I disagree with your entire stance here, as I believe it functions under a major misconception. PWE gives STO a budget - as they give all of Cryptic's games and teams, as well as all their other games and teams, a budget - and tells them to make money using the FTP system.
So in your world , sales & profit targets & profit analysis -- those are things that happen to 'other ppl' ?
Because what you just said amounts to " "you take money and you go make me money now !" .
And that is a caricature , not reality .
And Devs certainly aren't told to not post here by PW.
No , they just have a meeting (or memo's) that elaborate on the next phase of the controlled , planned and staggered marketing strategy that explains exactly what is to be talked about and when and by whom ... , which at the end of the day leaves ppl like Gecko to "talk" for hours about STO prior to LoR , while sounding something like this :
"We are really excited about LoR , we've worked very hard for 7 months on it and unfortunately I can't say anything about it .
So what are we going to talk about for the next 6 hours ? I hope you have some questions ."
Yeah , that sure sounds like the Cryptic we used to know , who took pride in their transparency and fan interaction . :cool:
Yeah , that sure sounds like the Cryptic we used to know , who took pride in their transparency and fan interaction . :cool:
I distinctly recall elements of the community having something to do with that.
Cryptic got burned once too often by nerd rage over things they said, or that people thought they said, or promises they made or didn't make.
Dan in particular used to be a lot more open about what they hoped to be doing. He loves to talk about the game and hype it. But he got raked over the coals when stuff didn't happen.
So now he mostly only talks about stuff that's actually on the schedule to get done. Even then he doesn't say too much because they want to keep some things a surprise to keep the hype level at a high.
I bet the Devs would LOVE to kibbitz about the things we'd all like to put on our wish lists for this game. It would be AWESOME if we could have a public bug tracker so we'd know what they were trying to squash. But this isn't open source and it would only lead to trouble, so they don't.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Those actually weren't his words. As is quite usual on this forum, what he said was taken entirely out of context of what he meant. He never said anything about having no interest in fixing problems.
First rule of a forum, if you believe even 1/10th of what someone says on a forum you're believing 99.9% too much.
While it may be out of context, even if he had not said anything at all a LOT of players fell this way.
Actions speak louder than words, and for whatever reason so far they have chosen to not make bugs a priority. But like others have said, any bug that is beneficial to players is squashed immediately. I can understand how such bugs are actually detrimental to the game in some cases, but for them to have such a rapid response times to them and not bugs that aggravate the players just makes it all a big joke.
While it may be out of context, even if he had not said anything at all a LOT of players fell this way.
Actions speak louder than words, and for whatever reason so far they have chosen to not make bugs a priority. But like others have said, any bug that is beneficial to players is squashed immediately. I can understand how such bugs are actually detrimental to the game in some cases, but for them to have such a rapid response times to them and not bugs that aggravate the players just makes it all a big joke.
And Devs certainly aren't told to not post here by PW. The only difference between now and then is that in the past Cryptic had several more extroverted Devs who didn't mind getting dirty. Heretic and Logan where happy to talk about what they were doing, and Gozer was willing to argue with anyone on the forum about anything. The only old Dev who doesn't spend much time here any more is Dan.
I'm not so sure about that. As you said, Dan used to be on here quite a lot cheerleading about all the totally awesome things that may or may not have been in the pipelines. But all of that was before he left and the PWE thing was made official. Now that he's back, its a rare thing to hear from him in anything outside an interview or Ask Cryptic/SoTG.
Its pure speculation, but it really seems like either A: he was outright told to cool it on his posting, or B: it was heavily implied that he should. Its hard to imagine there not having been some sort of intervention. It isn't like he learned from being burned with his own statements time after time before he left for Zinga, so why would he after?
I'm not actually suggesting that QA doesn't know what they're doing or that they are working on the wrong things. I'm suggesting that we the players have little or no idea and because of that there's no check on negative speculations.
Then they should do a better job at QA because frankly, I don't think it is acceptable that the rushed and horribly bugged Risa rewards were released in their current state. Please tell me how QA can allow this to be released (I'm not going to re-write it so I am just linking you to the feedback I left regarding the "Risian Rush Jobs"). http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11577041&postcount=42
I genuinely believe this game has improved over time as in the past I had quit as I didn't feel the game was worth paying a sub for because the QA was so shoddy. After coming back again, it was fun but the bugs and quality of the game made me quit again. This time around I joined friends in a fleet, lo and behold the game's quality had improved significantly in LoR. So much I actually resubbed again! But after working hard for the Risian outfits and the massive disappointment in how bugged they are, I have started questioning the value of paying a sub once more.
To top it off, I now feel at max level once the episodes were cleared out the way that the quality of the game drops significantly again. It has turned into an endless grind going uphill against a cash shop which is asking for money at every turn. What is forecast? More grind! Even STF's I missed out on and now they are grindfests with no actual story to them whilst PUGs roll need on everything, stopping me from acquiring actual useful items for my ship.
The game goes from being Captain of your starship in an engrossing story and immersion that you are piloting a small living city through space to a progress bar simulator filled with bugs.
Before PWE this was a subscription based game, he had to prevent people from jumping ship and this is why we have a long list of promises that were made at that time, promises they had months if not years to deliver before PWE.
Right now, if you jump ship they dont as much to lose because they are expecting someone else to come in and replace you if that happens or that you came back later, there is no reason to make promises and more promises so you dont leave since they no longer have to rely on subscriptions.
I prefer honestly over empty promises, perhaps like a abused wife you like to hear your husband promising he changes before the next hospital visit after "falling down the stairs", I dont.
Uh...Ok. Never said I liked what Dan was saying, just that he used to be here a heck of a lot more then he is now and that he may have been told to go sit in a corner and be quiet. Not sure where you're getting abused wife out of that.
I don't know about you, but Cryptic has seen the last dime out of me they'll ever get a long time ago.
Because you rather have empty promises instead of actual work, Cryptic developers should spend time on fixing their messes and not going to the forums and post about future plans.
You all say that ... even I said that, before buying what given me that green title under my avatar.
But on a business perspective, i doubt it will even help them.. Yeah, by "fixing" the tour they can play the margin and nerf one way to get EC. But what is the result? I see loads of angry players (which in essence are/were possible paying costumers) in the newly created topic.
If i look at myself; now with the latest few stealth nerf patches (there have been a lot last couple of months) i get more and more restrained to put money in the game which is caused by the main reason STO/Cryptic has become an unreliable supplier (yup; they supply the game, i consume it).
The next question is; what will they going to nerf next. Is it worth the time to grind after all?
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
So the latest stealth nerf is tour of the universe. For some players this was a reasonably easy way to earn a couple of million EC, a way they enjoyed without rewarding stupid amounts of the currency.
Now they have put a four hour CD on it; why? They wish to reduce the amount of EC available to people obviously, but as EC is required to purchase some of the incredibly rare drops on the exchange then how will folks get that EC, by purchasing lock box keys perhaps?
Is this another example of sacrificing game-play for profit?
Haha sounds like out of a conspiracy theory...
But I have to admit they either tried battling inflation and doing something good in a very bad way, or they really are just after the money on this one. Maybe both.
The way to hell is paved with good intentions.............
A broken sales environment doesnt produce any more sales.
why buy a ship, when you actually cannot play the ship, cause nearly every move is somehow bugged.
i cannot understand the attitude towards that fact. the really sacrifice the game and the sale as a whole. who buys costumes and ships, when you actually cannot "use" them?!
It doesn't really matter who has made, makes or will make money from this game. It's just very sad that whoever they are, they can't see that if you deliver Star Trek in a game to Star Trek fans, you will have every single one of them for life. If you don't, your game will have to go f2p after a year because the subscription money doesn't cover the costs.
I love this game, but it's not just gameplay that's been sacrificed for profit here, it's the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Comments
So in your world , sales & profit targets & profit analysis -- those are things that happen to 'other ppl' ?
Because what you just said amounts to " "you take money and you go make me money now !" .
And that is a caricature , not reality .
No , they just have a meeting (or memo's) that elaborate on the next phase of the controlled , planned and staggered marketing strategy that explains exactly what is to be talked about and when and by whom ... , which at the end of the day leaves ppl like Gecko to "talk" for hours about STO prior to LoR , while sounding something like this :
"We are really excited about LoR , we've worked very hard for 7 months on it and unfortunately I can't say anything about it .
So what are we going to talk about for the next 6 hours ? I hope you have some questions ."
Yeah , that sure sounds like the Cryptic we used to know , who took pride in their transparency and fan interaction . :cool:
I distinctly recall elements of the community having something to do with that.
Cryptic got burned once too often by nerd rage over things they said, or that people thought they said, or promises they made or didn't make.
Dan in particular used to be a lot more open about what they hoped to be doing. He loves to talk about the game and hype it. But he got raked over the coals when stuff didn't happen.
So now he mostly only talks about stuff that's actually on the schedule to get done. Even then he doesn't say too much because they want to keep some things a surprise to keep the hype level at a high.
I bet the Devs would LOVE to kibbitz about the things we'd all like to put on our wish lists for this game. It would be AWESOME if we could have a public bug tracker so we'd know what they were trying to squash. But this isn't open source and it would only lead to trouble, so they don't.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
While it may be out of context, even if he had not said anything at all a LOT of players fell this way.
Actions speak louder than words, and for whatever reason so far they have chosen to not make bugs a priority. But like others have said, any bug that is beneficial to players is squashed immediately. I can understand how such bugs are actually detrimental to the game in some cases, but for them to have such a rapid response times to them and not bugs that aggravate the players just makes it all a big joke.
*clap clap clap clap*
I'm not so sure about that. As you said, Dan used to be on here quite a lot cheerleading about all the totally awesome things that may or may not have been in the pipelines. But all of that was before he left and the PWE thing was made official. Now that he's back, its a rare thing to hear from him in anything outside an interview or Ask Cryptic/SoTG.
Its pure speculation, but it really seems like either A: he was outright told to cool it on his posting, or B: it was heavily implied that he should. Its hard to imagine there not having been some sort of intervention. It isn't like he learned from being burned with his own statements time after time before he left for Zinga, so why would he after?
Then they should do a better job at QA because frankly, I don't think it is acceptable that the rushed and horribly bugged Risa rewards were released in their current state. Please tell me how QA can allow this to be released (I'm not going to re-write it so I am just linking you to the feedback I left regarding the "Risian Rush Jobs"). http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11577041&postcount=42
I genuinely believe this game has improved over time as in the past I had quit as I didn't feel the game was worth paying a sub for because the QA was so shoddy. After coming back again, it was fun but the bugs and quality of the game made me quit again. This time around I joined friends in a fleet, lo and behold the game's quality had improved significantly in LoR. So much I actually resubbed again! But after working hard for the Risian outfits and the massive disappointment in how bugged they are, I have started questioning the value of paying a sub once more.
To top it off, I now feel at max level once the episodes were cleared out the way that the quality of the game drops significantly again. It has turned into an endless grind going uphill against a cash shop which is asking for money at every turn. What is forecast? More grind! Even STF's I missed out on and now they are grindfests with no actual story to them whilst PUGs roll need on everything, stopping me from acquiring actual useful items for my ship.
The game goes from being Captain of your starship in an engrossing story and immersion that you are piloting a small living city through space to a progress bar simulator filled with bugs.
Uh...Ok. Never said I liked what Dan was saying, just that he used to be here a heck of a lot more then he is now and that he may have been told to go sit in a corner and be quiet. Not sure where you're getting abused wife out of that.
I don't know about you, but Cryptic has seen the last dime out of me they'll ever get a long time ago.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
99 little bugs in the code,
99 bugs in the code,
fix one bug, compile it again,
101 little bugs in the code.
101 little bugs in the code,....
/condescending headpat
101 little bugs in the code.
catch one down, stamp it out,
250 little bugs in the code,....
But on a business perspective, i doubt it will even help them.. Yeah, by "fixing" the tour they can play the margin and nerf one way to get EC. But what is the result? I see loads of angry players (which in essence are/were possible paying costumers) in the newly created topic.
If i look at myself; now with the latest few stealth nerf patches (there have been a lot last couple of months) i get more and more restrained to put money in the game which is caused by the main reason STO/Cryptic has become an unreliable supplier (yup; they supply the game, i consume it).
The next question is; what will they going to nerf next. Is it worth the time to grind after all?
Sad, sad, sad...
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Haha sounds like out of a conspiracy theory...
But I have to admit they either tried battling inflation and doing something good in a very bad way, or they really are just after the money on this one. Maybe both.
The way to hell is paved with good intentions.............
A broken sales environment doesnt produce any more sales.
why buy a ship, when you actually cannot play the ship, cause nearly every move is somehow bugged.
i cannot understand the attitude towards that fact. the really sacrifice the game and the sale as a whole. who buys costumes and ships, when you actually cannot "use" them?!
I love this game, but it's not just gameplay that's been sacrificed for profit here, it's the Star Trek part of Star Trek Online.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
250 little bug in the code.
track one down and scramble more around,
500 little bugs in the code........
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!