Fleet Mines not giving a large enough discount

soundwisdom

The fleet holding was and quoted 'bring substantial increases' to the ability of small fleets to organize starbase construction. Initial math is showing that not only is this not even a 'substantial' difference, it's actually a huge resource sink for a very very long term benefit that will take a long time to 'pay off'.

This leads us, as a community, to believe that there is MOST DEFINETLY a bug in the math behind the system. Thinking the 3% should be 30% someone must have just missed a zero.

Thanks in advance Cryptic for fixing this awful bug.

kalvorax

once it hits t3 its 9% reduction....and its cheaper as each teir is reached for upgrading as the 3% stacks

elessym

cynder2012 wrote: »

once it hits t3 its 9% reduction....and its cheaper as each teir is reached for upgrading as the 3% stacks

Even if you do the Mine first, you will be further from completing the Starbase than if you just built the Starbase alone.

That's not helping out small fleets at all. In fact, it's been estimated that you would need another 3-4 holdings *after* the mine in order to just break even.

suaveks

Depends how you look at it.

In a VERY long term, this 9% discount will be noticeable, especially when Cryptic introduces more holdings in the future.

As it stands though, reaching Tier 3 is still gonna be a challenge for smaller fleets, if the costs are gonna remain the same as the embassy, with each project requiring dilithium and Mining Provisions in addition to other commodities. Even now one of my fleets is struggling with Tier 3 Embassy, because it requires even more dilithium total than a Tier 4 Starbase...

True, the discounts are a nice addition to some other nifty benefits we'll get, including new items, but if we're to judge the discount alone as a supposedly "substantial" difference for smaller fleets, then I as well believe the Mine is gonna end up draining even more resources than people would otherwise spend to reach any higher starbase Tier.

tpalelena

Wait, the dilithium mine takes dilithium to make?

That's..... just stupid. Are we mining the dilithium, or putting it back in the mine?

suaveks

Not to say it's really that stupid, but yeah, the mine requires dilithium and from what I've seen it's the same amounts as the embassy, so we can expect Tier 3 to cost 2mln dilithium...

Still, any info on the daily missions and how much they provide?

tpalelena

suaveks wrote: »

Not to say it's really that stupid, but yeah, the mine requires dilithium and from what I've seen it's the same amounts as the embassy, so we can expect Tier 3 to cost 2mln dilithium...

Still, any info on the daily missions and how much they provide?

Its just....really illogical that a dilithium mine takes dilithium to make.

Are they putting the dilithium on the asteroid before they mine it or something ?

soundwisdom

With the current costs the actual 'discount' and when it 'pays off' is just not acceptable. With the cost of the holding itself you're looking at a VERY VERY long term pay off. So much so that it's not really helping much - it's more of an investment.

TBH, if it costs 2 million; 10% off all future holding STILL isn't acceptable

kapla1755

so if I understand right the max discount is 9% ?

so for example my fleet is working on the T2 Embassy upgrade need 1mil dilith, if we managed to go full-tilt and complete the dilithium mine it would only cost us 910k vs 1mil?

that doesn't seem like much of a discount, now if it was 20%

it would be 800k vs 1mil

or 30%

700k vs 1mil that seems like a much better incentive.

All in all we will probably do the mine because some of those consoles look sweet :P

tlamstrike

tpalelena wrote: »

Its just....really illogical that a dilithium mine takes dilithium to make.

Are they putting the dilithium on the asteroid before they mine it or something ?

Right, because when they drill for oil they don't use petroleum products to lubricate the machinery or power the tankers and drilling platforms that are needed to get petroleum.

malkarris

About the daily minning missions, you have to unlock them. So at tier one, you can get a doff mission that gives you 250 dilithium per 20 hours. At tier 3, the same mission gives 500 dilithium per 20 hours. I missed the tier 2 version, but I assume it would be about 350. These missions do not stack, you one get one version depending on what tier you are. So you can't run both the tier 1 and the tier 2 missions if you are tier 2.

There is another mission that gives EC, 23,000 about to 33,000 about depending on tier.

The daily rich mining mission was not hooked up on tribble last night, but it only comes when you finish the mine, all tiers.

lucho80

Getting to a T5 SB was never supposed to be easy, done quickly, or resource light. Frankly, they have made plenty of nice changes (easier white doff on tribble right now, dil discounts, no green or better doffs, no rare drinks, etc) and the complaining goes on. The fleets that already used up massive amounts of resources are not complaining even if it's unfair to them (mine is about to hit T5 finally). A fleet with a couple of dedicated doff farmers and everyone dil farming should do fine progressing with all these helps. It wouldn't be special if every fleet in this game just breezed to T5.

crypticarmsman

Also, remember that the T3 9% discount applies not only to Fleet projects, but also lowers the Dilithium cost of items in Fleet stores (and as I understand it ANT Dilithium item store in the game) - so there is a pretty substantial benefit to not only being in a Fleet; but having the mine at T3.

That said, no, it's still not going to make a 1 person Fleet an easy/viable alternative.

stirling191

lucho80 wrote: »

Getting to a T5 SB was never supposed to be easy, done quickly, or resource light. Frankly, they have made plenty of nice changes (easier white doff on tribble right now, dil discounts, no green or better doffs, no rare drinks, etc) and the complaining goes on. The fleets that already used up massive amounts of resources are not complaining even if it's unfair to them (mine is about to hit T5 finally). A fleet with a couple of dedicated doff farmers and everyone dil farming should do fine progressing with all these helps. It wouldn't be special if every fleet in this game just breezed to T5.

I must have missed the part where a grind that takes at minimum more than a year was a breeze.

elessym

lucho80 wrote: »

Getting to a T5 SB was never supposed to be easy, done quickly, or resource light. Frankly, they have made plenty of nice changes (easier white doff on tribble right now, dil discounts, no green or better doffs, no rare drinks, etc) and the complaining goes on. The fleets that already used up massive amounts of resources are not complaining even if it's unfair to them (mine is about to hit T5 finally). A fleet with a couple of dedicated doff farmers and everyone dil farming should do fine progressing with all these helps. It wouldn't be special if every fleet in this game just breezed to T5.

It was committed to us several times that this new holding would make a "significant impact" in terms of helping small fleets to progress. However, it doesn't help at all. Building the mine actually delays your progress.

So regardless of how special being T5 makes you feel, the rest of us don't care - we just want what DStahl promised us.

elessym

crypticarmsman wrote: »

Also, remember that the T3 9% discount applies not only to Fleet projects, but also lowers the Dilithium cost of items in Fleet stores (and as I understand it ANT Dilithium item store in the game) - so there is a pretty substantial benefit to not only being in a Fleet; but having the mine at T3.

That said, no, it's still not going to make a 1 person Fleet an easy/viable alternative.

The size of the small fleet is irrelevant. It was supposed to help small fleets progress, not put them further behind.

elessym

malkarris wrote: »

About the daily minning missions, you have to unlock them. So at tier one, you can get a doff mission that gives you 250 dilithium per 20 hours. At tier 3, the same mission gives 500 dilithium per 20 hours. I missed the tier 2 version, but I assume it would be about 350. These missions do not stack, you one get one version depending on what tier you are. So you can't run both the tier 1 and the tier 2 missions if you are tier 2.

There is another mission that gives EC, 23,000 about to 33,000 about depending on tier.

The daily rich mining mission was not hooked up on tribble last night, but it only comes when you finish the mine, all tiers.

Thanks for digging out (ha!) that information. It puts to rest a lot of speculation that the mine would give huge amounts of dilithium.

poeddude

elessym wrote: »

So regardless of how special being T5 makes you feel, the rest of us don't care - we just want what DStahl promised us.

Don't hold your breath. He is a lying TRIBBLE. The proof is well documented.

Your first mistake was thinking anyone at Cryptic or PWE give a damn about broken promises or their players.

poeddude

So Cryptic did their trademark "toss the players a bone" and increased the discount to 4/9/15%.

However this still doesn't mean you break even even if you started a new fleet and leveled the dilithium mine exclusively first. The maths has been done and the magic number is 17%.

If you have already done starbase leveling that number needs to be significantly higher.

Standard Cryptic practice. Make a minor concession that makes no real difference and hope the players shut up. Not likely. :mad: