But they don't need to be, (and the devs don't either) because they are the same strength.
No I realize that too lol. I was pointing out that under his proposed system that he would need to have 6 tiers. 6 tiers that we currently do not have.
hmm so you get a free ship at level 10?
to be honest its been awhile since i trained up a char from level 1.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
i guess ill just start calling the LG ships t6 lol.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
-If you have connection issues, try to input the following command in your prompt (open cmd.exe with administrator privileges): ipconfig /flushdns. It might not fix your connection problems, but it does help a little. It's not always that cryptic's servers have failed when your connection drops.
-Almost all science abilities, including captain's, work best when more power is invested in the auxiliary subsystem.
-You might be wondering why someone does better in space than you even though it seems you have the same boff abilities/gear. They are not hacking, they are simply good pilots and understand game mechanics. Timing of boff abilities, diverting power to subsystems to enhance boff abilities effectiveness depending on the situation, using appropriate defensive skills to counter enemy's attack. Observing your opponent's buffs helps get you a kill too, there are usually gaps in their defense. Timing and situational awareness is the key.
-Keybinds do not guarantee you a win, in fact there are some unique circumstances when they can work against you such as: enemy uses confuse abilities which makes you buff them up instead of yourself or your team. Some people also overheal or overbuff, these passives are wasted and you usually get killed when they're on cool down.
-In STO, teamwork is everything in end game content. Teams are more efficient in missions if they work together in taking down a target I.e: focus fire, cross heals, coordinated attacks, watching enemy buffs etc.
^^ Brilliant and insightful. I'm thinking of some more too that may help people.
- Did you know that going hard up or down (at maximum pitch) can get rear-facing beam arrays firing at large targets directly infront of you while not losing your front torpedo arc? Use this on immobile targets in STFs to maximize your output.
- One of the above posters points brings up another thought that some people fall into. People look at this game and say "Really, only 3 classes?" Your class in ground combat is indeed limited to one of the three, however I think it is important to say that in space people should experiment with non-standard combinations of captain and ship and could find some great things. Many of the best players in my fleet do this all the time, amazing us with the dps from Tac/Cruiser or crazy supportive and unkillable Eng/Sci Vessel combinations.
This is in part due to the way cryptic built the original federation ship choices vs captain classes. It also amuses me that people fall so hard into this trap that they demanded that Romulans must have separate Eng Sci and Tac ships at every level. I actually like that my Romulan was pushed into a Tac ship at Lvl 10-30 and a cruiser at 30-40 because it gave me a chance to try new things.
You get a free ship every 10 levels. Try out each of the different classes perhaps and see if any of the combinations appeal to you!
This is actually a crazy look into the human mind. Please could someone tell me why the LG/VA ships MUST be a new tier when it is very clear; based on the power of them and based on what the creators of the game have said, they are the same tier as the BG/SA/RA ships.
- One of the above posters points brings up another thought that some people fall into. People look at this game and say "Really, only 3 classes?" Your class in ground combat is indeed limited to one of the three, however I think it is important to say that in space people should experiment with non-standard combinations of captain and ship and could find some great things. Many of the best players in my fleet do this all the time, amazing us with the dps from Tac/Cruiser or crazy supportive and unkillable Eng/Sci Vessel combinations.
Your ground class isn't entirely restricted, either, since more than half of your powers come from kits. It's a bit more restricted than space combat, but a tac with squad leader or security protocol plays a lot different and benefits from different team support than one with operative or fire team.
This is actually a crazy look into the human mind. Please could someone tell me why the LG/VA ships MUST be a new tier when it is very clear; based on the power of them and based on what the creators of the game have said, they are the same tier as the BG/SA/RA ships.
I would say that when it comes to video games, people need to equate bigger numbers with getting stronger. Each level bracket that they go up in coincides with getting a new tier of ship. All except the last one. So suddenly there's a break in the flow of progression. You go up to the max level, but your ship doesn't move up a tier. From this perspective I can understand why others would find it hard to understand even when the level 50 ships are functionally not much more powerful. At least not powerful enough to warrant labeling them as a new tier.
I've seen this happen in other games too. People like bigger numbers. They want to see larger damage numbers, level numbers, and gear/ship tier numbers even if they aren't functionally different than lower numbers. For example I played FFXI which was a low number game (at the time, I don't know how it's changed since I've been gone). Damage was down in the hundreds and breaking 1k damage was a massive feat. I had some WoW players try it out and ask why they were so weak. I explained that they weren't weak, just that the game didn't deal in hundreds of thousands of damage. They still insisted that they felt weaker, even though they functionally weren't.
So it comes down to people equating larger numbers with getting stronger. So when you tell people that they're functionally the same or stronger without having a larger number attached to show that, it causes some sort of...brain stall. They have a hard time understanding that and in some cases just can't accept that at all.
Anyways I find it rather interesting and is something I've noticed for a while now.
Second, since changes that happened a long time ago, weapons return their drained weapons power immediately at the end of the firing sequence. This means that EPS flow regulators DO NOTHING to help weapon power drain. (This is not true of weapon power recovery after a Beam Overload, when EPS consoles do help).
Wrong, it's an odd mechanic in that you wouldn't trip over it, but if you do some extensive testing as I did using ACT actually when you overcap your weapon power due to the mechanics in that (the overcap energy doesn't actually exist until the below cap energy is used, yet it is still there, but unusable) how fast that energy 'enters' the system is dependant upon your power transfer rate as it is in effect transferring power from storage to a system.
This means that with 6 beam arrays and two purple Mk XI Flow regulators you can run them at 115-120 power and with engineer captain abilities set up FAW with all shots at 125 power, on average I increased my beam damage from 900-1000 damage per hit to 1000+ per hit just using these, add AP:B and that gets to 1100+ per hit.
In short: If you maintain constantly overcapped weapon power, beam arrays will benefit from Power transfer rate.
Nope, EPS flow regs were changed a long time ago so that they don't have any effect on weapon power drain.
Weapon Energy Drain Mechanic Changes
The weapon energy drain mechanic will be changing once this build goes to Holodeck. Weapon Power drain is now instantly refunded at the end of a weapons firing cycle, instead of a slow return as was previously implemented. Multiple weapons being fired at the same time will still produce a significant drain and will affect their damage proportionately, but once the weapons stop firing, the weapon power level will immediately return to normal.
This change was primarily inspired by player feedback - specifically on the topic of the energy drain caused by firing multiple bursts of energy weapons. Players may now fire all of their energy weapons repeatedly burst after burst, but the damage for each weapon is still diminished during the firing cycle.
As a result of this change to the energy drain mechanic, the EPS Flow Regulator Station Mods, will no longer have an effect on DPS. They will continue to function to improve power transfer rates between different systems.
Okay, I understand what adamkafei is saying, but it is still true that in most cases an EPS flow regulator will not help weapon power.
In the case where your weapon power is significantly over capped (probably like 150+, which is generally useless and wasteful), then putting consoles into EPS flow may help improve power drain, but tbh even the numbers he reported are tiny when compared to returns that you could get by spending those console slots on better upgrades, like crits, accuracy, or procs. Also it would only likely be seen on ships with beam arrays, as shorter firing sequences would nullify the effect.
I think its better to let the general public think that there is no effect, rather than getting into the minutae.
EDIT: Not to mention, the best way to max your dps is to make it not drop in the first place, which would also nullify this tiny bonus dps. I'm looking at you, Marion Frances Dulmar and Omega set 2pc bonus.
It may have been that way at one time, but the F2P dev blog had a chart of Fed and KDF ships that listed these ships as tier 1, and they repeated that pattern with this chart in the LOR dev blogs.
So if they did start at tier 0 at some point, it was a very long time ago.
Internally Cryptic called them Tier 0 ships. When Cryptic first started to public refer to the ship Tiers the used 0. Players who had not heard the devs called them Tier 1 ships. Ther was confustion. Eventually the devs came around to using Tier 1 for beginner ships.
Nope, EPS flow regs were changed a long time ago so that they don't have any effect on weapon power drain.
I am fully aware of what the devs have changed and said, I've read that post multiple times and I only tripped over it when testing something else and I used EPS power transfer at which point I decided to do some testing, you can find my full results in the link off this post.
EPS consoles have no effect on weapon drain. They can impact the effectiveness of Emergency Power To X abilities.
So if you slap on consoles and hit EPtW you will improve DPS. But drain is unaffected.
To test this, you need to record how low your weapon power drops to, not DPS.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
EPS consoles have no effect on weapon drain. They can impact the effectiveness of Emergency Power To X abilities.
So if you slap on consoles and hit EPtW you will improve DPS. But drain is unaffected.
To test this, you need to record how low your weapon power drops to, not DPS.
Actually I think this has to do with the overcapped power and the eps effect that adamkafei suggested. In general, if your weapon power is not capped, EPS flow regulators actually reduce the effectiveness of EPTX skills and Aux2Bat.
The reason why, is that the power levels fill up instantly, but when the ability runs out it slowly lowers (at a rate determined by your power transfer rate). So lower power transfer rate means your power buff lasts longer. (Slightly.)
Now, this is not true of the skill of EPS flow, because that actually makes the abilities more powerful AND increases transfer rate.
So I guess it just means its complicated. I'd say that the benefits and downsides are about equal, depending on what you use. TBH, my recommendation is to not use EPS consoles at all. There are so many things that are so much more worthwhile, especially since you can actually get great power bonuses from consoles instead. (Omega console, Nukara Consoles, Romulan Consoles, Plasmonic Leech)
Your ground class isn't entirely restricted, either, since more than half of your powers come from kits. It's a bit more restricted than space combat, but a tac with squad leader or security protocol plays a lot different and benefits from different team support than one with operative or fire team.
Yes it is, since you can't equip a kit that belongs to another class. You can choose different sets of abilities, but its still all class-restricted. If you were allowed to equip any kit, then it would allow true multiclassing on ground.
wrong, It's An Odd Mechanic In That You Wouldn't Trip Over It, But If You Do Some Extensive Testing As I Did Using Act Actually When You Overcap Your Weapon Power Due To The Mechanics In That (the Overcap Energy Doesn't Actually Exist Until The Below Cap Energy Is Used, Yet It Is Still There, But Unusable) How Fast That Energy 'enters' The System Is Dependant Upon Your Power Transfer Rate As It Is In Effect Transferring Power From Storage To A System.
This Means That With 6 Beam Arrays And Two Purple Mk Xi Flow Regulators You Can Run Them At 115-120 Power And With Engineer Captain Abilities Set Up Faw With All Shots At 125 Power, On Average I Increased My Beam Damage From 900-1000 Damage Per Hit To 1000+ Per Hit Just Using These, Add Ap:b And That Gets To 1100+ Per Hit.
In Short: If You Maintain Constantly Overcapped Weapon Power, Beam Arrays Will Benefit From Power Transfer Rate.
Hmm, I guess I'm not seeing where being overcapped in power is increasing the DPS. Based on the link that adamkafei posted all I'm seeing is EPS boosting the EPtX skills and not the power drain itself. If the EPS were boosting the drain while being overcapped, then it should increase the DPS without the use of any skills should it not?
Hmm, I guess I'm not seeing where being overcapped in power is increasing the DPS. Based on the link that adamkafei posted all I'm seeing is EPS boosting the EPtX skills and not the power drain itself. If the EPS were boosting the drain while being overcapped, then it should increase the DPS without the use of any skills should it not?
Not quite see these:
EPS (2 consoles) 2419
EPS+EPtW1 (No consoles) 2190
Note how just the EPS power transfer with two consoles outperforms EPS power transfer and EPtW with no consoles. EPSPT also has a power transfer rate element to it, notice here the difference it makes over EPtW without any consoles
EPtW1 (No consoles) 1824
EPS (No consoles) 1979
And the gap between EPtW with a console and EPSPT with no consoles
EPtW1 (1 console) 1943
EPS (No consoles) 1979
Notice how the no console EPSPT outperforms the EPtW with console. Or even how EPtW with two consoles is still outperformed by EPSPT with only one console.
EPtW1 (2 consoles) 2185
EPS (1 console) 2233
All in all I would say this concludes to not buffing the EPtW however it is not a direct buff to DPS, rather an indirect one by means of the way power works in buffing damage (Power*0.02) using the power transfer rate to increase the speed at which overcapped power enters the system to increase the power level that most shots are fired at thereby increasing DPS.
Internally Cryptic called them Tier 0 ships. When Cryptic first started to public refer to the ship Tiers the used 0. Players who had not heard the devs called them Tier 1 ships. Ther was confustion. Eventually the devs came around to using Tier 1 for beginner ships.
and this is true because...?
ohh wait somebody on the internet says so without any evidence...what a fool i've been for only accepting things that actually have evidence.
but you get a cookie for trying to be right so freaking hard!
you say you did extensive testing, yet all you present is post after post wihout any pics or vids or combat logs...nada
if i cared enough, i could probably make a counter post with the same degree of credibility as yours...none to be precise.
linking to a post where you wrote down numbers can hardly count as evidence to the cause you present.
I think I'm starting to get it. So in order for the EPS to have an effect on the DPS its reliant on the use of EPtW to overcap the power level?
Not exclusively, any method of getting power over the cap will work, EPtW is simply the easiest, Aux2Batt will do the trick for example, the only prerequisite of EPS consoles boosting DPS is that weapon power is over the cap.
you say you did extensive testing, yet all you present is post after post wihout any pics or vids or combat logs...nada
if i cared enough, i could probably make a counter post with the same degree of credibility as yours...none to be precise.
linking to a post where you wrote down numbers can hardly count as evidence to the cause you present.
If I had an online storage area I would have given images rather than typed out data, sadly I lack that, however there is nothing stopping you testing for yourself in fact I even asked the community in my first post on the subject to test it to prove/disprove my findings, nobody did so I did some further testing and posted the results as you've seen.
Tinypic is free. As are literally dozens of other options. I mean, you could even get a free wordpress account somewhere and get image and HTML storage out of the deal.
I had some WoW players try it out and ask why they were so weak. I explained that they weren't weak, just that the game didn't deal in hundreds of thousands of damage. They still insisted that they felt weaker, even though they functionally weren't.
In classic WoW the average level 60 character had about 3500 hit points and a large hit was 1000 to 1500. So even in WoW the numbers were much lower. Its just the power curve over the years have moved the numbers up tremendously. As an aside, Blizzard did say that at some point if they have to use scientific notation to show the numbers that they'll rebalance them.
In classic WoW the average level 60 character had about 3500 hit points and a large hit was 1000 to 1500. So even in WoW the numbers were much lower. Its just the power curve over the years have moved the numbers up tremendously. As an aside, Blizzard did say that at some point if they have to use scientific notation to show the numbers that they'll rebalance them.
That was a long time ago, though. When I last played, the DPS checks in top end content were set for around 10,000, and top end players were pushing 20k. That was 10 levels, 11 raids, and 2 expansions ago. Looking at the old parse ranking site my guild used to use, they're still around, and their top warlock is knocking on the door of 400,000 dps, which is just mind boggling.
But, yeah, numbers and power aren't really the same thing, because WoW is full of raid bosses with billions of hp. A whole group of ships in STO might do less damage than one character in WoW, but they'll be doing it against enemies that rarely have health reaching 7 digits. But when people get used to seeing those big numbers fly, I guess it's hard to give up.
Comments
No I realize that too lol. I was pointing out that under his proposed system that he would need to have 6 tiers. 6 tiers that we currently do not have.
Mine Trap Supporter
to be honest its been awhile since i trained up a char from level 1.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Yep. Once you hit level 10 the Feds can upgrade from the Miranda to the TMP Connie, Nova, or Rapier class. It's the first big milestone in the game.
Mine Trap Supporter
i guess ill just start calling the LG ships t6 lol.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
^^ Brilliant and insightful. I'm thinking of some more too that may help people.
- Did you know that going hard up or down (at maximum pitch) can get rear-facing beam arrays firing at large targets directly infront of you while not losing your front torpedo arc? Use this on immobile targets in STFs to maximize your output.
- One of the above posters points brings up another thought that some people fall into. People look at this game and say "Really, only 3 classes?" Your class in ground combat is indeed limited to one of the three, however I think it is important to say that in space people should experiment with non-standard combinations of captain and ship and could find some great things. Many of the best players in my fleet do this all the time, amazing us with the dps from Tac/Cruiser or crazy supportive and unkillable Eng/Sci Vessel combinations.
This is in part due to the way cryptic built the original federation ship choices vs captain classes. It also amuses me that people fall so hard into this trap that they demanded that Romulans must have separate Eng Sci and Tac ships at every level. I actually like that my Romulan was pushed into a Tac ship at Lvl 10-30 and a cruiser at 30-40 because it gave me a chance to try new things.
You get a free ship every 10 levels. Try out each of the different classes perhaps and see if any of the combinations appeal to you!
Your ground class isn't entirely restricted, either, since more than half of your powers come from kits. It's a bit more restricted than space combat, but a tac with squad leader or security protocol plays a lot different and benefits from different team support than one with operative or fire team.
I would say that when it comes to video games, people need to equate bigger numbers with getting stronger. Each level bracket that they go up in coincides with getting a new tier of ship. All except the last one. So suddenly there's a break in the flow of progression. You go up to the max level, but your ship doesn't move up a tier. From this perspective I can understand why others would find it hard to understand even when the level 50 ships are functionally not much more powerful. At least not powerful enough to warrant labeling them as a new tier.
I've seen this happen in other games too. People like bigger numbers. They want to see larger damage numbers, level numbers, and gear/ship tier numbers even if they aren't functionally different than lower numbers. For example I played FFXI which was a low number game (at the time, I don't know how it's changed since I've been gone). Damage was down in the hundreds and breaking 1k damage was a massive feat. I had some WoW players try it out and ask why they were so weak. I explained that they weren't weak, just that the game didn't deal in hundreds of thousands of damage. They still insisted that they felt weaker, even though they functionally weren't.
So it comes down to people equating larger numbers with getting stronger. So when you tell people that they're functionally the same or stronger without having a larger number attached to show that, it causes some sort of...brain stall. They have a hard time understanding that and in some cases just can't accept that at all.
Anyways I find it rather interesting and is something I've noticed for a while now.
Mine Trap Supporter
Wrong, it's an odd mechanic in that you wouldn't trip over it, but if you do some extensive testing as I did using ACT actually when you overcap your weapon power due to the mechanics in that (the overcap energy doesn't actually exist until the below cap energy is used, yet it is still there, but unusable) how fast that energy 'enters' the system is dependant upon your power transfer rate as it is in effect transferring power from storage to a system.
This means that with 6 beam arrays and two purple Mk XI Flow regulators you can run them at 115-120 power and with engineer captain abilities set up FAW with all shots at 125 power, on average I increased my beam damage from 900-1000 damage per hit to 1000+ per hit just using these, add AP:B and that gets to 1100+ per hit.
In short: If you maintain constantly overcapped weapon power, beam arrays will benefit from Power transfer rate.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2720169&postcount=3
Mine Trap Supporter
In the case where your weapon power is significantly over capped (probably like 150+, which is generally useless and wasteful), then putting consoles into EPS flow may help improve power drain, but tbh even the numbers he reported are tiny when compared to returns that you could get by spending those console slots on better upgrades, like crits, accuracy, or procs. Also it would only likely be seen on ships with beam arrays, as shorter firing sequences would nullify the effect.
I think its better to let the general public think that there is no effect, rather than getting into the minutae.
EDIT: Not to mention, the best way to max your dps is to make it not drop in the first place, which would also nullify this tiny bonus dps. I'm looking at you, Marion Frances Dulmar and Omega set 2pc bonus.
Internally Cryptic called them Tier 0 ships. When Cryptic first started to public refer to the ship Tiers the used 0. Players who had not heard the devs called them Tier 1 ships. Ther was confustion. Eventually the devs came around to using Tier 1 for beginner ships.
I am fully aware of what the devs have changed and said, I've read that post multiple times and I only tripped over it when testing something else and I used EPS power transfer at which point I decided to do some testing, you can find my full results in the link off this post.
So if you slap on consoles and hit EPtW you will improve DPS. But drain is unaffected.
To test this, you need to record how low your weapon power drops to, not DPS.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Actually I think this has to do with the overcapped power and the eps effect that adamkafei suggested. In general, if your weapon power is not capped, EPS flow regulators actually reduce the effectiveness of EPTX skills and Aux2Bat.
The reason why, is that the power levels fill up instantly, but when the ability runs out it slowly lowers (at a rate determined by your power transfer rate). So lower power transfer rate means your power buff lasts longer. (Slightly.)
Now, this is not true of the skill of EPS flow, because that actually makes the abilities more powerful AND increases transfer rate.
So I guess it just means its complicated. I'd say that the benefits and downsides are about equal, depending on what you use. TBH, my recommendation is to not use EPS consoles at all. There are so many things that are so much more worthwhile, especially since you can actually get great power bonuses from consoles instead. (Omega console, Nukara Consoles, Romulan Consoles, Plasmonic Leech)
You can't tell people what to do
(But, yes they are.)
Give This Guy A ****ing Medal!
Mine Trap Supporter
Not quite see these:
EPS (2 consoles) 2419
EPS+EPtW1 (No consoles) 2190
Note how just the EPS power transfer with two consoles outperforms EPS power transfer and EPtW with no consoles. EPSPT also has a power transfer rate element to it, notice here the difference it makes over EPtW without any consoles
EPtW1 (No consoles) 1824
EPS (No consoles) 1979
And the gap between EPtW with a console and EPSPT with no consoles
EPtW1 (1 console) 1943
EPS (No consoles) 1979
Notice how the no console EPSPT outperforms the EPtW with console. Or even how EPtW with two consoles is still outperformed by EPSPT with only one console.
EPtW1 (2 consoles) 2185
EPS (1 console) 2233
All in all I would say this concludes to not buffing the EPtW however it is not a direct buff to DPS, rather an indirect one by means of the way power works in buffing damage (Power*0.02) using the power transfer rate to increase the speed at which overcapped power enters the system to increase the power level that most shots are fired at thereby increasing DPS.
Mine Trap Supporter
and this is true because...?
ohh wait somebody on the internet says so without any evidence...what a fool i've been for only accepting things that actually have evidence.
but you get a cookie for trying to be right so freaking hard!
@adamkafei
you say you did extensive testing, yet all you present is post after post wihout any pics or vids or combat logs...nada
if i cared enough, i could probably make a counter post with the same degree of credibility as yours...none to be precise.
linking to a post where you wrote down numbers can hardly count as evidence to the cause you present.
Not exclusively, any method of getting power over the cap will work, EPtW is simply the easiest, Aux2Batt will do the trick for example, the only prerequisite of EPS consoles boosting DPS is that weapon power is over the cap.
If I had an online storage area I would have given images rather than typed out data, sadly I lack that, however there is nothing stopping you testing for yourself in fact I even asked the community in my first post on the subject to test it to prove/disprove my findings, nobody did so I did some further testing and posted the results as you've seen.
In classic WoW the average level 60 character had about 3500 hit points and a large hit was 1000 to 1500. So even in WoW the numbers were much lower. Its just the power curve over the years have moved the numbers up tremendously. As an aside, Blizzard did say that at some point if they have to use scientific notation to show the numbers that they'll rebalance them.
That was a long time ago, though. When I last played, the DPS checks in top end content were set for around 10,000, and top end players were pushing 20k. That was 10 levels, 11 raids, and 2 expansions ago. Looking at the old parse ranking site my guild used to use, they're still around, and their top warlock is knocking on the door of 400,000 dps, which is just mind boggling.
But, yeah, numbers and power aren't really the same thing, because WoW is full of raid bosses with billions of hp. A whole group of ships in STO might do less damage than one character in WoW, but they'll be doing it against enemies that rarely have health reaching 7 digits. But when people get used to seeing those big numbers fly, I guess it's hard to give up.