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Buffs needed for BoP's & Raptors
oakland4life
Member Posts: 545 Arc User
As many of us knows by now that the current line of Fleet BoP's and Fleet Raptors are obsolete for the offensive role they suppose to be in. even though i'm still flying my Fleet B'rel Reftrofit as a cloaked torpedo ship with great effect in PvP. the Fleet Hoh'SuS and Fleet Norgh don't have that luxury of a Enhance Battle Cloak and they have virtually near the same stats of that of the Fleet B'rel, but they have to decloak to fight it out in combat with a weak hull rating and shield mod they have to make up for speed but lack firepower for that role now (maybe except the Hoh'sus). while it's not the defense i'm concern with the Fleet BoP's (BoP's are Hit & Run ships) and Raptors, it's the lack of offense compare to Fleet Federation Escorts and Fleet Romulan Warbird frigate types which have more tactical slots and can out dps all BoP's and Raptors, in the case of BoP's, they have 1 less boff slot so they can't stack 1 more Boff with another space trait which is something that the Romulan is superior to both Feds and KDF which their boff's could have 2 space traits for each Boff (Romulan & Reman), for example a Romulan player could have 5 boff with a Superior Operative which can stack a total of 10% Crit, 25% Crit Sec and 75% Cloak Cooldown time and on top they can stack 5 Subterfuge traits along with that. as for the KDF and Fed, the KDF only have letheans that have a space trait to only increase lower power levels same for fed Saurian, while the Human space traits is leadership that can regen hull and some other thing which nowhere near as effective to Rommie space traits overall.
I want Cryptic to upgrade the BoP's and Raptors, because far as i seen right now they're dropping out of favor with KDF players for Cruisers, Carriers and Lock Box ships.
So if anyone reading this from Cryptic (which i hope, but doubt) i would like them to consider these options for the current and future line of Fleet BoP's & Raptors. (in my opinion)
- Add Extra aft weapon slot to all current Fleet BoP's
- Add Ensign universal station to all Fleet BoP's (so they could use more boff with space traits) or convert the 2nd Lt. boff Uni station into another Lt. Com boff Uni station (like Fleet Norgh) to all Fleet BoP's can use 1 more extra ability (while the fleet norgh already have this they should need a 10th console)
- Add 5 tactical console ships to future KDF Fleet Raptors and some Fleet BoP's and maybe consider adding 5 fore weapon slots as well
- Consider adding a battle cloak for Raptors (to remain competitive to Romulan Warbirds and not to mention their turn rate is slightly inferior to fed escorts)
- Give KDF and Fed future BOff's more space traits like they give 3 effective space traits to many Romulan and Reman BOff's (KDF needs offensive boff space traits, and Fed with Defensive ones)
that's all i can think of for now, i want to read further opinions from others.
Dahar Master Yanin Vismitananda / IKS Shenyang / Fleet B'rel BoP Retrofit / Red Scorpions
I want Cryptic to upgrade the BoP's and Raptors, because far as i seen right now they're dropping out of favor with KDF players for Cruisers, Carriers and Lock Box ships.
So if anyone reading this from Cryptic (which i hope, but doubt) i would like them to consider these options for the current and future line of Fleet BoP's & Raptors. (in my opinion)
- Add Extra aft weapon slot to all current Fleet BoP's
- Add Ensign universal station to all Fleet BoP's (so they could use more boff with space traits) or convert the 2nd Lt. boff Uni station into another Lt. Com boff Uni station (like Fleet Norgh) to all Fleet BoP's can use 1 more extra ability (while the fleet norgh already have this they should need a 10th console)
- Add 5 tactical console ships to future KDF Fleet Raptors and some Fleet BoP's and maybe consider adding 5 fore weapon slots as well
- Consider adding a battle cloak for Raptors (to remain competitive to Romulan Warbirds and not to mention their turn rate is slightly inferior to fed escorts)
- Give KDF and Fed future BOff's more space traits like they give 3 effective space traits to many Romulan and Reman BOff's (KDF needs offensive boff space traits, and Fed with Defensive ones)
that's all i can think of for now, i want to read further opinions from others.
Dahar Master Yanin Vismitananda / IKS Shenyang / Fleet B'rel BoP Retrofit / Red Scorpions
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http://sto.gamepedia.com/Qaw%27Dun_Bird-of-Prey
Boff stations
XXXX
TRIBBLE
XX
XX
XX
consoles
TRIBBLE
XXXX
XX
weapons 4/2
Hull 23k
Shield mod 0.9
Devices XX
Turn 21
Impulse mod .20
Inertia 80
Battle Cloak
+15 to Auxillary
Sensor Anaylsis
*Special sci type console (possibly part of 2pc set using the T2 ships Shield Destabilizer console)
Fleet Qaw'Dun (available at T3 shipyard)
consoles
TRIBBLE
XXXX
TRIBBLE
weapons 4/2
Hull 25k
Shield mod 1.0
Devices XX
Turn 21
Impulse mod .20
Inertia 80
Battle Cloak
+15 to Auxillary
Sensor Anaylsis
Personally I'd buy it in a heartbeat, especially since buying a T5 would make the Fleet version only cost 1 ship module. If a useful special console (especially with a 2pc bonus like romulan sets) could be though up then potentially sales would be:
750 zen T2 ship
2500 zen T5 ship
500 zen ship module
3750 zen total
If its in a T3 shipyard possibly a lot of quick sales even my small fleet is T3 working on T4 so I imagine other KDF fleets are at T3+ by now.
My 2 nickels
Good Hunting
PACH
Nothing else will do !
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Though for now BOP users can get around it somewhat if you have access to the vet ship, it has that extra bridge seat and has greater shields and hull while retaining the battlecloak. The turn rate is not as good as a BoP but its not a hindrance in the hands of a skilled BOP pilot.
I agree with the above and I would like to see a true KDF sci ship.
Regardless, all current BoPs/Raptors require a buff to be even remotely comparable with the new Rom ships.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
R.I.P
Voporak Seal of Approval
We are missing an Andorian equivalent escort though.
We do have an equivalent to Andorian ships... the underpowered Raptors, which the class itself need an offsensive buff to begin with since the release of superior Fed fleet escorts. compared to the higher Tier 5 Feds Escorts and Rom Warbird Frigates at this time in STO, the Raptors are nothing more of a joke for a design that suppose to be comparable to the Fed Escorts and which is why this thread is brought up to begin with. besides how many KDF BoP's or Raptors have 5 tactical consoles or 5 foward weapon slots... NONE!!! and this is from a race that suppose to have more heavily armed ships.
AND they get it.
I'm sure, in the name of fairplay, Cryptic can buff BoPs and Raptors to match the Feds/Roms.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
The plasmonic leech somehow balanced a little the things giving more power to kdf ships but after LOR the imbalance get worse because federation escorts can all have leech.
LoR brought battlecloaks to all romulan ships and huge shield mods/hull compared to equivalent kdf ships.If we compare romulan "bop" with my fleet raptor aka escort ,t'varo is better by far.
Federation players already got plasmonic leech from LOR so federation faction was already buffed now it is time that kdf faction get buffed too.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Agreed , one of the best ships we have raider wise is limited to LTS/long time vets in the form of the Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer, it has a better hull and shield rating than the bops, almost comparable to the raptor has the extra BO station and battle cloak.
It doesn't turn so well compared to a BoP but it still is pretty good.
and it has 4/3 hard-points
The best escort we have that's widely available is the Fleet Scourge, and it doesn't have a cloaking device. It's a non-Klingon destroyer. Even then, it's not quite the equivalent of the Fleet Patrol Escort. The KDF has been short-changed when it comes to escorts.
If they would just PERMANENTLY eliminate the accursed turnpoint-axis issue for the Raptors, that alone would be a welcome improvement. That issue is one of the things crippling the class when it comes to PvP, at least. I don't even know why the issue exists to begin with, since Raptors aren't even a cruiser/escort hybrid like the Chel Grett or the LTS ships.
most klingon players say, that they are not happy with ( in there eye's) the crossfaction packs that give the feds the so called "good"stuff, and give's the kdf the "bad"stuff.
they ask for faction specific console's and ships.
why are some people here, whining about the fact, that the kdf doesnt have a 5 forward weapon raptor, or tac console ship?
isnt that the same "stealing"as the feds get acused of??
if people want to keep factions different, why does the "mighty"empire demand a 5 weapon or console ship??
does it give the feds the right, to get a build in cloack on there defiants? or phase shifting cloack on ohthers?
i just dont get it, its like most people are looking trough colored glasses they like.
just a qeustion tho...
Because Feds have whined and wanted KDF things in the past and gotten them, without wanting the drawbacks.
For example, for a very long time, there was tons and tons and tons of whining about KDF having carriers, and carrier spam, etc etc. So...the Feds then got the Atrox. And eventually the HEC.
In turn, the KDF has received nothing in return as more and more unique combat advantages are simply given to the Feds (and more recently the Romulans).
And yes, the KDF is getting 'bad consoles' because most of the lower tiered Fed consoles aren't that good. They are generally more defensively-built (in the philosophy of the Federation), but usually tend to not be as good or actually useful. (Yes there are exceptions) In turn, the 'OP' KDF consoles, the ones that are usually whined on and on about, like AA, PL, etc, have almost all been traded for those lackluster consoles.
The reason things like a 5 tac-console Raptor is asked for, is because some KDF players figure, if they are going to have all three factions be so 'equalized' in terms of tactics by letting anyone do anything, then at least allow the KDF to have ships on-par with all these other new ships the other factions have.
The Federation has the Fleet Defiant, Fleet MVAE, and Tac Kumari for 5 tac console escorts, while the Romulans have the Fleet T'varo and the Fleet...Ha'feh? Or was it the Dhe'lan? Can't remember.
Klingons have the tactical Bortas, that is their ONLY 5 tac-console ship, and the Bortas was probably the worst KDF C-store ship ever (I like it, but lack of sales are still a lack of sales). As such, they haven't given ANY C-store ships to the KDF-side since (Fleet ships don't count).
Besides all that, it boggles me that there's no 5 tac-console raptor from the faction that is MOST suited towards warships and such in general. FAR more than the Federation or Romulans. Romulans I can understand, but not so much the Federation, and yet the KDF-side is the most lacking of decent C-store and fleet ships of all three.
Pretty much this. If Cryptic had left our consoles, carriers, and ship concepts the hell alone, we'd have far less cause to 'demand' the good Federation stuff. Cryptic has been watering down the differences between the factions for a long time.
It's a good question if you're not that familiar with the last 3 years of history.
So I think you are not...which is no shame or problem.
As the game launched, both sides were rather different.
Starlfeet had escorts, science ships and cruisers.
KDF had Raptors, BoPs, battlecruisers and a carrier (as in "one").
At max level, this meant Starfleet had the DSSV and RSV, the Star& Assault Cruiser and the Advanced& Parol Escort (which was back then called Fleet Escort).
KDF had the Qin Raptor, the Hegh'ta BoP, the Negh'var and the Vo'quv.
So Starfleet had more ships overall but only in 3 categories.
The first ship added to the game was the Dreadnought cruiser.
But back then it was not available throught the C-Store but you had to recruit other plaers to buy the game an stay on for another month through subscription.
Had you done that with 5 people, you got the ship.
Now, for one thing the only reward available was the Galaxy-X, no reward for the KDF side.
An alternative reward for them was "investigated" for a while but nothing ever came of it.
So the first ship added to the game after launch was a Fed ship with a cloaking device...whcih actually went against the game's own backstory in "The Path to 2409", which included a line that the president had banned cloaking tech via executive order.
The next ships added were the first three retrofits: the Galaxy-R, the Intrepid-R and the Defiant-R...with the Defiant given a cloaking device.
The basic tenor back then was "you still have BoPs and carriers, so shut up...and give us carriers and add a battlecloak to the Defiant"...which makes perfect sense since the Raptors don't have one...
This went on and while there were numerous ideas what faction-specific solutions could be added to the game without copying from the other side (like Raptor-based scouts) the KDF eventually got the Gorn Varanus, which is essentially a DSSV.
While it's a nice ship, it was not what anyone asked for, but it was appearently easier to add this than a unique solution.
Then the tenor on the forums was "well, when the KDF take 'our' science shipsaway from us, we can have carriers to make it even again" etc.
So what's left?
Faction-unique ideas are ignored and we end up with copies of what the others have anyway.
Personally, I don't want an escort with 5 fwd weapon slots, I'd prefer a 5/3 battlecruiser.
It should be different enough...
All those weak BoPs sure seem to do pretty well though. Sometimes the weak players don't fair so well but the ship itself is as fun and is as effective as you make it. BoPs offer a play style all their own and too much of an alteration runs the risk of turning it into any other bland gun boat.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
The fact is those Fed consoles selected by Cryptic on the lock boxes for the KDF DO suck while they put out the best KDF ones for Feds, if u ever been in PvP u will see Feds players constantly using subspace jumps and plasmonic leech consoles while no KDF players would even touch the useless Fed consoles that Cryptic gave us.
What's wrong with any KDF ship having a 5 Fore weapon slot on a Raptor or BoP, U might as well accused the Feds or KDF stole the Cruiser/Battle Cruiser 4 Fore/4 Aft or the Escort/Raptor 4 Fore/3 Aft weapon set up from each other.
We already know the Feds have three 5 Tactical consoles escorts, while the Romulans also already have two 5 tactical console ships on their frigate type Warbirds and they just barely came out, soo the KDF should not have any of their Raider/Raptor types with 5 tactical consoles???
U might already forget or u was not playing STO at the time, that the first 5 tac console ship availible to get in a faction was the KDF Tactical Bortasqu' this is b4 the Fleet system even came out... So isn't the feds copying KDF. (leaving out the Jem'hadar attack ship since it's a lock box ship)
The fact is Fed players complain far alot and they get the stuff they demanded, while KDF players ask for new ships and other stuff like new outfits, etc. we get nothing at all or a few useless things, they did not even bother fixing the Tier 4 marauding Boff customize bug while the fed can customize their diplomatic boff's, we can't do to ours, and this is since the Doff system came out.
If people want to keep factions different, why does the ''Mighty'' Federation ask for our universal consoles is the real question, as for 5 fore weapon ships and consoles i already explained above.
Tell u the truth i rather see the Defiant/Galaxy-X with a standard passive cloaking device, not a console that can't be used on any other Fed ship which makes no sense.
Bah! Not that ugly piece of junk! If they're gonna make a new fleet BoP make it a Hegh'ta!
To the OP...I was with you on the first line of adds till you just went really greedy, yes they could use a 5 tac raptor or some other escort but you sound like you're jealous of romulans and want everything they have and more.
I'd like to know where all of these Romulan boffs with 3 space traits are...I've yet to see or be given one.
Have u NOT been playing a Romulan... they do have 3 space traits with each BOff can have 2 traits each, i will put it this way in this order
Romulan Boff
* Operative or Superior Operative traits
+ Crit & Crit Sev % Bonus
+ Reduce Cloak Cooldown
* Subterfuge Trait
+ Cloaking Effect
+ Defense
+ Damage After Leaving Cloak
Reman Boff
* Infiltrator or Superior Infiltrator Traits
+ Cloak Stealth
+ Defense
+ Ambush Duration
* Subterfuge Trait
+ Cloaking Effect
+ Defense
+ Damage After Leaving Cloak
And All those can stack its stats on top of each other
How can i be jealous of the Rom faction when one of my main characters is a Romulan.
The fact is the Romulans do have OP Boff traits when the Feds and KDF Boff have nothing that can compare it to (Efficent sucks and Leadership is not much useful at all)
KDF and Feds do need a new generation of Boff's with unique Space Traits that can atleast compare to the Romulan ones.
I would agree that the BoPs don't necessarily need a hull or shield buff. Their losses in those fields force players to be a little inventive with their builds, or just use hit-and-run tactics.
What I, a BoP enthusiast, would really like to see buffed on the BoPs is their impulse modifier (it's .20, exactly the same as almost every other escort out there, with the exception of the Steamrunner and the JHAS, and maybe 1-2 other ships I'm forgetting about). So, boost our impulse mod to .21 or .22 so that we gain more speed tanking and can truly be faster and more maneuverable than Federation escorts. A buff to the battlecloaks might be nice, in the form of a boost to the defensive values or something.
We took paper thin hulls, small crew sizes, limited slots and consoles, with low shield modifiers for the privilege of a cloaking ship. We played them for years that way with everyone saying "Well you're the only ones who can battle cloak/hit and run so shut up about how fragile they are."
There's nothing unique about them anymore with all the the OP FED escorts and the battle cloaking Romulan Warbirds not to mention lockbox ships, they've fallen way behind the pack in the power creep going on.
BoPs definitely need a boost up IMO, I miss flying my beloved Haj' Heavy BoP - it would be nice to see an improved version so it can be competitive again.
I'd also like to see the Ch'Tang model offered as an alternate skin for the Hoh'sus, not a fan personally of that design.
There is a difference between three space traits and one trait that offers small bonuses to three things.
Does not change the fact that the Romulans faction have superior BOff's to give them an edge in space combat with 2 traits per boff with 1 Superior and 1 Basic that stacks up while the KDF and Fed faction could only use 1 Basic to stack (Efficient or Leadership trait) which is TRIBBLE compare to the subterfuge trait which works very well for Rommie Warbirds.
So that leaves the indigenous KDF/Fed boff's no good space traits to even fight agianst Rom faction ones, unless Klingon or Fed players get rommie boff's from the embassy which like the KDF/fed boff's only have 1 trait each, either way Romulans could have 2 times more traits stacked which have superior and basic opposed to only KDF/Fed boff's basic's.
As i said b4 the KDF and Fed needs a new generation of Boff's with any of their own races having their own unique space traits so they don't need any other race that is NOT part of the Klingon Empire or Federation to have space traits for them.
It's easily justified, most still only have three tactical consoles, and of all ships they perhaps have the most prominent looking weapons, certainly more so than a Kumari. The only reason BoPs are even holding their own is because it's the school of hard knocks; you get good or you stop flying it.
The K't'inga would also make more sense in a 5/3 setup, as this is the closest proportion to it's lower tier counterpart that's possible. It also makes no sense that for it's tier, the tier 3 one's the most DPS oriented cruiser going, but rather than having an Excelsior equivalent boff layout, they make it a Vor'cha clone.:rolleyes:
However though I would like to see them either revisit these ships to make them more in line with this fed and rom mold they have created. Either give the KDF some new raptors and bops that fall in line with what these other factions have or revisit the stats on the existing ones. Heck even Geko said awhile back we were getting a Negh'Var retrofit which as of yet we have not seen or even heard of any progress on that since it was stated in an interview. Although I knew if we didn't even get any ships this year after the anniversary the stated "not going to be making lethean ships or any non klingon race ships" was going to be an issue since they haven't made anything for the KDF at all where it comes to this new ship mold.
The only kind of feedback we ever get is the KDF population is not large enough to get their attention or discussing old news about well we gave you guys a ship at anniversary.