Birth of the Federation was, quite frankly, a terrible game - bad interface, weak 4X mechanics, insufficient variety of units, really awful unit range mechanics. We really ought to keep any inspiration from it as far from STO as we can get it.
No one said anything about porting the game into STO.
But rather how a 4X mini-game can be implemented in the future exploration system. It can be very easily both a single and a multiplayer component, even part of the PvP revamp they've been hinting at.
Ignum CampaignNWS-DBBV2EY9G "The quest for the Book of Ignum"
No more dilithium attached to things please. I cant work on my Doffs anymore without going broke on Dilithium. I dont know how people make so much a day but if i make 2000 its been an exceptional day for me. How ide like to see exploration work is as it is now but just fixed so that ship interiors make sense, that there are randomly made secondary missions you can discovered. Removing "roads" between objectives. And having dialogue make sense by locking certain dialogues to certain factions only so that we dont have Borg talking like Klingons. But thats never going to happen, its either going to be something Player made and horrible, or fleet only and horrible. So i have 0 hope for the future of exploration in this game being any way enjoyable for me.
I took dilithium as fuel so Cryptic can earn money with it. I would like to see the initial fuel costs relativ low, so even solo player can participate. And if they find a raw dilithium ressource they might get VERY rich. But I can also image that the last 1% of your journey could be very extensive and that big fleets are competing about those 1% investing much dilithium - so Cryptic can earn money with it.
I have read most of the suggestions here - the fact, that there are that many suggestions, and that people took their time to post them, makes it clear to me, that there needs to be real exploration in STO.
Nevertheless, most of those suggestions need massiv investment from Cryptic - so there has to be an outcome for Cryptic as well, otherwise its just unrealistic. I also do like some suggestions made in this thread more, than my own, but I think mine is a good compromisse between what we get, and what Cryptic has to invest.
I would also like to point out, that my suggestion don`t bring us consumable content but neverending fun. (sorry I had to write this.) I mean, all exploration content, which can not been reseted, or expanded indefinitly will be consumed very quick. So making something "turn/season-based", which generates a complete new adventure with not much investment costs (some new elements per season would do it), is preferable.
So another cash-grab for Cryptic to profit off of while leaving KDF in the dust and making Escorts Online even worse? How about hell no? I'm already stuck refining 8k a day and I -just- saw how much Dilithium is gonna be needed for the higher tier Reputation stuff.
Seriously, when did MMOs become crappy avatar portals to access 90's arcade games or feature-poor RTS minigames? I know it's nice and cheap & easy to throw together some crappy Unity browser game, link it to a button in the STO interface, and say "Exploration; done!", but that would really be the final straw for me.
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Exploration can't be relegated to a Window where you add some consumables and doffs and wait for a cool down.
This would be awful.
That isn't game play, and exploring space done properly with real creativity and quality would be much more profitable for STO in the long run than making it a mini game.
Something that blends eve's scanning and wormholes with the nebulae zones is the place to start.
I think it could quite easily. It would be much easyier to add sectors into a mini 2D game system like BOTF was that a 3D sector with G PvE and Space PVE
Seriously, when did MMOs become crappy avatar portals to access 90's arcade games or feature-poor RTS minigames? I know it's nice and cheap & easy to throw together some crappy Unity browser game, link it to a button in the STO interface, and say "Exploration; done!", but that would really be the final straw for me.
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
The underlined part....let me tell you now so you don't get disappointed later.
"it is never going to happen".
What you are asking for is no small task and i doubt Cryptic is going to make such enormous changes to a game which was meant to be a theme park MMO.
Maybe if some other company decides to make a sandbox STO game but the chances of that are also ZERO!
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
This. Well, but that can be achieved with some sort of ingame browsergame.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
You are right. And if they can do Exploration without monetizing it - it`s fine with me. Fuel could be everything buyable for EC. But: it needs some sort of fuel so building starbases from time to time gets necessary.
Exploration can't be relegated to a Window where you add some consumables and doffs and wait for a cool down.
This would be awful.
That isn't game play, and exploring space done properly with real creativity and quality would be much more profitable for STO in the long run than making it a mini game.
Something that blends eve's scanning and wormholes with the nebulae zones is the place to start.
You are right, too. But what you are suggesting would take immense amount of devtime. If they can do it - fine, but I think they can`t. So it may result in giving us a one time exploration adventure, as they can't do that much content on a permanent basis....so let`s keep it small, some tables, some ui, some new tasks, so Cryptic can continously support it...
the exploration system in botf was fantastic. we can drop all the other stuff. when u explored the map u never knew what you was going to find. it was proper exploration. a sence of unknown ant what annomaly / spieces you would run into. i have gd memories wih the game. was my first st game
I really like BOTF - it`s the best Star Trek game so far (yes better then STO). But that`s not because it`s "exploration". ;-)
Nevertheless - my suggestion is going in that direction. Cryptic should prepare some sectors, I would like to think of about 200 (if they can`t the foundry might) - mixing them into some 800 empty sectors - put in some rar ressources, some new species, some nice tasks, etc...add some new sectors every season, shuffle everything and let us discover and let the run begin!
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
It's because Icelanders are awesome. No other explanation needed.
That, and the MMO market doesn't necessarily reward bold, creative new thinking. These things are risks, and not many folks want to take risks with something like a large MMO game.
Seriously, when did MMOs become crappy avatar portals to access 90's arcade games or feature-poor RTS minigames? I know it's nice and cheap & easy to throw together some crappy Unity browser game, link it to a button in the STO interface, and say "Exploration; done!", but that would really be the final straw for me.
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
Fleet exploration is OK if there are fleet players interested in doing that. But as an individual player, I want to do old school Trek. One ship One Captain, One crew in the vastness of space mapping uncharted regions and surviving by their wits.
I would like to see a total revamp of the current exploration model. Starfleet Command sends you to an unexplored sector. when you get there, you have an empty map. Every new system gets added to your map and the map is yours to fill.
Each system could have anything: A pre-spacefaring civilization, an alien trading base where you can resupply, an existing colony, an uninhibited planet ready to colonize. Some may be encroached upon by one of your faction's enemies. Some systems will have none of these things but will be of scientific interest. There could be the occasional spacecraft in sector space. Some will be traders, some will represent friendly civilizations ready for diplomatic relations, others will be hostile. Sometimes you must brave natural phenomena which pose a risk to your ship because there would be comets and nebula and black holes and pulsars to study, and valuable scientific discoveries everywhere.
Since this is an MMO, maybe there could be ways to get friends involved if the player wishes.
Fleet exploration is OK if there are fleet players interested in doing that. But as an individual player, I want to do old school Trek. One ship one Captain, one crew in the vastness of space mapping uncharted regions and surviving by their wits.
I would like to see a total revamp of the current exploration model. Starfleet Command sends you to an unexplored sector. when you get there, you have an empty map. Every new system gets added to your map and the map is yours to fill.
Each system could have anything: A pre-spacefaring civilization, an alien trading base where you can resupply, an existing colony, an uninhibited planet ready to colonize. Some may be encroached upon by one of your faction's enemies. Some systems will have none of these things but will be of scientific interest. There could be the occasional spacecraft in sector space. Some will be traders, some will represent friendly civilizations ready for diplomatic relations, others will be hostile. Sometimes you must brave natural phenomena which pose a risk to your ship because there would be comets and nebula and black holes and pulsars to study, and valuable scientific discoveries everywhere.
Which is what we already have at a very, very basic level & would be really great if improved upon, and that is probably by far easier done than creating something completly new. Its just that nobody at cryptic has touched that system since its release.
Seriously, when did MMOs become crappy avatar portals to access 90's arcade games or feature-poor RTS minigames? I know it's nice and cheap & easy to throw together some crappy Unity browser game, link it to a button in the STO interface, and say "Exploration; done!", but that would really be the final straw for me.
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
This. I wholeheartedly support this posting - though this is essentially asking for a totally different game.
STO is no sandbox RPG game. It's a basic trinity MMO and essentially IS becoming a gateway for in-game browsergames. The whole DOFF system - who thinks HONESTLY it was a great adition to the GAMEPLAY? Clicking through the same menus again and again to grind more virtual currencies to sink into projects in another dull in-game menu - seriously, I don't want to do stuff like this. And if exploration, which should be what a Star Trek game is about, is just becoming another dull in-game-menu grind I don't need it. This game needs playable content, not more ressource sinks to waste time in. But like I said, this is asking for a totally different game.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
What follows is a copy-paste of something I suggested in an old exploration thread:
One thing I think might be neat would be player-interactive versions of the colony chains. So, you'd go through a series of missions, beginning with a system survey, then a planet survey, encounter with random native element, colony site survey, protect colonists from outside threat, chain complete.
This could be chock full of random elements. The planets could vary from Ice Planet to Vasquez Rocks. The native threat could be a virus, a plant, Space Gorillas, or the weather. If you negotiate with the outside threat, the next mission could be peaceful; if you fight it, the next mission would be a bigger battle.
If there are a hundred or more random elements for each mission, and if your interactions set the tone of the next link in the chain, it could be a while before this got old.
*break*
And while I'm having ideas for exploration, I'd also like to see first contact missions that feel real. This could be done as a chain of missions like the colony chain above, with each step in the first contact process (discovery, surveillance, high-level contact, public contact, conflict, resolution) as its own mission full of random elements, with each mission outcome affecting the tone of the following mission.
I really think this is do-able, if Cryptic puts some resources into it.
+1 for being on the right track.
Pure randomization for something like this is a tall order and not likely to work very well. If you look at the inconsistencies of the randomized exploration we have so far, you'll agree that we don't really need more of the same.
We need a way for Foundry authors to chain such missions together in order to provide a comprehensive story arc. This would open up infinite possibilities.
We also need more game features to support the kind of "non-combat" objectives that make it feel more like exploration.
The percentage-based exploration objectives in Tau Dewa and on New Romulus are a good place to start... let's expose those features for Foundry authors. New exploration-type mini-games like radiation scanning and mining could be included. New Exploration-based DOFF assignments that could be placed inside Foundry missions. Put the ability to build custom sector space maps in the Foundry and use that to link missions together. There's quite a lot that could be done there.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
We need a way for Foundry authors to chain such missions together in order to provide a comprehensive story arc. This would open up infinite possibilities.
Something I've wondered just from a legal position, could Cryptic implement the work of the Foundry as part of the base code without paying them to do it? I assume they would have to have the same type arrangement you have as a mod.
I think that's a good idea to use Foundry stuff for exploration, just wondering about the feasibility of implementing it.
It'd have to be something like how the current Featured missions work; you create things and flag them as submitted for Feature, and from there you cannot edit them without withdrawing them from that. If they are selected, you can no longer withdraw them and cannot edit them at all anymore.
So give a thing where they can be submitted for Exploration, and then once they're reviewed, they could be flagged into that system. From then on, the author could no longer edit them.
Then he just sits back and watches the Dil roll in. Or the bad reviews. Or both.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
This could be good if it's anything like Star Control. Maybe throw in some elements of colony building like Birth of the Federation, tie it into the doffs somehow and add in pvp-territory control.
This could be good if it's anything like Star Control. Maybe throw in some elements of colony building like Birth of the Federation, tie it into the doffs somehow and add in pvp-territory control.
Possibly colony building through fleets, but I hope you're referring to Star Control 2. That was one of the few games that actually felt like you were genuinely exploring the universe. (All the while rather limited due to being a 90s PC title)
Sure, the planets and enemies were all pallet swaps, but the races you met were all very well characterized and amusing, and each planet felt different, and least in the myriad ways it could kill you.
For the series that coined the term "RedShirt" this game doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for gruesome death. I'm rather disappointed.
Comments
No one said anything about porting the game into STO.
But rather how a 4X mini-game can be implemented in the future exploration system. It can be very easily both a single and a multiplayer component, even part of the PvP revamp they've been hinting at.
"The quest for the Book of Ignum"
"I have seen your future. I have seen your end"
And moved to the outskirts of the maps instead of being next to the Sol Systerm.
I keep looking at EvE and wondering how it is that a wee bunch of mad Icelanders who's company has been on the verge of financial collapse at least as often as Cryptic can manage to get exploration as a concept so thoroughly, while the people working on an IP which has been defined by exploring the unknown since its inception and has hundreds of episodes and hundreds more books worth of inspiration to draw from have gone from no ideas to just plain bloody awful ideas.
I want to take my Captain, my ship, and my crew, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before. I want to survey the stars to find inhabited planets, I want to set up observation stations on planets with pre-warp societies, I want to save an alien race from extinction or war or natural disaster, and learn something about humanity and my place in the universe by doing so.
And more than that; damnit, not everything in the game has to be "monetized". There needs to be some actual f***ing content for us to engage with, something to do in the game that allows us to use our monetized ships with monetized consoles and monetized weapons and monetized doffs etc etc etc. Exploration shouldn't be yet another vacant dilithium grind, it should be a content framework that interacts with existing monetized systems in a way that benefits both the players and the devs, like the LoR levelling process.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
This would be awful.
That isn't game play, and exploring space done properly with real creativity and quality would be much more profitable for STO in the long run than making it a mini game.
Something that blends eve's scanning and wormholes with the nebulae zones is the place to start.
The underlined part....let me tell you now so you don't get disappointed later.
"it is never going to happen".
What you are asking for is no small task and i doubt Cryptic is going to make such enormous changes to a game which was meant to be a theme park MMO.
Maybe if some other company decides to make a sandbox STO game but the chances of that are also ZERO!
You are right. And if they can do Exploration without monetizing it - it`s fine with me. Fuel could be everything buyable for EC. But: it needs some sort of fuel so building starbases from time to time gets necessary.
You are right, too. But what you are suggesting would take immense amount of devtime. If they can do it - fine, but I think they can`t. So it may result in giving us a one time exploration adventure, as they can't do that much content on a permanent basis....so let`s keep it small, some tables, some ui, some new tasks, so Cryptic can continously support it...
I really like BOTF - it`s the best Star Trek game so far (yes better then STO). But that`s not because it`s "exploration". ;-)
Nevertheless - my suggestion is going in that direction. Cryptic should prepare some sectors, I would like to think of about 200 (if they can`t the foundry might) - mixing them into some 800 empty sectors - put in some rar ressources, some new species, some nice tasks, etc...add some new sectors every season, shuffle everything and let us discover and let the run begin!
It's because Icelanders are awesome. No other explanation needed.
That, and the MMO market doesn't necessarily reward bold, creative new thinking. These things are risks, and not many folks want to take risks with something like a large MMO game.
This guy right here gets it. Well said.
Fleet exploration is OK if there are fleet players interested in doing that. But as an individual player, I want to do old school Trek. One ship One Captain, One crew in the vastness of space mapping uncharted regions and surviving by their wits.
I would like to see a total revamp of the current exploration model. Starfleet Command sends you to an unexplored sector. when you get there, you have an empty map. Every new system gets added to your map and the map is yours to fill.
Each system could have anything: A pre-spacefaring civilization, an alien trading base where you can resupply, an existing colony, an uninhibited planet ready to colonize. Some may be encroached upon by one of your faction's enemies. Some systems will have none of these things but will be of scientific interest. There could be the occasional spacecraft in sector space. Some will be traders, some will represent friendly civilizations ready for diplomatic relations, others will be hostile. Sometimes you must brave natural phenomena which pose a risk to your ship because there would be comets and nebula and black holes and pulsars to study, and valuable scientific discoveries everywhere.
Since this is an MMO, maybe there could be ways to get friends involved if the player wishes.
Which is what we already have at a very, very basic level & would be really great if improved upon, and that is probably by far easier done than creating something completly new. Its just that nobody at cryptic has touched that system since its release.
This. I wholeheartedly support this posting - though this is essentially asking for a totally different game.
STO is no sandbox RPG game. It's a basic trinity MMO and essentially IS becoming a gateway for in-game browsergames. The whole DOFF system - who thinks HONESTLY it was a great adition to the GAMEPLAY? Clicking through the same menus again and again to grind more virtual currencies to sink into projects in another dull in-game menu - seriously, I don't want to do stuff like this. And if exploration, which should be what a Star Trek game is about, is just becoming another dull in-game-menu grind I don't need it. This game needs playable content, not more ressource sinks to waste time in. But like I said, this is asking for a totally different game.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No... Just no
+1 for being on the right track.
Pure randomization for something like this is a tall order and not likely to work very well. If you look at the inconsistencies of the randomized exploration we have so far, you'll agree that we don't really need more of the same.
We need a way for Foundry authors to chain such missions together in order to provide a comprehensive story arc. This would open up infinite possibilities.
We also need more game features to support the kind of "non-combat" objectives that make it feel more like exploration.
The percentage-based exploration objectives in Tau Dewa and on New Romulus are a good place to start... let's expose those features for Foundry authors. New exploration-type mini-games like radiation scanning and mining could be included. New Exploration-based DOFF assignments that could be placed inside Foundry missions. Put the ability to build custom sector space maps in the Foundry and use that to link missions together. There's quite a lot that could be done there.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Something I've wondered just from a legal position, could Cryptic implement the work of the Foundry as part of the base code without paying them to do it? I assume they would have to have the same type arrangement you have as a mod.
I think that's a good idea to use Foundry stuff for exploration, just wondering about the feasibility of implementing it.
So give a thing where they can be submitted for Exploration, and then once they're reviewed, they could be flagged into that system. From then on, the author could no longer edit them.
Then he just sits back and watches the Dil roll in. Or the bad reviews. Or both.
Possibly colony building through fleets, but I hope you're referring to Star Control 2. That was one of the few games that actually felt like you were genuinely exploring the universe. (All the while rather limited due to being a 90s PC title)
Sure, the planets and enemies were all pallet swaps, but the races you met were all very well characterized and amusing, and each planet felt different, and least in the myriad ways it could kill you.
For the series that coined the term "RedShirt" this game doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for gruesome death. I'm rather disappointed.