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cutting beam vs turret and launcher vs 4th gun on escorts
osirisraa
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
I see alot of people talking about cutting beam and assi mod to get a +10 to weapons power and am wounding if someone could show me why +10 to weapons power and a cutting beam is better dps then a 3rd turret effectived by 5 relays.
Also I see players going with the adapted macro set (to get a 25% to there launcher) and a launcher over a forth DHC effected by 5 relays and 3 piece elite fleet engine, defector, shield set. In terms of DPS or overall quality can someone explain why the launcher/adapted is the better choice
Also I see players going with the adapted macro set (to get a 25% to there launcher) and a launcher over a forth DHC effected by 5 relays and 3 piece elite fleet engine, defector, shield set. In terms of DPS or overall quality can someone explain why the launcher/adapted is the better choice
Post edited by osirisraa on
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DISCLAIMER: Skills/BOff abilities are NOT taken into account during any calculations/rough estimations that follow
If you want numbers here's an example.
A mk XII turret unbuffed, no boosters does roughly 200 damage. The base damage is actually 101.4. 100 Weapons power makes it roughly double that, so ~200. The Kinetic Cutting Beam will do ~750 damage unbuffed at 100 weapons power. Source info below:
http://i46.tinypic.com/14t3dhj.jpg <--- turret
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Kinetic_Cutting_Beam#Kinetic_Cutting_Beam <--- KCB
Now let's take that 200 damage, and give it 5 mk XII phaser relays which each give +30% base damage. Your turret gains +150% base, which puts it at 250%. That's still only a base of ~250. 250 at 100 weapons power (which roughly doubles damage dealt with energy weapons) is still only 500. Any additional damage buffs will affect both weapons. So as you can see, the Cutting Beam still out-damages the Turret by 50%.
Therefore, KCB out-does turret by a lot. Add in that it loses far less damage over distance (it's a beam, only loses about 40% damage at 10k, whereas the turret is a cannon, loses 60% damage at 10k), AND it has the omega proc, AND it kills crew, AND it deals bonus damage against bare hull (kinetic damage always does a hell of a lot more), it's superior.
As for the Torp with Adapted MACO/KHG sets vs 4 DHCs, it's really up to the player. If you have 3 purple Projectile weapons officers, the Torp DPS (dependent on the torp) will be equal if not higher than that of DHC, but ONLY ON UNSHIELDED TARGETS (unless you're running transphasics, that's a whole other horse to beat).
Same disclaimer as above, and here are some numbers (they are rough guesses, don't blast me)
Sources:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/892/mark12.jpg <--- Dual Heavy Cannons
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee372/pandoraskitten/Regent%20Class%20ACR/GameClient2012-08-1809-28-26-87.jpg <--- bunch of quantums
However, a DHC has ~300 base damage, add in the +150% that brings it up to 750 base damage. That's ~800 DPS. A quantum torp, the hardest hitting torp, (no proj weap officers) will only have a DPS of ~3-350. Even with the 25% boost, that's only ~375-400 DPS. But if you add in the Projectile Weapons Officers, they can triple (and in some cases quadruple if not quintuple) the firing rate of the torpedo, turning that ~375-400 DPS into sometimes as high as 2000+ DPS. If you use a Romulan Hyper Plasma Torpedo, it can go even higher (I once parsed just the Romulan Hyper Plasma at 3k DPS with just the Romulan 2 piece bonus (torp and Zero point) on a chel'gret with the full KHG set and 3 purple DOffs, without using a single damage buff. And once I hit the buffs, that ONE TORPEDO went up to 10-12k DPS depending on officer procs). But ONLY ON UNSHIELDED TARGETS.
So that's more users choice than anything, since DHCs are constant stable damage, whereas torps are burst damage with a chance of failing at constant damage.
In my opinion, both are decent, and I use both. Sometimes I go with a torp, others I go with full energy. Again, it's situational, based on how I feel, and just users choice, since I find both to be quite effective.
kinetic cutting beam + assimilated module does 1108 dps.
turret [Acc]x2[CrtH] only does 650 dps.
With cannon rapid fire 1:
turret [Acc]x2[CrtH] only does 837 dps.
With cannon rapid fire 2:
turret [Acc]x2[CrtH] only does 902 dps.
cutting beam wins! Plus, it does kinetic damage which sometimes is more harmful than energy damage.
Since I run dual cannons, omega weapon amplifier (OWA) is very useful to keep power levels up. And it stacks! I sometimes see 2 or 3 OWA's.
If there is a good reason to ditch the cutting beam, I would love to know.
I am curious. What are your numbers with 5 tac consoles?
There isn't. Read the first half of my post. XD.
EDIT: There is one reason a turret might do better than a KCB. When used on shields, a KCB only does 25% of it's maximum possible damage. Buuut against NPCs, that's a null point. And in PvP, the Omega Weapons Amplifier proc is wonderful (increases weapon power AND reduces drain). So maybe it's still better anyways XD.
There is. As you stated yourself you did not take skills into account. Depending on different missions I use scatter volley a lot (SB24, minefield, fleet defense etc.). KCB deals just about 50% dmg of a turret there for me. So the answer is not as easy as it seems...
The kinetic cutting beam is [dmg]x3.
In some situations, [Acc] may be better since a miss does no damage.
I fly the Delta flyer with the Assimilated module and the cutting beam.
And yes, the beam sometimes misses fast moving targets.
Ah yes, thank you for the reminder there. That is the main weakness of the KCB. It cannot be amplified in any way. Beam abilities don't affect it, and cannon abilities can affect turrets. However I personally would take a KCB over a turret.
Targets moving that fast are likely to be missed by your turrets as well, but you do have a point there as well. But as stated above, I would still take a KCB over a turret XP. Call me stubborn/old fashioned.
looks like the cutting beam wins over the turret. In the case of fleet acc x2 turret and of CSV it looks close but it seems the set bounce with assi mod pushes the beam out in front as the on the average over all choice. Thx for the good references and number guys.
the console is very useful, it is a must for most builds. the KCB is different tho. it is less versitile than a turret. but it gives a decent proc with the console, and deals a bit more dmg than a turret. in STFs KCB is great. you have loads of unshielded targets, and if you run full energy setup, the shields wont be a problem for too long.
I have parsed loads of games with the KCB, and compared to one turret, the overall dps in an stf is around the same, maybe leaning toward the KCB winning. however it is hard to measure (so I didnt), what effect the proc has (or how much does it have)
it is not
again, it is a situational thing. the torp is better against bare hull, but has a lower crit chance, and is slow, plus it can be shot down, and is useless against shields (aka not too versitile). the adapted set as a choice for that is obvious. it is a viable setup, but less versitile, and imo it even has less DPS in the long run
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
OWA radically trumps the minor AoE gain when comparing a turret to the KCB in a vacuum. In addition, OWA will actually increase your total damage output since it boosts all your other energy weapons.
Not to mention the bonkers crits you can get from the KCB on hull.