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Question on shields. Try not to flame me too hard.
hereticknight085
Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
So comparing the MACO resilient shield array mk XII to Elite fleet shields, which of the two is better and why?
Dumb question, I know, but I am curious, since I've heard mixed reviews on mk XII Elite Fleet Shields.
My next question would be: Is it really worth it to get Elite Fleet Shields?
Thanks in advance to helpful answers, and *facepalm* in advance to flames.
Dumb question, I know, but I am curious, since I've heard mixed reviews on mk XII Elite Fleet Shields.
My next question would be: Is it really worth it to get Elite Fleet Shields?
Thanks in advance to helpful answers, and *facepalm* in advance to flames.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. 
Post edited by hereticknight085 on
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The adapted macro shields are the next best shields, plasmodic leach means that there isn't really any point to using macro resilient shields anymore.
By mixed reviews I mean some people say they're useful, others say they're not worth the cost, and a few say they're OP.
Do you value resistance over set bonuses.
If you like PVE then the MACO res shield has almost the same shield res to plasma as the elite fleet res B.
However, in general fights against non borg or other players, the fleet res B shield has more resistance. If you like the MACO shield power boost, just get a plasmonic leech console.
The MACO engine is lame, as it only gives a scaling bonus and in now way compares to the power boost given by either the MACO shield or the plasmonic leech console. You would be better off with a Breen, Borg, Jem, or Nukara engine as these give flat bonuses regardless of current power levels.
Also with regards to set bonuses, i find usually you can equal or beat the majority of them buy just combining good items from each set that buff whatever focus you have for your ship. Most set bonuses are lacklustre at best except for certain builds - e.g. Jem Mk XII for polaron users, Adapted MACO for torp boats, etc etc.
The best set bonuses imo are the Borg space set. If you have a high repair skill and shield skill as standard, its fantastic.
I can't answer that for you. At least not easily. But I can show you how to get the answer yourself.
Step one is to decide if your ship needs shields or not. Think about it, weigh the pros and cons and choose. Shields. Yes or no?
Step two, if you've decided yes, is to take those 'pro shield' factors and give them a priority ranking based on what you expect the shields to do and the circumstances under which they will have to do them.
Do the SAME THING for your engine and deflector. I'll wait.
(hours pass)
Okay then! Having done this you should have a partial profile of your ship. You should have a clear picture of what your power settings will need to be, of how fast and nimble your ship is expected to be (or not to be), and how you intend to handle incoming fire. Incoming FIRE, not damage. Two very different things.
Once you have those things, and understand the difference between incoming fire and damage you can choose the pieces you need.
By way of example, I'll never put Elite Shields on my BOP. Big waste. I would never gain the benefit those shields have to offer. They ROCK on my carriers though.
Once you lay it out that way it becomes very easy. Seems trite but there it is. If you can't seem to find a combination that fits what you've laid out it may be because the parameters you've chosen just don't fit together in the first place.
For example, "I'm going to avoid most of the incoming damage by using a fast engine, high engine power setting and just out maneuvering my opponents. I'll have the zippiest Galaxy EVER!!". Okay that may not work. No pieces will really satisfy that. Now if you were going to maximize shield power for resists and high aux for resists and heals, well you may have something there. And you may want some flavor of elite gear.
Cheers happy flying!
Like Thissler said, it comes down to your defense of choice.
If you're going to be zooming around with high speed/Defense or making hit and run attacks, MACO may be the better option since the Fleet Shields won't really have the time to start stacking the Res procs. However, if you're staying in the fight for more than like 5 seconds, Fleet Shields really start to shine.
But if you're using Leech, you've got to decide which you like more - MACO and Leech don't stack.
The Elite Fleet Shields adapt, so you'll quickly get a 20% resist to whatever's shooting you (if it isn't making enough shots to maintain the ten stacks of 2% resist, it probably isn't doing enough damage to be a threat in the first place). Not to mention that they have an extra 15% resist to three damage types. ResB I think is better, because it resists the three favorite energy types (antiproton, plasma, disruptor).
Well by flaming I meant people calling me a stupid noob for not knowing. And you'd still be surprised -.-
Well I generally tend to run builds that are designed for sustained combat. I don't tend to run hit and fade tactics other than with my Scimitar, and my cruisers are generally built to last, as are my escorts. I tend to not do the run and gun style, I tend to do the wade in and beat the TRIBBLE out of whatever happens to be nearest.
Hopefully that helps answer the question? Granted thisslers post was incredibly helpful, and I would like to know what's better suited for what kind of roles in general, like what's a better shield for tanking/sustained combat, what's a better shield for hit and run, what's a better shield for... you get the idea.
From a pvp standpoint, the fleet shield gets stronger the longer you last. Its a teamwork, cross healing shield.
Well here's a couple more "for instances".
Say you have a cruiser. And you're an engineer. And you're a power fiend, as engineers are likely to be. You've rightfully realized that you're a big fat target no matter WHAT you do. You're going to get hit often and hopefully for long periods of time. Your shield modifier isn't great, you have some good hull/shield heals and resists available to you. Your aux and shield power is likely to be high whenever you need it to be. What do?
Well Omega is out. The movement bonus isn't enough to keep you from being hit. Maco power bonus for an engineer isn't that desirable either. The bonus from Borg could be nice, but the shield cap is low and it isn't resilient. Well how about a higher cap Elite Shield possibly with a bit of regen?
Well that will work. With a huge hull to start with you don't worry about bleed as much. You have a lower shield mod so you want a higher initial shield facing to manage the alpha. With the resists that you will be able to maintain in a cruiser you will have plenty of time, in theory, for the extra resists from this type of shield to max out.
In your science ship you will also get hit quite a bit. But you have a great shield mod. But you have a sad cause you have a dinky hull. Grab an elite shield with resilience to help you manage all the bleed damage. Could that Omega set be really nice here though? Sure it could. You could spec to make that anchor VERY painful. And most Sci ships are zippy enough where they can use enhanced movement to ruin an escorts day, or outrange a cruiser. So here you make a choice; avoidance or resistance?
So there you have three instances of non cloaking combat (sustained) and three different answers to what the best shields would be based on how the ship is expected to handle incoming fire and the anticipated damage.
Cheers!
EDIT: One of the many things I've left out that may not be that obvious is the many ways besides actual ship movement that players use to control incoming fire. Perhaps the science ship is going to use jam sensors when he sees the alpha coming. Aceton beam, sub nuc, and repulsors are all ways to accomplish the same goal; mitigating damage. I've just not dealt with all of them individually. You'd need to recognize them in your build and select the proper engine and deflector to support that (and consoles!) as well as the shield. There's many details involved and you need to intimately know your ship to make the choices.
Fleet Shields:
- A tank/healer pretty much without a doubt Fleet Shields.
- Pretty much any form of ship that tends to stick in the fight for long periods of time. (No cloakers?)
Hit'n Run cloakers, not too much sense to use fleet shields as the adapt stuff needs to adapt first, and by the time taht happened you already cloaked back up.
See my point?
M.a.c.o:
- 10% base resist, good shield cap and resilient shield. Good overall shield. +10 to all subsystems. However since we can all use Plasmonic now I think fleet shields + plasmonic is way better now. (Oh plasmonic and maco stuff doesnt stack either so decision is easily made here)
Adapted Maco (KHG) is Ok, high cap, but lacks any form of real resistance. You gotta find a way to make that placate be of any use. Well, there is a use. Again Hit'n runers can favor with this shield, when it placates you cant be hit for a second and breaks all tractors etc. (Hence good for hit'n run) On top of that, after the placate your enemy has like -20% acc to you so which is also some form of 'resist' i suppose effecively.
Dont go with Regenerative shields unless you PVE, pretty much that.
Resilient versus Covariant depends on your hull hitpoints and resistance I guess, you could get away with Normal covariants if you got plenty of what I just said.
I guess you pretty much have an idea now on what to take? kkthx next thread please.
Maybe on the PvE forums
Hail PvPeeps!
Your never going to get flamed for asking a question. Unless there is some hint of troll intent implied. lol
I have heard there is some issues with Leech and Maco comboed... that may factor in.
Honestly IMO and I am one of the few that share it... your shield doesn't matter a whole bunch.
Resilient is very popular right now in general as it will reduce the amount of bleed through you take... IMO though this is only going to save your bacon in the odd case where you are being focused so hard that a few thousand extra hull points would make the difference. Honestly if you are getting focused that hard that often your tactics are likely to blame as the only people that tend to get that much focus fire all the time are either high threats or no threats. Being picked on for being dangerous or viewed as the weak link.
Pretty much any shield that reduces all energy dmg is going to be a good option... honestly even the Jem H shield is a good option.. it has 10% dmg reduction and its resistant.
What will matter more will be insuring a always on high shield resist number in your build and having a few ways to regen hull hit points.
Emergency Power to Shields... best case you should be keeping this up all the time... either with Damage control doffs or Aux to Bat Tech doffs... or simply with 2 copies. It provides % resist on its own and by raising your shield power it will provide yet more resist... and some more regen.
Transfer Shield Strength... is a great way to throw a hot regen on your shield it also provides a small amount of resist... and you can even use it on a teammate if the situation arises.
Shield Battaries... A simple way to give you a great resist boost through maxing your shield power for 10-20s... if you are not speced into battaries you should be.
On the resistant 5% bleed vs other options and there 10% bleed... if you are planning to run an Omega or Borg shield or some other no resilient... be prepared for it. Run a bit more armour. Neutronium is the best bet all round as it protects you against every possible dmg type. Think of it this way if you run a Maco Resilient shield but run very little armour you take a good hit from that extra 5% bleed... however if you run say a borg Shield and run 2 neutronium armours... the amount of dmg you end up taking to your hull is likely going to be pretty much even.
To sum it up my advice is have 2-3 shields in your inventory and switch out now and then as many shields have advantages vs specific builds. Just be prepared to swap a boff if you need to support that shield with a slightly different defense layout... and have perhaps a few armour options ready to swap depending on what shield your running.
In the first example the Borg Assimilated Set altogether shines brightly. You do not NEED a big Cap when you can heal back your entire shield facings in the blink of an eye due to proc and Shields HoTs like Transfer Shield Strength. Huge shield Caps in this game are often worthless because you cannot heal them back up fast enough to take advantage of them and most serious enemies strip the entire cap faster than you can blink. With the Borg Set you get a Tractor Beam (Handy much) and fast hitting shield regen + shield hardening effects + hull heal and hull hardening effects. A good cruiser with an Engineer captain (totally a waste of time if you ask me but if you insist upon the Uber Tank... then so be it) can hull tank so well that worrying endlessly about your shields is really taking your mind off of the important task at hand... Keeping your hull together. You can stack so much resistance and heal so fast on the hull as to make most incoming DAMAGE effectively negative. Even as a Tactical Captain in a Tactical Odyssey I can quickly regen from around 10% hull and 0 shields back to full in both so fast it would make your head spin and I am NOT set up as a Tank in that build.
For a Science ship the MACO shield is quite excellent because it really helps to protect you hull and with the shield modifier of a Science Vessel you will see some nice Cap on it to boot. Also with more extensive access to Transfer Shield Strength + Emergency Power to Shields you can harden that thing massively. Here Elite Shield's resistance could become quickly redundant but the extra power from the MACO shield could help boost up your sub systems without making you sacrifice a console slot which could be very important depending on build. Throw in the Adapted MACO Engine and Deflector (especially if you are a drain boat) or the Assimilated Engine and Deflector and you have a mean machine.
I just wanted to say... Oddly... I actually agree with your opinion on this a bit. I mean it certainly factors in but... Let's be frank: Your shields are not going to survive long against anything that is really going to be a problem to begin with. If you cannot keep your hull alive or simply make sure your opponent cannot land damage on you then you are going to be popping a lot no matter WHAT flimsy shield you have.
That is what I love about the 3 piece Assimilated Set so much... It basically treats the shield like what it is... Just a flimsy sometimes barrier that you should not be focusing on. It is very anti-Trek but it is the way STO works currently.
Just as a point to bring up: There's no real 'issue' with Leech and MACO, they changed it so that MACO and leech cannot stack together.
I tend to think more about potential set bonuses or secondary goodies the shield provides. I also have a strange obsession in general for Aegis Engines providing the +5% Defense that I tend to get 2pc bonuses from the Deflector/Shields.
One of my best "tanking" (ie trolling/surviving) boats was a Mirror Vor'cha that was sporting Breen Shields and didn't run TT. It was an attrition build for Ker'rat or CnH. The rise in popularity of AtB neutered it though.
Don't forget the T2 Nukara passive that enhances shield penetration damage. You've also got DEM doing it's additional shield penetrating damage. Some folks will even take the 2.5% proc on the Omega Grav Amp (I prefer it on Torp boats where it's 5%).
I would especially like to thank Thissler, antoniosalieri, and virusdancer for their very in-depth and well thought out replies. Definitely gave me a new PoV to look from.