I always need.
1) because everyone does it and if they don't when everyone is needing then they don't want it
2) because you really shouldn't need anything
3) because I can't see the item window because of the ui changes anyways
I am one of those with out greed and find it greatly beneath my self to " Need " everything like some greedy TRIBBLE.
I don't care if the system doesn't work because the community doesn't care. It's simply the principal of thing. To do the Right thing.
You have to have the will power to do whats right and not just follow the the few weak minded.
Yes some sort of punishment system put in if someone excessively " Need " 's find them self unable to roll on an item or two. It's easy to track what choice some one makes and once they hit X number just block the option for them to do so.
In a pug I tend to pass on items unless its an engine/shield or deflector, passing several times then hitting a need on any of those items almost always gives it to me.
A: I can't even read the items anymore, thanks for that black text on dark green btw.
B: While in battle, I'm not gonna stop fighting to read an item to see what it is or if its an upgrade, I'll do that AFTER I'm done fighting.
C: Everyone else needs everything as well, meaning that if you don't, you have no shot to get the item.
Just hit need and hope you get lucky, not like most of the stuff that drops is useful anyway.
But they also need everything in the sense that they can use it.
You would have a point if missions and dailies rewarded EC on top of their current rewards, but they don't. Cryptic has not supplied any way for people to earn EC in this game except selling loot. At all. That's why people need on everything -- all of that loot that drops just looks like EC to most people.
It's sad for people who could actually use some drops as upgrades, but the fact is that Cryptic neglected to supply players a way to actually reliably make EC, which means players are resorted to grabbing up whatever loot they can. When looking at the prices on the Exchange for some basic stuff (average of 3 million EC per Very Rare Mk XI Phaser Relay, for instance), people -- especially beginning players -- need a constant stream of EC that they aren't getting from anywhere else.
That's why people are aggressively hitting that Need button.
This is partly true, you can always re-run missions and sell the rewards for easy EC.
I do a mission regularly now because one of the rewards sells for 125,000 EC (bound as well), as well as giving me a unique weapon that I was able to get in all 8 weapon slots. So running this mission 8 times gave me a cool 1 million EC.
No I'm not telling what mission it is, don't want it nerfed.
In ye good olden days in WoW needing everything was grounds for being kicked from the team and together with the absence of communication or the exclusive use of emotes a way to identify gold farmers. One of the many things that gets lost if everything is automated.
I usually hit greed the first one or two times and watch what the others do. If there are people who need on every bit of TRIBBLE I do the same. No need to cheat myself.
That's because WoW has BoPs. As far as I can tell everything in this game is BoE. In WoW if BoE blues dropped most groups would have everyone Need if it was valuable. Which seems to be the same in this game.
but to me the hole thing greed and need, needs to be removed
and just have the hole system automatically randomly choose a
person everytime someone picks up an item.
If the system was automatic, it may as well not have items "dropping" visually, and just let them go straight to random roll. Would clean up some of the clutter in heavy action missions/queues and also prevent having to TRIBBLE around the map picking up loot designated for you that dropped from someone else's kill 20m away.
Or simply only reward loot at the end of the mission, the game could store the items until the mission was over and distribute them at the end.
Lets players focus on the mission at hand, and not fuss over constant loot drops.
I just hit need until I feel I have a fair share of the loot, or if I'm distracted I hit randomly. The system is a very annoying distraction, I'd prefer it simply drop for each individual and they can trade afterwards.
Huh, I always wondered why I never get any loot other than batteries, turns out it's because I was under the mistaken impression that Star Trek fans might have some vague understanding of the concepts of generosity and fairness, ah well
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Huh, I always wondered why I never get any loot other than batteries, turns out it's because I was under the mistaken impression that Star Trek fans might have some vague understanding of the concepts of generosity and fairness, ah well
Yeah I was the same way and then I got fed up with ending up with no loot. It has been disillusiining to see so many in STO do not share my love of the Utopian existance created by the federation, they just like STO for star ships and blowing things up. Its sad that average person still thinks like a Ferengi.
If I ever pug anything, I tend to greed more often than not. With missions with members of the Mighty 44th Fleet or 44th Assault Squadron [Applications accepted thru link in sig], the proper etiquette is to 'greed' unless the item is needed specifically to be used on a character. Needing for EC only is just, well, rude. At times one may take a jab in chat, such as, 'loot wh*re' for needing an item but we all realize its usually just vendor trash anyway so RNBFD.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." Q Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
The need/greed system is not actually really broken in STO (in my opinion). I've been playing MMO's for over 10 years now and have happily abided by it, however, in STO, the itemisation in the game is rubbish. Almost every item that drops in an STF is vender junk for the most part, with the very occasional item that may drop that is an upgrade for someone. But with so many items available from the dilithium store/crafting/fleet stores, it's rare fro anything of value to ever drop.
When I first started playing STO I quickly realised nothing ever dropped that I needed, there is not pattern to how items drop in STO, it's not like there are rare engines, shields, weapons that drop off bosses like in other MMO's, which is when the need/greed system really kicks in with those games. In STO, you may as well just need all the time, I know it sounds selfish, but after playing for quite a while now, the realisation is that for the most part, few items ever actually drop that are really needed and when an item drops that people really do want (like accx3 weapons), most people click need so they can sell it on the AH (which is technically a greed roll reason).
Whats needed in STO is a complete revamp of the itemisation and loot tables of mobs in STF's so that the Need/greed system is given meaning again, for example adding Bind on Pickup items with low resell value so that people actually pay more attention.
Originally, when MMO's were young, the "need" or "greed" system was incorporated to allow team members to be gracious and "greed" on an item that was for another class, but they could still use. This allowed teammates to acquire gear that they needed for their class, while still allowing a method to give the entire group an even chance at an item no one really NEED'ed.
While the concept is great, whomever did this had to face a real fact - not all of humanity thinks in the same rational and compassionate way they do.
So - what developed online in most MMO's was a tradition - in any Pick Up Group (PuGS) composed of random peeps, you would *ALWAYS* need on something you WANTED, and then either NEED'ed or GREED'ed on the rest. PuGs had TIME to DECLARE the loot rules before the RAID / encounter because typically the groups gathered beforehand, and people that didn't follow the rules were promptly kicked from the RAID, and likely forced-zoned into a normal instance.
(Unfortunately, STO doesn't do that. You queue for a PuG STF, you get dumped into it, and it immediately starts - because there will always be one person that just hits full impulse and runs in and starts gunning, riiiight ? )
It was UNDERSTOOD that if you hit GREED, -YOU- were the one saying basically "Yea, you know i like it, but don't have to have it!".
That doesn't translate into it being the other peoples fault. It just means you made a decision, and perhaps you didn't check with the rest of the team, or quite simply one or more members of the team don't care and are just going to hit "need" on everything for a variety of reasons.
You made the decision to hit "GREED". No one else did. No one forced you to click on that option.
So this thread is really about:
"I decided to do something and I feel like I got screwed because the other people I had teamed with didn't mindread my intentions and the wonderful person I am, so that means they're bad and I'm in the right!!!"
That's not what it means. It means you chose to do something in consideration of only a very small part of the reality of the situation. That's not their fault, that rests on YOUR shoulders, mates.
Bottom line, is this:
1.) Don't press "greed" on ANYTHING in a loot drop unless you don't want it and don't care if you get it. Trying to say GREED means anything else = you are deluded.
2.) Take the time to actually communicate to your team (If they listen is another story, I know, Lament of the Soloers) and let them know the Loot Rules. If it's a PuG, your screwed, end of story, unless everyone wants to agree to it, and even then you have those people who will agree, then NEED on everything and sit and giggle behind their monitor and keyboard.
3.) If you want something NEED it. If you do anything else, you have no right to be butthurt, or go to forums and post threads about said butthurt.
Huh, I always wondered why I never get any loot other than batteries, turns out it's because I was under the mistaken impression that Star Trek fans might have some vague understanding of the concepts of generosity and fairness, ah well
We can't be responsible for your personal beliefs, and that they don't line up with reality, mate
So - what developed online in most MMO's was a tradition - in any Pick Up Group (PuGS) composed of random peeps, you would *ALWAYS* need on something you WANTED, and then either NEED'ed or GREED'ed on the rest. PuGs had TIME to DECLARE the loot rules before the RAID / encounter because typically the groups gathered beforehand, and people that didn't follow the rules were promptly kicked from the RAID, and likely forced-zoned into a normal instance.
This. Any veteran MMO player knows this, but new players aren't aware of the etiquette. Right or wrong, that's the culture, and people aren't going to change it with forum posts in this game any more than they have in every other MMORPG ever.
This is more true in STO than in almost any MMORPG, because there is very little loot that's class-specific; what if you're flying your cruiser to gear up your escort? About the only thing that would fit "restrict Need to class gear" would be ground kits, and you don't change the entire system for one item. (And if you did, it would just increase queue times as more people would stop queueing for PUGs because they'd lose the income than would start because they prefer a different definition of "Need" than that the community has evolved).
"Need" on PUGs unless you don't want it in your bag at all. The only change I'd like to see Cryptic make is instead of "Pass", have "Recycle", which rolls with "Greed" but destroys the item on a win.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I am one of those with out greed and find it greatly beneath my self to " Need " everything like some greedy TRIBBLE.
I don't care if the system doesn't work because the community doesn't care. It's simply the principal of thing. To do the Right thing.
You have to have the will power to do whats right and not just follow the the few weak minded.
Yes some sort of punishment system put in if someone excessively " Need " 's find them self unable to roll on an item or two. It's easy to track what choice some one makes and once they hit X number just block the option for them to do so.
I agree. just because most of the people do it does not mean I will do it.
and for all the people here that do it because of EC you need to learn how to farm better. queue missions are not the place to make the EC.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
This. Any veteran MMO player knows this, but new players aren't aware of the etiquette. Right or wrong, that's the culture, and people aren't going to change it with forum posts in this game any more than they have in every other MMORPG ever.
It has very little to do with new player mentality. It's a genre issue and gameplay issue. The games of old had an entirely different frontier community and item acquisition setup, not to mention class restricted items, no drop tags, reputation for your character mattered, communities were smaller, dungeons took planning and pre-formed groups and so forth. Exclusion from groups or raids was important. Today everyone can get away with acting like a tosser.
Whats needed in STO is a complete revamp of the itemisation and loot tables of mobs in STF's so that the Need/greed system is given meaning again, for example adding Bind on Pickup items with low resell value so that people actually pay more attention.
It would require a rework of the entire foundation of the item acquisition formula employed, item ranks/marks, classes, ship roles, values urgh and tons more to fit in the mark/rarity setup as item drops in any meaningful way IMHO.
As item drops for the most part only serve to give players Energy Credits from vendoring the majority of the items, or the rare few assorted items which still fetches a value on the Exchange there's a couple more obvious smaller scale "revamp" options
* Remove item drops
This have a two fold impact. Players can immerse/concentrate on the task at hand, the mission and it's objective. There is no worry about flying around gathering loot drops, or having to frequently press need/greed/pass, and it removes some of the visual clutter. It also makes it easier to control inflation.
* At mission completion you are awarded x# of lockboxes + a fixed amount of Energy Credits appropriate for the expected duration and difficulty of the mission, with bonus for Optional Objective completions, and extra bonus for first time completions.
* The Reputation system for better or worse acts like a Requisition system, you put in what the system needs, and in turn you can requisition new stuff.
It could form the foundation for a system which lets players engineer items to their desire based on a baseline template of a common item requisitioned from the system and subsequently upgraded.
Toss in a chance to fail the upgrade by zeroing out the upgrades, or stopping item progression at the last upgraded step without possibility of further upgrades, and you effectively limit the top rare items so everyone doesn't cap out immediately, but it does make them attainable.
Might as well be Greed or Pass as Need don't work. The over greedy just > Need < everything.
Those that are not greedy can only resort to Pass on everything with out falling to the same low.
Shouldn't we be striving to make things better...not join with the same failure?
how do you know they don't really need the items? and besides , who really "needs" anything anyway...? it's just a game... don't take it so seriously. If you get an item you get it, if not, well maybe next time right?
I'm fairly new (not to MMO's) so I used to practice need/greed etiquette.Then I see fully geared level 50s needing every green item drop and thought to hell with it.
I'm fairly new (not to MMO's) so I used to practice need/greed etiquette.Then I see fully geared level 50s needing every green item drop and thought to hell with it.
It's the EC farming mentality.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
1) because everyone does it and if they don't when everyone is needing then they don't want it
2) because you really shouldn't need anything
3) because I can't see the item window because of the ui changes anyways
I don't care if the system doesn't work because the community doesn't care. It's simply the principal of thing. To do the Right thing.
You have to have the will power to do whats right and not just follow the the few weak minded.
Yes some sort of punishment system put in if someone excessively " Need " 's find them self unable to roll on an item or two. It's easy to track what choice some one makes and once they hit X number just block the option for them to do so.
Why?
A: I can't even read the items anymore, thanks for that black text on dark green btw.
B: While in battle, I'm not gonna stop fighting to read an item to see what it is or if its an upgrade, I'll do that AFTER I'm done fighting.
C: Everyone else needs everything as well, meaning that if you don't, you have no shot to get the item.
Just hit need and hope you get lucky, not like most of the stuff that drops is useful anyway.
I miss actually caring about what was in the common drops.
This is partly true, you can always re-run missions and sell the rewards for easy EC.
I do a mission regularly now because one of the rewards sells for 125,000 EC (bound as well), as well as giving me a unique weapon that I was able to get in all 8 weapon slots. So running this mission 8 times gave me a cool 1 million EC.
No I'm not telling what mission it is, don't want it nerfed.
That's because WoW has BoPs. As far as I can tell everything in this game is BoE. In WoW if BoE blues dropped most groups would have everyone Need if it was valuable. Which seems to be the same in this game.
If the system was automatic, it may as well not have items "dropping" visually, and just let them go straight to random roll. Would clean up some of the clutter in heavy action missions/queues and also prevent having to TRIBBLE around the map picking up loot designated for you that dropped from someone else's kill 20m away.
Or simply only reward loot at the end of the mission, the game could store the items until the mission was over and distribute them at the end.
Lets players focus on the mission at hand, and not fuss over constant loot drops.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Yeah I was the same way and then I got fed up with ending up with no loot. It has been disillusiining to see so many in STO do not share my love of the Utopian existance created by the federation, they just like STO for star ships and blowing things up. Its sad that average person still thinks like a Ferengi.
Need/Greed/Pass is highly annoying because everyone is so greedy....
EDIT: hmm actually roll/pass is already like that, now that I think about it, LOL
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
When I first started playing STO I quickly realised nothing ever dropped that I needed, there is not pattern to how items drop in STO, it's not like there are rare engines, shields, weapons that drop off bosses like in other MMO's, which is when the need/greed system really kicks in with those games. In STO, you may as well just need all the time, I know it sounds selfish, but after playing for quite a while now, the realisation is that for the most part, few items ever actually drop that are really needed and when an item drops that people really do want (like accx3 weapons), most people click need so they can sell it on the AH (which is technically a greed roll reason).
Whats needed in STO is a complete revamp of the itemisation and loot tables of mobs in STF's so that the Need/greed system is given meaning again, for example adding Bind on Pickup items with low resell value so that people actually pay more attention.
While the concept is great, whomever did this had to face a real fact - not all of humanity thinks in the same rational and compassionate way they do.
So - what developed online in most MMO's was a tradition - in any Pick Up Group (PuGS) composed of random peeps, you would *ALWAYS* need on something you WANTED, and then either NEED'ed or GREED'ed on the rest. PuGs had TIME to DECLARE the loot rules before the RAID / encounter because typically the groups gathered beforehand, and people that didn't follow the rules were promptly kicked from the RAID, and likely forced-zoned into a normal instance.
(Unfortunately, STO doesn't do that. You queue for a PuG STF, you get dumped into it, and it immediately starts - because there will always be one person that just hits full impulse and runs in and starts gunning, riiiight ?
It was UNDERSTOOD that if you hit GREED, -YOU- were the one saying basically "Yea, you know i like it, but don't have to have it!".
That doesn't translate into it being the other peoples fault. It just means you made a decision, and perhaps you didn't check with the rest of the team, or quite simply one or more members of the team don't care and are just going to hit "need" on everything for a variety of reasons.
You made the decision to hit "GREED". No one else did. No one forced you to click on that option.
So this thread is really about:
"I decided to do something and I feel like I got screwed because the other people I had teamed with didn't mindread my intentions and the wonderful person I am, so that means they're bad and I'm in the right!!!"
That's not what it means. It means you chose to do something in consideration of only a very small part of the reality of the situation. That's not their fault, that rests on YOUR shoulders, mates.
Bottom line, is this:
1.) Don't press "greed" on ANYTHING in a loot drop unless you don't want it and don't care if you get it. Trying to say GREED means anything else = you are deluded.
2.) Take the time to actually communicate to your team (If they listen is another story, I know, Lament of the Soloers) and let them know the Loot Rules. If it's a PuG, your screwed, end of story, unless everyone wants to agree to it, and even then you have those people who will agree, then NEED on everything and sit and giggle behind their monitor and keyboard.
3.) If you want something NEED it. If you do anything else, you have no right to be butthurt, or go to forums and post threads about said butthurt.
Regards,
We can't be responsible for your personal beliefs, and that they don't line up with reality, mate
Regards,
if u need roll cus u need ec your doing it wrong
This. Any veteran MMO player knows this, but new players aren't aware of the etiquette. Right or wrong, that's the culture, and people aren't going to change it with forum posts in this game any more than they have in every other MMORPG ever.
This is more true in STO than in almost any MMORPG, because there is very little loot that's class-specific; what if you're flying your cruiser to gear up your escort? About the only thing that would fit "restrict Need to class gear" would be ground kits, and you don't change the entire system for one item. (And if you did, it would just increase queue times as more people would stop queueing for PUGs because they'd lose the income than would start because they prefer a different definition of "Need" than that the community has evolved).
"Need" on PUGs unless you don't want it in your bag at all. The only change I'd like to see Cryptic make is instead of "Pass", have "Recycle", which rolls with "Greed" but destroys the item on a win.
I agree. just because most of the people do it does not mean I will do it.
and for all the people here that do it because of EC you need to learn how to farm better. queue missions are not the place to make the EC.
It has very little to do with new player mentality. It's a genre issue and gameplay issue. The games of old had an entirely different frontier community and item acquisition setup, not to mention class restricted items, no drop tags, reputation for your character mattered, communities were smaller, dungeons took planning and pre-formed groups and so forth. Exclusion from groups or raids was important. Today everyone can get away with acting like a tosser.
It would require a rework of the entire foundation of the item acquisition formula employed, item ranks/marks, classes, ship roles, values urgh and tons more to fit in the mark/rarity setup as item drops in any meaningful way IMHO.
As item drops for the most part only serve to give players Energy Credits from vendoring the majority of the items, or the rare few assorted items which still fetches a value on the Exchange there's a couple more obvious smaller scale "revamp" options
* Remove item drops
This have a two fold impact. Players can immerse/concentrate on the task at hand, the mission and it's objective. There is no worry about flying around gathering loot drops, or having to frequently press need/greed/pass, and it removes some of the visual clutter. It also makes it easier to control inflation.
* At mission completion you are awarded x# of lockboxes + a fixed amount of Energy Credits appropriate for the expected duration and difficulty of the mission, with bonus for Optional Objective completions, and extra bonus for first time completions.
* The Reputation system for better or worse acts like a Requisition system, you put in what the system needs, and in turn you can requisition new stuff.
It could form the foundation for a system which lets players engineer items to their desire based on a baseline template of a common item requisitioned from the system and subsequently upgraded.
Toss in a chance to fail the upgrade by zeroing out the upgrades, or stopping item progression at the last upgraded step without possibility of further upgrades, and you effectively limit the top rare items so everyone doesn't cap out immediately, but it does make them attainable.
how do you know they don't really need the items? and besides , who really "needs" anything anyway...? it's just a game... don't take it so seriously. If you get an item you get it, if not, well maybe next time right?
It's the EC farming mentality.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek