I strongly encourage you to try mining iron without steel, or oil without fuel. Because while these things are technically possible if you can find a suitable deposit, there are a lot of pretty good reasons why they simply aren't done.
Also, if you haven't flown out to take a look, you don't actually have a mine yet. You have a rock, upon which you may begin building a mine. But right now it's a rock, and until you commit the resources to equip and construct the mine it's worth nothing. Once you've done so, you don't need to supply it with dilithium anymore, only refine what you extract.
Iron can be mined without steel (indeed it was for a millennia)
Oil does not need fuel to mine it either
ok so explain why we can't land in an environmental suit and mine the stuff that way?
as we do in another related place?
Also, how did people ever mine dilithium if the process requires dilithium in the first place?
It's possible to mine iron with bronze tools, and bronze is made from much softer metals which itself can be mined with stone tools in a pinch. You will ruin a lot of tools doing it, but you only need to get enough out the hard way to start making replacement tools with it. Iron tools will last much longer, and if you know how to make steel they'll last longer still.
However, if you live in a culture where iron tools are already being produced, you'd be using iron tools from the beginning, at every point in history where iron was discovered, bronze tools fell into disuse in a matter of decades, iron is sufficiently superior that even if you still use for copper and tin, you mine that with iron as well.
It's worth noting that many cultures never actually did mine iron with bronze, though. Some got their start with mteoric or telluric iron, which are both impure and brittle, but still makes stronger tools than bronze and don't need to be smelted. Most, though, traded for it from a culture that had already done the hard work.
Iron can be mined without steel (indeed it was for a millennia)
Oil does not need fuel to mine it either
ok so explain why we can't land in an environmental suit and mine the stuff that way?
as we do in another related place?
haha, first i thought i don't even comment on this, but it got me thinking...
i mean, i have a gazzilion slaves, also called common doffs...i could just use them to do the dirty work, that normally would be done by sofisticated machines...
just like it was done for "millenia"...lol
but let me explain why you need iron to mine iron like i would explain it to a child:
there are many ways to dig in the ground and find iron, you ca do it with your hand which is very tiresome, or with a shovel. now the shovel is made out of iron or some other metal and you can dig for iron much more efficently...but still with the shovel you have the limitation that you get tired after a short time.
now if you had an escavator and some other machines...made of iron...you can dig for much more iron in a much shorter time.
and thats why industrial mining is much more efficent than mining by hand
the same is true for oil, just in a different color.
what you do for the ferengi on that rock is basically slavelabor, and to show off your EV suit.
personally i think that is the stupidest thing ever implemented in sto...admirals mining dilithium by hand...
and never did it anyway, except for the rich dilithium daily.
It's possible to mine iron with bronze tools, and bronze is made from much softer metals which itself can be mined with stone tools in a pinch. You will ruin a lot of tools doing it, but you only need to get enough out the hard way to start making replacement tools with it. Iron tools will last much longer, and if you know how to make steel they'll last longer still.
However, if you live in a culture where iron tools are already being produced, you'd be using iron tools from the beginning, at every point in history where iron was discovered, bronze tools fell into disuse in a matter of decades, iron is sufficiently superior that even if you still use for copper and tin, you mine that with iron as well.
It's worth noting that many cultures never actually did mine iron with bronze, though. Some got their start with mteoric or telluric iron, which are both impure and brittle, but still makes stronger tools than bronze and don't need to be smelted. Most, though, traded for it from a culture that had already done the hard work.
But if we use TACO's own analogy, how many people mine gold with golden shovels?
Dilitium is a moderator for matter-antimatter reactors (and from what I read of little use anywhere else) so what is it useful for in this case?
We've seen refineries (DS9 was one under Cardassian control) and it runs on a fusion reactors because even for refining you don't actually have such a gigantic energy demand.
So even if we are generous and say Dilitium is used to power the mine, the analogy for what you desribe would be someone mining for coal with a coal shovel.
It still doesn't make much sense does it?
I think I know why it is dilithium.
EC is too easy to get, some people invest a lot of money into keys and sell a lot of them making million, even close to a billion EC often. Too easy. You can say the same for dil. too, people buy zen, they trade it in for dil. to help with fleet projects. Not saying this is everyone, but it is not rare. EC you can earn just from selling drops from replaying missions or going through missions again as a new toon. With dil. you have to do STF's, dailies, etc. to get some.
Now GPL, the only way i recall to get a large amount of GPL is to sit at a dabo table for hours(do you really want to to do that?), or at Christmas event some how(once a year)
So the out of the 3, dil make more sense. With EC you would have to raise the requirements into the billions maybe even more. Dil right now is doing fine. latinum requires hours at dabo table, unless cryptic makes another way to get latinum. You can also get EC, Latinum, and dilithium for FREE, *gasp* free? YES, you dont have to spend anything to get them.
Dilithium also helps earn Cryptic money, you guys can say, "greed" all you want. Would you rather them not make money, not put more content in game? It is also a free to play game, what did you expect, most free to play games are like this.
I know ranking up starbases is not easy, but that is the way it is for now. Take your time with it, you dont have to get to tier 5 in 1 month or 1 year. Theres no clock as far as i know.
Getting EC,dil. and GPL, all is a boring process i know. But take it slow, you will get to tier 5 eventually.
Dilithium to build a dilithium base i know makes no sense, but that is the way it s.
Let's roleplay for a second.
You are a lowly human, here on Earth, mining Gold in California in the 1850's.
You have a claim, which you know has a lot of gold in it.
You have a decent amount of gold from your last claim.
You need to buy equipment, to mine your new claim.
What do you buy that equipment with?
You may have a partner, or an employee to help you mine.
What do you pay them in?
All I read was "PR response, blah blah, WE want money, Blah blah, Because most people will convert there Zen to DIL to complete these ridiculous projects with the amount of DIL they cost."
Simple:
1. Mega Fleets are they only ones able to keep up with this.
2. Smaller fleets are being phased out.
I think people are going to start seeing a lot of fleets merging.
Hmmm..why wouldn't you mine with a transporter? Just beam dilithium out of the rocks.
Or, along the lines of 'bio-filters', just beam up tonnes of rock and filter out the non-dilithium.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
All I read was "PR response, blah blah, WE want money, Blah blah, Because most people will convert there Zen to DIL to complete these ridiculous projects with the amount of DIL they cost."
Simple:
1. Mega Fleets are they only ones able to keep up with this.
2. Smaller fleets are being phased out.
I think people are going to start seeing a lot of fleets merging.
It is not cryptics fault there are small fleets, it is the players. I agree that small fleets are having a hard time, but if it is really getting hard for small fleets to get to even tier 2 or 3, they need to merge into another bigger fleet. Large fleet people are not the only ones who could "buy" dil using zen. Smaller fleets can do it too. I am not encouraging it, but they can.
I tried recruiting for my fleet once. A lot of responses were "im already in a fleet", no wonder there are small fleets...
It is not cryptics fault there are small fleets, it is the players. I agree that small fleets are having a hard time, but if it is really getting hard for small fleets to get to even tier 2 or 3, they need to merge into another bigger fleet. Large fleet people are not the only ones who could "buy" dil using zen. Smaller fleets can do it too. I am not encouraging it, but they can.
I tried recruiting for my fleet once. A lot of responses were "im already in a fleet", no wonder there are small fleets...
when they introduced starbases they could have given a time limit on a fleets existence with only x amount of players. or some other method that allowed the projects demands to scale with the atctive roster.
it takes just 5 to make a fleet and the starbase/fleetbase concept has never been really taken in to account their own fleet minimum requirements. which frankly is a school boy error.
Let's roleplay for a second.
You are a lowly human, here on Earth, mining Gold in California in the 1850's.
You have a claim, which you know has a lot of gold in it.
You have a decent amount of gold from your last claim.
You need to buy equipment, to mine your new claim.
What do you buy that equipment with?
You may have a partner, or an employee to help you mine.
What do you pay them in?
In terms of gameplay you have made a viable point. But like other posters have already said, Dilithium is not a currency. STO feels like a completely different game which got a Star Trek skin pack at some point - it'd be great if the game would try to actually be MORE like Star Trek instead of alienating the IP further again and again with each update
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
when they introduced starbases they could have given a time limit on a fleets existence with only x amount of players. or some other method that allowed the projects demands to scale with the atctive roster.
it takes just 5 to make a fleet and the starbase/fleetbase concept has never been really taken in to account their own fleet minimum requirements. which frankly is a school boy error.
Just because a fleet has a lot of people does not mean that all of them contribute.
There are alts that may be counted as fleet members under the system you are suggesting. What if I have a fleet of 50 and only 10 contribute?
Honestly I think small fleets should merge with bigger ones. Making a fleet at this point in the game is a bad move unless your looking for more storage space or just wanting to hang with friends.
Just because a fleet has a lot of people does not mean that all of them contribute.
There are alts that may be counted as fleet members under the system you are suggesting. What if I have a fleet of 50 and only 10 contribute?
Honestly I think small fleets should merge with bigger ones. Making a fleet at this point in the game is a bad move unless your looking for more storage space or just wanting to hang with friends.
quiet frankly any person that's active dose contribute. they need fleet credits for fleet ships, weapons, hangar pets and other fleet gear. they can't get them without fleet credits which are only granted by contributing to fleet projects on that character. since fleet credits or any of the above mentioned are tied to the character and non tradable. it's a 1 way street on acquiring them. so people/characters have to contribute.
forcing a small fleet to merge with another fleet is just like asking people to quit their small fleets and join a bigger fleet. so merging is clearly not an ideal answer. like I say they made a massive oversight when developing this system, as it's clearly not designed to accommodate the minimum requirements of a fleet.
Let's roleplay for a second.
You are a lowly human, here on Earth, mining Gold in California in the 1850's.
You have a claim, which you know has a lot of gold in it.
You have a decent amount of gold from your last claim.
You need to buy equipment, to mine your new claim.
What do you buy that equipment with?
You may have a partner, or an employee to help you mine.
What do you pay them in?
I will use the dilitium/gold i got from my mine and not buy the gold/dilitium.
You start smal (before tier 1) and use the dilitium from your mine.
Keybind: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9355971&postcount=463
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
I understand the concept of the Dilithium currency in STO (a way for players to buy C-store items without buying Zen), but I really think they should of used another name for the currency or made yet another one for the fleet holdings. Dilithium is used in power generation in warp cores (for regulating the Matter/Anti-matter reaction), it *isn't* used in singularity cores. It makes no sence why so much of it is required to make starbases or buy equipment, surely it would be better to add a mining system to the game with natural resources that would be donated to these projects instead? I could understand donating huge ammounrs of Duranium Alloy to help build a mine or starbase, but having to donate such a huge ammount of Dilithium makes no sence. Right now we actualy don't donate any raw materials at all to building things in this game....
I understand the concept of the Dilithium currency in STO (a way for players to buy C-store items without buying Zen), but I really think they should of used another name for the currency or made yet another one for the fleet holdings. Dilithium is used in power generation in warp cores (for regulating the Matter/Anti-matter reaction), it *isn't* used in singularity cores. It makes no sence why so much of it is required to make starbases or buy equipment, surely it would be better to add a mining system to the game with natural resources that would be donated to these projects instead? I could understand donating huge ammounrs of Duranium Alloy to help build a mine or starbase, but having to donate such a huge ammount of Dilithium makes no sence. Right now we actualy don't donate any raw materials at all to building things in this game....
not only all this but used to buy ships and i dont mean zen store ships when back in the day is was EC it is used now to get stf gear when back in the day is was only a drop....... man that one still eats at me used for crafting i mean just about every thing in some way uses dill
Let's roleplay for a second.
You are a lowly human, here on Earth, mining Gold in California in the 1850's.
You have a claim, which you know has a lot of gold in it.
You have a decent amount of gold from your last claim.
You need to buy equipment, to mine your new claim.
What do you buy that equipment with?
You may have a partner, or an employee to help you mine.
What do you pay them in?
It's not the 1850s. Supposedly people are a bit smarter than they were...
Cryptic, to be constructive and make a suggestion there is simply no way around the fact that when someone opens a mine they expect to go in and dig out a valuable resource to take home with them rather than being milked of said resource. When you open a dilithium mine you expect to go in and dig out a load to take home with you. Instead, this is actually a resource sink and its just going to rub everyone wrong and lead to egg throwing.
I think your writers have an excellent opportunity to revisit the way this is presented to create something fun and uniquely Trek. You?ve put a mine up to mine us of dilithium rather than pulling it out of that hole some one dug. This is a very uniquely Ferengi thing to do. Maybe Obisek really got the best of this deal and they are trying to make up for the losses and meet their contractual demands. I bet we could accept that story if you present it well and have some fun with you based on what we get in turn.
As it is man, it's just too Soviet Russia with some RL context.
quiet frankly any person that's active dose contribute. they need fleet credits for fleet ships, weapons, hangar pets and other fleet gear. they can't get them without fleet credits which are only granted by contributing to fleet projects on that character. since fleet credits or any of the above mentioned are tied to the character and non tradable. it's a 1 way street on acquiring them. so people/characters have to contribute.
forcing a small fleet to merge with another fleet is just like asking people to quit their small fleets and join a bigger fleet. so merging is clearly not an ideal answer. like I say they made a massive oversight when developing this system, as it's clearly not designed to accommodate the minimum requirements of a fleet.
You dont have to contribute to get any of those things. You are assuming everyone wants fleet gear badly. What if people just want to do foundry missions and dont care about the fleet their in, what if they only work on their own reputation?
No ones forcing anyone to merge with a bigger fleet. It is just a suggestion. Small fleets CAN get to tier 5, it would not be easy but they can. When things get hard people always say they cant when they can.
Even if they make a system to accommodate small fleets, people will still complain. No one is going to be completely happy. Fixing one thing always brings up a new set of problems. If they make a new system, the very same people that wanted it are going to start complaining about it, because it was not EXACTLY what they wanted. Over time playing MMO's I see people are always picky, they need things to be exactly as they want it. If it is not that way people will not be happy.
I mean, by all means make a new system, but people will still complain.
But if we use TACO's own analogy, how many people mine gold with golden shovels?
This was NOT his anaology.
His analogy was that you would use the gold you have to buy supplies and pay wages for the second mine's worth of gold you want.
His broader point, I believe was the antithesis of your inaccurate reduction. Essentially this:
The dilithium you're 'contributing' to a project is NOT being used directly on physical extraction of dilithium. You're not using dilithium lasers guns and ore transport carts that are physiocally made out of dilithium. The tools are normal tools.
The dilithium is used in INDIRECT ways to help advance the project. Power for the base and housing and replicators. Power for the refining facility, power for the processing, power for all those behind the scenes you-dont-see-but-they-must-be-there things like cargo ships hauling stuff away.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
It's not the 1850s. Supposedly people are a bit smarter than they were...
There was no television or internet in 1850. I guarantee you people were smarter THEN.
By the way, can I interest you in extracting my vast Nigerian dilithium holdings? Simply send me 100,000 dilithium so I can pay off a few officials...
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
You dont have to contribute to get any of those things. You are assuming everyone wants fleet gear badly. What if people just want to do foundry missions and dont care about the fleet their in, what if they only work on their own reputation?
No ones forcing anyone to merge with a bigger fleet. It is just a suggestion. Small fleets CAN get to tier 5, it would not be easy but they can. When things get hard people always say they cant when they can.
Even if they make a system to accommodate small fleets, people will still complain. No one is going to be completely happy. Fixing one thing always brings up a new set of problems. If they make a new system, the very same people that wanted it are going to start complaining about it, because it was not EXACTLY what they wanted. Over time playing MMO's I see people are always picky, they need things to be exactly as they want it. If it is not that way people will not be happy.
I mean, by all means make a new system, but people will still complain.
you do if you want anything from the fleet store that was my point. so to say you don't need to contribute to get anything from the fleet stores is incorrect.
if people choose not to want them which it pretty unlikely. either way that's their choice just like it is to be in a small fleet. like I say the system was never designed with small fleets or the minimum requirements for setting a fleet up in mind.
you do if you want anything from the fleet store that was my point. so to say you don't need to contribute to get anything from the fleet stores is incorrect.
if people choose not to want them which it pretty unlikely. either way that's their choice just like it is to be in a small fleet. like I say the system was never designed with small fleets or the minimum requirements for setting a fleet up in mind.
I think I've figured it out. In this universe you have to plant dilithium in the ground and its spreads like a plant. Yup that must be it. Either that or there are alot of radan tribbles crapping out dilithium in the mines or something
Comments
Iron can be mined without steel (indeed it was for a millennia)
Oil does not need fuel to mine it either
ok so explain why we can't land in an environmental suit and mine the stuff that way?
as we do in another related place?
my thing is why is their not a ship that is taylor to mining
system Lord Baal is dead
It's possible to mine iron with bronze tools, and bronze is made from much softer metals which itself can be mined with stone tools in a pinch. You will ruin a lot of tools doing it, but you only need to get enough out the hard way to start making replacement tools with it. Iron tools will last much longer, and if you know how to make steel they'll last longer still.
However, if you live in a culture where iron tools are already being produced, you'd be using iron tools from the beginning, at every point in history where iron was discovered, bronze tools fell into disuse in a matter of decades, iron is sufficiently superior that even if you still use for copper and tin, you mine that with iron as well.
It's worth noting that many cultures never actually did mine iron with bronze, though. Some got their start with mteoric or telluric iron, which are both impure and brittle, but still makes stronger tools than bronze and don't need to be smelted. Most, though, traded for it from a culture that had already done the hard work.
haha, first i thought i don't even comment on this, but it got me thinking...
i mean, i have a gazzilion slaves, also called common doffs...i could just use them to do the dirty work, that normally would be done by sofisticated machines...
just like it was done for "millenia"...lol
but let me explain why you need iron to mine iron like i would explain it to a child:
there are many ways to dig in the ground and find iron, you ca do it with your hand which is very tiresome, or with a shovel. now the shovel is made out of iron or some other metal and you can dig for iron much more efficently...but still with the shovel you have the limitation that you get tired after a short time.
now if you had an escavator and some other machines...made of iron...you can dig for much more iron in a much shorter time.
and thats why industrial mining is much more efficent than mining by hand
the same is true for oil, just in a different color.
what you do for the ferengi on that rock is basically slavelabor, and to show off your EV suit.
personally i think that is the stupidest thing ever implemented in sto...admirals mining dilithium by hand...
and never did it anyway, except for the rich dilithium daily.
Don't tell nonsense mate.... it ain't..... not by a long shot....
i have to second this, neverwinter just had enough developement time, which sto did not have and still suffers from it in some places...
all in all neverwinter also has it's flawes...compare it with guildwars 2 and you will see them
But if we use TACO's own analogy, how many people mine gold with golden shovels?
Dilitium is a moderator for matter-antimatter reactors (and from what I read of little use anywhere else) so what is it useful for in this case?
We've seen refineries (DS9 was one under Cardassian control) and it runs on a fusion reactors because even for refining you don't actually have such a gigantic energy demand.
So even if we are generous and say Dilitium is used to power the mine, the analogy for what you desribe would be someone mining for coal with a coal shovel.
It still doesn't make much sense does it?
EC is too easy to get, some people invest a lot of money into keys and sell a lot of them making million, even close to a billion EC often. Too easy. You can say the same for dil. too, people buy zen, they trade it in for dil. to help with fleet projects. Not saying this is everyone, but it is not rare. EC you can earn just from selling drops from replaying missions or going through missions again as a new toon. With dil. you have to do STF's, dailies, etc. to get some.
Now GPL, the only way i recall to get a large amount of GPL is to sit at a dabo table for hours(do you really want to to do that?), or at Christmas event some how(once a year)
So the out of the 3, dil make more sense. With EC you would have to raise the requirements into the billions maybe even more. Dil right now is doing fine. latinum requires hours at dabo table, unless cryptic makes another way to get latinum. You can also get EC, Latinum, and dilithium for FREE, *gasp* free? YES, you dont have to spend anything to get them.
Dilithium also helps earn Cryptic money, you guys can say, "greed" all you want. Would you rather them not make money, not put more content in game? It is also a free to play game, what did you expect, most free to play games are like this.
I know ranking up starbases is not easy, but that is the way it is for now. Take your time with it, you dont have to get to tier 5 in 1 month or 1 year. Theres no clock as far as i know.
Getting EC,dil. and GPL, all is a boring process i know. But take it slow, you will get to tier 5 eventually.
Dilithium to build a dilithium base i know makes no sense, but that is the way it s.
R-O-F-L.
You've never played NW have you?
All I read was "PR response, blah blah, WE want money, Blah blah, Because most people will convert there Zen to DIL to complete these ridiculous projects with the amount of DIL they cost."
Simple:
1. Mega Fleets are they only ones able to keep up with this.
2. Smaller fleets are being phased out.
I think people are going to start seeing a lot of fleets merging.
Or, along the lines of 'bio-filters', just beam up tonnes of rock and filter out the non-dilithium.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
It is not cryptics fault there are small fleets, it is the players. I agree that small fleets are having a hard time, but if it is really getting hard for small fleets to get to even tier 2 or 3, they need to merge into another bigger fleet. Large fleet people are not the only ones who could "buy" dil using zen. Smaller fleets can do it too. I am not encouraging it, but they can.
I tried recruiting for my fleet once. A lot of responses were "im already in a fleet", no wonder there are small fleets...
when they introduced starbases they could have given a time limit on a fleets existence with only x amount of players. or some other method that allowed the projects demands to scale with the atctive roster.
it takes just 5 to make a fleet and the starbase/fleetbase concept has never been really taken in to account their own fleet minimum requirements. which frankly is a school boy error.
In terms of gameplay you have made a viable point. But like other posters have already said, Dilithium is not a currency. STO feels like a completely different game which got a Star Trek skin pack at some point - it'd be great if the game would try to actually be MORE like Star Trek instead of alienating the IP further again and again with each update
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Just because a fleet has a lot of people does not mean that all of them contribute.
There are alts that may be counted as fleet members under the system you are suggesting. What if I have a fleet of 50 and only 10 contribute?
Honestly I think small fleets should merge with bigger ones. Making a fleet at this point in the game is a bad move unless your looking for more storage space or just wanting to hang with friends.
no Shovels in Terraria, but there is a golden Pickaxe
http://terraria.wikia.com/wiki/Pickaxe
quiet frankly any person that's active dose contribute. they need fleet credits for fleet ships, weapons, hangar pets and other fleet gear. they can't get them without fleet credits which are only granted by contributing to fleet projects on that character. since fleet credits or any of the above mentioned are tied to the character and non tradable. it's a 1 way street on acquiring them. so people/characters have to contribute.
forcing a small fleet to merge with another fleet is just like asking people to quit their small fleets and join a bigger fleet. so merging is clearly not an ideal answer. like I say they made a massive oversight when developing this system, as it's clearly not designed to accommodate the minimum requirements of a fleet.
I will use the dilitium/gold i got from my mine and not buy the gold/dilitium.
You start smal (before tier 1) and use the dilitium from your mine.
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
not only all this but used to buy ships and i dont mean zen store ships when back in the day is was EC it is used now to get stf gear when back in the day is was only a drop....... man that one still eats at me used for crafting i mean just about every thing in some way uses dill
system Lord Baal is dead
It's not the 1850s. Supposedly people are a bit smarter than they were...
but he said lets roll play lol aww you no fun
system Lord Baal is dead
I think your writers have an excellent opportunity to revisit the way this is presented to create something fun and uniquely Trek. You?ve put a mine up to mine us of dilithium rather than pulling it out of that hole some one dug. This is a very uniquely Ferengi thing to do. Maybe Obisek really got the best of this deal and they are trying to make up for the losses and meet their contractual demands. I bet we could accept that story if you present it well and have some fun with you based on what we get in turn.
As it is man, it's just too Soviet Russia with some RL context.
You dont have to contribute to get any of those things. You are assuming everyone wants fleet gear badly. What if people just want to do foundry missions and dont care about the fleet their in, what if they only work on their own reputation?
No ones forcing anyone to merge with a bigger fleet. It is just a suggestion. Small fleets CAN get to tier 5, it would not be easy but they can. When things get hard people always say they cant when they can.
Even if they make a system to accommodate small fleets, people will still complain. No one is going to be completely happy. Fixing one thing always brings up a new set of problems. If they make a new system, the very same people that wanted it are going to start complaining about it, because it was not EXACTLY what they wanted. Over time playing MMO's I see people are always picky, they need things to be exactly as they want it. If it is not that way people will not be happy.
I mean, by all means make a new system, but people will still complain.
This was NOT his anaology.
His analogy was that you would use the gold you have to buy supplies and pay wages for the second mine's worth of gold you want.
His broader point, I believe was the antithesis of your inaccurate reduction. Essentially this:
The dilithium you're 'contributing' to a project is NOT being used directly on physical extraction of dilithium. You're not using dilithium lasers guns and ore transport carts that are physiocally made out of dilithium. The tools are normal tools.
The dilithium is used in INDIRECT ways to help advance the project. Power for the base and housing and replicators. Power for the refining facility, power for the processing, power for all those behind the scenes you-dont-see-but-they-must-be-there things like cargo ships hauling stuff away.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
There was no television or internet in 1850. I guarantee you people were smarter THEN.
By the way, can I interest you in extracting my vast Nigerian dilithium holdings? Simply send me 100,000 dilithium so I can pay off a few officials...
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
you do if you want anything from the fleet store that was my point. so to say you don't need to contribute to get anything from the fleet stores is incorrect.
if people choose not to want them which it pretty unlikely. either way that's their choice just like it is to be in a small fleet. like I say the system was never designed with small fleets or the minimum requirements for setting a fleet up in mind.
If I mine X, and I sell X for Y, and I use Y to buy more/better equipment to use to mine X, I am essentially spending X to get more X.
And Dilithium may not have been a currency on the shows, but in our game, right now, it is.
I meant regular weapons and ships.