The fact they are trying to make the system expensive to sell more is not what's the most important about what he said.
No, I think it's worth noting Cryptic think a good way to upgrade DOFF is to buy Cstore pack. Which are, expect for the unique abilities, almost the same than any DOFF pack, containing a lot of white, and a few unco or better.
I must admit, I laughed reading that.
They could change the whole upgrade doff so it cost zen or real money everytime, it wouldn't change the fact the Cstore pack do not upgrade anything, and the drop rate of rare is low. The only thing interesting about those is the unique and sometimes almost OP abilities, and the rare ship (when there is one).
They could have focus on that and kept the price as they were, because they won't sell more because of that. In fact, they could sell even less, as some people (like myself) have simply stopped DOFFing because of the new prices, and I don't need DOFF pack anymore.
What "sickens me" is people complaining about a game that is so outrageously free.
Take it from me, the only thing you pay for here is convenience.
Sure people have dropped tons of money on this game, including buying doffs, but that was your choice to do.
Sorry but the "this game is free" argument is slowly diminishing. They are finding more and more ways to get your money. People are spending 5-10 times more nowadays in these so called F2P games than they ever did in a game that has a monthly sub. Now that is sickening.
Sorry but the "this game is free" argument is slowly diminishing. They are finding more and more ways to get your money. People are spending 5-10 times more nowadays in these so called F2P games than they ever did in a game that has a monthly sub. Now that is sickening.
And yet I can play just fine in my free Patrol Escort with green or blue gear drops and do Elite STFs just as quickly as a Fleet Defiant with maxed-out purple gear. I seriously doubt an ESTF takes even 30 seconds longer to do in my free ship with free gear compared to my C-Store versions.
For the vast, vast, vast majority of players who don't PvP the idea that you need anything from the C-Store is foolishness. When they buy things from the C-Store they do so for vanity, not necessity. And I will only touch on the idea that the average player can make 240,000 Dilithium per month just playing the game, and thus have some 1,600-2,000 free Zen every single month to do with as they please. A $25.00 ship purchase a month isn't that expensive when you're only paying $7-$9.00 - which is less then you'd pay for a monthly subscription.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
This game is not free. Some of us pay subs, some of us bought an initial pre-F2P licence that was effectively stripped away, some of us have paid for C-Store items that indirectly pay for server upkeep too. In fact, I was a bloody idiot and did all three so I dread to think how much this "free" game has cost me, yet I still get bombed with gotchas or other stuff to try make me pay yet again.
But if you aren't subbed you lose a bunch of perks and vet reward credit so relying just on the C-Store is paying more for less of an experience.
Sorry but the "this game is free" argument is slowly diminishing. They are finding more and more ways to get your money. People are spending 5-10 times more nowadays in these so called F2P games than they ever did in a game that has a monthly sub. Now that is sickening.
They're paying because they're impatient. They'd rather pay money to get something NOW, rather than take it slower and build up dilithium. I can't say I'm any better, but it boils down to making a choice. Yeah, they make the paying option look enticing compared to the free one. At the end of the day, they're still a business, and in order to keep providing their services, Cryptic needs to make money. But you can still choose to go about it without paying anything.
EDIT - Oh for God sake, not you and your free ZEN TRIBBLE again. Those guys are scammers, spammers and crooks. Stop supporting them and sucking others into that sham.
What are you talking about? No one mentioned scammers, spammers, etc. I'm talking about using the Dilithium Exchange to convert Dilithium to Zen. IE, converting a grinding currency to a C-Store currency. That's not a scam, spam, or crooked.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Right, sorry. I thought you were referring to those Peanut Labs idiots from when we argued in the C-Store forum a year back. I shouldn't have blown up like that, I've been melting in an office all day. >.<
Right, sorry. I thought you were referring to those Peanut Labs idiots from when we argued in the C-Store forum a year back. I shouldn't have blown up like that, I've been melting in an office all day. >.<
No problems. I've been there myself. When I was in college I once spent a summer working on a road crew in Nevada - never again! 105 outside every day and the asphalt pushing that heat to 130. Heat can make you cranky quickly.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Rivera thinks that the current DOff system tends to scare away many of the game's more casual players; he would like any new changes to also include ways to make the system less complicated and therefore more fun to use.
With LOR we get:
1. Zen$; Romulan Survivor Duty Officer Pack
2. Random Zen$; Suliban Cell Ship
3. Random Chance for Romulan Boff ONLY in Taw/Command Center
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
I have played just about every MMO out there and because I have played so many I have come to hate grinding for things so from my perspective, and any players who have these same feelings towards grinding, STO and Neverwinter are quite expensive to play compared to the MMO's I have played where you get access to everything the game has to offer with a subscription. If STO offered that I would sub immediately, as it stands the only time I sub'ed to it was just before The Legacy of Romulus was released so I did not have to wait around in login queue's, and that worked really well though I only sub'ed for the one month that the logins were a problem.
Sadly because MMO developers can make so much more cash from launching free to play with a cash shop the days of MMO's with sub only are pretty much done and over with so I either need to get back to grinding or pull out my credit card more often then I really should be. There is a reason most MMO's are free to play with a cash shop and that reason is they are MUCH more profitable that way, simple as that.
How could they implement this along side their bread and butter lock box ships?
By having the DOff chain require several pieces you need to get from the lockboxes, instead of the complete ship. So no one will get lucky and get one with just one opened box. Now you'll need 10!
DO NOT change the DOFF system because you aren't "way undercharging" for it. you guys honestly sicken me.
Before I get flamed by trolls, READ the article.
Umm sir.. you ned to have read the article yourself. The chnage on the doffs that your all in a lather about has allready happened, its allready in the game. (you didn't pay attention)
And yea, it is about monitization. It is about greed, and yes, IMO they do overcharge... for everything..
Charge more for a virtual model that cannot enjoy out side of the game etc, for more they you would pay a plastic kit of the same ship in 1/350 scale.
No, and i doubt that there will ever be any...unfortunately there is little logic in actually implementing a 3rd to an already existing and older lockbox imo. 2 factions = 2 timeship designs.
I have played just about every MMO out there and because I have played so many I have come to hate grinding for things so from my perspective, and any players who have these same feelings towards grinding, STO and Neverwinter are quite expensive to play compared to the MMO's I have played where you get access to everything the game has to offer with a subscription. If STO offered that I would sub immediately, as it stands the only time I sub'ed to it was just before The Legacy of Romulus was released so I did not have to wait around in login queue's, and that worked really well though I only sub'ed for the one month that the logins were a problem.
Sadly because MMO developers can make so much more cash from launching free to play with a cash shop the days of MMO's with sub only are pretty much done and over with so I either need to get back to grinding or pull out my credit card more often then I really should be. There is a reason most MMO's are free to play with a cash shop and that reason is they are MUCH more profitable that way, simple as that.
Ehh, you do know STO was subscription based for 2 years before it became F2P, right?
But, I crash in sector space trying to load maps like 2 times out of 3. Before LoR I'd very rarely crash if ever.
Don't know how other people play it but I never upgrinded a single doff post the dil cost and any other dil changes they introduce will have the exact same effect.
It's funny how he talks about firstly making more people use by simplifying the HUD and secondly increasing the cost.
How about lowering the costs and make the rewards better?
You can have what, 300 of the best minds from your faction and they can't even put a hypo together without it costing dil? Really ?
You know I'd imagine a crew like that could make all kinds of things, customized modifers on weapons and hybrid consoles and what not.
I have played just about every MMO out there and because I have played so many I have come to hate grinding for things so from my perspective, and any players who have these same feelings towards grinding, STO and Neverwinter are quite expensive to play compared to the MMO's I have played where you get access to everything the game has to offer with a subscription. If STO offered that I would sub immediately, as it stands the only time I sub'ed to it was just before The Legacy of Romulus was released so I did not have to wait around in login queue's, and that worked really well though I only sub'ed for the one month that the logins were a problem.
Sadly because MMO developers can make so much more cash from launching free to play with a cash shop the days of MMO's with sub only are pretty much done and over with so I either need to get back to grinding or pull out my credit card more often then I really should be. There is a reason most MMO's are free to play with a cash shop and that reason is they are MUCH more profitable that way, simple as that.
What drives FTP is the need to make money. Not just the need to make more money. The global economy sucks. Most of the EU is over 12%+ unemployed. The US is only 7.6%, but even that is still 3% higher then we would want it to be. There's a growing number of people who just don't have an extra $15.00 a month - but they do have the free time to grind away.
The golden days of sub-based MMOs are behind us now. There's just too many things competing for the same entertainment dollar today. 8 years ago no one envisioned smart phones and tablets; and all the money spent on games for those items, and other APs, and even streaming services like Netflix - not to mention xbox 1-4, playstation 1-4, etc. There's just too many other places to put you entertainment dollar now. Even the mighty WoW is down to 8 million subscribers, and continuing to drop each quarter. MMOs are now competing with the entire internet, not just other MMOs.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Just read the article, I must say they make me nervous when proposing changes especially when the lead designer(Al Rivera in this case) still doesn't think they are charging enough for the DOFF system. I can tell you I haven't traded in a single doff since they implemented the dil cost. The DOFF packs from the C-store are a joke, I'll just buy what I want off the exchange, and do the officer exchanges/instigate defection type missions or colony chains. 275 zen for starbase fodder and an unpowered artifact? please, the blue I got out of that lone pack was a civilian(like I need another one of those). I can tell you for sure that I wasted 275 zen and wont likely buy another doff pack so maybe they should think about making them a little more attractive. I'd be more inclined to buy the pack if I was guaranteed a purple or something like that.
Hrmmm, I'm trying to see the problem with what Geko said (ahem, yes - I chuckled in typing that) regarding a potential increase in the cost to upgrade DOFFs. If it is unduly cheaper for folks to go about something one way than the other, then that's generally going to be bad for the game.
With things like the Dil/Zen Exchange, yes - folks can avoid "paying" to get things...but somebody still had to buy the Zen.
With the DOFFs though - the Zen aspect could be completely avoided - and thus it creates the potential scenario where Cryptic is not making money. It's a business. Why shouldn't they make money? Why shouldn't they make a reasonable profit at that - both so they can reinvest in the game and so they can reward those that have invested in the game?
Still though, different things will bother or not bother folks in different ways. There were other things in that part two that I found more bothersome...and I would have no issue seeing the problem with what was said (no, no chuckle there).
Ehh, you do know STO was subscription based for 2 years before it became F2P, right?
Yes but why does that matter now? STO is now in the f2p payment model so any new player, like me as of last January, the old sub payment model has no bearing on the game for us, right?
And really that just confirms my comment in my other post about how MMO's are no longer subscription only, because STO started out that way and apparently could not make a profit with that payment model and decided to go free to play because they actually make more money as free to play.
Hrmmm, I'm trying to see the problem with what Geko said (ahem, yes - I chuckled in typing that) regarding a potential increase in the cost to upgrade DOFFs. If it is unduly cheaper for folks to go about something one way than the other, then that's generally going to be bad for the game.
And when the costs of something are so terrible, or the payout so abyssmal, it's even worse. The system in question usually ends up being completely ignored by the playerbase at large.
Case in point: crafting.
It's one thing to monetize a system. It's something else entirely to monetize it so heavily that players go out of their way to avoid said system.
What drives FTP is the need to make money. Not just the need to make more money. The global economy sucks. Most of the EU is over 12%+ unemployed. The US is only 7.6%, but even that is still 3% higher then we would want it to be. There's a growing number of people who just don't have an extra $15.00 a month - but they do have the free time to grind away.
The golden days of sub-based MMOs are behind us now. There's just too many things competing for the same entertainment dollar today. 8 years ago no one envisioned smart phones and tablets; and all the money spent on games for those items, and other APs, and even streaming services like Netflix - not to mention xbox 1-4, playstation 1-4, etc. There's just too many other places to put you entertainment dollar now. Even the mighty WoW is down to 8 million subscribers, and continuing to drop each quarter. MMOs are now competing with the entire internet, not just other MMOs.
Yes I totally understand this and that is why I made my original post. And as I said in that post the days of the sub only MMO are gone...and yes they DO make more money from free to play then they do with a sub only game because they can not get enough players to make the sub payment model work anymore. Even 2 million like STO is supposed to have is not enough even if everyone was paying $15 bucks a month. They can make more money much quicker selling pay to win items like starships, etc in their store...way more money.
I can guarantee you if any developer launches with a sub, they will also have a store in their game they would be incredibly stupid not to because they will make a lot more money, even more then the subs get them.
Hrmmm, I'm trying to see the problem with what Geko said (ahem, yes - I chuckled in typing that) regarding a potential increase in the cost to upgrade DOFFs. If it is unduly cheaper for folks to go about something one way than the other, then that's generally going to be bad for the game.
With things like the Dil/Zen Exchange, yes - folks can avoid "paying" to get things...but somebody still had to buy the Zen.
With the DOFFs though - the Zen aspect could be completely avoided - and thus it creates the potential scenario where Cryptic is not making money. It's a business. Why shouldn't they make money? Why shouldn't they make a reasonable profit at that - both so they can reinvest in the game and so they can reward those that have invested in the game?
Still though, different things will bother or not bother folks in different ways. There were other things in that part two that I found more bothersome...and I would have no issue seeing the problem with what was said (no, no chuckle there).
Look what they did with the crafting system trying to make money from crafting by making things cost so much Dilithium that now not a lot of people craft stuff outside of Aegis set gear. If they are going to make some things cost Dilithium they should make it cost a much smaller amount not so much. The Doffing system cost so much Dilithium that it is not worth it and a lot of people don't use it. What is better trying to make a large profit and so many people not buying only a small few or trying to make a small profit and much more people buy it?
Comments
No, I think it's worth noting Cryptic think a good way to upgrade DOFF is to buy Cstore pack. Which are, expect for the unique abilities, almost the same than any DOFF pack, containing a lot of white, and a few unco or better.
I must admit, I laughed reading that.
They could change the whole upgrade doff so it cost zen or real money everytime, it wouldn't change the fact the Cstore pack do not upgrade anything, and the drop rate of rare is low. The only thing interesting about those is the unique and sometimes almost OP abilities, and the rare ship (when there is one).
They could have focus on that and kept the price as they were, because they won't sell more because of that. In fact, they could sell even less, as some people (like myself) have simply stopped DOFFing because of the new prices, and I don't need DOFF pack anymore.
So people who've paid for subscriptions aren't entitled to complain ?
Perhaps cryptic should limit you freeloaders to the test server as paying customers EXPECT to be buying a working product.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Sorry but the "this game is free" argument is slowly diminishing. They are finding more and more ways to get your money. People are spending 5-10 times more nowadays in these so called F2P games than they ever did in a game that has a monthly sub. Now that is sickening.
For the vast, vast, vast majority of players who don't PvP the idea that you need anything from the C-Store is foolishness. When they buy things from the C-Store they do so for vanity, not necessity. And I will only touch on the idea that the average player can make 240,000 Dilithium per month just playing the game, and thus have some 1,600-2,000 free Zen every single month to do with as they please. A $25.00 ship purchase a month isn't that expensive when you're only paying $7-$9.00 - which is less then you'd pay for a monthly subscription.
But if you aren't subbed you lose a bunch of perks and vet reward credit so relying just on the C-Store is paying more for less of an experience.
EDIT - Snip
They're paying because they're impatient. They'd rather pay money to get something NOW, rather than take it slower and build up dilithium. I can't say I'm any better, but it boils down to making a choice. Yeah, they make the paying option look enticing compared to the free one. At the end of the day, they're still a business, and in order to keep providing their services, Cryptic needs to make money. But you can still choose to go about it without paying anything.
With LOR we get:
1. Zen$; Romulan Survivor Duty Officer Pack
2. Random Zen$; Suliban Cell Ship
3. Random Chance for Romulan Boff ONLY in Taw/Command Center
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
How could they implement this along side their bread and butter lock box ships?
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
Sadly because MMO developers can make so much more cash from launching free to play with a cash shop the days of MMO's with sub only are pretty much done and over with so I either need to get back to grinding or pull out my credit card more often then I really should be. There is a reason most MMO's are free to play with a cash shop and that reason is they are MUCH more profitable that way, simple as that.
By having the DOff chain require several pieces you need to get from the lockboxes, instead of the complete ship. So no one will get lucky and get one with just one opened box. Now you'll need 10!
Umm sir.. you ned to have read the article yourself. The chnage on the doffs that your all in a lather about has allready happened, its allready in the game. (you didn't pay attention)
And yea, it is about monitization. It is about greed, and yes, IMO they do overcharge... for everything..
Charge more for a virtual model that cannot enjoy out side of the game etc, for more they you would pay a plastic kit of the same ship in 1/350 scale.
And ya'll fell for it.
No, and i doubt that there will ever be any...unfortunately there is little logic in actually implementing a 3rd to an already existing and older lockbox imo. 2 factions = 2 timeship designs.
Ehh, you do know STO was subscription based for 2 years before it became F2P, right?
But, I crash in sector space trying to load maps like 2 times out of 3. Before LoR I'd very rarely crash if ever.
Don't know how other people play it but I never upgrinded a single doff post the dil cost and any other dil changes they introduce will have the exact same effect.
It's funny how he talks about firstly making more people use by simplifying the HUD and secondly increasing the cost.
How about lowering the costs and make the rewards better?
You can have what, 300 of the best minds from your faction and they can't even put a hypo together without it costing dil? Really ?
You know I'd imagine a crew like that could make all kinds of things, customized modifers on weapons and hybrid consoles and what not.
The golden days of sub-based MMOs are behind us now. There's just too many things competing for the same entertainment dollar today. 8 years ago no one envisioned smart phones and tablets; and all the money spent on games for those items, and other APs, and even streaming services like Netflix - not to mention xbox 1-4, playstation 1-4, etc. There's just too many other places to put you entertainment dollar now. Even the mighty WoW is down to 8 million subscribers, and continuing to drop each quarter. MMOs are now competing with the entire internet, not just other MMOs.
Bleed Green and Gold
i'll make a proper feedback post when i have come down again... :mad: :mad: :mad:
Sounds like you should refrain altogether.
With things like the Dil/Zen Exchange, yes - folks can avoid "paying" to get things...but somebody still had to buy the Zen.
With the DOFFs though - the Zen aspect could be completely avoided - and thus it creates the potential scenario where Cryptic is not making money. It's a business. Why shouldn't they make money? Why shouldn't they make a reasonable profit at that - both so they can reinvest in the game and so they can reward those that have invested in the game?
Still though, different things will bother or not bother folks in different ways. There were other things in that part two that I found more bothersome...and I would have no issue seeing the problem with what was said (no, no chuckle there).
Yes but why does that matter now? STO is now in the f2p payment model so any new player, like me as of last January, the old sub payment model has no bearing on the game for us, right?
And really that just confirms my comment in my other post about how MMO's are no longer subscription only, because STO started out that way and apparently could not make a profit with that payment model and decided to go free to play because they actually make more money as free to play.
And when the costs of something are so terrible, or the payout so abyssmal, it's even worse. The system in question usually ends up being completely ignored by the playerbase at large.
Case in point: crafting.
It's one thing to monetize a system. It's something else entirely to monetize it so heavily that players go out of their way to avoid said system.
Yes I totally understand this and that is why I made my original post. And as I said in that post the days of the sub only MMO are gone...and yes they DO make more money from free to play then they do with a sub only game because they can not get enough players to make the sub payment model work anymore. Even 2 million like STO is supposed to have is not enough even if everyone was paying $15 bucks a month. They can make more money much quicker selling pay to win items like starships, etc in their store...way more money.
I can guarantee you if any developer launches with a sub, they will also have a store in their game they would be incredibly stupid not to because they will make a lot more money, even more then the subs get them.
Look what they did with the crafting system trying to make money from crafting by making things cost so much Dilithium that now not a lot of people craft stuff outside of Aegis set gear. If they are going to make some things cost Dilithium they should make it cost a much smaller amount not so much. The Doffing system cost so much Dilithium that it is not worth it and a lot of people don't use it. What is better trying to make a large profit and so many people not buying only a small few or trying to make a small profit and much more people buy it?
Perhaps not in dollars - but you would have to grind inorder just to play - say they charge 50 dilithium per min of play
So they could charge players 3000 refined dilithium per hour to play - I think that would be similar to some of those Asian MMO's
If you wanted to play more than what you could refine you would have to buy zen to convert to dilithium.
I think this is the way things are going.