I've even felt uncomfortable playing some of the missions, like when a Klingon tries to warn you that the Vulcan ambassador aboard your ship is actually an undine infiltrator, and so you destroy all Klingon ships in the area.
I can comment on this mission because at my level I didn't play the other ones you mentioned yet. This mission was bizarre at the least and needs a lot of re-writing. Like any Starfleet officer I knew something was not quite square with this Vulcan ambassador from the very beginning because he was prone to emotional outbursts, and I was not inclined to trust him. In fact, I would have put him under guard as soon as I got him on my ship, and then I would have found a real Vulcan to mind-meld with him, and then I would have handed him over to the Klingons the first chance I got. When the Klingons showed up, I was looking for the option to hand him over, but, there wasn't one. That's how that mission should have worked.
Having grown up on Space Invaders, Asteroids, Missile Command, and Defender, I enjoy a pew, pew, pew space battle game as much as anyone. I spent hours and hours playing Starfleet Command some years back, but having also delved into the RPG universe a few times, I enjoy more depth also, and to have both in the same game...what a great idea!
I came to STO out of being a Trekkie, not a gamer. What I would really like to see out of STO are missions that proceed in different directions according to the decisions you make instead of the pass-fail, only one right answer, miss a step and get stuck sort of story lines that we have. I don't know how viable this is, but it would be cool.
What I think a lot of you are forgetting is that in STO the Klingons and Feds are at war. This isn't the show where tensions run high or there's friction it's war.
I don't care what 3 or 4 Klingon ships claim when they uncloak in P'jem, it's hostiles in Federation territory, at a planet they should not even be near. And I can't really think of a time in DS9 where Jem'Hadar or Cardassian flotilla's popped up during the Dominion war and Starfleets response was oh hey lets talk to these guys.
The only one I really thought was poorly done was the raid on the Romulan medical base, it was just soooo obvious what was going on, you'd have to be a dolt to think the Admiral was right.
There are some bright spots in the game, that require an ounce of brainpower, and less phaser.
However, 90% of this game, you feel more like Imperial Stormtroopers, enforcing the will of the Emp...errr...Federation on the rest of the galaxy.
An earlier poster's description of the bar fight in Treasure Trading Station says it all. Heck, Starfleet officers might get into some fisticuffs with some rowdy bar pirates, but that's not what we do. We immediately whip out the laser assault mini-gun cannons (Clone Troopers anyone?) and mow them down like good little Stormtroopers.
Perhaps Bioware should have hired the mission writers for STO to work on SWTOR? :cool:
Furthermore, when did we see episodes of Trek (even in the wargasmtastic DS9) where a Starfleet vessel enters a system and destroys 15 ships? Sorry, but that's just not normal! A little dark and psychotic if you ask me.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
And I suppose the numerous complains about the way feds act in a thuggish manner in STO are just 'Cryptic delivering something new and fresh' too by that criteria?
sooooo very this very much this they are doing something fresh
yes starfleet mission could use some more diplomatic resolutions but starfleet in a a heated ware with the klingon army. also starfleet had always had a few trigger happy officers or a wall officier. section is full of rule bending and breaking rules 31 members. also ben sisko punch q and he was willing to use extream when absolutly in a desprate times. janes t kirk bent the rule a lot for a mainline captain and is only only equaled by captian picard for breaking the rules. kirk just broke heavier rules and picard did not break rules too near together. kirk did a lot or rule violation at a time and most serious rule violations in the mid 2280's between star trek 2 the wrath of knan when kirk failed to raise the shields to a ship not responding to hails and star trek 4. though both kirk when order to halt my excelior and picard did disobey dirct orders to join in the borg battle in 2373. only kirk got demoted for disobeying direct orders.
ben sisko should have been at least slammed with a trouble mark got genicide of a maque world.
ben maxwell is a perfect example of a trigger happy starfleet officer after loosing his whole family. also he was a good starship commander but after he disobeyed direct starfleet commands order to return to base and later the commands of sector captian picard. how much more damage could ben maxwell have done if picard did not give the carrdassian gal the comand codes to the uss phinox? an during the domminion war starfleet needed all officers that it could get to fight the war including the bad captiand ben maxwell. i like to think that ben max was refused by starfleet to be recommissioned for the domminion war be instead section 31 recruited ben maxwell into their ranks
With the exception of ships explicitly described as being for limited scientific missions (Oberth, Nova, etc), there's no indication that most Starfleet ships are designed only for 'light' combat. On the contrary we've seen over and over that their exploration ships (Galaxy, Nebula, Sovereign, Excelsior and Constitution in their days) etc, are fully capable of going toe to toe with the dedicated warships of other powers.
It's not an issue of them not building ships that are combat capable, it's that they don't like the idea of building ships that are only capable of combat.
He/she is getting it from the television shows (The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine), as far as the first part goes. And that poster is right on the money.
It took the Dominion War and a second Borg incursion for the Federation to notice the obvious wake up call from their slavish devotion to nonsensical, utopian ideals.
And as far as the Excelsior and Constitution classes go, they were designed as dual purpose vessels from the get-go, and used naval classifications from Earth's wet navies of the past. Starfleet in those days was the military, as well as an exploratory arm, of the UFP. The situation in the second half of the 23rd Century was much as it was in the post-TNG era. (bordered by hostile entities who wanted nothing more than the Federation go the way of the dodo bird).
In other words, they were considered warships and exploration vessels in equal measure. The Galaxy and Nebula, in their day, were considered exploration and diplomatic ships first and foremost. Their tactical capabilities were considered defensive in nature, rather than military. It's all about philosophy rather than design, for the most part.
All of that "not a military organization" TRIBBLE came with the first pajama uniformed seasons of The Next Generation, where you "communicate" your way out of everything, and everybody **** unicorns and pissed stardust.
If anything, Star Trek Online captures more of the essence of the Original Series, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine. It's okay to have ideals to strive for. But when the **** hits the fan, you have to do what you have to do. There is a time to talk and a time to fight. Even in the later seasons of The Next Generation and films, you had Picard and Company acting under that "old-new" philosophy.
He/she is getting it from the television shows (The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine), as far as the first part goes. And that poster is right on the money.
It took the Dominion War and a second Borg incursion for the Federation to notice the obvious wake up call from their slavish devotion to nonsensical, utopian ideals.
And as far as the Excelsior and Constitution classes go, they were designed as dual purpose vessels from the get-go, and used naval classifications from Earth's wet navies of the past. Starfleet in those days was the military, as well as an exploratory arm, of the UFP. The situation in the second half of the 23rd Century was much as it was in the post-TNG era. (bordered by hostile entities who wanted nothing more than the Federation go the way of the dodo bird).
In other words, they were considered warships and exploration vessels in equal measure. The Galaxy and Nebula, in their day, were considered exploration and diplomatic ships first and foremost. Their tactical capabilities were considered defensive in nature, rather than military. It's all about philosophy rather than design, for the most part.
All of that "not a military organization" TRIBBLE came with the first pajama uniformed seasons of The Next Generation, where you "communicate" your way out of everything, and everybody **** unicorns and pissed stardust.
If anything, Star Trek Online captures more of the essence of the Original Series, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine. It's okay to have ideals to strive for. But when the **** hits the fan, you have to do what you have to do. There is a time to talk and a time to fight. Even in the later seasons of The Next Generation and films, you had Picard and Company acting under that "old-new" philosophy.
Agreed, for a long time the Federation has been allowed to be utopian. The Romulans hid in their territory, the Klingons were recovering from Praxis, the Cardassians weren't a big threat yet. The Federation didn't have to deal with anything bigger than the occasional squabble or border skirmish. Now they're beset on all sides by hostile forces and threats (especially in the STO universe), and they're dragging their feet when it comes to militarization, even though having a lot of ships purely devoted to fighting their enemies (ships like the Defiant class, various attack ships, and attack cruisers like the Akira) would do them a lot of good
What I think a lot of you are forgetting is that in STO the Klingons and Feds are at war. This isn't the show where tensions run high or there's friction it's war.
I don't care what 3 or 4 Klingon ships claim when they uncloak in P'jem, it's hostiles in Federation territory, at a planet they should not even be near. And I can't really think of a time in DS9 where Jem'Hadar or Cardassian flotilla's popped up during the Dominion war and Starfleets response was oh hey lets talk to these guys.
The only one I really thought was poorly done was the raid on the Romulan medical base, it was just soooo obvious what was going on, you'd have to be a dolt to think the Admiral was right.
Where, I ask you, is this war? Besides the missions which consist of shooting bazillion of Fed/Klng ships which feel like a shooting range anyway there is so much cross-faction content, you are constantly working together and do the same assignments - the whole fed-kling war is a farce, caused by - DUN-DUN-DDDUN - alien spies. I can't feel the "war" and neither do I buy the undine reason for it (seriously, shapeshifters causes chaos amongst alpha quadrant species? AGAIN? lol).
The portrayal of all factions involved in STO is immensly flawed. Even the Klingons who may be better suited for action-heavy gameplay are brutes, idiots and cowards, constantly performing acts of assasination and espionage.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I came to STO out of being a Trekkie, not a gamer.
As far as I am concerned, this is the core issue, nothing else.
So many ''trekkies'' are attracted by this game, people with barely any experience in games, let alone MMO's, then proceeding to state everything is wrong and needs to be made the way it was in ''the shows''.
I can understand the point of view of those people, but it simply isn't viable to completely reduce combat to a ''sometimes happens'', an MMO like this thrives on it's combat systems, why else do you think this game has a story point of the KDF and Federation being at total war with each other, not to mention that the Federation is at the very least in a state of cold war with just about every other major faction in Trek.
This is an action based MMO, not an exploration or investigative game, though Cryptic has been improving these latter aspects in newer missions a lot.
I do support more of these missions, but to claim combat needs to be nearly removed from the game or always non-lethal, simply isn't going to happen.
I don't care what 3 or 4 Klingon ships claim when they uncloak in P'jem, it's hostiles in Federation territory, at a planet they should not even be near.
When I'm at war with them and they don't shoot me I'm willing to listen ESPECIALLY where Klingons are concerned. There should at least be the option to investigate, prove/disprove such serious accusations, if you wanna blow'em up then sure but you're under orders to maintain peace on the planet, the last thing I want is to be responsible on my second day of command for a shape-shifter to slip the net.
Basically I think the ability to chose your path and have your choices have some kind of lasting effect as per SWTOR would be a nice addition to the game and might get me to replay some old missions.
I agree as well. Some of the missions just wasn't Star Fleet at all. I can see it being a Romulan or Klingon. At least give you the option to talk or just kill. So a player can create their own path. They told that the missions are going to be reworked on the Federation side in the future. I hope they change some of these, where you not acting like the Feds.
I agree with this. If they rework the Federation missions, they must add the option to set phasers to stun on ground and disable ships in space. So the ones that get their fix from blowing up and pew pew can do it, but the players that want to play a Starfleet captain and not a G.I.Joe can choose a different path.
...If anything, Star Trek Online captures more of the essence of the Original Series, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine. It's okay to have ideals to strive for. But when the **** hits the fan, you have to do what you have to do. There is a time to talk and a time to fight. Even in the later seasons of The Next Generation and films, you had Picard and Company acting under that "old-new" philosophy.
Hmmmm....let me see....I go on an exploration mission. My ship's scanners detect an unusuall energy reading from a planet, so I beam down with my away team. We find a strange new plant that releases this strange energy and then....
First Officer: "Captain, I have just detected Metzielen lifesigns on my tricoder. I don't know what they want or if they're here for the plant as well, but let's just slaughter them all so we can pick the flowers in peace after that!"
I agree with this. If they rework the Federation missions, they must add the option to set phasers to stun on ground and disable ships in space. So the ones that get their fix from blowing up and pew pew can do it, but the players that want to play a Starfleet captain and not a G.I.Joe can choose a different path.
Hmmmm....let me see....I go on an exploration mission. My ship's scanners detect an unusuall energy reading from a planet, so I beam down with my away team. We find a strange new plant that releases this strage energy and then....
First Officer: "Captain, I have just detected Metzielen lifesigns on my tricoder. I don't know what they want or if they're here for the plant as well, but let's just slaughter them all so we can pick the flowers in peace after that!"
Does this qualify as **** hitting the fan??
As long as it's optional I can agree with that, choice is good in a matter like this.
Forcing people like me to play in a pacifist manner, is not.
As long as it's optional I can agree with that, choice is good in a matter like this.
Forcing people like me to play in a pacifist manner, is not.
Ofcourse that it shouldn't be forced. After all, it's up to the captain's assesment of the situation to decide how to act and wheather he/she thinks that blowing up the enemy in a certain situation is absolutely necessary or not.
I also understand that this is an MMO and I'm familiar with what the average MMO crowd is like, so I wouldn't take the blowing up and pew pew completely away. The game needs more players and it should be interesting to a wider part of the gaming population in order to grow and evolve. But, this game at the same time is Star Trek MMO.
I really like STO and find it fun, but to be honest I probably wouldn't try this game if it wasn't Star Trek back then when I joined. That made me interested enough to give it a try. I can imagine a big number of people trying it out for the same reasons. There are a lot gamers and MMO fans playing STO, but there is also a big number of Star Trek fans in this game and the latter should have the option to act more merciful and a bit more in line from what we saw in the shows.
Personally, I'm a Trek fan and the number of people I have killed as a Fed in this game is staggering. There are encounters where I agree that it is a must, but there are also missions where I feel more like the evil vilain than a Starfleet officer.
Ofcourse that it shouldn't be forced. After all, it's up to the captain's assesment of the situation to decide how to act and wheather he/she thinks that blowing up the enemy in a certain situation is absolutely necessary or not.
I also understand that this is an MMO and I'm familiar with what the average MMO crowd is like, so I wouldn't take the blowing up and pew pew completely away. The game needs more players and it should be interesting to a wider part of the gaming population in order to grow and evolve. But, this game at the same time is Star Trek MMO.
I really like STO and find it fun, but to be honest I probably wouldn't try this game if it wasn't Star Trek back then when I joined. That made me interested enough to give it a try. I can imagine a big number of people trying it out for the same reasons. There are a lot gamers and MMO fans playing STO, but there is also a big number of Star Trek fans in this game and the latter should have the option to act more merciful and a bit more in line from what we saw in the shows.
Personally, I'm a Trek fan and the number of people I have killed as a Fed in this game is staggering. There are encounters where I agree that it is a must, but there are also missions where I feel more like the evil vilain than a Starfleet officer.
Valid points that I can agree with, especially the bolded part, since indeed, there ARE situations where a more.. careful approach is preferable, even I, an MMO veteran found the Romulan medical facility mission with that undine admiral to be.. overboard, especially with constant lines like ''Why is the Federation here?''
But yeah, I see no issue with the possibility to stun or disable, as long as it's to the captain's discretion and not something that ''Trekkies'' feel should be forced upon everyone.
I for one want an enemy to drop dead or go boom when I best them, but then, I see an enemy in an MMO, something with a red name that stands in the way of getting my objective done rather then an NPC/person to interact with.
Well said! Even if KDF is the minority of the players the game itself seems more suited for Klingons or Tal Shiar Romulans (non-spineless ones) than Federation.
I double facepalm everytime I do "Divide et Impera" because it's obvious something is wrong with Zelle and yet mission continues...
And what does Starfleet and the Federation do after discovering that a Starfleet Admiral was an Undine Infiltrator?
It doesn't have you stop and begin an investigation. It doesn't do a sweep through itself looking for infiltration.
No, what does Starfleet have you do? Go kill more Romulans who had absolutely nothing to do with what the original mission was. They send you to Romulan space to provoke an attack... in Romulan space! A sovereign power that they were not supposed to be in war with!
At least with the Klingon missions, as few as they may be, are believable in what the Klingons may do.
Hmmmm....let me see....I go on an exploration mission. My ship's scanners detect an unusuall energy reading from a planet, so I beam down with my away team. We find a strange new plant that releases this strange energy and then....
First Officer: "Captain, I have just detected Metzielen lifesigns on my tricoder. I don't know what they want or if they're here for the plant as well, but let's just slaughter them all so we can pick the flowers in peace after that!"
Does this qualify as **** hitting the fan??
Yes. I keep walking up to talk to them and see what their intentions are but they just shoot at me when they see me. So I respond with the language they seem to understand.
Yes. I keep walking up to talk to them and see what their intentions are but they just shoot at me when they see me. So I respond with the language they seem to understand.
That was not the point here. The point is that there are better ways it can be done.
They have me investigate the amount of dilithium on a planet, then my first notices that Starkellen landed and insists of slaughtering them because "Starfleet needs the dilithium?" and at the end of the mission it's like "Oh, well, there's not so much dilithium on this planet after all. We slaughtered all those people in vain. Bugger."
If the mission absolutely has to have me killing the alien species, at least it should be made so they initate the first act of agression, like their leader appearing on my screen and starts threatening me and promising to kill us and the conflict to be about something relevant like civilian lives and not plants or something that might or might not be there.
That would be more apropriate for Feds. than having my First Officer behave like a bloodthirsty psycho-vilain.
As far as I am concerned, this is the core issue, nothing else.
So many ''trekkies'' are attracted by this game, people with barely any experience in games, let alone MMO's, then proceeding to state everything is wrong and needs to be made the way it was in ''the shows''.
I can understand the point of view of those people, but it simply isn't viable to completely reduce combat to a ''sometimes happens'', an MMO like this thrives on it's combat systems, why else do you think this game has a story point of the KDF and Federation being at total war with each other, not to mention that the Federation is at the very least in a state of cold war with just about every other major faction in Trek.
This is an action based MMO, not an exploration or investigative game, though Cryptic has been improving these latter aspects in newer missions a lot.
I do support more of these missions, but to claim combat needs to be nearly removed from the game or always non-lethal, simply isn't going to happen.
Thanks to a recent Steam sale, I've been playing a lot of The Secret World. The investigation missions in that game are a very good example of the type of gameplay STO could benefit from. While there is combat involved in some of those missions, the conflict is mostly secondary to the investigation (something you discover makes someone mad). There is no reason STO has to continue to be "like every other MMO" just because. Combat gameplay is the easy way out.
Thanks to a recent Steam sale, I've been playing a lot of The Secret World. The investigation missions in that game are a very good example of the type of gameplay STO could benefit from. While there is combat involved in some of those missions, the conflict is mostly secondary to the investigation (something you discover makes someone mad). There is no reason STO has to continue to be "like every other MMO" just because. Combat gameplay is the easy way out.
The difference is that it has been that way in The Secret World from the get go.
I've been playing that myself as well, STO on the other hand was made as a combat focussed MMO.
The difference is that it has been that way in The Secret World from the get go.
I've been playing that myself as well, STO on the other hand was made as a combat focussed MMO.
I don't see how they have to be mutually exclusive.
TSW has dungeons, raids, etc. It has a full suite of combat skills and combat-oriented gameplay. The only difference is that they spent some time and effort to provide a new and setting-appropriate way for players to interact with the world. Why is that not possible here? The engine can handle it.
STO experimented with this when they added the First Contact missions--but that stopped. There's been no serious effort made to integrate non-combat gameplay that doesn't involve throwing numerous currencies at a menu.
As I always love to say, they may as well turn the Federation faction into a Terran Empire faction, as that is essentially how the missions have us act, all we need is orbital bombardment to complete it.
Thats who my character is anyway so I would be fine with that
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We're actually seeing what starfleet missions should be in the missions for the Romulans.
Two missions come to mind.
The one where we explore the new Romulus before colonization.
The one where we (as an engineer) try to save the conference location from sabotage by fixing things and disarming traps.
If they have more missions like that on the Fed side it would make more sense but we don't most of the missions and indeed the explorations don't have "duck blinds" or "exploration of the planet's surface" or "helping a colony fix their Xwhatever" the last one is what we saw ALOT in TNG Geordi was always on some planet fixing something.
Heck even as a Doctor I never have missions where I can beam to a planet in exploration zones and heal the sick. There's like 2 missions like this 1 back in time and 1 healing the deferi. That's it.
So one has to wonder why did they make this game so blood thirsty?
Another mission that comes to mind is cold case. There is one point where a couple breen ships have a piece of the data you need and are trying to run away. Instead of tractoring them and hailing them, the first thing you do is open fire. Your bridge officer even remarks afterwards that they were running and didn't seem ready for a fight. Shooting down someone as they run away sound more Klingon or Romulan than Federation.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Harden up Princess Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website: www.ausmonauts.com
As a "Trekkie"(Why is this suddenly viewed as a bad thing?)and a gamer, I would like to have the options some of you have posted. It would be nice to be able to "Target their weapon arrays" and then see if they really wanted to discuss this unpleasant situation a little further. But some opponents simply cannot be reasoned with. Someone once said diplomacy was saying, 'Good Dog' while at the same time feeling around for a big stick.
STO has a lot more in common with TOS than it does with TNG. The Klingons and the Romulans were enemies of the Federation in TOS. While there may not have been any active shooting going on, the possibility for it always existed. The cross faction stuff is acceptable as well. Go watch the TOS episode Day of the Dove. Now, tell me Starfleet and KDF cannot join forces to defeat an enemy neither can defeat by themselves.
Overall, this is good game. It has the right toys and hits enough of the right chords to feel Star Trek enough for me. But STO isn't set in the TNG time frame. The people who create the story lines for STO are not the same people who wrote for TNG. The executive producers are not the same either. So STO cannot be TNG Online. I don't think I'd want it to be DS9 Online or Voyager Online either. I'd like the option to be able to talk my way out of a fight once in awhile. However, as a Starfleet captain, I have a duty to preserve and protect the Federation. All of it. Not just the parts I prefer. As it is right now, STO allows me to do this more often than not.
Whew! Too serious! Need some yuks to break the tension. And here they are.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Another mission that comes to mind is cold case. There is one point where a couple breen ships have a piece of the data you need and are trying to run away. Instead of tractoring them and hailing them, the first thing you do is open fire. Your bridge officer even remarks afterwards that they were running and didn't seem ready for a fight. Shooting down someone as they run away sound more Klingon or Romulan than Federation.
Hmm, to be honest this mission is in a bit of a grey area for me. I can see where it would be un-Starfleet like to shoot ships running away. At the same time though the Breen have been attacking and killing/enslaving Deferi citizens, attacked my ship and put my crew in danger several times already, and even sent agents to kill me while Thot Trel boasts about how said agents are going to kill me. They have shown that they have no intentions of diplomacy. By the time I get to those Breen ships, my patience has run out. So when I see them running away with the piece of the puzzle that I need, my first reaction was "FIRE EVERYTHING."
What I would do with this mission is add in something like what the Roms have in their missions. For example in the mission where you're tracking the weapons dealer to a colony you get an option to either hail the Hirogen in orbit or just start shooting them. That way you could at least attempt diplomacy for the more understanding Starfleet officers, while leaving a way for those of us who have no more patience with the Breen to just blow them away.
There is not a single Trek game \I have played that has not been combat orientated and I have played everything from ST Invasion to Legacy to Bridge Commander.
The only option I have ever seen was in bridge commander when you had to disable the warp engines on the ferengi ship.
Also in the mission when you meet the dominion you are given the choice whether to kill the ferengi ship or let him go. so more of those could be a good thing for the feds who want less killing disabling and more choices.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
I can comment on this mission because at my level I didn't play the other ones you mentioned yet. This mission was bizarre at the least and needs a lot of re-writing. Like any Starfleet officer I knew something was not quite square with this Vulcan ambassador from the very beginning because he was prone to emotional outbursts, and I was not inclined to trust him. In fact, I would have put him under guard as soon as I got him on my ship, and then I would have found a real Vulcan to mind-meld with him, and then I would have handed him over to the Klingons the first chance I got. When the Klingons showed up, I was looking for the option to hand him over, but, there wasn't one. That's how that mission should have worked.
Having grown up on Space Invaders, Asteroids, Missile Command, and Defender, I enjoy a pew, pew, pew space battle game as much as anyone. I spent hours and hours playing Starfleet Command some years back, but having also delved into the RPG universe a few times, I enjoy more depth also, and to have both in the same game...what a great idea!
I came to STO out of being a Trekkie, not a gamer. What I would really like to see out of STO are missions that proceed in different directions according to the decisions you make instead of the pass-fail, only one right answer, miss a step and get stuck sort of story lines that we have. I don't know how viable this is, but it would be cool.
I don't care what 3 or 4 Klingon ships claim when they uncloak in P'jem, it's hostiles in Federation territory, at a planet they should not even be near. And I can't really think of a time in DS9 where Jem'Hadar or Cardassian flotilla's popped up during the Dominion war and Starfleets response was oh hey lets talk to these guys.
The only one I really thought was poorly done was the raid on the Romulan medical base, it was just soooo obvious what was going on, you'd have to be a dolt to think the Admiral was right.
There are some bright spots in the game, that require an ounce of brainpower, and less phaser.
However, 90% of this game, you feel more like Imperial Stormtroopers, enforcing the will of the Emp...errr...Federation on the rest of the galaxy.
An earlier poster's description of the bar fight in Treasure Trading Station says it all. Heck, Starfleet officers might get into some fisticuffs with some rowdy bar pirates, but that's not what we do. We immediately whip out the laser assault mini-gun cannons (Clone Troopers anyone?) and mow them down like good little Stormtroopers.
Perhaps Bioware should have hired the mission writers for STO to work on SWTOR? :cool:
Furthermore, when did we see episodes of Trek (even in the wargasmtastic DS9) where a Starfleet vessel enters a system and destroys 15 ships? Sorry, but that's just not normal! A little dark and psychotic if you ask me.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
sooooo very this very much this they are doing something fresh
system Lord Baal is dead
ben sisko should have been at least slammed with a trouble mark got genicide of a maque world.
ben maxwell is a perfect example of a trigger happy starfleet officer after loosing his whole family. also he was a good starship commander but after he disobeyed direct starfleet commands order to return to base and later the commands of sector captian picard. how much more damage could ben maxwell have done if picard did not give the carrdassian gal the comand codes to the uss phinox? an during the domminion war starfleet needed all officers that it could get to fight the war including the bad captiand ben maxwell. i like to think that ben max was refused by starfleet to be recommissioned for the domminion war be instead section 31 recruited ben maxwell into their ranks
He/she is getting it from the television shows (The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine), as far as the first part goes. And that poster is right on the money.
It took the Dominion War and a second Borg incursion for the Federation to notice the obvious wake up call from their slavish devotion to nonsensical, utopian ideals.
And as far as the Excelsior and Constitution classes go, they were designed as dual purpose vessels from the get-go, and used naval classifications from Earth's wet navies of the past. Starfleet in those days was the military, as well as an exploratory arm, of the UFP. The situation in the second half of the 23rd Century was much as it was in the post-TNG era. (bordered by hostile entities who wanted nothing more than the Federation go the way of the dodo bird).
In other words, they were considered warships and exploration vessels in equal measure. The Galaxy and Nebula, in their day, were considered exploration and diplomatic ships first and foremost. Their tactical capabilities were considered defensive in nature, rather than military. It's all about philosophy rather than design, for the most part.
All of that "not a military organization" TRIBBLE came with the first pajama uniformed seasons of The Next Generation, where you "communicate" your way out of everything, and everybody **** unicorns and pissed stardust.
If anything, Star Trek Online captures more of the essence of the Original Series, Voyager, and Deep Space Nine. It's okay to have ideals to strive for. But when the **** hits the fan, you have to do what you have to do. There is a time to talk and a time to fight. Even in the later seasons of The Next Generation and films, you had Picard and Company acting under that "old-new" philosophy.
Agreed, for a long time the Federation has been allowed to be utopian. The Romulans hid in their territory, the Klingons were recovering from Praxis, the Cardassians weren't a big threat yet. The Federation didn't have to deal with anything bigger than the occasional squabble or border skirmish. Now they're beset on all sides by hostile forces and threats (especially in the STO universe), and they're dragging their feet when it comes to militarization, even though having a lot of ships purely devoted to fighting their enemies (ships like the Defiant class, various attack ships, and attack cruisers like the Akira) would do them a lot of good
Where, I ask you, is this war? Besides the missions which consist of shooting bazillion of Fed/Klng ships which feel like a shooting range anyway there is so much cross-faction content, you are constantly working together and do the same assignments - the whole fed-kling war is a farce, caused by - DUN-DUN-DDDUN - alien spies. I can't feel the "war" and neither do I buy the undine reason for it (seriously, shapeshifters causes chaos amongst alpha quadrant species? AGAIN? lol).
The portrayal of all factions involved in STO is immensly flawed. Even the Klingons who may be better suited for action-heavy gameplay are brutes, idiots and cowards, constantly performing acts of assasination and espionage.
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As far as I am concerned, this is the core issue, nothing else.
So many ''trekkies'' are attracted by this game, people with barely any experience in games, let alone MMO's, then proceeding to state everything is wrong and needs to be made the way it was in ''the shows''.
I can understand the point of view of those people, but it simply isn't viable to completely reduce combat to a ''sometimes happens'', an MMO like this thrives on it's combat systems, why else do you think this game has a story point of the KDF and Federation being at total war with each other, not to mention that the Federation is at the very least in a state of cold war with just about every other major faction in Trek.
This is an action based MMO, not an exploration or investigative game, though Cryptic has been improving these latter aspects in newer missions a lot.
I do support more of these missions, but to claim combat needs to be nearly removed from the game or always non-lethal, simply isn't going to happen.
When I'm at war with them and they don't shoot me I'm willing to listen ESPECIALLY where Klingons are concerned. There should at least be the option to investigate, prove/disprove such serious accusations, if you wanna blow'em up then sure but you're under orders to maintain peace on the planet, the last thing I want is to be responsible on my second day of command for a shape-shifter to slip the net.
Basically I think the ability to chose your path and have your choices have some kind of lasting effect as per SWTOR would be a nice addition to the game and might get me to replay some old missions.
I agree with this. If they rework the Federation missions, they must add the option to set phasers to stun on ground and disable ships in space. So the ones that get their fix from blowing up and pew pew can do it, but the players that want to play a Starfleet captain and not a G.I.Joe can choose a different path.
Hmmmm....let me see....I go on an exploration mission. My ship's scanners detect an unusuall energy reading from a planet, so I beam down with my away team. We find a strange new plant that releases this strange energy and then....
First Officer: "Captain, I have just detected Metzielen lifesigns on my tricoder. I don't know what they want or if they're here for the plant as well, but let's just slaughter them all so we can pick the flowers in peace after that!"
Does this qualify as **** hitting the fan??
As long as it's optional I can agree with that, choice is good in a matter like this.
Forcing people like me to play in a pacifist manner, is not.
Ofcourse that it shouldn't be forced. After all, it's up to the captain's assesment of the situation to decide how to act and wheather he/she thinks that blowing up the enemy in a certain situation is absolutely necessary or not.
I also understand that this is an MMO and I'm familiar with what the average MMO crowd is like, so I wouldn't take the blowing up and pew pew completely away. The game needs more players and it should be interesting to a wider part of the gaming population in order to grow and evolve. But, this game at the same time is Star Trek MMO.
I really like STO and find it fun, but to be honest I probably wouldn't try this game if it wasn't Star Trek back then when I joined. That made me interested enough to give it a try. I can imagine a big number of people trying it out for the same reasons. There are a lot gamers and MMO fans playing STO, but there is also a big number of Star Trek fans in this game and the latter should have the option to act more merciful and a bit more in line from what we saw in the shows.
Personally, I'm a Trek fan and the number of people I have killed as a Fed in this game is staggering. There are encounters where I agree that it is a must, but there are also missions where I feel more like the evil vilain than a Starfleet officer.
Valid points that I can agree with, especially the bolded part, since indeed, there ARE situations where a more.. careful approach is preferable, even I, an MMO veteran found the Romulan medical facility mission with that undine admiral to be.. overboard, especially with constant lines like ''Why is the Federation here?''
But yeah, I see no issue with the possibility to stun or disable, as long as it's to the captain's discretion and not something that ''Trekkies'' feel should be forced upon everyone.
I for one want an enemy to drop dead or go boom when I best them, but then, I see an enemy in an MMO, something with a red name that stands in the way of getting my objective done rather then an NPC/person to interact with.
And what does Starfleet and the Federation do after discovering that a Starfleet Admiral was an Undine Infiltrator?
It doesn't have you stop and begin an investigation. It doesn't do a sweep through itself looking for infiltration.
No, what does Starfleet have you do? Go kill more Romulans who had absolutely nothing to do with what the original mission was. They send you to Romulan space to provoke an attack... in Romulan space! A sovereign power that they were not supposed to be in war with!
At least with the Klingon missions, as few as they may be, are believable in what the Klingons may do.
Yes. I keep walking up to talk to them and see what their intentions are but they just shoot at me when they see me. So I respond with the language they seem to understand.
That was not the point here. The point is that there are better ways it can be done.
They have me investigate the amount of dilithium on a planet, then my first notices that Starkellen landed and insists of slaughtering them because "Starfleet needs the dilithium?" and at the end of the mission it's like "Oh, well, there's not so much dilithium on this planet after all. We slaughtered all those people in vain. Bugger."
If the mission absolutely has to have me killing the alien species, at least it should be made so they initate the first act of agression, like their leader appearing on my screen and starts threatening me and promising to kill us and the conflict to be about something relevant like civilian lives and not plants or something that might or might not be there.
That would be more apropriate for Feds. than having my First Officer behave like a bloodthirsty psycho-vilain.
Every time someone turns up with a powerful ship we automatically think they are hostile. They hail us. Nah lets not try to make peace, lets shoot.
Kinda like BSG, we dont really trust anyone enough to at least talk to them and negotiate(on fed side)
system Lord Baal is dead
Thanks to a recent Steam sale, I've been playing a lot of The Secret World. The investigation missions in that game are a very good example of the type of gameplay STO could benefit from. While there is combat involved in some of those missions, the conflict is mostly secondary to the investigation (something you discover makes someone mad). There is no reason STO has to continue to be "like every other MMO" just because. Combat gameplay is the easy way out.
The difference is that it has been that way in The Secret World from the get go.
I've been playing that myself as well, STO on the other hand was made as a combat focussed MMO.
I don't see how they have to be mutually exclusive.
TSW has dungeons, raids, etc. It has a full suite of combat skills and combat-oriented gameplay. The only difference is that they spent some time and effort to provide a new and setting-appropriate way for players to interact with the world. Why is that not possible here? The engine can handle it.
STO experimented with this when they added the First Contact missions--but that stopped. There's been no serious effort made to integrate non-combat gameplay that doesn't involve throwing numerous currencies at a menu.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Two missions come to mind.
The one where we explore the new Romulus before colonization.
The one where we (as an engineer) try to save the conference location from sabotage by fixing things and disarming traps.
If they have more missions like that on the Fed side it would make more sense but we don't most of the missions and indeed the explorations don't have "duck blinds" or "exploration of the planet's surface" or "helping a colony fix their Xwhatever" the last one is what we saw ALOT in TNG Geordi was always on some planet fixing something.
Heck even as a Doctor I never have missions where I can beam to a planet in exploration zones and heal the sick. There's like 2 missions like this 1 back in time and 1 healing the deferi. That's it.
So one has to wonder why did they make this game so blood thirsty?
Harden up Princess
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STO has a lot more in common with TOS than it does with TNG. The Klingons and the Romulans were enemies of the Federation in TOS. While there may not have been any active shooting going on, the possibility for it always existed. The cross faction stuff is acceptable as well. Go watch the TOS episode Day of the Dove. Now, tell me Starfleet and KDF cannot join forces to defeat an enemy neither can defeat by themselves.
Overall, this is good game. It has the right toys and hits enough of the right chords to feel Star Trek enough for me. But STO isn't set in the TNG time frame. The people who create the story lines for STO are not the same people who wrote for TNG. The executive producers are not the same either. So STO cannot be TNG Online. I don't think I'd want it to be DS9 Online or Voyager Online either. I'd like the option to be able to talk my way out of a fight once in awhile. However, as a Starfleet captain, I have a duty to preserve and protect the Federation. All of it. Not just the parts I prefer. As it is right now, STO allows me to do this more often than not.
Whew! Too serious! Need some yuks to break the tension. And here they are.
Huh, I never thought of that. Now that you point it out though, some of the Rom missions are more Fed like than the Fed missions. Good catch.
Hmm, to be honest this mission is in a bit of a grey area for me. I can see where it would be un-Starfleet like to shoot ships running away. At the same time though the Breen have been attacking and killing/enslaving Deferi citizens, attacked my ship and put my crew in danger several times already, and even sent agents to kill me while Thot Trel boasts about how said agents are going to kill me. They have shown that they have no intentions of diplomacy. By the time I get to those Breen ships, my patience has run out. So when I see them running away with the piece of the puzzle that I need, my first reaction was "FIRE EVERYTHING."
What I would do with this mission is add in something like what the Roms have in their missions. For example in the mission where you're tracking the weapons dealer to a colony you get an option to either hail the Hirogen in orbit or just start shooting them. That way you could at least attempt diplomacy for the more understanding Starfleet officers, while leaving a way for those of us who have no more patience with the Breen to just blow them away.
Mine Trap Supporter
The only option I have ever seen was in bridge commander when you had to disable the warp engines on the ferengi ship.
Also in the mission when you meet the dominion you are given the choice whether to kill the ferengi ship or let him go. so more of those could be a good thing for the feds who want less killing disabling and more choices.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]