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D'deridex makes lots of sense
monkeybone13
Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
First I'll start by saying that the general feedback section of the forums seems to have been removed completely. In the list here http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/ it use to be right under Ten Forward, right at the top of the Feedback list. But since this is related to the Romulan faction I guess I need to post it here.
At level 30 I had only 1 option for my free ship, a D'ederidex ship. It can equip dual cannons and moves slower than molasses. Yeah.......That makes a LOT of sense. I had the dual cannons from the Installation 18 episode reward and saw I could equip them on this giant hunk of TRIBBLE.
This ship is fugly but I could look past that if it actually turned good to use dual cannons. What the heck is the point of equipping dual cannons when the stupid thing is better suited for broadsiding an enemy with beams? "You should equip an RCS Accelerator console".......Yeah but it still doesn't turn fast enough to make use of dual cannons. "Use your battle cloak for better turn rate" Yeah but I can't SHOOT while cloaked and I find it very tedious having to constantly use my battle cloak just so I can get the ship into position to use the dual cannons for like 5 seconds before the enemy is on the side of me again then use the cloak to get into position again and repeat until you want to punch your monitor. It makes battles take to long having to constantly reposition myself every 20 seconds or so.
Being allied with Feds, I tried using my Exploration Cruiser Refit (Venture class) and it doesn't turn any better than the D'deridex.
Just a few more levels and I FINALLY have an actual choice between THREE ships for my final free ship. As a tactical captain I plan to take the Ha'feh.
I think the option to equip dual cannons on the D'deridex should just be removed. There is no point.
I hate this ship and I'll be glad to get rid of it in a few levels when I get my final free ship.
At level 30 I had only 1 option for my free ship, a D'ederidex ship. It can equip dual cannons and moves slower than molasses. Yeah.......That makes a LOT of sense. I had the dual cannons from the Installation 18 episode reward and saw I could equip them on this giant hunk of TRIBBLE.
This ship is fugly but I could look past that if it actually turned good to use dual cannons. What the heck is the point of equipping dual cannons when the stupid thing is better suited for broadsiding an enemy with beams? "You should equip an RCS Accelerator console".......Yeah but it still doesn't turn fast enough to make use of dual cannons. "Use your battle cloak for better turn rate" Yeah but I can't SHOOT while cloaked and I find it very tedious having to constantly use my battle cloak just so I can get the ship into position to use the dual cannons for like 5 seconds before the enemy is on the side of me again then use the cloak to get into position again and repeat until you want to punch your monitor. It makes battles take to long having to constantly reposition myself every 20 seconds or so.
Being allied with Feds, I tried using my Exploration Cruiser Refit (Venture class) and it doesn't turn any better than the D'deridex.
Just a few more levels and I FINALLY have an actual choice between THREE ships for my final free ship. As a tactical captain I plan to take the Ha'feh.
I think the option to equip dual cannons on the D'deridex should just be removed. There is no point.
I hate this ship and I'll be glad to get rid of it in a few levels when I get my final free ship.
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I'm running 3 dual heavy cannons and a torpedo forward, and 4 turrets rear. With the other components I have equipped, my turn rate is 14.5 deg/sec when running at 25% throttle. My tactical skills are Cannon Scatter Volley I and Torpedo Spread 3, with the obligatory tactical team to help not die.
I've found that the best way to attack with the ship is to use the singularity projectile - it comes with the ship's console, and once it gathers the group of enemy ships together, I'll open up with the AOE attacks simultaneously.
After that I attack targets of opportunity. By this, I mean that I switch targets so that I am engaging anything that is in my forward firing arcs. Usually, by this point, if there is anything still alive, its weak enough to be finished off by my 4 turrets in relatively short order. Cloaking would probably be more efficient, but I haven't found it very necessary.
The singularity projectile can also be used to pull enemies in front of you again if you are close enough to them.
The only real issue is that the ship requires a relatively specialized build - which needs the 200 lobi Tachyokinetic Converter console, both of the D'Deridex consoles, an RCS Console, and, the Aegis Set in order to maximize its turn rate.
(As an aside, this is the first character I've actually bothered to max crafting with so that I could build my own Aegis set)
All this being said about how entertaining it can be at max level....
At Commander, my build mainly consisted of whatever equipment I picked up leveling. However, I did invest in a full load out of RCS consoles from the dilithium store. When I was testing on tribble, the low turn rate melted my brain and I switched to the Defiant since that was what I had been used to.
This time I gave it a proper chance, and I adjusted my tactics and expectations accordingly. It wasn't as bad.
The second problem with it is the lack of console slots. Without those its not possible to add enough widgets to goose the speed by any significant amount while preserving any kind of survivability. This isnt as much of a problem with the Galaxy counterpart because of point 1 above (people aren't forced to take the Galaxy).
Something I suggested elsewhere was to go ahead and move it to Tier-5 and give it 8-9 console slots. Then it will be another option next to the other three tier-5 ships and people wont be forced into it. And if they do take it, they have enough console slots to make it usable.
Then move the Mogai to tier-4. With 4/3 weapons and 7 consoles, it would be a very good ship that could easily go all the way to end-game if you wanted.
For tier-3, make weaker versions of the current tier-5 ships so that people have profession-specific ships to use earlier in the game. They can stick with those and slug it out to tier-5 or take the mogai at tier-4.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
I've struggled to get a build I like for it but it's like a wild beast that just needs to be tamed. Frankly the +2 turn from the 2 part set bonus is a tad overrated to me, but maybe if I was using DHC instead of DBB it would appeal to me more.
You either get it or you don't, it's an iconic ship that thanks to doffs can work in a niche sort of way.
You can use it for stealth attack runs. But it can do a lot of stuff, except turn quickly.
My character Tsin'xing
But in PvP the DD is....pretty hopeless.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Just because you lack the skill in making cannons work on the D'Deridex, nor even the most minimal of adjustments to your setup, doesn't mean the D'Deridex is not a suitable platform for the weapons.
Just because you're too lazy to do anything for the ship, doesn't mean the D'Deridex is terrible. Just because you quickly, and easily give up despite many pointers on making this ship work, does not make the ship bad.
It's just you, and anyone else that refuses to learn and adapt. Ignorance is one thing. Laziness and a give up attitude despite finally knowing what to do to make it better, is a whole different thing.
Really, I can't fathom how someone could be unable to use DHC on a D'deridex in PVE, or for that matter, if they cannot, why they don't just get some beams.
Oh well...
Will say although i don't really dabble in pvp as its a bit elitiest atm, yes this ship sucks in that regaurd but tbh pvp is so borked in this game its not really worth mentioning till they revamp it where stealthing tanks might be good for contesting objective type games at some point. Or a capture flag(spy/diplomat theme concept) and deliver them somewhere concept where a tough sneak like this big girl would work in its place.
W.B. Yeats
Lifer since beta its never been so good! So now can everyone chill this game is going in the right direction :P
No, I only use DHC on the D'Deridex, I wouldn't even use the ship anymore if that were to happen. Not everyone has a hard time piloting that ship like you do, I have no problems using DHC on it, and would have no problems using them to tear your pos Hafeh to shreds without barely getting my hull scratched.
Why are you even playing a Romulan if you hate the looks and everything about their most iconic ship anyway, that hafeh doesn't even look romulan at all, it looks like a **** with nacellles on it.
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. It's wrong, and isn't based on facts or reality, but hey, it's still your opinion.
Like others in this thread, I'll point out that using DHC's is certainly feasible.
DD isn't the fastest turner but like many people have said you have to customise your build to suit the ship.
I'm running full cannon fit using the engi and sci slots to manipulate my targets for best positioning. I haven't really needed to worry about tanking tbh cos its a beast.
For the intelligent and critical thinkers, it makes for a fine cannon boat for any career captain.
So what was the problem with the D'deridex again?
As for his problems, I repeat what I said in other threads: I run a DHC and beams in the back layout and have no problems keeping things within the arc. The two console bonus from the c store DDs and RCS consoles with some smart use of skills and you are fine. If you can't keep it within cannon arc the ship also does fine as a beam boat.
Look at how much better it is then the galaxy
Count yourself lucky to have such a overpowered ship at level 30
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Right, all you need are a couple of c-store ships for the modest sum of $30 (mind you, one of which has a Vice Admiral req.) and a few RCS consoles and you are fine... piloting a lvl 30 ship. :P
While I certainly agree the "fugly" comment was silly, the OP kinda does have a point: it is rather an abrupt change of pace to go from a Mogai to a DD, and it would be nice to have a little more variety of choice without having to resort to using ally ships.
Variety is the spice of life and it would be great to have more ship choices. That being said there is nothing wrong with the lvl 30 DD. I did fine without the c store console bonus on my first one and still did a DHC build with no trouble.
It doesn't kill as fast as a tac in a DHC escort, obviously, but it kills reasonably fast and tanks like a boss. It's been a good ship for me, even though I think I could tweak my BOFF layout to get better performance.
I think I need to try an aux power to battery set-up.
But due to this I decided to stick with my C-Store Valdore/Mogai mix all the way until I got my Mogai-Retrofit. Didn't have any real issues while leveling and eventually got myself a Fleet Mogai once I had the creds. It is ENTIRELY possible to skip the D'D and keep using a different ship should you so choose.
When open Beta for LOR hit tribble I was one of the first to say WTF is this and that it should be changed. Once LOR launched and the Flotilla section was added to the forums I immediately started a thread about the turn rate, not just for discussions about if it should be changed or not, but also builds that didn't rely on cloaking to turn or other such nonsense, and to the credit of all the players willing to try and learn, we came up with a very wide variety of options.
More often than not the problem isn't with the game, it's with the gamer. Games have evolved, or should I say devolved into this "this is too hard." "some people think it's too hard so we have to make it easier right away". This attitude more than anything needs to be changed. I can remember playing games where it took hours, sometimes even days to get past a certain part trying all sorts of different tactics and the sense of pride and accomplishment when I finally got pasted it. Many times I would run across something similar in another game, and that prior experience helped greatly in that game as well.