I also have died to mines on the spawn from this, which I'm sure must have been you, I'll be watching the spawn more with my B'rel when you are around and dropping an AA just before reset or using GW or AMS.
So I was having fun with Minimax last night. He changed from "Emoe" to his old Minimax just for me and of course, tried to ambush me with the usual Minimax tactics. Except he died, not once but three times. I counter his PSW with APO and VM with ET. And he was stuck in a sea of Yellowstone who are as big as his ship, lol, so I switched pets to the Elite Scorpion to give Mini a chance. He was sad because he died to BO three times! This is what happens when his tactics have been adapted and improved. Yes, I felt like a Borg last night, for which he wants me to assimilate him.
Cruising along, all of sudden I was ambushed by a stealthy Sci B'Rel using all the broken stuff you can imagine like SS with subnuke effect, VM + system manager effect, lots of mines, and AMS, the frown up console in PvP. You guess it, it's the dear : marc8219 in his...uh, I mean "her" ship named : <<I Hate Web Mines>> It took me a while to figure out why this B'Rel is coming after me with such "anger". But a Sci B'rel doesn't kill, it's just nuisance. So I switched back to my Yellowstone pets again, after a few try and while being AMS, my pets caught (Yellowstone + a Bio-Molecular warhead that dishes out 4000+ dps per second) and killed <<I Hate Web Mines>>. But because I was being AMS, I couldn't take a screenshot. I will have my chance. marc8219 became "Tala" and proceed to ambush Fed farmers with all the same broken tactics like abuse of AMS. At last justice was served in these death screenshots :
Tala was hit by Plasma Energy Bolt and vaporized into dust. Not once was he uh..."she" hit by the Web mines. Of course, that didn't stop the whining. "She" complained about getting "ganked" in chat. She wasn't. "Her" ship was attacking a Fed farmer, I spotted it and rescued the farmer by alpha "her". But I suppose that's considered "ganking", in Kerrat no less.
Lesson : Whiners will whine about anything and everything. If it's not web mines, it's something else. Next thing you know, it's the slow moving plasma energy bolt that needs to be nerfed. :rolleyes: For such a fast ship to be hit by a super slow moving torp is just stupid. It's neither invisible or stealthy and it makes a lot of noise. In other words, even if the Web Mines are no longer cloaked, shine like Christmas trees and sing like parrots, some people will still be hit by them.
So I was having fun with Minimax last night. He changed from "Emoe" to his old Minimax just for me and of course, tried to ambush me with the usual Minimax tactics. Except he died, not once but three times. I counter his PSW with APO and VM with ET. And he was stuck in a sea of Yellowstone who are as big as his ship, lol, so I switched pets to the Elite Scorpion to give Mini a chance . He was sad because he died to BO three times! This is what happens when his tactics have been adapted and improved. Yes, I felt like a Borg last night, for which he wants me to assimilate him.
I'd facepalm at that but Im affraid Ill miss the awesome skills those npcs ...I mean player controlled pets have :rolleyes:
these guys cant see that 3 or 4 seconds stunned is enough for a tac to rip through any shields and slplit you into two, im not even talking about the damage, the free stun ( i say free because its a powerfull stun and it doesnt require speccing ) is more than enough to give people a reason to find these mines broken
they are even worse than tb mines with a lower cooldown
these guys cant see that 3 or 4 seconds stunned is enough for a tac to rip through any shields and slplit you into two, im not even talking about the damage, the free stun ( i say free because its a powerfull stun and it doesnt require speccing ) is more than enough to give people a reason to find these mines broken
they are even worse than tb mines with a lower cooldown
Originally you were arguing that it was the damage that needed nerfing, now you have changed your tune? Maybe thats because time has passed and people are just countering them now, like i have been seeing? I hardly kill anyone with them now.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Originally you were arguing that it was the damage that needed nerfing, now you have changed your tune? Maybe thats because time has passed and people are just countering them now, like i have been seeing?
yea people counter them with [Nothing]x3 [Good luck]x500 universal console.
yea people counter them with [Nothing]x3 [Good luck]x500 universal console.
Like that's something new in your case.
Edna - You don't even know me. When i want your opinion i will give it to you. Clearly your lack of any intelligent reply shows you are just a very poor troll, and have nothing to contribute of any substance. Like that's something new in your case...
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're the guy who ignored me last night (don't feel like naming names), after I started scolding you for 'announcing' every time you managed to kill Tala (whether it be alone or with 1-2 other people helping).
If that's the case, your Ker'rat Medal of Douchebaggery is still waiting for you
So I was having fun with Minimax last night. He changed from "Emoe" to his old Minimax just for me and of course, tried to ambush me with the usual Minimax tactics. Except he died, not once but three times. I counter his PSW with APO and VM with ET. And he was stuck in a sea of Yellowstone who are as big as his ship, lol, so I switched pets to the Elite Scorpion to give Mini a chance. He was sad because he died to BO three times! This is what happens when his tactics have been adapted and improved. Yes, I felt like a Borg last night, for which he wants me to assimilate him.
Cruising along, all of sudden I was ambushed by a stealthy Sci B'Rel using all the broken stuff you can imagine like SS with subnuke effect, VM + system manager effect, lots of mines, and AMS, the frown up console in PvP. You guess it, it's the dear : marc8219 in his...uh, I mean "her" ship named : <<I Hate Web Mines>> It took me a while to figure out why this B'Rel is coming after me with such "anger". But a Sci B'rel doesn't kill, it's just nuisance. So I switched back to my Yellowstone pets again, after a few try and while being AMS, my pets caught (Yellowstone + a Bio-Molecular warhead that dishes out 4000+ dps per second) and killed <<I Hate Web Mines>>. But because I was being AMS, I couldn't take a screenshot. I will have my chance. marc8219 became "Tala" and proceed to ambush Fed farmers with all the same broken tactics like abuse of AMS. At last justice was served in these death screenshots :
Tala was hit by Plasma Energy Bolt and vaporized into dust. Not once was he uh..."she" hit by the Web mines. Of course, that didn't stop the whining. "She" complained about getting "ganked" in chat. She wasn't. "Her" ship was attacking a Fed farmer, I spotted it and rescued the farmer by alpha "her". But I suppose that's considered "ganking", in Kerrat no less.
Lesson : Whiners will whine about anything and everything. If it's not web mines, it's something else. Next thing you know, it's the slow moving plasma energy bolt that needs to be nerfed. :rolleyes: For such a fast ship to be hit by a super slow moving torp is just stupid. It's neither invisible or stealthy and it makes a lot of noise. In other words, even if the Web Mines are no longer cloaked, shine like Christmas trees and sing like parrots, some people will still be hit by them.
This is excellent.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.
This may be a reason why we report so many different results. It's possible that this strength increase may result from the methods some people use in tandem with these mines, which results in some "shrugging them off" and others being OMGWTFBBQed.
Anyway, guys, time to cool off. Neither side is making themselves look very good. To an outsider, everyone would look equally egotistical and unkind. At least we managed to get this stuff looked at to fix the bug, eh? Time to shake hands and make up.
Oh, and on a different note, please tell us what 'ganking' means to you before calling people out on it. Different people can have different ideas of what it means, and it's gonna lead to misunderstandings more often than not.
Then you don't know these 2 at all. More than just laying mines, they just camp at the Kerrat spawn the whole time and they watch the timer carefully. At precisely 8 sec to reset, one will start to circle around with warp plasma, all over. Even a B'rel trying to drop in AA just before reset will be detected by the mines and pursue. If close enough, you'll be tractor by cloaked mines and stuck & kaboom. There are cloaked mines all over near the spawn point, in addition to regular mines. The amount of mines spamed there is breathtaking to see, I don't know how they do it. I was in fact the one who introduced them to web mines. At one time, prior to the OP starting to use web mines. I camp at the spawn with them, offering them protection from ambushers knowing that angry Klignons are lurking in the dark. I told them in the chat what are some of weaknesses of their mine net, which they weren't aware. I said beware a few Kromulan will try to ram the net with Molecular Phase Inverter as they weren't using web mines yet at that point. Moments later a Klink ram the net and scream: "Eat my Molecular Phase Inverter!" So I started to lay web mines on top of their mine net. Next thing you know, a Klink was caught in the web and killed. So I told the OP: "Web mine is your counter to this net ramming tactic, its damage is physical, can't be resisted with kinetic immunity" The OP replied: "Must get these web mines now..."
Its easy enough to watch the timer myself to you know, and I have countered their warp plasma setupp before mines many times with all the sci spam you mention me using on you later. I was 1 of the original kerrat spawn miners with tricobalt, I know all the tricks.
Cruising along, all of sudden I was ambushed by a stealthy Sci B'Rel using all the broken stuff you can imagine like SS with subnuke effect, VM + system manager effect, lots of mines, and AMS, the frown up console in PvP. You guess it, it's the dear : marc8219 in his...uh, I mean "her" ship named : <<I Hate Web Mines>> It took me a while to figure out why this B'Rel is coming after me with such "anger". But a Sci B'rel doesn't kill, it's just nuisance. So I switched back to my Yellowstone pets again, after a few try and while being AMS, my pets caught (Yellowstone + a Bio-Molecular warhead that dishes out 4000+ dps per second) and killed <<I Hate Web Mines>>. But because I was being AMS, I couldn't take a screenshot. I will have my chance. marc8219 became "Tala" and proceed to ambush Fed farmers with all the same broken tactics like abuse of AMS. At last justice was served in these death screenshots :
Tala was hit by Plasma Energy Bolt and vaporized into dust. Not once was he uh..."she" hit by the Web mines. Of course, that didn't stop the whining. "She" complained about getting "ganked" in chat. She wasn't. "Her" ship was attacking a Fed farmer, I spotted it and rescued the farmer by alpha "her". But I suppose that's considered "ganking", in Kerrat no less.
.
Congrajulations you got a kill on me without web mines, it only took your scimitar working in tandem with other romulans and waiting cloaked for me to do an ambush and wasting all my cooldowns to kill my 24k hull bop, while im never scared to decloak and ambush people knowing Romulans are out there waiting for me. It only took you like 4 or 5 tries, its funny how many failed ambushes I see fedroms do with op ship like scimitar. And no I wasnt using AMS to ambush, it was used to escape from people waiting to ambush me after I do my ambush. All of my amushes were solo kills, while you hunt in packs which makes it more of a gank then what I'm doing. Using web mines so much must make you rusty at solo kills without them.
AMS is nowhere near as broken as web mines, at least you can still move and it wears off after a few seconds. By the time Web mines where off, you are dead.
Its not enough that you have a ship as OP as Scimitar or Fleet Mogai with Valdore console, you still need to keep defending your mines, why?
Anyway, guys, time to cool off. Neither side is making themselves look very good. To an outsider, everyone would look equally egotistical and unkind. At least we managed to get this stuff looked at to fix the bug, eh? Time to shake hands and make up.
I was glad hawk weighed in... since there is obviously a confirmed math issue with the mines, I've taken mine off to await the fix. I was happy to slot them as long as it was up in the air (mainly becuase I had mixed results myself).
I feel the need to point out that a lot of you have this utterly insane perception that 'it's okay to have one or two broken things, as long as you don't have three or more broken things'- this is especially embodied by the commentary of "You already have an OP ship, you don't need an OP console", as though it's somehow "okay" to have an OP/Broken item if you only have one.
No.
IF we are going to convince the devs to do another balance pass on the mines, it needs to be focused on the mines only- none of this arguing about people with all the OP ships and gear matters- it's not relevant.
Post experiences, parser logs, and other mine related information. But keep the rest of the whining out of the thread- it's not doing any of us any good. If the mines are broke, then focus on figuring out why and hour, and consistently reproducing that brokenness. Find out what powers might be interacting to make it happen, what gear might be augmenting it.
We already know from Adjudicatorhawk that there's an edge power interaction that causes severe damage variances like the sort we've been seeing. Why not try and nail that down so the devs have less work to do?
Comments
So I was having fun with Minimax last night. He changed from "Emoe" to his old Minimax just for me and of course, tried to ambush me with the usual Minimax tactics. Except he died, not once but three times.
Cruising along, all of sudden I was ambushed by a stealthy Sci B'Rel using all the broken stuff you can imagine like SS with subnuke effect, VM + system manager effect, lots of mines, and AMS, the frown up console in PvP. You guess it, it's the dear : marc8219 in his...uh, I mean "her" ship named : <<I Hate Web Mines>> It took me a while to figure out why this B'Rel is coming after me with such "anger". But a Sci B'rel doesn't kill, it's just nuisance. So I switched back to my Yellowstone pets again, after a few try and while being AMS, my pets caught (Yellowstone + a Bio-Molecular warhead that dishes out 4000+ dps per second) and killed <<I Hate Web Mines>>. But because I was being AMS, I couldn't take a screenshot. I will have my chance. marc8219 became "Tala" and proceed to ambush Fed farmers with all the same broken tactics like abuse of AMS. At last justice was served in these death screenshots :
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903254174109901615/5E59CAC2046B2E948B76FC5464A424E4654D38AF/
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903254174109863034/D790759BA99ECC55AD6E440DC1B1347F213DF9BF/
Tala was hit by Plasma Energy Bolt and vaporized into dust. Not once was he uh..."she" hit by the Web mines. Of course, that didn't stop the whining. "She" complained about getting "ganked" in chat. She wasn't. "Her" ship was attacking a Fed farmer, I spotted it and rescued the farmer by alpha "her". But I suppose that's considered "ganking", in Kerrat no less.
Lesson : Whiners will whine about anything and everything. If it's not web mines, it's something else. Next thing you know, it's the slow moving plasma energy bolt that needs to be nerfed. :rolleyes: For such a fast ship to be hit by a super slow moving torp is just stupid. It's neither invisible or stealthy and it makes a lot of noise. In other words, even if the Web Mines are no longer cloaked, shine like Christmas trees and sing like parrots, some people will still be hit by them.
I'd facepalm at that but Im affraid Ill miss the awesome skills those npcs ...I mean player controlled pets have :rolleyes:
they are even worse than tb mines with a lower cooldown
Originally you were arguing that it was the damage that needed nerfing, now you have changed your tune? Maybe thats because time has passed and people are just countering them now, like i have been seeing? I hardly kill anyone with them now.
yea people counter them with [Nothing]x3 [Good luck]x500 universal console.
Like that's something new in your case.
Edna - You don't even know me. When i want your opinion i will give it to you. Clearly your lack of any intelligent reply shows you are just a very poor troll, and have nothing to contribute of any substance. Like that's something new in your case...
Huh...but I know you ...you are the little troll who wants OP stuffs to get cheap free kills :rolleyes:
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're the guy who ignored me last night (don't feel like naming names), after I started scolding you for 'announcing' every time you managed to kill Tala (whether it be alone or with 1-2 other people helping).
If that's the case, your Ker'rat Medal of Douchebaggery is still waiting for you
This is excellent.
As i said, you don't know me, i don't use web mines anymore. I ran out of tissues to hand out to people crying about them.
This may be a reason why we report so many different results. It's possible that this strength increase may result from the methods some people use in tandem with these mines, which results in some "shrugging them off" and others being OMGWTFBBQed.
Anyway, guys, time to cool off. Neither side is making themselves look very good. To an outsider, everyone would look equally egotistical and unkind. At least we managed to get this stuff looked at to fix the bug, eh? Time to shake hands and make up.
Oh, and on a different note, please tell us what 'ganking' means to you before calling people out on it. Different people can have different ideas of what it means, and it's gonna lead to misunderstandings more often than not.
Its easy enough to watch the timer myself to you know, and I have countered their warp plasma setupp before mines many times with all the sci spam you mention me using on you later. I was 1 of the original kerrat spawn miners with tricobalt, I know all the tricks.
Congrajulations you got a kill on me without web mines, it only took your scimitar working in tandem with other romulans and waiting cloaked for me to do an ambush and wasting all my cooldowns to kill my 24k hull bop, while im never scared to decloak and ambush people knowing Romulans are out there waiting for me. It only took you like 4 or 5 tries, its funny how many failed ambushes I see fedroms do with op ship like scimitar. And no I wasnt using AMS to ambush, it was used to escape from people waiting to ambush me after I do my ambush. All of my amushes were solo kills, while you hunt in packs which makes it more of a gank then what I'm doing. Using web mines so much must make you rusty at solo kills without them.
AMS is nowhere near as broken as web mines, at least you can still move and it wears off after a few seconds. By the time Web mines where off, you are dead.
Its not enough that you have a ship as OP as Scimitar or Fleet Mogai with Valdore console, you still need to keep defending your mines, why?
I was glad hawk weighed in... since there is obviously a confirmed math issue with the mines, I've taken mine off to await the fix. I was happy to slot them as long as it was up in the air (mainly becuase I had mixed results myself).
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
No.
IF we are going to convince the devs to do another balance pass on the mines, it needs to be focused on the mines only- none of this arguing about people with all the OP ships and gear matters- it's not relevant.
Post experiences, parser logs, and other mine related information. But keep the rest of the whining out of the thread- it's not doing any of us any good. If the mines are broke, then focus on figuring out why and hour, and consistently reproducing that brokenness. Find out what powers might be interacting to make it happen, what gear might be augmenting it.
We already know from Adjudicatorhawk that there's an edge power interaction that causes severe damage variances like the sort we've been seeing. Why not try and nail that down so the devs have less work to do?
From the latest patch notes: