FYI, there are no 'villain' factions in Star Trek. There are different civilizations and different societies that have different values.
As the Star Trek tv series and movies progressed the KDF went from cookie cutter hollywood bad guys to a rich and complex society with different ideals than the Federation, which doesn't invalidate them on every level just because they are different. No society is perfect, certainly not the Federation.
I completely agree in terms of the KDF not being so called bad guys or villains. In fact I think that is part of the OP's issue - it's obvious to me he sees the FED faction as "good" and the KDF as "bad" which is an extremely narrow and limited perception IMO.
This kind of misperception of the faction reminds me of when I see FED fans complaining that the KDF fights dishonorably and that they don't live by their own honor code. IMO they don't actually understand Klingon concepts of honor, it has nothing to do with human ideas of earth type chivalry where every opponent is treated equally. In my view of the Klingon warrior mind set it is never assumed by default that an alien opponent is worthy of being treated as an equal - that has to be proven first on a case by case basis. Until that right is earned - alien species are simply prey for the predator and are treated as such.
With the way the Federation behaved towards the KDF in TNG and DS9 added to what happened in the STO storyline, the Federation has left them unsupported, snubbed, and on more than one occasion outright back stabbed so why would the KDF ever trust or treat them with any respect ever again?
That's my take on the Klingon experience and why I deleted my character at level 3.
As a long-time trekkie I'm more than a little bit fond of the Federation. But I thought I'd give the Klingons a try to see their stuff after having played through (and enjoyed) the Romulan and Federation content.
Eeek.
Even in the intro video, watching Federation ships been gleefully blown up was a turn off.
The Klingon intro was well crafted and it was very interesting to see melee combos - curiously absent from the other faction intros - but the whole Klingon faction seems to have been crafted as enemies of and hating the Federation.
I'd have found a quest in the intro to punch babies in the face only slightly less offensive than blowing up Federation ships.
In every other online game with a "baddies" faction like this from an established IP, they don't focus so much on the badness of the baddies. The game tries to introduce them in a way that gives players something to relate to, that they can sympathise with. The obvious "good" thing about Klingons is their sense of honour and a storyline revolving around that could have been a nice hook to draw players in - especially if it didn't pit players against the Federation right from the start.
Klingons look like they have some interesting ships but based on that starting experience, as a Trekkie I have to pass. Even though I enjoyed both the Romulan and Federation storylines I don't want to see any more of the Klingon one.
My highest level character is a KDF at level 50. Originally I started a Fed like everyone else. All the senseless killing by the Federation on their missions turned me off to the federation.
I was wanting to play a Romulan anyway. I painted my Fed ship green and pretended I was in the Romulan Star Empire, because then the senseless destruction made more sense. I started playing the KDF side more, because the storyline of blowing everything up made more sense in terms of the KDF's culture. Have you not watched a single Star Trek movie or show? How many times have the Klingons tried to blow up Kirk? It's what they do. Back in the days of no Klingon content I did much PVP.
Why didn't you delete your Fed at level 3? If I was to follow your logic I would have just deleted the Fed character.
Let's put it this way: If you are trying to find the Klingon from DS9 and TNG, then you will only find them in later stages.
That being said, for many others who grew up on TOS and still play KDF, they know exactly what they are asking for - and is not asking for a Worf's version of Klingon. If anything, the TNG Klingon is not klingon to them.
in a lot of western society in the here and now there is a concept called "chivalry" which is really a bit of a myth caused by the writing of a bunch of 12-16th century mosty french writers and poets.. the Chivalry at one point ment the guys that owned armor and weapons, and rode horses.. this was later romanticized, and romanticized yet more and more to the point that it bore absolutly no resemblance to reality.. ((go read some of the riginal prose concerning King arthur... pretty gastly stuff when you get down to it.. them fella's were just flat mean by todays standards)
The big disconnect here it tying of romantic notions of "Chivalry" to the concepts of "honor"
A word which has had very differnt meaning depending apon which culture you look at.
In modern meanings "Honorable" behaivior typically means "playing fair" Where apon the Miltary concept of Honor is tied more to doing ones duty to the best of ones ability and not making war on non-combattants... which by the way is rather difficult.. area of effect weapons tike bombs, artillery shells, and and mines cant tell the difference between a civilian and a soldier... None the less, a soldier of Honor does at least make the attept to not involve non-combattants (ie civilians) in the fighting if at all possible..
now the "Klingon" concept of honor does not nessesarily involve preventing non-military casualties.. The Klingon honor concept involves doing one duty to conclude the actuall fighting as soon as possible.. and if civillian deaths accelerate an end to the actuall fighting then it is incorporated in war plans.
Well war is nasty business. But then to quote George S Patton "Its not a soldiers job to die for his country, but to make the other TRIBBLE. die for HIS country.. Klingons would have great admiration for George. There is honor in a hard fought battle, but there's even more honor in victory, though easy victories do not mesuarble increase ones actuall honor. But then Klingons (if you've watched DS-9) tend to look for the difficult battles so they can accrue the greater honor. On accasion a little to much so..to the point of risking over all victory in the war... They can get a bit carried away sometimes.. I recall some stories from next gen and ds-9 where federation personell got a bit carried away also...
As has been noted in this thread and others.. niether society is perfect. Klingons do have a tendency toward excessive bllod lust.. by federation standards, but compared to the jem'Hadar and even the Cardassians they're almost the examplar of military restraint!
There are lines even a Klingon will not cross.. And your average Klingon warrior isn't exactly thrilled with the idea of wholesale slaughter of Civilians... They'll follow orders to do so...and its much easier for them if the civilians try to fight. But they still don't like it, if for no other reason that it's not a worthy test of a warrior.
Smething to bear in mind.
And please to remeber, the Klingon happen to think THEY are the good guys. And recall also the war brtween the federation and the Klingons in STo was caused by the federation ignoring Klingon evidence the the Gorn star kindom had been compramised by the Undine.
The Empire chose to act while from the Empire view the Federation waffled on its treaty obligation and in fact condemed the Empire for unwarrented agression. Now, turns out the klingons were correct, the Undine had indeed replaced the leadership of the Gorn Kingdom.
The war ended quickly as the Klingons enguaged in what amounted to a lightning fast surgical strike that took out the Undine imposters (much to the chagrin of the rest of the Gorn!) Now, today, the Gorn are autonomous under the Empire and still have thier own fleet, and serve beside the warriors of the KDF..
No apology has been forthcoming from the Federation for what amounts to a hidious diplomatic failure, Intellegence failure, and failure of Honor on the part of the Federation..
While Jm'pc might not be the finest chancellor to ever head the high council by his lights.. (and those of the rest of the allied klingon polities) going to a war footing with the federation is entirrly justified..
The Federation failed to honor a treaty obligation, and then refused to admit that it had erred. I could easily write a story that would end the war between the Klingon Empire and the Federation. But for the story to work from the Klingon point of view the Federation must admit openly and freely that it erred. And more importantly must not only apologize to the Empire, but to the Gorn also. (there are canon reasons to belive that the gorn and the federation had numerous mutual defence and economic treaties in place..) The Federtaion failed to come to the aid of the Gorn Kingdom ina time of its direst need and condemded the Klingons who did.
So now we have a war between the two largest powers in the Alpha Quadrant that should have never been.. The Klingons from thier point of view are entirely justified. The Federation posured indignation as if the Empire should have sought the permission of the federation. For all the bombast on either side the federation, as they say "screwed the ppoch" on this one.
Nor is the war entirely popular within the empire, and apparently not within the federation..there is a basis to end the war.. And if you look at the KDF tutorial missions apparently Section 31 is entirely aware of this and in the tutorial actually assist the player in uncovering a fairly significant security threat against the Empire. SO there is "back Channel" diplomacy going on.. Wouldn't it be funny if avowed federation super patriot Franklin Drake is the catalyst that ends the federation Klingon war...
It's important to look at the story it's self with the greater story. And a note to the OP.. I recall a number of Federation missions where the player as a federation captain performs a little whole sale slaughter of Klingon ships...(nor are these early mission particularly difficult!!)
in a lot of western society in the here and now there is a concept called "chivalry" which is really a bit of a myth caused by the writing of a bunch of 12-16th century mosty french writers and poets.. the Chivalry at one point ment the guys that owned armor and weapons, and rode horses.. this was later romanticized, and romanticized yet more and more to the point that it bore absolutly no resemblance to reality.. ((go read some of the riginal prose concerning King arthur... pretty gastly stuff when you get down to it.. them fella's were just flat mean by todays standards)
The big disconnect here it tying of romantic notions of "Chivalry" to the concepts of "honor"
A word which has had very differnt meaning depending apon which culture you look at.
In modern meanings "Honorable" behaivior typically means "playing fair" Where apon the Miltary concept of Honor is tied more to doing ones duty to the best of ones ability and not making war on non-combattants... which by the way is rather difficult.. area of effect weapons tike bombs, artillery shells, and and mines cant tell the difference between a civilian and a soldier... None the less, a soldier of Honor does at least make the attept to not involve non-combattants (ie civilians) in the fighting if at all possible..
now the "Klingon" concept of honor does not nessesarily involve preventing non-military casualties.. The Klingon honor concept involves doing one duty to conclude the actuall fighting as soon as possible.. and if civillian deaths accelerate an end to the actuall fighting then it is incorporated in war plans.
Well war is nasty business. But then to quote George S Patton "Its not a soldiers job to die for his country, but to make the other TRIBBLE. die for HIS country.. Klingons would have great admiration for George. There is honor in a hard fought battle, but there's even more honor in victory, though easy victories do not mesuarble increase ones actuall honor. But then Klingons (if you've watched DS-9) tend to look for the difficult battles so they can accrue the greater honor. On accasion a little to much so..to the point of risking over all victory in the war... They can get a bit carried away sometimes.. I recall some stories from next gen and ds-9 where federation personell got a bit carried away also...
As has been noted in this thread and others.. niether society is perfect. Klingons do have a tendency toward excessive bllod lust.. by federation standards, but compared to the jem'Hadar and even the Cardassians they're almost the examplar of military restraint!
There are lines even a Klingon will not cross.. And your average Klingon warrior isn't exactly thrilled with the idea of wholesale slaughter of Civilians... They'll follow orders to do so...and its much easier for them if the civilians try to fight. But they still don't like it, if for no other reason that it's not a worthy test of a warrior.
Smething to bear in mind.
And please to remeber, the Klingon happen to think THEY are the good guys. And recall also the war brtween the federation and the Klingons in STo was caused by the federation ignoring Klingon evidence the the Gorn star kindom had been compramised by the Undine.
The Empire chose to act while from the Empire view the Federation waffled on its treaty obligation and in fact condemed the Empire for unwarrented agression. Now, turns out the klingons were correct, the Undine had indeed replaced the leadership of the Gorn Kingdom.
The war ended quickly as the Klingons enguaged in what amounted to a lightning fast surgical strike that took out the Undine imposters (much to the chagrin of the rest of the Gorn!) Now, today, the Gorn are autonomous under the Empire and still have thier own fleet, and serve beside the warriors of the KDF..
No apology has been forthcoming from the Federation for what amounts to a hidious diplomatic failure, Intellegence failure, and failure of Honor on the part of the Federation..
While Jm'pc might not be the finest chancellor to ever head the high council by his lights.. (and those of the rest of the allied klingon polities) going to a war footing with the federation is entirrly justified..
The Federation failed to honor a treaty obligation, and then refused to admit that it had erred. I could easily write a story that would end the war between the Klingon Empire and the Federation. But for the story to work from the Klingon point of view the Federation must admit openly and freely that it erred. And more importantly must not only apologize to the Empire, but to the Gorn also. (there are canon reasons to belive that the gorn and the federation had numerous mutual defence and economic treaties in place..) The Federtaion failed to come to the aid of the Gorn Kingdom ina time of its direst need and condemded the Klingons who did.
So now we have a war between the two largest powers in the Alpha Quadrant that should have never been.. The Klingons from thier point of view are entirely justified. The Federation posured indignation as if the Empire should have sought the permission of the federation. For all the bombast on either side the federation, as they say "screwed the ppoch" on this one.
Nor is the war entirely popular within the empire, and apparently not within the federation..there is a basis to end the war.. And if you look at the KDF tutorial missions apparently Section 31 is entirely aware of this and in the tutorial actually assist the player in uncovering a fairly significant security threat against the Empire. SO there is "back Channel" diplomacy going on.. Wouldn't it be funny if avowed federation super patriot Franklin Drake is the catalyst that ends the federation Klingon war...
It's important to look at the story it's self with the greater story. And a note to the OP.. I recall a number of Federation missions where the player as a federation captain performs a little whole sale slaughter of Klingon ships...(nor are these early mission particularly difficult!!)
Khemaraa Sends.
This is a very good post, and illustrates the Klingon view of things very well.
Comments
As the Star Trek tv series and movies progressed the KDF went from cookie cutter hollywood bad guys to a rich and complex society with different ideals than the Federation, which doesn't invalidate them on every level just because they are different. No society is perfect, certainly not the Federation.
I completely agree in terms of the KDF not being so called bad guys or villains. In fact I think that is part of the OP's issue - it's obvious to me he sees the FED faction as "good" and the KDF as "bad" which is an extremely narrow and limited perception IMO.
This kind of misperception of the faction reminds me of when I see FED fans complaining that the KDF fights dishonorably and that they don't live by their own honor code. IMO they don't actually understand Klingon concepts of honor, it has nothing to do with human ideas of earth type chivalry where every opponent is treated equally. In my view of the Klingon warrior mind set it is never assumed by default that an alien opponent is worthy of being treated as an equal - that has to be proven first on a case by case basis. Until that right is earned - alien species are simply prey for the predator and are treated as such.
With the way the Federation behaved towards the KDF in TNG and DS9 added to what happened in the STO storyline, the Federation has left them unsupported, snubbed, and on more than one occasion outright back stabbed so why would the KDF ever trust or treat them with any respect ever again?
My highest level character is a KDF at level 50. Originally I started a Fed like everyone else. All the senseless killing by the Federation on their missions turned me off to the federation.
I was wanting to play a Romulan anyway. I painted my Fed ship green and pretended I was in the Romulan Star Empire, because then the senseless destruction made more sense. I started playing the KDF side more, because the storyline of blowing everything up made more sense in terms of the KDF's culture. Have you not watched a single Star Trek movie or show? How many times have the Klingons tried to blow up Kirk? It's what they do. Back in the days of no Klingon content I did much PVP.
Why didn't you delete your Fed at level 3? If I was to follow your logic I would have just deleted the Fed character.
That being said, for many others who grew up on TOS and still play KDF, they know exactly what they are asking for - and is not asking for a Worf's version of Klingon. If anything, the TNG Klingon is not klingon to them.
in a lot of western society in the here and now there is a concept called "chivalry" which is really a bit of a myth caused by the writing of a bunch of 12-16th century mosty french writers and poets.. the Chivalry at one point ment the guys that owned armor and weapons, and rode horses.. this was later romanticized, and romanticized yet more and more to the point that it bore absolutly no resemblance to reality.. ((go read some of the riginal prose concerning King arthur... pretty gastly stuff when you get down to it.. them fella's were just flat mean by todays standards)
The big disconnect here it tying of romantic notions of "Chivalry" to the concepts of "honor"
A word which has had very differnt meaning depending apon which culture you look at.
In modern meanings "Honorable" behaivior typically means "playing fair" Where apon the Miltary concept of Honor is tied more to doing ones duty to the best of ones ability and not making war on non-combattants... which by the way is rather difficult.. area of effect weapons tike bombs, artillery shells, and and mines cant tell the difference between a civilian and a soldier... None the less, a soldier of Honor does at least make the attept to not involve non-combattants (ie civilians) in the fighting if at all possible..
now the "Klingon" concept of honor does not nessesarily involve preventing non-military casualties.. The Klingon honor concept involves doing one duty to conclude the actuall fighting as soon as possible.. and if civillian deaths accelerate an end to the actuall fighting then it is incorporated in war plans.
Well war is nasty business. But then to quote George S Patton "Its not a soldiers job to die for his country, but to make the other TRIBBLE. die for HIS country.. Klingons would have great admiration for George. There is honor in a hard fought battle, but there's even more honor in victory, though easy victories do not mesuarble increase ones actuall honor. But then Klingons (if you've watched DS-9) tend to look for the difficult battles so they can accrue the greater honor. On accasion a little to much so..to the point of risking over all victory in the war... They can get a bit carried away sometimes.. I recall some stories from next gen and ds-9 where federation personell got a bit carried away also...
As has been noted in this thread and others.. niether society is perfect. Klingons do have a tendency toward excessive bllod lust.. by federation standards, but compared to the jem'Hadar and even the Cardassians they're almost the examplar of military restraint!
There are lines even a Klingon will not cross.. And your average Klingon warrior isn't exactly thrilled with the idea of wholesale slaughter of Civilians... They'll follow orders to do so...and its much easier for them if the civilians try to fight. But they still don't like it, if for no other reason that it's not a worthy test of a warrior.
Smething to bear in mind.
And please to remeber, the Klingon happen to think THEY are the good guys. And recall also the war brtween the federation and the Klingons in STo was caused by the federation ignoring Klingon evidence the the Gorn star kindom had been compramised by the Undine.
The Empire chose to act while from the Empire view the Federation waffled on its treaty obligation and in fact condemed the Empire for unwarrented agression. Now, turns out the klingons were correct, the Undine had indeed replaced the leadership of the Gorn Kingdom.
The war ended quickly as the Klingons enguaged in what amounted to a lightning fast surgical strike that took out the Undine imposters (much to the chagrin of the rest of the Gorn!) Now, today, the Gorn are autonomous under the Empire and still have thier own fleet, and serve beside the warriors of the KDF..
No apology has been forthcoming from the Federation for what amounts to a hidious diplomatic failure, Intellegence failure, and failure of Honor on the part of the Federation..
While Jm'pc might not be the finest chancellor to ever head the high council by his lights.. (and those of the rest of the allied klingon polities) going to a war footing with the federation is entirrly justified..
The Federation failed to honor a treaty obligation, and then refused to admit that it had erred. I could easily write a story that would end the war between the Klingon Empire and the Federation. But for the story to work from the Klingon point of view the Federation must admit openly and freely that it erred. And more importantly must not only apologize to the Empire, but to the Gorn also. (there are canon reasons to belive that the gorn and the federation had numerous mutual defence and economic treaties in place..) The Federtaion failed to come to the aid of the Gorn Kingdom ina time of its direst need and condemded the Klingons who did.
So now we have a war between the two largest powers in the Alpha Quadrant that should have never been.. The Klingons from thier point of view are entirely justified. The Federation posured indignation as if the Empire should have sought the permission of the federation. For all the bombast on either side the federation, as they say "screwed the ppoch" on this one.
Nor is the war entirely popular within the empire, and apparently not within the federation..there is a basis to end the war.. And if you look at the KDF tutorial missions apparently Section 31 is entirely aware of this and in the tutorial actually assist the player in uncovering a fairly significant security threat against the Empire. SO there is "back Channel" diplomacy going on.. Wouldn't it be funny if avowed federation super patriot Franklin Drake is the catalyst that ends the federation Klingon war...
It's important to look at the story it's self with the greater story. And a note to the OP.. I recall a number of Federation missions where the player as a federation captain performs a little whole sale slaughter of Klingon ships...(nor are these early mission particularly difficult!!)
Khemaraa Sends.
This is a very good post, and illustrates the Klingon view of things very well.