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T'varo vs B'rel - KDF at a significant disadvantage?
sethketa
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So, after looking over the stats of the Fleet T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit, I realized that the ship is significantly better than the B'rel Fleet Bird-of-Prey Retrofit.
From my understanding, Birds-of-Prey were designed with a lack of a fifth Bridge Officer, and more generalized console layouts to combat the fact that they had an in-Battle Cloak, and were very nimble craft. The B'rel was designed to offset the advantages of an Enhanced Battle Cloak. Because of these advantages, the B'rel (at the very least) has a very weak hull and very weak shields. However, when comparing the B'rel to the new T'varo Retrofit, the Bird-of-Prey class seems simply obsolete.
Now, I'd like to get something out of the way before I continue any further. *Yes, I realize Romulans are the masters of cloaking technology.* That said, gameplay and game balance are far more important than being strictly regulated to following canon.
So, there are two options here that Cryptic could take:
1) The T'varo is made weaker to be on-par with the B'rel, making it an equivalent choice, not a superior choice.
2) The B'rel and other Birds-of-Prey are given a balance pass to bring them up to par with the new bar that Romulan ships have set for Battle Cloaking ships.
If buffing the B'rel and other Birds-of-Prey would be viewed as making these ships "overpowered", then why are players ignoring ships that are simply superior in every way?
Just to illustrate the difference for those who do not wish to look at the Wiki:
The T'varo has 4,950 more hull points than the B'rel
The T'varo's shield modifier is 0.99, the B'rel's modifier is 0.88
The T'varo has 4 fore weapons and 3 aft, the B'rel has 4 fore and only 2 aft.
The T'varo has 150 crew, while the B'rel only has 30.
The T'varo has 4 tactical consoles, while the B'rel has 4 engineering consoles.
The B'rel's turn rate is 23, while the T'varo's turn rate is 18
The B'rel has +15 weapon power, while the T'varo has +10 weapon, +5 engine.
The T'varo has 1 Cmd Tac, 1 Ens Tac, 1 Lt Eng, 1 Lt Sci, 1 Lt. Cmd Universal
The B'rel has 1 Cmd Universal, 1 Lt. Cmd Universal, 2 Lt. Universal
Summary: The T'varo is superior to the B'rel in all areas except two. It does not have as high of a turn rate, and it has 40 less subsystem power. However, I do not believe that 40 additional subsystem power can compensate for all of the other advantages a T'varo brings to the table over the B'rel.
From my understanding, Birds-of-Prey were designed with a lack of a fifth Bridge Officer, and more generalized console layouts to combat the fact that they had an in-Battle Cloak, and were very nimble craft. The B'rel was designed to offset the advantages of an Enhanced Battle Cloak. Because of these advantages, the B'rel (at the very least) has a very weak hull and very weak shields. However, when comparing the B'rel to the new T'varo Retrofit, the Bird-of-Prey class seems simply obsolete.
Now, I'd like to get something out of the way before I continue any further. *Yes, I realize Romulans are the masters of cloaking technology.* That said, gameplay and game balance are far more important than being strictly regulated to following canon.
So, there are two options here that Cryptic could take:
1) The T'varo is made weaker to be on-par with the B'rel, making it an equivalent choice, not a superior choice.
2) The B'rel and other Birds-of-Prey are given a balance pass to bring them up to par with the new bar that Romulan ships have set for Battle Cloaking ships.
If buffing the B'rel and other Birds-of-Prey would be viewed as making these ships "overpowered", then why are players ignoring ships that are simply superior in every way?
Just to illustrate the difference for those who do not wish to look at the Wiki:
The T'varo has 4,950 more hull points than the B'rel
The T'varo's shield modifier is 0.99, the B'rel's modifier is 0.88
The T'varo has 4 fore weapons and 3 aft, the B'rel has 4 fore and only 2 aft.
The T'varo has 150 crew, while the B'rel only has 30.
The T'varo has 4 tactical consoles, while the B'rel has 4 engineering consoles.
The B'rel's turn rate is 23, while the T'varo's turn rate is 18
The B'rel has +15 weapon power, while the T'varo has +10 weapon, +5 engine.
The T'varo has 1 Cmd Tac, 1 Ens Tac, 1 Lt Eng, 1 Lt Sci, 1 Lt. Cmd Universal
The B'rel has 1 Cmd Universal, 1 Lt. Cmd Universal, 2 Lt. Universal
Summary: The T'varo is superior to the B'rel in all areas except two. It does not have as high of a turn rate, and it has 40 less subsystem power. However, I do not believe that 40 additional subsystem power can compensate for all of the other advantages a T'varo brings to the table over the B'rel.
Post edited by sethketa on
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Comments
Will there be a nerf to the T'varo - no way - that's like going to TRIBBLE off 1/2 the new players of romulans.
Buff the B'rel - i doubt it.
Question is this: How many B'rels will be sold if it gets a buff? not more that 1000 I guarentee - as it is a tricky ship to fly and very specialized. not many KDF use it.
Keeping the T,Varo retrofit C-store and Fleet T'varo with a Huge advantage - how many will it sell - 10,000++++
So there is no economic advantage to buff the B'rel - but there is a huge economic gain to make people want to role a Romulan + all the new gear purchases + ship purchases + doff slots+ new gear+++ etc etc etc
That is why Romulan stuff will be superiour for some time.
This is big business and new money is all that matters to keep the game going, which we all want. Might not be fair but is 100% reality.
Does the T'varo have the ability to drop torps and mines while it's cloaked? Because the B'rel retrofit can (I'm assuming the Fl. version's the same in that regard as the Zen store one, I only have the Zen ship)
Yes the T'varo has the same EBC as B'rel
i agree, B'Rel has -1 BOFF power, that should be fixed. Add +1 ensign slot.
the minus hull == the + on turnrate. it is actually more worth. you can improve TR by RCS consoles, but you loose precious space.
consoles? most people use at least one universal console, so it is irrelevant. also some might like the 4 engi consoles
what is left? shield modifier and crew... i never ever was interested about the shields on my B'Rel, i don't even skill them with my KDF main, not ONE point, cause they are irrelevant in PVP, in this particular ship.
crew... i do not really have insight into how much this helps.. faster system restore? i find my B'Rel does not have a problem with that.
ONE BIG MINUS the T'Varo has: no universal cmdr slot, together with an universal lt.cmdr slot. which means i will NEVER be able to fly it as a true sci and launch these devastating GW3's
Bleed Green and Gold
All Warbirds have 10% less power across the board than Fed or KDF ships. Singularity cores, however, will increase the power to one system depending on how many Singularity charges there are.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I wasn't sure
Bleed Green and Gold
I like the T'varo where it is, I'm glad they got rid of the 5th tac console...but the BoP's could probably use a nice buff which I agree with.
It has a Romulan Enhanced Battle Cloak.
THIS. A thousand times THIS.
ALL universal slots is a massive advantage.
I miss the K'Vort. One of my favorite ships and pretty much the only one I flew in KA.
So I think the B'Real still has the edge over the Romulan ship.
I'm not discounting the fact that universal slots give the ship a hefty advantage. What I'm saying is that the T'varo fills the same role as the B'rel in a general sense; that being a ship that can fire torpedoes like cloaked. Many players on the forums have stated that the B'rel and other BOP ships are overpowered because of this, and Cryptic opts to release a ship with EBC that is specifically geared towards being more durable than the B'rel and more damage focused than the B'rel.
So, while the B'rel can fulfill any role, my main beef with the T'varo is that it is more durable. It was my understanding that the B'rel's hull points and shields were kept so low because of the EBC. But if the T'varo has EBC and has HP and Shields closer to normal escorts, then why is the B'rel so fragile?
Honestly, the only changes I'd like to see are BOPs made more durable to match the standard set by warbirds, and then consider giving them a third aft weapon slot. With Escort-leaning warbirds, Birds-of-Prey's only strength is their versatility, and in Star Trek: Escort's Online, versatility doesn't matter as much as pure damage.
As I recall, there was a forum post with players comparing what that subsystem power penalty actually translated to. In practice, you don't actually lose 40 power because of WC Potential. It is closer to ~23, I believe.
**headexplodes** (lulz)
Actually, it's 20% less across the board in base power. 160/200 = .8
And non singularity cores can also boost a single power level as well.
whine with lots of support reason is not a whine... it is called a legitimate question?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=708181