You're not, though.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Most Romulan ships usually have some very good varieties for the Science captain, and they are deadly with these Romulan ships. Romulan ships are basically catered for everyone, with an immense amount of versatility for each class and can decide what they want, for their builds.
The Dhelan, T'varo, Tulwar, D'deridex, and even the Tal Shiar ships are extremely capable ships for Science captains. Most of these ships do have Lt Cmdr Sci slots, and while nothing compared to the Ha'nom with its sci heavy slots, they can still be a major asset to the Science captain. With their numerous abilities towards Engineering and Tactical, they can debuff enemies while providing other captains respectable DPS or support for the team. Although, Science captains are powerful with Sci vessels, they are also competitive in ships that have less of a science focus.
I continuously fly Engineers with escorts along with cruisers, although they can never do as much damage as a Tactical, they can certainly be a powerful tank, especially ones with engineering heavy BOffs (Armitage and Jem'Hadar Heavy Escort carriers, respectfully). If you really want a science ship, there is a Romulan timeship on the works, with possibly a mirror universe variant.
Except they don't *belong* in anything and flying in something beside a Sci ship doesn't gimp you. In most cases you're probably better off in a escort or cruiser as a Sci.
In a Rational conversation one must listen to the other person, and one must accept that while your own point of view is always relevant, it may not be right.
Since you are Correct and feel no need to come back and discuss your position, but prefer to simply state your opinions as fact you are not being Rational.
I know an Engineer in an Escort is not as good a Tank as an Engineer in a Cruiser, and not as good DPS as a Tac in an Escort. Heck I build my characters for a variety of ships so they can be moderately good in any vessel. Which is still adding weaknesses to my characters.
But you know what I can easily achieve the Objectives in Elites and I can have fun doing it. I don't need to make a Fed Tac to try the HEC, I can put my Engineer in it and enjoy the PEW PEW factor for a time. I don't need to start a Sci just to take a Carrier out for a spin.
That being said I remember a time in this game before Sci got Nerfed, when the most powerful possible Combination in the game was a Sci in a KDF BoP. Sub Nuke + CRF + Sci abilities where just too powerful.
If anything Science is the most versatile career adding both offensive and defensive captain abilities to any ship and capable of making it shine. A Sci/Escort will not out DPS a Tac/Escort, a Sci/Cruiser will not out tank a Eng/Cruiser. But you can do either role 2nd best and your going to be so much more effective than either of those careers in a Sci ship. Especially considering all Space Skill trees are Identical.
Also Viral Matrix, Being countered by Sci Team followed by Sub-Nuke is still funny in Kerrat. Especially when your in the T5 T'Varo.
To those of you reading this wondering about Sci Vessels and Romulans don't worry they will come and in the mean time you can use a Escort or Cruiser just as effectively. STO is a game that has broken the Trinity and does not force you down a single road so embrace it.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
While it is true that Romulans do not have a top-class science ship yet, a Romulan science captain is far from resourceless.
1) True, the "fan approach" is a bit lacking here. There is no iconic science vessel on the Romulan side, because of the developers' choice to make three different variants of the Ha'something instead of making three variants of the D'deridex (which is surely more popular among the fanbase of the series) and permuting these with the Ha'apax in the level ladder. I'm sure that there are reasons for this choice and a balance had to be struck between consistency, gameplay and the players' aesthetical wishes. Sad though.
2) There is no romulan ship with a Cmd Boff slot and a good damage potential. The Ha'nom is probably good as part of a PvP team, yet it cannot be recommended on its own for high-end PvE. Is this a such a problem ? The scientific Romulan can fly on a Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser, a Tholian Recluse, a temporal Wells/Korath vessel or a Tholian Orb Weaver. These options are tailored for the scientific captain, are available for Romulans and cover an interesting variety of game experiences (raw firepower, a carrier, the nimble Wells...). The only trouble here is the cost of acquiring one of these vessels. They're quite expensive but not prohibitively so (and worth every bit of the investment in terms of fun).
3) The "ease-of-use" approach is actually where scientific Romulans have an advantage. If you want to fly an escort, arguably the easiest gameplay in STO, pick up the Fleet T'varo and enjoy the use of scientific powers while cloaked ! If you prefer to fly a slow but powerful "cruiser-like" feeling, pick up a Scimitar and enjoy all the little bonuses (carrier pet, flexibility on the Lt-Cmd slot,...). These options are often better than the corresponding ones for Federation or Klingon captains. If you want a science-minded escort in Starfleet, you have to own a Chel Grett or to buy a Mobius or a Tal Shiar Destroyer (good ships, but more expensive than the T5 T'Varo). A scientific klingon captain can fly a bird of prey, of course, which is just as good as the T'Varo. On the other hand, the Corsair won't be so powerful as the Scimitar in the hands of a science captain (to be sure, it's a good solid ship for the engineer) and there is no true flight-deck cruiser specific to Starfleet. To be honest I think that a science captain will fare better in an adequate escort than in a cruiser (or equivalent), but that opinion might just reflect my own bias.
The only ground of complaints, given the above arguments, is the absence of iconic romulan science vessel for the fans of the series. Maybe the next addition to the C-store can solve that ? There are many ways of doing so without harming anyone. And on the side of players, a little patience after a major extension of the game is certainly wise.
In the meantime I think I will be happy with my Hanom, just no fleet ship modules for me until I get a tac/sci hybrid like I said above. My fed rolled in his level 40 assault cruiser for a long time and I enjoyed it.
If somebody can't cope with slightly reduced power levels without relying on atb... Well, It's hard to finish that sentence without people being insulted.
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
You're right, the Scimitar is a warbird, I edited my post to avoid any confusion. I actually fly one with my engineer captain, exactly as you suspect (aux2batt and Lt-Cmd engineer), and it tanks whatever the PvE content can throw at me (I don't want to open the Pandora box about the necessity of Aux2Batt in a thread devoted to the choice of ships for science captains, though).
Will a science captain be able to tank with a Scimitar and a science Lt-Cmd ? I doubt it, and agree with you on that particular point. But why wouldn't the science captain be able to do what he's supposed to do, namely to debuff, control and cause a fair share of damages ? A Scimitar with a science captain should not be a tank of the same sort as if operated by a engineer. Aux2Batt, for one thing, would be less than convincing given the science captain's frequent need for auxilliary power (skillful play and careful timing can solve this issue, but you're really tying one of your hand to the opposite foot if you do this). My point is that it is suitable for other roles, more so than comparable ships for the Federation or for the KDF.
Also, I've edited my post to mention that I'm less convinced by the potential of a science captain on a Scimitar than by the possibility and resourcefulness of a science captain on an escort. But who knows, a debuffing captain in a flight-deck "cruiser/warbird" might become viable and powerful with the appropriate build and equipment.
Right now I'm playing a D'deridex Retrofit.
I gives my a LtComm Science so I have Gravity Well and use the Universal for science. It's important for Science Captains to have a Sci Ship option in perticial if you are have Photonic Capacitor traited.
The nice thing is the D'deridex Retrofit has Projected Singularity which is like a Gravity Well on speed, steroids, and gamma rays. Sadly it can only be used by the D'deridex.
Picked up the Mirror Ha'nom, it was ok. Rather boring.
Might give the Daeinos a try
Mave no interest in the Scimitar (too aggressive looking for my character)
If I get the Tholian or Tal Shiar ships it's going to be for my KDF sci (storywise makes more sense)
Have the Haakona more or less like the D'deridex, but no Projected Singularity (which is AWESOME)
Still, I REALLY REALLY want the D'Kyr for my Reunifcationist Romulian (maybe add Fleet version to ship yard and make it open to Fed Roms?)(needs to be rebalanced)
I'm interested in the upcoming temporal ships and hope I can snag it for less than 15m
Heck if there was tailor option to make the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser look like D'deridex, I'd get it. If it could also use the Projected Singularity since the Adapted Battle Cruiser is a modded D'deridex, I'd get it right now.
Heck possibly of 8 Sci powers, Sensor Analysis, AND 8 weapons slots. Give me D'deridex option for people who own the D'deridex Retro.