This is just a terrible idea. For one, if that is how you want run your fleet, go ahead, but don't suggest a system be implemented that all fleets would have to abide by.
First off, plenty of controls already in place (as have been mentioned already here) to keep from paying out to those who don't contribute. Secondly, if you recruited lazy people into your fleet, I am very sorry, but that's what you get. Should've played with and got to know the person before recruiting them. Or did your recruitment consist of spamming zone chat with 'join now!' messages? Welp, sorry if you let just anyone in that just anyone actually joined.
Not needed, horrible idea. Manage your fleet and recruit better.
Dude, if it were productive, and worth the effort, I would track you down and knock you on your TRIBBLE. (I could do it. I have the technology). However, I don't need to be physically intimidating in order to express my opinion of what I've observed of your personality. A personality you seem all too willing to share.
You're a tyrant, and want your goodies, and are more than willing to use buzzwords with positive connotations in order to get your way. You're not worth the effort I'd have to put in to be tough in front of you. So instead of thinking you're a badass for also being possibly thousands of miles away and able to get away with anything as well, maybe you should actually use that brain I'm seeing little evidence of you having. Be thankful no one sees you as worth that effort, because that's a sort of crazy no one should be begging to deal with.
You've already admitted that you didn't think this grand idea of yours through, and somehow you think we're supposed to like you, and respect the drivel you say?
You've tried to play yourself off as some sort of badass biker. For what reason is that relevant except to be intimidating? For all you know I'm your NSA case worker, and have been tracking you around the web for months, with the power of dropping a raid on you at a whim. So don't play tough yourself. You have no idea who is on the other end.
Do I need to whip out the Navy Seal copypasta to show my internet badassery, or are we done playing high school games?
You were the one who started your 1st post with insults and epitaphs of doom so who is the 3rd grader here. Also feel free to look me up anytime, email me and ill give you my address. Heck ill even meet you half way. So are we done now or do we have to roll around on the ground before we make nice?
This is just a terrible idea. For one, if that is how you want run your fleet, go ahead, but don't suggest a system be implemented that all fleets would have to abide by.
First off, plenty of controls already in place (as have been mentioned already here) to keep from paying out to those who don't contribute. Secondly, if you recruited lazy people into your fleet, I am very sorry, but that's what you get. Should've played with and got to know the person before recruiting them. Or did your recruitment consist of spamming zone chat with 'join now!' messages? Welp, sorry if you let just anyone in that just anyone actually joined.
Not needed, horrible idea. Manage your fleet and recruit better.
Yeah there were a few things I didn't think through with it. I'm not the fleet leader and only recruit those I team with but even then you get what you get. It just seems bad that few do the work and most kick back and I tried to come up with some way that would be fair to all unfortunately taxes aint it.
This thread is hilarious. I can't tell whether magnumstar is legit or just trolling now that he's managed to bring politics into this.
The solution is simple, magnumstar, if you would bother to read people's responses and comprehend them: If you want such a system, talk to your fleet leaders and institute it. If your fleet doesn't want it, join a fleet that has it or is willing to implement it.
You were the one who started your 1st post with insults and epitaphs of doom so who is the 3rd grader here. Also feel free to look me up anytime, email me and ill give you my address. Heck ill even meet you half way. So are we done now or do we have to roll around on the ground before we make nice?
Well, lets test this statement.
This is my first post in this thread:
A fleet that includes the OP would not be a fleet worth joining. I'd forego being in a fleet entirely and just play with my group of fleet friends w/o the fleet. Nothing a fleet offers is necessary, and many fleets are willing to sell items to others who are not in a fleet.
You want "union dues" (taxes) on your fellow fleet members? Take it to your fleet leadership, and be ready to suffer a tiny fleet, or a bunch of the fleet leaders laughing at you. The other fleets shouldn't have to conform to your messed up sense of "fairness".
"A fleet that includes the OP would not be a fleet worth joining."
This is a personal opinion and preference.
"I'd forego being in a fleet entirely and just play with my group of fleet friends w/o the fleet."
Also opinion, and a declaration of reaction to proposed action.
" Nothing a fleet offers is necessary, and many fleets are willing to sell items to others who are not in a fleet.
This is a fact.
"You want "union dues" (taxes) on your fellow fleet members?"
This is repeating your intent/idea.
"Take it to your fleet leadership, and be ready to suffer a tiny fleet, or a bunch of the fleet leaders laughing at you."
This is what you should have done according to most here, as well as an opinion of what I believe will be the result of you following through with this advice.
"The other fleets shouldn't have to conform to your messed up sense of "fairness"."
Other fleets members, and leaders, have already said they have no desire to support your idea, one going so far to say he would leave the fleet he leads if this ever came to fruition. So, this is an opinion supported by various testimonials found in this very thread.
No insults, and only premonitions of the doom of your idea.
_____________________________________________
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
Another internet tough guy quick to spout off insults at his computer miles away. Taxes also insure that no single person is paying for the streets we use, the bridges we drive over, the schools are kids attend, and other services we all here in America enjoy.
What about all of us that don't have kids?
Why should I pay taxes so other's rug rats can go to school?
Parents SHOULD have to individually pay to raise THEIR children.
It was THEIR decision to have them.
I don't get any benefit from them further overpopulating the planet and using up all the resources.
I applaud China's approach to enforced child restriction.
As for Fleet Taxes, If they can add some form of perk for the donations like they do now with Fleet credits that would work.
This thread is hilarious. I can't tell whether magnumstar is legit or just trolling now that he's managed to bring politics into this.
The solution is simple, magnumstar, if you would bother to read people's responses and comprehend them: If you want such a system, talk to your fleet leaders and institute it. If your fleet doesn't want it, join a fleet that has it or is willing to implement it.
That's it. Simple.
Politics wasn't my doing and yes I already come to the conclusion it wouldnt work even if just our fleet tried it. The main problem is folks do not want to be taxed ingame and I understand because we're taxed enough in the real world.
As for not following the posts, you mean those where I wasn't called a pinko, punk, greedy republicrat, or any number of other things. I didn't get a chance to respond much to those who had legitimate ideas or pointed out the flaws in my idea in a civil manner because I was too busy battling the forum bullies.
"A fleet that includes the OP would not be a fleet worth joining."
This is a personal opinion and preference.
"I'd forego being in a fleet entirely and just play with my group of fleet friends w/o the fleet."
Also opinion, and a declaration of reaction to proposed action.
" Nothing a fleet offers is necessary, and many fleets are willing to sell items to others who are not in a fleet.
This is a fact.
"You want "union dues" (taxes) on your fellow fleet members?"
This is repeating your intent/idea.
"Take it to your fleet leadership, and be ready to suffer a tiny fleet, or a bunch of the fleet leaders laughing at you."
This is what you should have done according to most here, as well as an opinion of what I believe will be the result of you following through with this advice.
"The other fleets shouldn't have to conform to your messed up sense of "fairness"."
Other fleets members, and leaders, have already said they have no desire to support your idea, one going so far to say he would leave the fleet he leads if this ever came to fruition. So, this is an opinion supported by various testimonials found in this very thread.
No insults, and only premonitions of the doom of your idea.
Ok so Im eating crow right now. I'm sorry I got you confused with another poster. I've had so many on here calling me names and hurling insults its hard to keep up with who said what. I don't mind someone pointing out my idea is bad but there's no need to call me names while doing it, those folks who do that are bullies and need confronted.
I just want to say that the OP's suggestion will never be implemented.
Cryptic have said on a number of occasions that it's up to the fleet leaders to manage there fleets and the people that are in them.
the fleet I'm an officer of has about 130 members last I checked. Of them, maybe 20 are on very regualry, and only a handful of us are on all the time. The three of us who are on the most, one a leader, another officer and myself, do a fair share of the work. But we don't give everyone else a hard time about it. we're not dicussing taxing them to fund what we want to do with the holdings. If they want to contribute, that's up to them. I'm not gonna start demanding them hand over D and ECs to make my job easier.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I've found that fleets have one of three troubles in terms of donations:
Fleet marks: Generally because people don't wanna DOFF enough, or they don't like grinding for them, when they would rather be grinding for dil or other marks.
Dil: Usually because few people actually want to donate it. I mean they rarely donate ANY dil, ever. This is probably the biggest hurtle for my own fleet most of the time. I mean, not giving dil to buy stuff is one thing (I have to do that all the time, it's never cheap) but never EVER donating even a single bit of dil...?
DOFFs: This used to have various reasons, nowadays, mostly because you need SO many of them that it's a pain to fill unless you have a huge amount of FCs or ECs to blow on buying them.
On the other end of the spectrum, many fleets I've noticed tend to almost always have an overabundance of one of those three things, most of the time being either dil or Fleet marks.
Nothing against you Magnumstar, I still prefer my idea back on page 1.
I have no issues with people who do not want to have anything to do with making the SB, that is their choice. However, those who only donate just enough to buy things and only care about having access to all the best stuff is irking, because they are only focused on themselves. I understand you need dil and FCs so you can actually buy things, but so many I notice only want the gear, and not the work.
In short, they don't care about the effort of getting there (hence why a lot of people seem to be ok with being a 'number' inside a large fleet, because it means they can buy any of the best stuff), and in turn, don't want to do the work to actually get the tiers on the SB/Embassy/Dil mine (which really hurts a great many fleets). They won't go out and grind FMs a lot, or gather or buy large amounts of dil, they will only do enough for what they want, and not a bit more.
Again, I understand people have other things they want to do, we all do. Doesn't necessarily mean they can just sit on their hands while others do all the stuff for the SB.
Also, something most people seem to have forgotten:
Just because someone joins your fleet (a total stranger, not someone you know), that doesn't mean they have 0 FCs. They could have 10 million FCs and 10 million dilithium, and 5 billion ECs for all you may or may not know, yet never spend a single bit of that on the fleet, only buying what they want from the fleet, and never doing a thing past it.
Sure, someone can join the fleet, a total stranger, and have 0 FCs, be brand new to the game, etc, but that someone would also probably be willing to actually earn his stuff more as well.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Also, something most people seem to have forgotten:
Just because someone joins your fleet (a total stranger, not someone you know), that doesn't mean they have 0 FCs. They could have 10 million FCs and 10 million dilithium, and 5 billion ECs for all you may or may not know, yet never spend a single bit of that on the fleet, only buying what they want from the fleet, and never doing a thing past it.
Sure, someone can join the fleet, a total stranger, and have 0 FCs, be brand new to the game, etc, but that someone would also probably be willing to actually earn his stuff more as well.
this is why in my fleet to get promoted to use the fleet store you have to donate enough to get 100k fleet credits..
after this they have complete use of the fleet stores..
this is to keep people from joining, grabbing everything they want and leaving.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I agree, if you want to join a fleet and do nothing toward it, that's your prerogative, but you won't last long in a great many fleets.
My fleet policy is simple. If you want the shiny you can grind for it like the rest of us. The more you grind, the more you can get subject to a minimum buy in. This is based on your overall holding contribution, not whatever you may currently have.
I kind of expect people in my fleet to want to do things, like STFs and Fleet stuff as a group chances are that if you're doing that you're going to contribute.
I don't see the need for this feature. If you don't like people not contributing to your fleet, make it a written policy, and when people don't pony up, then kick them out. Cryptic shouldn't implement features to do your job of maintaining your fleet for you, that should be your responsibility as fleet leader or officer.
The only dumb things I myself think about fleets is the whole need to purchase ship modules, I mean these are fleet ships not C-Store fleet ships right? I have to earn the right by contributing towards a fleet to get a fleet ship only to have to spend zen to get a open selection of these ships. Granted there are a slim few and I mean slim that don't require ship modules, but the ones that do are not really all that much better than an actual store ship. Fleet ships should be purchased through hard work and only hard work contributing to a fleet, and not with ship modules.
Secondly is the dilith mine provision, how dumb is it when you have to spend dilithium on a dilithium mine?
Now as for the fleet members contributing, well that you can kinda monitor by checking deposits in fleet bank and evaluate how many fleet creds members are earning after all!!! Based on those tools you can pretty much tell who is and isn't contributing, and decide if those who don't will ever earn a promotion or purchasing power or simply get the boot. Those who do are to be rewarded how you see fit.
I don't see the need for this feature. If you don't like people not contributing to your fleet, make it a written policy, and when people don't pony up, then kick them out. Cryptic shouldn't implement features to do your job of maintaining your fleet for you, that should be your responsibility as fleet leader or officer.
The problem is the Fleet is small to begin with and kicking folks really don't solve the problem since we are still in the same situation, although I agree with kicking them but it would still be just the few of us contributing.
I have already conceded that taxes is not the answer for the following reasons -
1. Low level toons may not have the dil or ec to pay the fees.
2. Multiple toons in the same fleet complicating fee assessment.
3. Corrupt leaders using the fees for personal use.
4. People do not like being taxed ingame and I understand that because we have to pay enough taxes in real life.
But there has to be some way to get the lazies to contribute. If they don't want anything from the Fleet stores or plan to visit the base ever then fine I can agree they don't need to contribute but if they plan on using any of this then they should help out.
The only dumb things I myself think about fleets is the whole need to purchase ship modules, I mean these are fleet ships not C-Store fleet ships right? I have to earn the right by contributing towards a fleet to get a fleet ship only to have to spend zen to get a open selection of these ships. Granted there are a slim few and I mean slim that don't require ship modules, but the ones that do are not really all that much better than an actual store ship. Fleet ships should be purchased through hard work and only hard work contributing to a fleet, and not with ship modules.
Secondly is the dilith mine provision, how dumb is it when you have to spend dilithium on a dilithium mine?
Now as for the fleet members contributing, well that you can kinda monitor by checking deposits in fleet bank and evaluate how many fleet creds members are earning after all!!! Based on those tools you can pretty much tell who is and isn't contributing, and decide if those who don't will ever earn a promotion or purchasing power or simply get the boot. Those who do are to be rewarded how you see fit.
Isn't the leaderboards too some indication who is contributing?
And once again we go back to the fact YOU NEED FLEET CREDITS TO BUY ANYTHING FROM THE FLEET STORES!
Got it? If anyone wants to buy anything they need to contribute with something because there is no way to get Fleet Credits otherwise and its not with Expertise they are going to be able to do that.
Unless they carry credits from other fleet. We need better logs.
not all ppl want fleet stuff or ships and may be why has any one though of this?
I can see some folks may not want the fleet store stuff but you still have to build the base. If they never plan to visit said base then great don't contribute but if they beam in and want to use the tailor or other stuff then it would be nice it they chipped in. And i'm not saying the have to open a vein and give me the last drop of blood, just a little help now and then would be appreciated.
I actually agree with the OP, but you won't get much support OP because this is an American based game and the ideology over there is that you should have total freedom and pay nothing to contribute to society. This is essentially an ideology arguement as to if people should be taxed our not.
In my Fleet, nobody can buy from provisioned stores unless they ask first and pay the subsequent cost of the item in Dilithium, for example if an item is 10,000 dil, they need to pay an additional 10,000 dil into a Fleet project. The system works very well because taxes are necessary and fundamental to the survival of a society.
It is a societies responsibility to look after the whole, rather then just you. That is what the Fleet bank is for and there is a monthly tax in our Fleet to contribute just 50,000 EC into the Fleet bank each month. The majority of my Fleet is British and we are more then happy to help each other out.
We use the money and do a pot each month in which the winner gets that or a lockbox ship if we have one to keep people interested.
I've found that fleets have one of three troubles in terms of donations:
Fleet marks: Generally because people don't wanna DOFF enough, or they don't like grinding for them, when they would rather be grinding for dil or other marks.
Dil: Usually because few people actually want to donate it. I mean they rarely donate ANY dil, ever. This is probably the biggest hurtle for my own fleet most of the time. I mean, not giving dil to buy stuff is one thing (I have to do that all the time, it's never cheap) but never EVER donating even a single bit of dil...?
DOFFs: This used to have various reasons, nowadays, mostly because you need SO many of them that it's a pain to fill unless you have a huge amount of FCs or ECs to blow on buying them.
On the other end of the spectrum, many fleets I've noticed tend to almost always have an overabundance of one of those three things, most of the time being either dil or Fleet marks.
Nothing against you Magnumstar, I still prefer my idea back on page 1.
I have no issues with people who do not want to have anything to do with making the SB, that is their choice. However, those who only donate just enough to buy things and only care about having access to all the best stuff is irking, because they are only focused on themselves. I understand you need dil and FCs so you can actually buy things, but so many I notice only want the gear, and not the work.
In short, they don't care about the effort of getting there (hence why a lot of people seem to be ok with being a 'number' inside a large fleet, because it means they can buy any of the best stuff), and in turn, don't want to do the work to actually get the tiers on the SB/Embassy/Dil mine (which really hurts a great many fleets). They won't go out and grind FMs a lot, or gather or buy large amounts of dil, they will only do enough for what they want, and not a bit more.
Again, I understand people have other things they want to do, we all do. Doesn't necessarily mean they can just sit on their hands while others do all the stuff for the SB.
Also, something most people seem to have forgotten:
Just because someone joins your fleet (a total stranger, not someone you know), that doesn't mean they have 0 FCs. They could have 10 million FCs and 10 million dilithium, and 5 billion ECs for all you may or may not know, yet never spend a single bit of that on the fleet, only buying what they want from the fleet, and never doing a thing past it.
Sure, someone can join the fleet, a total stranger, and have 0 FCs, be brand new to the game, etc, but that someone would also probably be willing to actually earn his stuff more as well.
I like your idea better too. I just wish I would have heard it sooner so I could have posted it instead of mine but then the read would have not been near as interesting.
I actually agree with the OP, but you won't get much support OP because this is an American based game and the ideology over there is that you should have total freedom and pay nothing to contribute to society. This is essentially an ideology arguement as to if people should be taxed our not.
In my Fleet, nobody can buy from provisioned stores unless they ask first and pay the subsequent cost of the item in Dilithium, for example if an item is 10,000 dil, they need to pay an additional 10,000 dil into a Fleet project. The system works very well because taxes are necessary and fundamental to the survival of a society.
It is a societies responsibility to look after the whole, rather then just you. That is what the Fleet bank is for and there is a monthly tax in our Fleet to contribute just 50,000 EC into the Fleet bank each month. The majority of my Fleet is British and we are more then happy to help each other out.
We use the money and do a pot each month in which the winner gets that or a lockbox ship if we have one to keep people interested.
You talking about not being greedy, paying your fair share, working together and being socially responsible. This is an alien language to most of the US players. They aren't just blinded by ideology but masses of corporate funded propaganda. Even though what you have said is completely reasonable some will view this as a communist plot.
A lot of fleets would have more progress if they worked together as suggested instead of the "**** you got mine" attitude. On the flip side there are players that are burnt out trying to contribute to these projects. If everyone in the fleet has the attitude that they want to contribute something, even minor, it makes short work of the projects.
Unless they carry credits from other fleet. We need better logs.
So what?
When players join another fleet with existing fleet credits, they shouldn't get to use those, but when they leave or are kicked from a fleet with unused fleet credits, that fleet doesn't lose a thing? In any scenario where players leave one fleet for another, someone's going to lose, either those players, or the fleet that drew them in.
Why should we care enough to regulate who gets the short end of the stick? Why are the efforts of the players slaving to build up Fleet B so much more valuable than the efforts of the player that already did his stint in Fleet A? Regardless of whether or not he's helping B. Oh sure, it's not strictly fair for the new fleet, but on a larger scale the way the system is set up is so that everyone gets exactly what they put in.
So if people aren't putting enough into your starbase, then perhaps there isn't enough to get out of it. Maybe we need more stuff to spend fleet credits on, things that don't require a secondary currency (dilithium) or provisioning or a tier being reached. Fleet batteries and hypoes. Maybe they need to stick a few ultra-rares in the purple Doff packs. (Works for lockboxes.) Or for all I care charge an FC admissions fee for use of the transwarp gate.
But I certainly don't see how indenturing fleet members everywhere, for the sake of some fleet leaders' personal ambitions for their starbases not being quite so much on themselves, as being at all a fairer system.
And as has already been pointed out, if it matters that much to fleets, setting a minimum FC level of say the cost of a fleet ship (200K) or tieing ranks to contribution tiers will go a long way.
But there has to be some way to get the lazies to contribute. If they don't want anything from the Fleet stores or plan to visit the base ever then fine I can agree they don't need to contribute but if they plan on using any of this then they should help out.
Well, then you should try setting up your ranking system better. You can at least limit some ranks from using the store, now I know you can't stop them from visiting the station, but they won't be able to use any facilities if you lock their rank. Then set a policy, when you donate X amount of goods, you can move into the rank that lets you buy stuff.
I actually agree with the OP, but you won't get much support OP because this is an American based game and the ideology over there is that you should have total freedom and pay nothing to contribute to society. This is essentially an ideology arguement as to if people should be taxed our not.
In my Fleet, nobody can buy from provisioned stores unless they ask first and pay the subsequent cost of the item in Dilithium, for example if an item is 10,000 dil, they need to pay an additional 10,000 dil into a Fleet project. The system works very well because taxes are necessary and fundamental to the survival of a society.
It is a societies responsibility to look after the whole, rather then just you. That is what the Fleet bank is for and there is a monthly tax in our Fleet to contribute just 50,000 EC into the Fleet bank each month. The majority of my Fleet is British and we are more then happy to help each other out.
We use the money and do a pot each month in which the winner gets that or a lockbox ship if we have one to keep people interested.
God Bless the Brits! These are folks who still have good sense. Your system of doing things is the best yet and every Fleet should be emulating it.
There are still folks in the USA who believe in cutting your own stick and helping others but they are mostly in the rural areas of the country or are mainly quiet about voicing their opinion as not receive any backlash.
I just hope by supporting me you don't get labeled with being a pinko, commie, punk, TRIBBLE from hell too.
Oh and can you steer me to the nearest British Fleet?
Well, then you should try setting up your ranking system better. You can at least limit some ranks from using the store, now I know you can't stop them from visiting the station, but they won't be able to use any facilities if you lock their rank. Then set a policy, when you donate X amount of goods, you can move into the rank that lets you buy stuff.
Thank you for the good advice. I wasn't aware you could lock them out of using base services, that's good to know. I am not a fleet leader so I have no control over anything but i'll be sure to pass along your suggestions.
You talking about not being greedy, paying your fair share, working together and being socially responsible. This is an alien language to most of the US players. They aren't just blinded by ideology but masses of corporate funded propaganda. Even though what you have said is completely reasonable some will view this as a communist plot.
A lot of fleets would have more progress if they worked together as suggested instead of the "**** you got mine" attitude. On the flip side there are players that are burnt out trying to contribute to these projects. If everyone in the fleet has the attitude that they want to contribute something, even minor, it makes short work of the projects.
That was exactly what I was talking about but it seems those things are out of style now and sociably unacceptable in modern US society, outdated concepts. And yes I have already been called a pinko, a commie, and other less endearing monikers.
Its sad to say but you're right, its all about what can I get and what can you/they/we do for me now. There are still quite a few of us over here that believe in the things you said above but we are slowly becoming less and less and tend to get shouted down or attacked by those who believe in the all for me attitude.
We do not need new taxes. What we need is better logs. Join date, purchase log, detail contribution log. That way we can reward your best fleet members and kick out leachers.
Comments
First off, plenty of controls already in place (as have been mentioned already here) to keep from paying out to those who don't contribute. Secondly, if you recruited lazy people into your fleet, I am very sorry, but that's what you get. Should've played with and got to know the person before recruiting them. Or did your recruitment consist of spamming zone chat with 'join now!' messages? Welp, sorry if you let just anyone in that just anyone actually joined.
Not needed, horrible idea. Manage your fleet and recruit better.
You were the one who started your 1st post with insults and epitaphs of doom so who is the 3rd grader here. Also feel free to look me up anytime, email me and ill give you my address. Heck ill even meet you half way. So are we done now or do we have to roll around on the ground before we make nice?
Yeah there were a few things I didn't think through with it. I'm not the fleet leader and only recruit those I team with but even then you get what you get. It just seems bad that few do the work and most kick back and I tried to come up with some way that would be fair to all unfortunately taxes aint it.
The solution is simple, magnumstar, if you would bother to read people's responses and comprehend them: If you want such a system, talk to your fleet leaders and institute it. If your fleet doesn't want it, join a fleet that has it or is willing to implement it.
That's it. Simple.
Well, lets test this statement.
This is my first post in this thread:
"A fleet that includes the OP would not be a fleet worth joining."
This is a personal opinion and preference.
"I'd forego being in a fleet entirely and just play with my group of fleet friends w/o the fleet."
Also opinion, and a declaration of reaction to proposed action.
" Nothing a fleet offers is necessary, and many fleets are willing to sell items to others who are not in a fleet.
This is a fact.
"You want "union dues" (taxes) on your fellow fleet members?"
This is repeating your intent/idea.
"Take it to your fleet leadership, and be ready to suffer a tiny fleet, or a bunch of the fleet leaders laughing at you."
This is what you should have done according to most here, as well as an opinion of what I believe will be the result of you following through with this advice.
"The other fleets shouldn't have to conform to your messed up sense of "fairness"."
Other fleets members, and leaders, have already said they have no desire to support your idea, one going so far to say he would leave the fleet he leads if this ever came to fruition. So, this is an opinion supported by various testimonials found in this very thread.
No insults, and only premonitions of the doom of your idea.
"Second star on the right, and straight on till morning."
U.S.S. Weatherlight
What about all of us that don't have kids?
Why should I pay taxes so other's rug rats can go to school?
Parents SHOULD have to individually pay to raise THEIR children.
It was THEIR decision to have them.
I don't get any benefit from them further overpopulating the planet and using up all the resources.
I applaud China's approach to enforced child restriction.
As for Fleet Taxes, If they can add some form of perk for the donations like they do now with Fleet credits that would work.
Politics wasn't my doing and yes I already come to the conclusion it wouldnt work even if just our fleet tried it. The main problem is folks do not want to be taxed ingame and I understand because we're taxed enough in the real world.
As for not following the posts, you mean those where I wasn't called a pinko, punk, greedy republicrat, or any number of other things. I didn't get a chance to respond much to those who had legitimate ideas or pointed out the flaws in my idea in a civil manner because I was too busy battling the forum bullies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVdR19E5mU
Ok so Im eating crow right now. I'm sorry I got you confused with another poster. I've had so many on here calling me names and hurling insults its hard to keep up with who said what. I don't mind someone pointing out my idea is bad but there's no need to call me names while doing it, those folks who do that are bullies and need confronted.
Anyway I apologize again for my mistake.
Cryptic have said on a number of occasions that it's up to the fleet leaders to manage there fleets and the people that are in them.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I've found that fleets have one of three troubles in terms of donations:
Fleet marks: Generally because people don't wanna DOFF enough, or they don't like grinding for them, when they would rather be grinding for dil or other marks.
Dil: Usually because few people actually want to donate it. I mean they rarely donate ANY dil, ever. This is probably the biggest hurtle for my own fleet most of the time. I mean, not giving dil to buy stuff is one thing (I have to do that all the time, it's never cheap) but never EVER donating even a single bit of dil...?
DOFFs: This used to have various reasons, nowadays, mostly because you need SO many of them that it's a pain to fill unless you have a huge amount of FCs or ECs to blow on buying them.
On the other end of the spectrum, many fleets I've noticed tend to almost always have an overabundance of one of those three things, most of the time being either dil or Fleet marks.
Nothing against you Magnumstar, I still prefer my idea back on page 1.
I have no issues with people who do not want to have anything to do with making the SB, that is their choice. However, those who only donate just enough to buy things and only care about having access to all the best stuff is irking, because they are only focused on themselves. I understand you need dil and FCs so you can actually buy things, but so many I notice only want the gear, and not the work.
In short, they don't care about the effort of getting there (hence why a lot of people seem to be ok with being a 'number' inside a large fleet, because it means they can buy any of the best stuff), and in turn, don't want to do the work to actually get the tiers on the SB/Embassy/Dil mine (which really hurts a great many fleets). They won't go out and grind FMs a lot, or gather or buy large amounts of dil, they will only do enough for what they want, and not a bit more.
Again, I understand people have other things they want to do, we all do. Doesn't necessarily mean they can just sit on their hands while others do all the stuff for the SB.
Also, something most people seem to have forgotten:
Just because someone joins your fleet (a total stranger, not someone you know), that doesn't mean they have 0 FCs. They could have 10 million FCs and 10 million dilithium, and 5 billion ECs for all you may or may not know, yet never spend a single bit of that on the fleet, only buying what they want from the fleet, and never doing a thing past it.
Sure, someone can join the fleet, a total stranger, and have 0 FCs, be brand new to the game, etc, but that someone would also probably be willing to actually earn his stuff more as well.
this is why in my fleet to get promoted to use the fleet store you have to donate enough to get 100k fleet credits..
after this they have complete use of the fleet stores..
this is to keep people from joining, grabbing everything they want and leaving.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
My fleet policy is simple. If you want the shiny you can grind for it like the rest of us. The more you grind, the more you can get subject to a minimum buy in. This is based on your overall holding contribution, not whatever you may currently have.
I kind of expect people in my fleet to want to do things, like STFs and Fleet stuff as a group chances are that if you're doing that you're going to contribute.
Secondly is the dilith mine provision, how dumb is it when you have to spend dilithium on a dilithium mine?
Now as for the fleet members contributing, well that you can kinda monitor by checking deposits in fleet bank and evaluate how many fleet creds members are earning after all!!! Based on those tools you can pretty much tell who is and isn't contributing, and decide if those who don't will ever earn a promotion or purchasing power or simply get the boot. Those who do are to be rewarded how you see fit.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The problem is the Fleet is small to begin with and kicking folks really don't solve the problem since we are still in the same situation, although I agree with kicking them but it would still be just the few of us contributing.
I have already conceded that taxes is not the answer for the following reasons -
1. Low level toons may not have the dil or ec to pay the fees.
2. Multiple toons in the same fleet complicating fee assessment.
3. Corrupt leaders using the fees for personal use.
4. People do not like being taxed ingame and I understand that because we have to pay enough taxes in real life.
But there has to be some way to get the lazies to contribute. If they don't want anything from the Fleet stores or plan to visit the base ever then fine I can agree they don't need to contribute but if they plan on using any of this then they should help out.
system Lord Baal is dead
Isn't the leaderboards too some indication who is contributing?
Unless they carry credits from other fleet. We need better logs.
I can see some folks may not want the fleet store stuff but you still have to build the base. If they never plan to visit said base then great don't contribute but if they beam in and want to use the tailor or other stuff then it would be nice it they chipped in. And i'm not saying the have to open a vein and give me the last drop of blood, just a little help now and then would be appreciated.
In my Fleet, nobody can buy from provisioned stores unless they ask first and pay the subsequent cost of the item in Dilithium, for example if an item is 10,000 dil, they need to pay an additional 10,000 dil into a Fleet project. The system works very well because taxes are necessary and fundamental to the survival of a society.
It is a societies responsibility to look after the whole, rather then just you. That is what the Fleet bank is for and there is a monthly tax in our Fleet to contribute just 50,000 EC into the Fleet bank each month. The majority of my Fleet is British and we are more then happy to help each other out.
We use the money and do a pot each month in which the winner gets that or a lockbox ship if we have one to keep people interested.
I like your idea better too. I just wish I would have heard it sooner so I could have posted it instead of mine but then the read would have not been near as interesting.
You talking about not being greedy, paying your fair share, working together and being socially responsible. This is an alien language to most of the US players. They aren't just blinded by ideology but masses of corporate funded propaganda. Even though what you have said is completely reasonable some will view this as a communist plot.
A lot of fleets would have more progress if they worked together as suggested instead of the "**** you got mine" attitude. On the flip side there are players that are burnt out trying to contribute to these projects. If everyone in the fleet has the attitude that they want to contribute something, even minor, it makes short work of the projects.
So what?
When players join another fleet with existing fleet credits, they shouldn't get to use those, but when they leave or are kicked from a fleet with unused fleet credits, that fleet doesn't lose a thing? In any scenario where players leave one fleet for another, someone's going to lose, either those players, or the fleet that drew them in.
Why should we care enough to regulate who gets the short end of the stick? Why are the efforts of the players slaving to build up Fleet B so much more valuable than the efforts of the player that already did his stint in Fleet A? Regardless of whether or not he's helping B. Oh sure, it's not strictly fair for the new fleet, but on a larger scale the way the system is set up is so that everyone gets exactly what they put in.
So if people aren't putting enough into your starbase, then perhaps there isn't enough to get out of it. Maybe we need more stuff to spend fleet credits on, things that don't require a secondary currency (dilithium) or provisioning or a tier being reached. Fleet batteries and hypoes. Maybe they need to stick a few ultra-rares in the purple Doff packs. (Works for lockboxes.) Or for all I care charge an FC admissions fee for use of the transwarp gate.
But I certainly don't see how indenturing fleet members everywhere, for the sake of some fleet leaders' personal ambitions for their starbases not being quite so much on themselves, as being at all a fairer system.
And as has already been pointed out, if it matters that much to fleets, setting a minimum FC level of say the cost of a fleet ship (200K) or tieing ranks to contribution tiers will go a long way.
Well, then you should try setting up your ranking system better. You can at least limit some ranks from using the store, now I know you can't stop them from visiting the station, but they won't be able to use any facilities if you lock their rank. Then set a policy, when you donate X amount of goods, you can move into the rank that lets you buy stuff.
God Bless the Brits! These are folks who still have good sense. Your system of doing things is the best yet and every Fleet should be emulating it.
There are still folks in the USA who believe in cutting your own stick and helping others but they are mostly in the rural areas of the country or are mainly quiet about voicing their opinion as not receive any backlash.
I just hope by supporting me you don't get labeled with being a pinko, commie, punk, TRIBBLE from hell too.
Oh and can you steer me to the nearest British Fleet?
Thank you for the good advice. I wasn't aware you could lock them out of using base services, that's good to know. I am not a fleet leader so I have no control over anything but i'll be sure to pass along your suggestions.
That was exactly what I was talking about but it seems those things are out of style now and sociably unacceptable in modern US society, outdated concepts. And yes I have already been called a pinko, a commie, and other less endearing monikers.
Its sad to say but you're right, its all about what can I get and what can you/they/we do for me now. There are still quite a few of us over here that believe in the things you said above but we are slowly becoming less and less and tend to get shouted down or attacked by those who believe in the all for me attitude.
Yes , better logs is what i want.