That should be obivous: the claim that the Borty is supposed to be the ship with "the most forward firepower".
Look at how it is described, marketed, built and how the NPC version is represented in game as a siege dreadnought.
It is made to go head to head with the most powerful ships in game like tac cubes, starbases, other dreadnoughts like the Scimitar facing forward and tanking them while firing DHC and autocannon and not having to having to evade around. It currently has the most forward firepower in game now if using DHC and the autocannon besides the tac kumari using wing cannon overload and DHC. If that is taken from it by another KDF ship getting most forward firepower its basically a nerf and there is no good reason why other KDF ship should get 5th fore and not the Bortasqu.
Look at how it is described, marketed, built and how the NPC version is represented in game as a siege dreadnought.
It is made to go head to head with the most powerful ships in game like tac cubes, starbases, other dreadnoughts like the Scimitar facing forward and tanking them while firing DHC and autocannon and not having to having to evade around. It currently has the most forward firepower in game now if using DHC and the autocannon besides the tac kumari using wing cannon overload and DHC. If that is taken from it by another KDF ship getting most forward firepower its basically a nerf and there is no good reason why other KDF ship should get 5th fore and not the Bortasqu.
That's it? That's your source? You interpretet the marketing?:rolleyes:
That's it? That's your source? You interpretet the marketing?:rolleyes:
Is there a good reason for the Bortasqu to not get a 5th fore weapon given the state of the Scimitar?
Like I said, its not just the marketing, but how it is used in game by NPCs and how it is best played by the player. Its really a slap in the face to the KDF for the Flagship to be left falling behind, how do you not see that if you are KDF.
Is there a good reason for the Bortasqu to not get a 5th fore weapon given the state of the Scimitar?
Like I said, its not just the marketing, but how it is used in game by NPCs and how it is best played by the player. Its really a slap in the face to the KDF for the Flagship to be left falling behind, how do you not see that if you are KDF.
5-fore weapons on any cruiser is a waste due to the time-to-target delayed by turn rate and the length of the ship increasing the turn radius. A good reason? I think mathematics would be the easiest I can think of.
The ships inertia and turn rate will ensure that it will get out manoeuvred every single time by a more nimble ship. Even the Scimitar will fly circles around the Bort. Why waste 5-fore weapons on a ship that will only effectively use them perhaps 10 - 20% of the time.
I can only deduce two reasons for someone wanting this: either they have little experience flying this ship against other players, or my more jaded perception that they would rather see this wasted on a gimped ship than see it put to proper use on a ship designed for that intent. The latter argument I have seen advocated a lot on KDF threads by Fed players. Not saying that this is the case here, but just that it has happened in the past.
Like I said, its not just the marketing, but how it is used in game by NPCs and how it is best played by the player. Its really a slap in the face to the KDF for the Flagship to be left falling behind, how do you not see that if you are KDF.
As I recall the point of the disruptor autocannon special ability is to give the player a momentary boost in firepower. With the regular DHCs you have to constantly keep the enemy in arc for them to be effective. That's why several Borty builds I've seen focus on beams instead of DHCs.
As far as the NPCs go, well the siege ships in fleet alerts are basically flying in a straight line towards a space station...which is one of the very few things in this game that is unable to outmaneuver a Borty. I think that tells us a lot about them.
Also, I understand how this game works and that the point of cruisers is actually first and foremost to withstand large amounts of damage, not to dish it out aside from rare moments...like with the autocannon.
Whoa... forget a Raptor... something epiphanied (Not sure if that's a word but I do not wish to care.) to me last night...
WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING FROM THE FERASANS
Those cats have to have a trick or two up their sleeve.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Whoa... forget a Raptor... something epiphanied (Not sure if that's a word but I do not wish to care.) to me last night...
WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING FROM THE FERASANS
Those cats have to have a trick or two up their sleeve.
I couldn't agree more. I was saying that we need THIS Kzinti design for the Ferasans since long time ago, seen how the Ferasans are technically the Kzinti.
That certailnly looks as something that could stike terror in your opponents' hearts and certainly looks apropriate to have the 5 fore weapons this thread is about.
Is there a good reason for the Bortasqu to not get a 5th fore weapon given the state of the Scimitar?
In PvP the Bortasqu' turn rate is it's biggest let down so of course it will not use any dual heavy cannons effectively against a faster frigate type ship leaving only the dual beams that will slighty perform better and single beam arrays that will perform overall for that ship. and another factor is a lack of a battle cloak which the Scimitar have while the Bortas don't.
The Scimitar may have impressive firepower on paper but in reality it will not be a good ship in pvp as it will be in PvE due to the fact it too have a inferior turn rate 7 oppose to bortas 5.5 (1.5 higher but makes no true difference), slow speed and inferior Eng consoles 2-4 depending on the type of Scimitar. the only chance that the Scimitar have in PvP is only an alplha strike coming out of it's battle cloak besides that it will nothing more than space dust in a few moments without a good shield heal build or without any help.
I believe the Bortasqu' either ways is superior to the Scimitar in 1 on 1 combat even without the 5 fore weapon setup, the only main advantage right now that the Rommie faction have over KDF and Feds is their Boff's which each have 2 space traits and they all can stack.
How does base turnrate 5.5 sound?;) And the set bonus does not counter that problem to the same degree as on the D'deridex.
As I recall the point of the disruptor autocannon special ability is to give the player a momentary boost in firepower. With the regular DHCs you have to constantly keep the enemy in arc for them to be effective. That's why several Borty builds I've seen focus on beams instead of DHCs.
As far as the NPCs go, well the siege ships in fleet alerts are basically flying in a straight line towards a space station...which is one of the very few things in this game that is unable to outmaneuver a Borty. I think that tells us a lot about them.
Also, I understand how this game works and that the point of cruisers is actually first and foremost to withstand large amounts of damage, not to dish it out aside from rare moments...like with the autocannon.
I am on my tac Tala@marc8219 regularly dominating at or near top of damage in pvp and pve in my Tac Bortasqu using DHC on it, so is my fleetie Zac@metioricone. You just have to use tractors, max impulse thrusters skill, engine power core, RCS or tachyo console, and try to kill the targets quickly, which isn't to hard with a ship like bortasqu. If you haven't tried DHC on slow turn ships since LoR your opionions on them are outdated, although I did manage DHC on it even before LoR. going to work now but usually in kerrat or queues at around this time on weekends, and later in evening, or willing to run STF or any pve with anyone who wants to see DHC on it is very viable.
The Scimitar may have impressive firepower on paper but in reality it will not be a good ship in pvp as it will be in PvE due to the fact it too have a inferior turn rate 7 oppose to bortas 5.5 (1.5 higher but makes no true difference), slow speed and inferior Eng consoles 2-4 depending on the type of Scimitar. the only chance that the Scimitar have in PvP is only an alplha strike coming out of it's battle cloak besides that it will nothing more than space dust in a few moments without a good shield heal build or without any help.
You are underestimating the battle cloak here. While a 7 turn rate wouldn't be much of a gain over 5.5 on similar ships, it is a large difference here. Battle cloak (unlike regular cloak) gives a significant turn rate boost while cloaked AND it even gets very nice bonuses from special consoles while under cloak (for instance, keeps shields while cloaked).
I'm not saying it's a good PvP ship (that'd be crazy from someone like me), but it has quite a large advantage in manoeuvrability over the Bortasqu'.
And more on topic: Yes, I'm for Ferasan and Lethean ships. But I also want a C-Store Tier 5 raptor, and that would fit perfectly with 5 front weapon slots.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
If they're just gonna make the K'vort a large version of the B'rel then no, I would rather they give a Hegh'ta Retrofit a 5/2 build...now if they want to make a K'vort with a new cool looking skin than that's a different story.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You are underestimating the battle cloak here. While a 7 turn rate wouldn't be much of a gain over 5.5 on similar ships, it is a large difference here. Battle cloak (unlike regular cloak) gives a significant turn rate boost while cloaked AND it even gets very nice bonuses from special consoles while under cloak (for instance, keeps shields while cloaked).
I'm not saying it's a good PvP ship (that'd be crazy from someone like me), but it has quite a large advantage in manoeuvrability over the Bortasqu'.
And more on topic: Yes, I'm for Ferasan and Lethean ships. But I also want a C-Store Tier 5 raptor, and that would fit perfectly with 5 front weapon slots.
Nah, i never have underestimate the battle cloak since my mains using a Fleet B'rel (Yanin Vismitananda) and the other using a Fleet T'varo (Xun Zhou) torp ships, did not mention it because unlike the ships i fly, the Scimitar have get out of cloak most of the time just to shoot something and depending what they're attacking the turn rate will matter depending what weapons they're using so the most likely tactic they're best at is Hit and Cloak which risky itself due to inferior eng console setup or if they have a good shield heal setup they can tank it out that way til the best time for them to cloak when not attacked.
After fighting the Scimitars for a few days now in PvP with both of my torp ships, i'm still right about what i have said about the the Scimitars b4 it's release... they suck at PvP, one primary example my KDF rommie toon killed alot of Fedmulan Scimitars with just single breen cluster torpedo attack, so i still beileve that the Bortasqu' is superior to them in PvP.
the only players i will give a shout out to having the best Scimitars in PvP so far i seen is Shadowstar and perhaps the best Scimitar i seen so far is my PvP comrade... Link (aka Zelda alt) ^_^
Nah, i never have underestimate the battle cloak since my mains using a Fleet B'rel (Yanin Vismitananda) and the other using a Fleet T'varo (Xun Zhou) torp ships, did not mention it because unlike the ships i fly, the Scimitar have get out of cloak most of the time just to shoot something and depending what they're attacking the turn rate will matter depending what weapons they're using so the most likely tactic they're best at is Hit and Cloak which risky itself due to inferior eng console setup or if they have a good shield heal setup they can tank it out that way til the best time for them to cloak when not attacked.
Both the B'Rel and T'Varo are very manoeuvrable while out of cloak and cloaked (before LoR came, many players had no clue Battlecloak even buffs turn). On slower ships, the difference is much more noticeable.
And again, thanks to the passive 'Shields up when cloaked' console, the risk of cloak-escaping is very much minimised.
(Heck even on my Mogai I've gotten used to cloak for about a second for faster turn and decloak buff.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
If they're just gonna make the K'vort a large version of the B'rel then no, I would rather they give a Hegh'ta Retrofit a 5/2 build...now if they want to make a K'vort with a new cool looking skin than that's a different story.
The biggie is how much different they're allowed to make it.
Granted, they were permitted to change the Toron and the Yellowstone, but those are of course only small craft...and in case of the Yellowstone it's questionable whether it would have looked in the Prime Universe the way it did in "Non Sequitor".
IMO if they manage to give the ship wings fixed at or close to the horizontal, they'r already giving the ship an appearance different from the B'rel (whose wings are always either all the way up or all the way down).
Add details up close like several rows of windows on the forward hull and neck like the Kamarag has http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/14/f6/14f670cdf72a5a62b652d17ab5e048581359575317.jpg
and escape pods on the forward module (which we know the Koraga had in "Penumbra") and the main hull.
Perhaps a visible aft torpedo launcher set inbetween split impulse engines and slightly altered wing cannons...that should be close enough to the basic shape while satisfying the need to show it's a different ship.
I'm surprised that dontdrunkimshoot hasn't posted yet, but he often mentions having a Negh'var refit would be a good candidate for a 5/3 ship for the KDF. The Negh'var has a turn rate of 9 i think, and it could be given special cannons like the Kumari (something that fires from the underslung pods of that one variant we see in DS9)
ive been to busy playing with my scim to see the thread!
i have it on very good authority that a 5 forward weapon kdf ship is not to far off, and though it might not be all new, but a variation on something in game already.
basically lines up with a c store regent esk negvar that gecko had mentioned in a pod cast a wile back.
the negvar in game is the version you see in all good things, perhaps its more of a production model, compared to the flagship of gowrons, that attacked DS9. thats what the ship would proboly look like, the DS9 version thats slightly different looking then the AGT version, most notably with the large under slung cannons. thanks to the andorain escort, we have the perfect bit of tech that could be reused, the wing guns, a disruptor version could be fired from them.
with a 5 forward weapons ship definitely on the way, the wing gun tech, a ship variant from canon not yet used, a kdf c store ship on the horizon confirmed by dstahl, im really not sure what else it could possibly be. and if its what i suspect it is, it will be my favorite ship by far, i already love battle cruisers, this would be the epitome of battle cruisers. it would beat the pants off the scimitar too, dispute its cloaking tricks.
cheap to creat to, so theres less issue of profit margin. reused wing gun tech, a makeover of an existing model, no real need for any special console when it already comes with the wing guns, and a no braner regent station setup with 4/2/4 tac consoles, charges at a 2500 zen premium im sure they will make money on it. it will be everything that the failed bortas and all the sub tier 5 ships weren't. a good turning fun to use ship, thats at end game.
cheap to creat to, so theres less issue of profit margin. reused wing gun tech, a makeover of an existing model, no real need for any special console when it already comes with the wing guns, and a no braner regent station setup with 4/2/4 tac consoles, charges at a 2500 zen premium im sure they will make money on it. it will be everything that the failed bortas and all the sub tier 5 ships weren't. a good turning fun to use ship, thats at end game.
I am not sure they're about to release a single (no three-pack) Fleet level ship (10 consoles).
Either it's a single Neghvar-Refit with 3/2/4 (tac/sci/eng) consoles with a 5/3 weapon slots. (Maybe even a raptoresque 4/2/3 console setup if they want to stress the tac nature.)
Or (which I'm doubtful about) it's a three pack a la Scimitar, where certainly at least one version has 4 or more tac console slots.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Give it a fighter bay and a 'Continuous Spinal Disruptor Beam'(Think: Homeworld Ion Frigate) that does more damage the longer it continues to fire and can be unequipped like the Kumari Wing Cannons.
The biggie is how much different they're allowed to make it.
Granted, they were permitted to change the Toron and the Yellowstone, but those are of course only small craft...and in case of the Yellowstone it's questionable whether it would have looked in the Prime Universe the way it did in "Non Sequitor".
IMO if they manage to give the ship wings fixed at or close to the horizontal, they'r already giving the ship an appearance different from the B'rel (whose wings are always either all the way up or all the way down).
Add details up close like several rows of windows on the forward hull and neck like the Kamarag has http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/14/f6/14f670cdf72a5a62b652d17ab5e048581359575317.jpg
and escape pods on the forward module (which we know the Koraga had in "Penumbra") and the main hull.
Perhaps a visible aft torpedo launcher set inbetween split impulse engines and slightly altered wing cannons...that should be close enough to the basic shape while satisfying the need to show it's a different ship.
Well if they can't mold there own without getting into some type of problem I would rather just see a Hegh'ta. The Hegh'ta isn't a bad looking ship and is probably my favorite BoP along with the Ning'tao which is already playable at t5.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
For my money I'd love to see the Haj' get an update, it is after all a 'heavy' BoP.
In my mind it should be more like an escort not just another 'paper mache' raider. The in game ship model is large compared to other beefier ships so let's give it some stats to match.
I'd spend money on a 3 pack, each tweaked to be more useful for each captain type. If it absolutely has to have some sort of special consoles or built in abilities then give it something that enhances disruptor weapons, similar to the many Romulan items boosting plasma. .
How about a fleet variant of the Ch'tang Bird of Prey. It's probably my favorite Bird skin in the game, and it's only available at Captain level. I want to fly it again!
Why is it that people SEEM to be intent on turning the Bird of Prey design into a funny-looking RAPTOR?? If you want a Defiant/Bugship style Escort, that's what you should lobby for, not a half-baked conversion on a Bird of Prey chassis.
Seriously, just take the Qorgh Raptor and "T5 it" with a 5 console slot version, fixed pivot point, and Defiant or Bugship crew layout and you're done.
The Bird of Prey needs SOME help-but not that kind-it kind of defeats the underlying ideas of the class-a BoP is a pilot's airplane, stripped of anything unnecessary, variable and customizable to a degree no other ship can boast. The only "Improvements" it really NEEDS come not from the Escort classes, but from the Science Ship classes-sensor analysis, and maybe a higher impulse mod so it's a hair faster (and thus, higher defense).
I still get kills in my haj-skinned Hegh'ta just fine in ker'rat, C&H, and Arenas-in SPITE OF having less Rep development than the average for someone with my join date, IN SPITE OF having the fewest weapons, IN SPITE OF the thin hull and weak shields and IN SPITE OF having very few C-store/Z-store consoles at my my disposal.
Now, I've run the Hoh'sus on my Tac, and the Fleet Norgh. Both are superb examples of the Bird of Prey as a class, but the Norgh's more fun-it's got a better turn rate and that extra Bridge Officer ability. I actually ran it back when everyone said it was a death-trap for having less hull than a Danoob...and did just fine,thanks.
It really doesn't NEED a third turret in the rear, it doesn't even need a fifth gun up front, it CERTAINLY doesn't need a Cryptic-assigned seating arrangement laid out to make it inferior to it's peers.
Booo! :P
If we get a new Raptor I want it based off the Pach!
Anywho back to point, I really think the Hegh'ta would be good for a 5 weapon front attack ship. She is called a Heavy Bird of Prey and just look at all the weapon placements on her!
Why is it that people SEEM to be intent on turning the Bird of Prey design into a funny-looking RAPTOR?? If you want a Defiant/Bugship style Escort, that's what you should lobby for, not a half-baked conversion on a Bird of Prey chassis.
Patrick may have been a little harsh in his wording, but I essentially agree. BoPs and Raptors are different kinds of ships, and to have a BoP chassis straight-up out-gun the raptors goes a long way to making raptors obsolete.
That said, I don't think strapping a 5-fore-weapon layout onto a raptor would be a good idea either, since a cloaking Kumari with a kinda' buff hull might finally unseat the Jem'hadar Attack Ship for the most broken thing ever.
If y'all want a 5-fore-weapon ship for the KDF (which really is only fair, I guess), my advice would be to have it not be a Klingon ship-- make it a Nausicaan raider. That allows the devs to escape established design trends, and spares everyone else the frustration of having to deal with a Kumari decloaking in their aft quarter at point-blank range. Trust me-- you don't want that.
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
How about Ferasian? They don't have any ships yet so we could easily get a ship from them without it having to follow any racial design rules.
I would like to see a genuine KDF Cloaking Sci ship.
I would like to see a 5 Tac Console Raptor
I would like to see a new Klingon Cruiser
I would like to see a Fleet upgrade for the Garumba and Kar'Fi and any other T5 9 Console ship.
I don't want to see a BoP that is a Raptor, I wouldn't mind seeing a Raptor or Cruiser that could Battle Cloak but.
And for the ridiculous
How about a 3 pack of ships consisting of a Cruiser, Raptor and BoP. If you own all ships and fit all the consoles you can summon the other ships, Form Mecha-Kahless pull out your Blazing Batleth and fight your Enemies in the most Klingon way possible Hand to Hand combat with a Spaceship. Worth it even with an hour cooldown. Remeber 80% shield penetration for Melee weapons.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
How about Ferasian? They don't have any ships yet so we could easily get a ship from them without it having to follow any racial design rules.
I dunnow. At only one end-game ship each (maybe two for the Nausicaans-- is the Fleet Scourge a thing? I'm too tired to look it up...), I can't help but feel that the current ally races are under-represented as-is. I'd really like to see at least two distinctly different ships for each of the three main KDF ally races before we start adding Ferasian and Lethean ships.
... but then again, I'm a screaming Gorn fan, so take that as you will...
Comments
Random fanfiction.
Look at how it is described, marketed, built and how the NPC version is represented in game as a siege dreadnought.
It is made to go head to head with the most powerful ships in game like tac cubes, starbases, other dreadnoughts like the Scimitar facing forward and tanking them while firing DHC and autocannon and not having to having to evade around. It currently has the most forward firepower in game now if using DHC and the autocannon besides the tac kumari using wing cannon overload and DHC. If that is taken from it by another KDF ship getting most forward firepower its basically a nerf and there is no good reason why other KDF ship should get 5th fore and not the Bortasqu.
That's it? That's your source? You interpretet the marketing?:rolleyes:
Is there a good reason for the Bortasqu to not get a 5th fore weapon given the state of the Scimitar?
Like I said, its not just the marketing, but how it is used in game by NPCs and how it is best played by the player. Its really a slap in the face to the KDF for the Flagship to be left falling behind, how do you not see that if you are KDF.
5-fore weapons on any cruiser is a waste due to the time-to-target delayed by turn rate and the length of the ship increasing the turn radius. A good reason? I think mathematics would be the easiest I can think of.
The ships inertia and turn rate will ensure that it will get out manoeuvred every single time by a more nimble ship. Even the Scimitar will fly circles around the Bort. Why waste 5-fore weapons on a ship that will only effectively use them perhaps 10 - 20% of the time.
I can only deduce two reasons for someone wanting this: either they have little experience flying this ship against other players, or my more jaded perception that they would rather see this wasted on a gimped ship than see it put to proper use on a ship designed for that intent. The latter argument I have seen advocated a lot on KDF threads by Fed players. Not saying that this is the case here, but just that it has happened in the past.
How does base turnrate 5.5 sound?;) And the set bonus does not counter that problem to the same degree as on the D'deridex.
As I recall the point of the disruptor autocannon special ability is to give the player a momentary boost in firepower. With the regular DHCs you have to constantly keep the enemy in arc for them to be effective. That's why several Borty builds I've seen focus on beams instead of DHCs.
As far as the NPCs go, well the siege ships in fleet alerts are basically flying in a straight line towards a space station...which is one of the very few things in this game that is unable to outmaneuver a Borty. I think that tells us a lot about them.
Also, I understand how this game works and that the point of cruisers is actually first and foremost to withstand large amounts of damage, not to dish it out aside from rare moments...like with the autocannon.
WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING FROM THE FERASANS
Those cats have to have a trick or two up their sleeve.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
I couldn't agree more. I was saying that we need THIS Kzinti design for the Ferasans since long time ago, seen how the Ferasans are technically the Kzinti.
That certailnly looks as something that could stike terror in your opponents' hearts and certainly looks apropriate to have the 5 fore weapons this thread is about.
In PvP the Bortasqu' turn rate is it's biggest let down so of course it will not use any dual heavy cannons effectively against a faster frigate type ship leaving only the dual beams that will slighty perform better and single beam arrays that will perform overall for that ship. and another factor is a lack of a battle cloak which the Scimitar have while the Bortas don't.
The Scimitar may have impressive firepower on paper but in reality it will not be a good ship in pvp as it will be in PvE due to the fact it too have a inferior turn rate 7 oppose to bortas 5.5 (1.5 higher but makes no true difference), slow speed and inferior Eng consoles 2-4 depending on the type of Scimitar. the only chance that the Scimitar have in PvP is only an alplha strike coming out of it's battle cloak besides that it will nothing more than space dust in a few moments without a good shield heal build or without any help.
I believe the Bortasqu' either ways is superior to the Scimitar in 1 on 1 combat even without the 5 fore weapon setup, the only main advantage right now that the Rommie faction have over KDF and Feds is their Boff's which each have 2 space traits and they all can stack.
I am on my tac Tala@marc8219 regularly dominating at or near top of damage in pvp and pve in my Tac Bortasqu using DHC on it, so is my fleetie Zac@metioricone. You just have to use tractors, max impulse thrusters skill, engine power core, RCS or tachyo console, and try to kill the targets quickly, which isn't to hard with a ship like bortasqu. If you haven't tried DHC on slow turn ships since LoR your opionions on them are outdated, although I did manage DHC on it even before LoR. going to work now but usually in kerrat or queues at around this time on weekends, and later in evening, or willing to run STF or any pve with anyone who wants to see DHC on it is very viable.
Oh yeah, now this idea I can get behind. A one-off Ferasan 5/2 escort or 5/3 destroyer would be amazing.
I still stick to my 5/1 BoP three-pack idea, though.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
You are underestimating the battle cloak here. While a 7 turn rate wouldn't be much of a gain over 5.5 on similar ships, it is a large difference here. Battle cloak (unlike regular cloak) gives a significant turn rate boost while cloaked AND it even gets very nice bonuses from special consoles while under cloak (for instance, keeps shields while cloaked).
I'm not saying it's a good PvP ship (that'd be crazy from someone like me), but it has quite a large advantage in manoeuvrability over the Bortasqu'.
And more on topic: Yes, I'm for Ferasan and Lethean ships. But I also want a C-Store Tier 5 raptor, and that would fit perfectly with 5 front weapon slots.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Nah, i never have underestimate the battle cloak since my mains using a Fleet B'rel (Yanin Vismitananda) and the other using a Fleet T'varo (Xun Zhou) torp ships, did not mention it because unlike the ships i fly, the Scimitar have get out of cloak most of the time just to shoot something and depending what they're attacking the turn rate will matter depending what weapons they're using so the most likely tactic they're best at is Hit and Cloak which risky itself due to inferior eng console setup or if they have a good shield heal setup they can tank it out that way til the best time for them to cloak when not attacked.
After fighting the Scimitars for a few days now in PvP with both of my torp ships, i'm still right about what i have said about the the Scimitars b4 it's release... they suck at PvP, one primary example my KDF rommie toon killed alot of Fedmulan Scimitars with just single breen cluster torpedo attack, so i still beileve that the Bortasqu' is superior to them in PvP.
the only players i will give a shout out to having the best Scimitars in PvP so far i seen is Shadowstar and perhaps the best Scimitar i seen so far is my PvP comrade... Link (aka Zelda alt) ^_^
Both the B'Rel and T'Varo are very manoeuvrable while out of cloak and cloaked (before LoR came, many players had no clue Battlecloak even buffs turn). On slower ships, the difference is much more noticeable.
And again, thanks to the passive 'Shields up when cloaked' console, the risk of cloak-escaping is very much minimised.
(Heck even on my Mogai I've gotten used to cloak for about a second for faster turn and decloak buff.)
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
The biggie is how much different they're allowed to make it.
Granted, they were permitted to change the Toron and the Yellowstone, but those are of course only small craft...and in case of the Yellowstone it's questionable whether it would have looked in the Prime Universe the way it did in "Non Sequitor".
IMO if they manage to give the ship wings fixed at or close to the horizontal, they'r already giving the ship an appearance different from the B'rel (whose wings are always either all the way up or all the way down).
Add details up close like several rows of windows on the forward hull and neck like the Kamarag has
http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/14/f6/14f670cdf72a5a62b652d17ab5e048581359575317.jpg
and escape pods on the forward module (which we know the Koraga had in "Penumbra") and the main hull.
Perhaps a visible aft torpedo launcher set inbetween split impulse engines and slightly altered wing cannons...that should be close enough to the basic shape while satisfying the need to show it's a different ship.
ive been to busy playing with my scim to see the thread!
i have it on very good authority that a 5 forward weapon kdf ship is not to far off, and though it might not be all new, but a variation on something in game already.
basically lines up with a c store regent esk negvar that gecko had mentioned in a pod cast a wile back.
the negvar in game is the version you see in all good things, perhaps its more of a production model, compared to the flagship of gowrons, that attacked DS9. thats what the ship would proboly look like, the DS9 version thats slightly different looking then the AGT version, most notably with the large under slung cannons. thanks to the andorain escort, we have the perfect bit of tech that could be reused, the wing guns, a disruptor version could be fired from them.
with a 5 forward weapons ship definitely on the way, the wing gun tech, a ship variant from canon not yet used, a kdf c store ship on the horizon confirmed by dstahl, im really not sure what else it could possibly be. and if its what i suspect it is, it will be my favorite ship by far, i already love battle cruisers, this would be the epitome of battle cruisers. it would beat the pants off the scimitar too, dispute its cloaking tricks.
cheap to creat to, so theres less issue of profit margin. reused wing gun tech, a makeover of an existing model, no real need for any special console when it already comes with the wing guns, and a no braner regent station setup with 4/2/4 tac consoles, charges at a 2500 zen premium im sure they will make money on it. it will be everything that the failed bortas and all the sub tier 5 ships weren't. a good turning fun to use ship, thats at end game.
Where can I sign?
I am not sure they're about to release a single (no three-pack) Fleet level ship (10 consoles).
Either it's a single Neghvar-Refit with 3/2/4 (tac/sci/eng) consoles with a 5/3 weapon slots. (Maybe even a raptoresque 4/2/3 console setup if they want to stress the tac nature.)
Or (which I'm doubtful about) it's a three pack a la Scimitar, where certainly at least one version has 4 or more tac console slots.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Give it a fighter bay and a 'Continuous Spinal Disruptor Beam'(Think: Homeworld Ion Frigate) that does more damage the longer it continues to fire and can be unequipped like the Kumari Wing Cannons.
Well if they can't mold there own without getting into some type of problem I would rather just see a Hegh'ta. The Hegh'ta isn't a bad looking ship and is probably my favorite BoP along with the Ning'tao which is already playable at t5.
In my mind it should be more like an escort not just another 'paper mache' raider. The in game ship model is large compared to other beefier ships so let's give it some stats to match.
I'd spend money on a 3 pack, each tweaked to be more useful for each captain type. If it absolutely has to have some sort of special consoles or built in abilities then give it something that enhances disruptor weapons, similar to the many Romulan items boosting plasma.
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[/SIGPIC]
Booo! :P
If we get a new Raptor I want it based off the Pach!
Anywho back to point, I really think the Hegh'ta would be good for a 5 weapon front attack ship. She is called a Heavy Bird of Prey and just look at all the weapon placements on her!
http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Mob_Klingon_Bird-of-Prey_Hegh%27ta.png
Just screams armed to the teeth!
That said, I don't think strapping a 5-fore-weapon layout onto a raptor would be a good idea either, since a cloaking Kumari with a kinda' buff hull might finally unseat the Jem'hadar Attack Ship for the most broken thing ever.
If y'all want a 5-fore-weapon ship for the KDF (which really is only fair, I guess), my advice would be to have it not be a Klingon ship-- make it a Nausicaan raider. That allows the devs to escape established design trends, and spares everyone else the frustration of having to deal with a Kumari decloaking in their aft quarter at point-blank range. Trust me-- you don't want that.
-- Winston Churchill
I would like to see a genuine KDF Cloaking Sci ship.
I would like to see a 5 Tac Console Raptor
I would like to see a new Klingon Cruiser
I would like to see a Fleet upgrade for the Garumba and Kar'Fi and any other T5 9 Console ship.
I don't want to see a BoP that is a Raptor, I wouldn't mind seeing a Raptor or Cruiser that could Battle Cloak but.
And for the ridiculous
How about a 3 pack of ships consisting of a Cruiser, Raptor and BoP. If you own all ships and fit all the consoles you can summon the other ships, Form Mecha-Kahless pull out your Blazing Batleth and fight your Enemies in the most Klingon way possible Hand to Hand combat with a Spaceship. Worth it even with an hour cooldown. Remeber 80% shield penetration for Melee weapons.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
... but then again, I'm a screaming Gorn fan, so take that as you will...
Someone's been watching too much Outlaw Star... :P
-- Winston Churchill