To be honest, I tend to run mk xi (sci/eng) or xii (tac) purple weapons from the exchange on pretty much all my alts, with blue mk xi/green mk xii consoles.
I generally manage to kit out my endgame ships for about 3-5 mil EC, depending on carreer and skill path choice. That's a complete setup, including Boffs, generally.
*shrug*
I do pretty well in both PvP and PvE with them, so it can't be all that bad, compared to the fleet and rep stuff.
Sometimes, when I get too much unspent EC I upgrade some further, but I find the differences are so small, I generally upgrade sideways - getting some alternatives to swap out depending on situations.
I'm not sure who the op is talking to in game to get their answer, the filth that is zone chat maybe? You won't get answers any good there. Anyway, helping someone on builds, set ups and improving is pretty impossible to do correctly on the forums, find good people and they will help you the way you want. On the other side I've run into many people saying they want the best X but then won't work towards getting that but keep repeatedly saying they want the best, like a broken record. Its hard to say if the op gets bad advice or is a record.
Find someone in game and be realistic. If you want the best it is going to be fleet/lock box for ships. There are many very competitive ships and configurations that don't need fleet gear, but you need to put the effort in.
And looking at these discussion, there are just no way, no how, a fed can get even good enough tanking gears unless they invest wayy too much time. May be good for people who have nothing to do, but anyone with a good enough job would likely pay for good gears then grind, which is what the fleet system is. worse, unlike rep grind, there are no guarantee to get good gears, since they may charge a lot for stuff.
actually. i've tanked Tac Cubes in Infected in both an atrox and jem dread, i dont have fleet equipment.
non-fleet blue/purple Mk XI or XII items will get you by in most non PvP content. it mostly comes down to build and powers.
though when building for PvP yes you have to expect to pay a lot to remain competitive.
If you ask me, you can do any endgame content in the ship Admiral Quinn gave you at rank level 40 promotion. At T5 shipyard, there is no such thing as a best ship, what matters is your playstyle and your dps capabilities. DPS=damage per second. So I strongly advise you not to listen to those individuals urging you to chase after fleet gear, especially if you only go for PvE content. The difference between exchange/reputation/fleet store items is marginal at best, especially if they're the same rarity (=common, uncommon, rare, very rare, ultra rare, unique). For instance: rare mk xii tactical console (damage boosting type) might have 28.1% damage bonus, the same console but very rare mk xii console has 30%. The difference between the two is insignificant. And that's not all, items that are lower rank but higher quality can be equivalent to an item that's higher rank but of lower quality. Example: mk xii rare tactical console has the same stats as an mk xi very rare console; 28.1% damage bonus. This is not something that's restricted to consoles only, the same goes for shields, deflectors, engines and even weapons. You will see this pattern in every item cryptic wants you to buy.
^^^ Excellent point.
You don't need fleet gear in this game unless you're some seriously competitive PVP junkie. Sure fleet gear might make life a little easier in PVE but the artificial intelligence isn't exactly a major challenge and you can still get the job done without it.
I have been in bad fleets both in the KDF and the Federation so I don't think you can single out the Fed Fleets as the sole villains of providing bad advice. One particularly stupid KDF fleet leader insisted I needed fleet gear for PVE, obviously as a way to encourage player contributions to projects.
However I will say that when I ask a question on the KDF side I typically get an intelligent informative response. Most of the time that is, there are still a lot of random discussions concerning the Gorn reproductive cycle too.
Fleets in my opinion are about people, socialising/making friends, having a good laugh and teaming up for games. I take a very dim view of fleets that are nothing more than Trek Online Superstores. The mercenary ones that offer "pay to shop for wares" are even worse IMHO.
My Fed fleet is almost Tier 2 but that doesn't bother me at all, its an adult fleet and a lot of fun. Nobody tells anyone what to do. Advice is given freely when asked for and is usually very helpful.
So all I can say to the OP is maybe you've just had bad luck asking the wrong fleets for advice.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
Sometimes I think I can improve my build, and sometimes it is within my mostly F2P means. Then I guess I go ahead and do it. Little bit of grind, but mostly I do what I enjoy. Sometimes it feels like grind. That's okay, I take some time off. I come back, and maybe I have a different goal, maybe I just want to look at the pretty explosions.
I love my bubble-headed idiot-ship and I enjoy an occasional drink with friends.
I don't know if it's the worst community ever but the need rolling thing in STFs is extremely annoying. And it forces to either need roll on everything as well or never get any loot.
It's quite unpleasant. I'd like to see the need/greed mechanic removed from these and put everything up for a random roll.
I use to greed things too, then I got tired of getting no loot when I was carrying the team. Now I need on everything. To be honest, I wish Cryptic had kept things like they were in City of heroes... It was so much more comfortable playing the game when the looting action wasn't in your face all the time. The game was more about fighting enemies, and you could look up your loot later. Leave that garbage to your crew. Save the captaining for the captain Seriously though I wish they'd just have something send out a nice loot table for each individual like they did on City Of Heroes.
I noticed many people say that Patrol escort is the best... I agree. I fly one. Heck, I even have a steamrunner, and it's basically a poor man's JHAS. But if so, why I want to improve HEC, or get a Vesta then?
I never think of HEC as an escort. I think of it as a "light weight Kar'fi with one less hangar on the Fed side".
The reason is because I am always a pet master. The MVAE module (which can be applied to patrol) is good only to a certain point, as you cannot command it, and you cannot "relaunch" it, while with fighters you can.
So really, that means on the Fed side, I am stuck with 3 choices:
1) Atrox - didn't pick it because it was too science heavy, even though it is "based on Vo'quv".
2) HEC - which is actually very similar to Patrol
3) Vesta - would get the three packs, as I like to customize the looks
So between the two choices I asked people about which one is better, and somehow everyone answer that both are good, and both use fleet gear builds.
Since I have not flew much science vessels, I decide to go with what I know abotu Fed and picked the HEC. Now, what I know on the Fed side is limited, because until I am grinding for my HEC, I focus on my KDF side, and flew the Kamarag or Vo'quv.
I fail to see what the issue with the HEC is. Fleet version has an extra console slot and a slightly higher hull/shield. So what? Less durable ships do just as well as the vanilla C-store HEC. As for fleet gear? You can get excellent gear from the various reputations. MACO/Omega/ Borg engine, deflector and shields. Romulan plasma weapons. All manner of fiddly consoles and goodies. Elite Scorpion Fighters.
I noticed many people say that Patrol escort is the best... I agree. I fly one. Heck, I even have a steamrunner, and it's basically a poor man's JHAS. But if so, why I want to improve HEC, or get a Vesta then?
I never think of HEC as an escort. I think of it as a "light weight Kar'fi with one less hangar on the Fed side".
The reason is because I am always a pet master. The MVAE module (which can be applied to patrol) is good only to a certain point, as you cannot command it, and you cannot "relaunch" it, while with fighters you can.
So really, that means on the Fed side, I am stuck with 3 choices:
1) Atrox - didn't pick it because it was too science heavy, even though it is "based on Vo'quv".
2) HEC - which is actually very similar to Patrol
3) Vesta - would get the three packs, as I like to customize the looks
So between the two choices I asked people about which one is better, and somehow everyone answer that both are good, and both use fleet gear builds.
Since I have not flew much science vessels, I decide to go with what I know abotu Fed and picked the HEC. Now, what I know on the Fed side is limited, because until I am grinding for my HEC, I focus on my KDF side, and flew the Kamarag or Vo'quv.
The problem is you asked the wrong question.
The question shouldn't have been "between these two choices which is better"
The question should've been "is there a Fed ship that allows me to be a pet master like on the KDF side?"
Basically, you want something that Fed vessels cannot give.
HEC has 7 weapons and 1 hangar bay.
Vesta only has 6 weapons and 1 hangar bay.
The Atrox has 6 weapons and 2 hangar bays, but you've dismissed it on the grounds that its a science ship.
If you want pets as a Fed then Atrox is the best choice since it is the only real carrier fed side. As for why everyone suggests fleet gear is because it is the better gear and people suggest the best. If you dont want to go the whole fleet equip route and go on a budget then the free jem'hadar or breen sets are good for PvE and get MK XII very rare weapons of whatever flavor except the ACC X3 which cost a bundle since they are considered as good or better than advanced fleet. As for tac consoles get the MK XII in blue or MK XI purple depending on which is cheaper on the exchange. Once you get setup that way then get the rep gear over time to replace if you feel inclined to do so.
If you are looking at a Vesta but dismiss the Atrox because it is more sci oriented then choosing the Vesta is just choosing even more sci orientation.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Well, on one hand, I guess I did picked the wrong question to ask.
On the other hand, it still does not change the fact that Fleet system is the issue that is choking thie Fed side - not because it has better gear, but because the only guides out there involve fleet gears
I know many people are afraid of scimatar in that it will turn into a p2w. Well, considering the amount of resource one has to throw into a fleet, it's an even worse kind of p2w.
p2w through zen - you can guarantee about something
p2w through the lfeet - you may get a bump deal and all your ec / dill gone.
That's the real reason why many who support fleet gears (like the guy who wrote about Vesta) want to nerf this - because that will mean fleet can no longer charge an arm and a leg; they lost the advantage.
But sometimes, way that topple the market can be a good thing.
Well, on one hand, I guess I did picked the wrong question to ask.
On the other hand, it still does not change the fact that Fleet system is the issue that is choking thie Fed side - not because it has better gear, but because the only guides out there involve fleet gears
I know many people are afraid of scimatar in that it will turn into a p2w. Well, considering the amount of resource one has to throw into a fleet, it's an even worse kind of p2w.
p2w through zen - you can guarantee about something
p2w through the lfeet - you may get a bump deal and all your ec / dill gone.
That's the real reason why many who support fleet gears (like the guy who wrote about Vesta) want to nerf this - because that will mean fleet can no longer charge an arm and a leg; they lost the advantage.
But sometimes, way that topple the market can be a good thing.
Phew... English is not your strongest suit it seems...
That aside though: I personally would agree if you want to make the argument that gating so much of the best stuff behind Fleet Progression is an obnoxious pain and requires massive amounts of resources for someone to obtain it making it a massive headache.
I would personally like it a lot more if Fleets offered the various areas as nice social zones, gave us greater ability to get Dilithium, EC, EXP, Costumes/Ship Materials, GPL, Rep, and needed defending against NPC attacks occasionally to keep them up and running and against Players if you flag your fleet for PvP instances.
As fleets are now they are just a grind fest of epic proportion to get some of the best things in the game.
However... It is too late to argue about P2W. This game has been P2W for a LONG time now.
On the other hand, it still does not change the fact that Fleet system is the issue that is choking thie Fed side - not because it has better gear, but because the only guides out there involve fleet gears
Choking the federation is a bit hyperbolic don't you think?
And who is going to write a gearing guide that focuses on second/third/fourth best gear?
Do you PvP? If not then it probably doesn't matter what gear you get for your ship. If you want to be Tanky in a HEC then maybe look to one of the sets that has a covariant shield, and mix in as many sci/eng heals as possible, with a couple Tac Teams to maintain that buff as well. But the HEC is really an escort, so there are going to be limits to that.
If you don't seriously PvP you can can pretty much build your ship as you like. I was Going for a Maco/Borg Adapted set on my HEC, with phaser, before I stopped playing Fed side for my new Rom main. I got a Fleet Mogai for him and plan on going Romulan Prototype/Singularity Harness on him. Its not the most uber setup, but its more than adequate and its fund for me.
I call BS on this entire thread. When you request help with a load-out for your ship you aren't asking for sub-par junk. If you don't have the time or inclination to grind rep/fm etc then you can simply request a "cheap" equipment set up (which most people are happy to provide). But to get annoyed that people are suggesting "optimal" gear is ridiculous. Singling out Federation fleets in this case also doesn't fly well with me (I play KDF as well) and in all honesty both my KDF and FED fleets have been equally useful in providing build/load-out feedback/suggestions.
The advice I would of told in game is don't bother buying any ship below T4 as you will never use it once you reach lvl 50 as they are waste of money except for 1 fed and kdf ship t3.
To the OP I asked for help on this board and never got it.I learned a lot on my own but then again I doknow somethig from other rpgs and trek game I've played.
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USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
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I generally manage to kit out my endgame ships for about 3-5 mil EC, depending on carreer and skill path choice. That's a complete setup, including Boffs, generally.
*shrug*
I do pretty well in both PvP and PvE with them, so it can't be all that bad, compared to the fleet and rep stuff.
Sometimes, when I get too much unspent EC I upgrade some further, but I find the differences are so small, I generally upgrade sideways - getting some alternatives to swap out depending on situations.
Find someone in game and be realistic. If you want the best it is going to be fleet/lock box for ships. There are many very competitive ships and configurations that don't need fleet gear, but you need to put the effort in.
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actually. i've tanked Tac Cubes in Infected in both an atrox and jem dread, i dont have fleet equipment.
non-fleet blue/purple Mk XI or XII items will get you by in most non PvP content. it mostly comes down to build and powers.
though when building for PvP yes you have to expect to pay a lot to remain competitive.
^^^ Excellent point.
You don't need fleet gear in this game unless you're some seriously competitive PVP junkie. Sure fleet gear might make life a little easier in PVE but the artificial intelligence isn't exactly a major challenge and you can still get the job done without it.
I have been in bad fleets both in the KDF and the Federation so I don't think you can single out the Fed Fleets as the sole villains of providing bad advice. One particularly stupid KDF fleet leader insisted I needed fleet gear for PVE, obviously as a way to encourage player contributions to projects.
However I will say that when I ask a question on the KDF side I typically get an intelligent informative response. Most of the time that is, there are still a lot of random discussions concerning the Gorn reproductive cycle too.
Fleets in my opinion are about people, socialising/making friends, having a good laugh and teaming up for games. I take a very dim view of fleets that are nothing more than Trek Online Superstores. The mercenary ones that offer "pay to shop for wares" are even worse IMHO.
My Fed fleet is almost Tier 2 but that doesn't bother me at all, its an adult fleet and a lot of fun. Nobody tells anyone what to do. Advice is given freely when asked for and is usually very helpful.
So all I can say to the OP is maybe you've just had bad luck asking the wrong fleets for advice.
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
Sometimes I think I can improve my build, and sometimes it is within my mostly F2P means. Then I guess I go ahead and do it. Little bit of grind, but mostly I do what I enjoy. Sometimes it feels like grind. That's okay, I take some time off. I come back, and maybe I have a different goal, maybe I just want to look at the pretty explosions.
I love my bubble-headed idiot-ship and I enjoy an occasional drink with friends.
Why so serious?
I use to greed things too, then I got tired of getting no loot when I was carrying the team. Now I need on everything. To be honest, I wish Cryptic had kept things like they were in City of heroes... It was so much more comfortable playing the game when the looting action wasn't in your face all the time. The game was more about fighting enemies, and you could look up your loot later. Leave that garbage to your crew. Save the captaining for the captain
I never think of HEC as an escort. I think of it as a "light weight Kar'fi with one less hangar on the Fed side".
The reason is because I am always a pet master. The MVAE module (which can be applied to patrol) is good only to a certain point, as you cannot command it, and you cannot "relaunch" it, while with fighters you can.
So really, that means on the Fed side, I am stuck with 3 choices:
1) Atrox - didn't pick it because it was too science heavy, even though it is "based on Vo'quv".
2) HEC - which is actually very similar to Patrol
3) Vesta - would get the three packs, as I like to customize the looks
So between the two choices I asked people about which one is better, and somehow everyone answer that both are good, and both use fleet gear builds.
Since I have not flew much science vessels, I decide to go with what I know abotu Fed and picked the HEC. Now, what I know on the Fed side is limited, because until I am grinding for my HEC, I focus on my KDF side, and flew the Kamarag or Vo'quv.
None of this requires a fleet.
The problem is you asked the wrong question.
The question shouldn't have been "between these two choices which is better"
The question should've been "is there a Fed ship that allows me to be a pet master like on the KDF side?"
Basically, you want something that Fed vessels cannot give.
HEC has 7 weapons and 1 hangar bay.
Vesta only has 6 weapons and 1 hangar bay.
The Atrox has 6 weapons and 2 hangar bays, but you've dismissed it on the grounds that its a science ship.
If you are looking at a Vesta but dismiss the Atrox because it is more sci oriented then choosing the Vesta is just choosing even more sci orientation.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
On the other hand, it still does not change the fact that Fleet system is the issue that is choking thie Fed side - not because it has better gear, but because the only guides out there involve fleet gears
I know many people are afraid of scimatar in that it will turn into a p2w. Well, considering the amount of resource one has to throw into a fleet, it's an even worse kind of p2w.
p2w through zen - you can guarantee about something
p2w through the lfeet - you may get a bump deal and all your ec / dill gone.
That's the real reason why many who support fleet gears (like the guy who wrote about Vesta) want to nerf this - because that will mean fleet can no longer charge an arm and a leg; they lost the advantage.
But sometimes, way that topple the market can be a good thing.
Phew... English is not your strongest suit it seems...
That aside though: I personally would agree if you want to make the argument that gating so much of the best stuff behind Fleet Progression is an obnoxious pain and requires massive amounts of resources for someone to obtain it making it a massive headache.
I would personally like it a lot more if Fleets offered the various areas as nice social zones, gave us greater ability to get Dilithium, EC, EXP, Costumes/Ship Materials, GPL, Rep, and needed defending against NPC attacks occasionally to keep them up and running and against Players if you flag your fleet for PvP instances.
As fleets are now they are just a grind fest of epic proportion to get some of the best things in the game.
However... It is too late to argue about P2W. This game has been P2W for a LONG time now.
Choking the federation is a bit hyperbolic don't you think?
And who is going to write a gearing guide that focuses on second/third/fourth best gear?
Do you PvP? If not then it probably doesn't matter what gear you get for your ship. If you want to be Tanky in a HEC then maybe look to one of the sets that has a covariant shield, and mix in as many sci/eng heals as possible, with a couple Tac Teams to maintain that buff as well. But the HEC is really an escort, so there are going to be limits to that.
If you don't seriously PvP you can can pretty much build your ship as you like. I was Going for a Maco/Borg Adapted set on my HEC, with phaser, before I stopped playing Fed side for my new Rom main. I got a Fleet Mogai for him and plan on going Romulan Prototype/Singularity Harness on him. Its not the most uber setup, but its more than adequate and its fund for me.
To the OP I asked for help on this board and never got it.I learned a lot on my own but then again I doknow somethig from other rpgs and trek game I've played.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers