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WOW> Starfleet had it all rong..
puttenham
Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
yeah, so i just did my first stf with a romulan dderidex in group.. the rest of us were feds.. i know the person who was with us, he just turned 50, he has non of the rep perks, he has marginal equipment, and not only was that the smoothest run i have ever made in an stf (dps wise), but my meter showed him as the most dps.. (and im no slouch. playing my fed character that has everything, has been around since the opening of the game, and im usually top dps in most of the groups i run with..)
so yeah. i guess all this time i was watching voyager, and tng, starfleet had it all wrong.. no need to make a defient class, just send the op romulans in lol...
on a serious note, this is a serious problem in my eyes.. either, the nerf bat (and i never utter the words nerf, i dislike it, but in this case balance is needed)comes out, or cryptic elevates the klinks and the feds to the new romulan standard of dps.. (which i prefer the latter..)
i have been on these forums a long long time, and i never complain about balance ever, cause i never really felt a need to, i am an engineer who out dps's most tacs, so when i hear people whineing about how its a tacs game, i usually dont listen.. but these warbirds are putting out some very very impressive, very very high dps,
your thoughts, discuss..
and as a side note, three of my friends who are running roms, who were over 10k dps with their feds, are saying that it is unbalanced (but arnt complaining lol..) mainly because they are almost at that dps without having top gear, perks, and being maxed out with build and what not..
so yeah. i guess all this time i was watching voyager, and tng, starfleet had it all wrong.. no need to make a defient class, just send the op romulans in lol...
on a serious note, this is a serious problem in my eyes.. either, the nerf bat (and i never utter the words nerf, i dislike it, but in this case balance is needed)comes out, or cryptic elevates the klinks and the feds to the new romulan standard of dps.. (which i prefer the latter..)
i have been on these forums a long long time, and i never complain about balance ever, cause i never really felt a need to, i am an engineer who out dps's most tacs, so when i hear people whineing about how its a tacs game, i usually dont listen.. but these warbirds are putting out some very very impressive, very very high dps,
your thoughts, discuss..
and as a side note, three of my friends who are running roms, who were over 10k dps with their feds, are saying that it is unbalanced (but arnt complaining lol..) mainly because they are almost at that dps without having top gear, perks, and being maxed out with build and what not..
Post edited by puttenham on
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Edit: Day 3
since i dont really pvp, i guess its not a big deal, i was more making ajoke about it lol.. its not like the romulan faction resembles anything near what they are in the show.. infact, they are the polar opposite.. (which is why i refuse to run one, when i can take the way of the talshiar in the game, and be a real romulan i will lol, but not what this thread is about so..)
while being the power factor in the quadrant was how they were in the show, there is a problem with having them this way in the game.. sure, its cool to give them a better cloak, or some sort of small advantage, but a game needs balance.. elsewise, why would any one play anything but a rom..
im not crying, or calling out for imidiate action.. i understand that adversity breeds innovation, and that on paper alot of this probably made sense, but now you get it into game with infinate possabilities of breaking some new abilities, it takes time to iron out the wrinkles..
that being said, i was more joking cause i just thought it funny that both faction for the most part have set amount of dps, and a certain ability to generally do say an infected.. but all this time all we needed to be was romulan.. (i always wondered how well the romulans would have dealt with the borg, and now i have my answer i guess lol..)..
but on a serious note, i would expect a balance of some sort, not necessarily nerfing, but maybe raising the other two factions to be able to play on the same field.. i bet over the next few days, now that roms are hitting max level, we will see a bunch of outcry from the pvp community (that is if 90 percent of the community didnt switch to romulan already, as it seems to have been) lol..
I realize what you are saying. But a lot of what you are saying is generalizing. I am not saying you are wrong. But without more specifics. I cannot undertsand where you are coming from. I am not lvl 50. Nore am I in a hurry to get there on my Rom. I have 5 lvl 50 characters. My main tac with the Andrian escort for instance has a special attack. I forget what it is called. But it hits for up to 135000 critical hit points. In reference to the 10k dps. For what do you speak? Cannons, Torpedoes, Mines, beams. What?
We really need a breakdown for comparison. Do you mostly do Elite STFs or regular. Are you in the elite channel and most of the missions you do are there. Or are you pugging. Are you in a fleet running with only certain players. Etc. We need a blow by blow!!
Haven't reached that stage with mine yet because I tend to be a casual player with the story and lore being more important.
However, as a science captain I believe wholeheartedly that when it comes to the team based PVE stuff, it's very very important to have PVE balance, not in the sense of people having bragging rights but in the sense of the work involved. If this is actually true, then I have to say there is something wrong here.
This has been a tac game this whole time in the previous build of the game, and I could see that when I played my tacs on the older season prior to this launch. I have noticed that the lines between the escort/cruiser seem to blur on the klingon/romulan side of things (I play a klingon as well have for years and never ever have problems out DPSing my feds in every type of captain role there is)
so yeah, they've needed to look at the base numbers for some time now.
Also, there's a concern that there may be some kind of problem with the overall game code. I tried playing briefly on my fed sci and I kept hearing the power buildup sound I hear on my new Rom toon's ships.
Is that normal? Is that what's supposed to happen, did Klingon/Fed ships get this buildup to burst ability that the Romulan ships have? If not then why am I hearing it?
Ship+low end gear = not possible.
What magic power, console, buff, ship, weapon made this possible? Must have been that super secret Romulan mega happy OP power.
Nice try troll.
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Think he might be refering to the addition of the new plus to damage for particles and plus to damage to exotics (burns etc) combined with the new romulan only (as far as I can tell) ship power build abilities. (haven't played my fed enough to see if they enhanced the feds and klings with the new ship power build skills)
never mind the energy nerf to compensate for said abilities.
i think you mean, romulan ships don't suck, there is a difference in not being utterly worthless and being OP.
also klingon ships are fine, with the exception of the negh'var(why does one need so many engineer slots lol?), fed science ships and cruisers(with the exception of the regent, excelsior, odyssey and vesta) need some reworking(sci ships especially).
If you want to trade energy level for useless situational skill, be my guest.
OP probably met a good player, with a full MK XII purple items, and cry for nerf.
nah, i would never play romulans if you were a tal-shiar pet to hakeev, janik or sela. i rather enjoy the perverse humor i get when i encounter hakeev and he always appears so surprised then does some chest thumping before promptly high-tailing it
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
not a troll. upstanding member since the begining.. and im not complaining.. starting a discussion.. the nest time i am with someone, ie, maybe lee or something, i will post numbers.. and his exact build..
i personally think a large part of the problem stems from their rediculous power settings.. (power settings we have to scrounge for to get something like weapons over 135 (and sacrafice other aspects of a build for).. they get pretty easy.. (the singularity cores do give them rediculous power buffs).
also, they get a very impressive decloak first attack ability, which i noticed was the name of said players game..
im sure there are other aspects that also give warbirds something towards my claim, but i am admittantly not in the complete know of them..
that being said, an old fleetie in my chat channel posted his numbers the other day from his first non elite stf, and he was rocking almost 7k dps, as a level 45. that was the first alarm in my head.. then, i flew with (so im not butt hurt cause it wasnt like i was pvping against him or something) a level 50 dderidex.. i am a 7-9k build/ship what not (took time and lots of ec to get all my consoles, and what have you, granted i am an engineer and not a tac, and i am in a steamrunner). but i was second in dps in said match, which i was not expecting..
as far as the gear, maybe he was leading me on, however, i believed him, cause he had literally hit 50 that day.. i know its not impossible for someone to buy all the gear for it, but even so, he would have no space passives from the rep system, and i doubt he had all the best in slot peices.. that day, i pulled 8k, i was quite proud lol, cause i was only half paying attention, watching the rommie, and he pull over 9 and like i said, he died three times, so im guessing he doesnt have all his top notch set bonuses, and what have you..
haya, i would appreciate you not calling me a troll, first off its against forum policy, secondly, if you read my thread, and the response before you responded, you would actually see no hint of me trying to lead anyone on.. like i said before, im not upset, nor am i trying to elicite the type of reaction i got from you, i simply am calling it as i "saw" it, and wanted to generate some discussion, maybe get a rommie in here to help shed some light on what i whitnessed. and also, i thought everyone would get more of a chuckle out of my :why didnt the feds just send the roms in against the borg" comment..
thanks guys, lets try to keep it nice in here from now on... lol..
what does it matter, the point of my thread isnt to call for nerfs or what not, the point of my thread was to start a discussion, not to flame, or cry about how strong they are.. i could give two sh*ts about weather they are op, i dont pvp, and im not gonna cry if someone makes a pve experience smoother.. i was simply stating that at somepoint, something will have to be done (cause i wouldnt mind getting a bump in dps..)
for the record.. he was some sort of disrupter weapon, he was cannons, from what i saw, i think heavy. he was always staying on top of enemies (probably to be in range for his singularity ability). and i will garuntee it was at least a retrofit.. the only thing i know for sure, is that he didnt have crit consoles (ie, borg, or the other two from lobi and rom rep.) and he was claiming he only had mk10 green disrupter consoles.. and i will say, since he just turned 50, that he probably had at the most, a breen set, an aegis set, or a jem hadar set.. it would be impossible for him to have a borg, maco, or romulan set.. and i doubt he has gotten the dilithium and/or the fleet cred to get the fleet gear sets.. (but the latter is unknown, that can be either way)..
i couldnt tell you with an honest 100 percent confidence, im just reporting what i witnessed and was apart of.. im gonna grill some peeps i know who are creating romulans.. (two of which are high high dps players, and are only creating them cause they said romulans have the potential to have the highest dps (i dont know why, but they were stating this before the patch went live, and i was thinking to myself that i would reserve judgement and see for myself..
i like the comment that romulan ships dont suck.. i would agree... however, then we need to make fed and klink ships not suck too.. at some point.. id rather be able to log on regularly, and not have server lag, than worry about keeping a few pvpers from crying.. lol..
i do plan on having a leangthy sit down with my tac bud who is in a warbird.. im sure he can explain what im missing, cause i kinda feel the same as you, on paper, i knew they would have an edge, but not this big of an edge, and i dont honestly know whats causing it.. but i am interested, cause if its not just the ship, and its the way something works since the server went live, that can work for me, i want to know. lol...
I can not imagine a Romulan D'Diridex out dps'ing fed fleet ships that are maxed on gear.. I just can't. (no matter how good the players is.)
EDIT: BTW, if you are a long time upstanding member - how could you forget the golden rule of edit your posts, don't double or triple post :O )
another thing i was thinking, is the cores.. rommies who gotthe legacy pack, and have all their ships from it, also get top level cores in those ships if i remember correctly (im not trying to claim i do lol) where as i am searching for the doff mission to make a new warp core, i was lucky enouph to stumble across a mkxi green lol (better than what was on my ship before.. it could be that im being handicapped by that now.. and once i can get some that is up to par with the rommies, then it will even out.. i dont know.. im just guessing.. trying to generate discussion instead of accusing finger pointing..
and i was going more for a political satire cartoon type of post, like i said, i wasnt going for an op post, just trying to bring some levity to the forums, and incorperate the show into the game a little.. was going for the brighter side of the situation, not the negative.. i see i failed lol..
In all likeliness, if you see some newbie Romulan at 50, they're not someone just coming into the game. They'll know a thing or two, and probably applied lessons from their original Fed / KDF gaming.
No surprise.
Edit to add: It's the same thing when an experienced player rolls a brand new Fed / KDF toon. They're already good with the game to begin with, and will maximize everything they possibly can, squeezing every bit of ability from each BOFF and ship.
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See, I can make unsubstantiated claims without a shred of evidence too
Make your mind up.
lol, yeah, i meant a balance, i didnt choose my words right.. im all for balance, i dont like nerf, i agree with geko, id rather see everyone brought up to the same level as something, rather than somethng being brought down.. (cause usually it ruins the fun of said op thing) ...
so yeah, my bad on the wording.. i didnt mean a nerf was needed, i meant a balancing.. i am working with some rommies right now in ise, getting some data, and i will post.. and so far, the numbers arnt as big as last night (including my own) but, the rommies are all still on top..
Uhm you do understand that's the same thing right DPS is affected by the frequency of damage not by the burst thus it standing for damage per second.
So naturally DoTs when properly managed can up the DPS on every game out there.
So since Romulans have the natural predisposition to automatically preduce DoTs and enhance exotic damage, naturally their DPS will be higher. The problem is that the Romulan ships are more powerful by default because of their tendency to build up extra bonus power while fighting and turning that into a bonus DoT or some other such burst damage output.
I think they need to go back and give the federation ships and klingon ships something similar to use in fighting and give more weapon types a type of exotic damage bonus like the Romulan plasma weapons and this should offset the damage bonuses Romulans receive. It was the same trouble before they launched the expac but now it's more pronounced and more noticeable.
See every spec I looked up for my science ship all said the same thing, deck myself out in all Romulan Rep weapons because of the exotic damage bonuses. When they do that on any game, give one set of items the ability to do extra damage per tick, they make it more powerful then the rest and they make the rest of the weapons useless entirely.
wow, why is it when i post, i get all the ignorant people who read what they want to read in peoples statements..
did i not say that i would cultivate some tests today, did i not say that i wasnt trying to cry, or complain, merely making a joke really, and did i not ask for people to be nice in here, as it is not a troll trap..
jeeze, im so sick of posting on here cause i cant have the adult, friendly convos i wish to have.. this thread is turning into something i dont want it to turn into.. which is a bi*ch fest.. keep it on topic, and keep it clean.. and i cant even get one chuckle out of the base joke i laid down, which was the original idea behind this thread lol... (i have failed).
So, I'm ignorant because you posted unsubstantiated claims?
Not in the OP no.
So you're allowed to post a humorous thread but i'm not?, i'm a troll because you dont 'get' my humour, but i'm supposed to 'get' yours?
ok i got my rommie friend on, he and i pugged a team (which wasnt all that great) since most of our buds either arnt on, or were in the middle of other things..
he just turned 50 this morning. he has the ha'feh assault warbird (normal level 50, not the retrofit, or the fleet he is getting the fleet on sunday i guess). and he is a tac officer..
he is rocking green mkxi plasma dual heavy cannons all in front. (acc)
a polorized parabolic deflector mkx
a super cooled combate imp. eng. mkx
a blue dual injection singularity core, mk viii (sing a) (sing c)
a jem hadar resillient shields mkx
green plasma turretts mkxi in the rear
consoles are
mkx rcs
mkxii blue quality neutronium alloy
dual green sci field generators mk x
and he is loaded out with mkxi purple quality plasma infusers..
in this rather crappy attempt at ISE, he did 5,486.51 dmg.. i (cause i had to tank and heal thanks to the noobs in the pug part of the group lol) did 4979.11 dmg, the pugs did, 3432.91 / 3073.56 / and 2638.40...
now i am putting together one of our teams for later, that will better mimic last night with support, team buffing, and really getting the numbers out..
all of this was done with a parcel damage meter, he died once (so his numbers probably should have been higher) and the pugs kept dancing with the gateway, so they died a few times.. (this all effects the meter). since i was in tank/heal mode, i did not die, but this lowered my dps, if i had been all out dps, i would have out dpsed him on this run (if he died like he had to the cube) but even with my "tank spec and toon" who is built to build agro, he still kept steeling it from me.. (and mind you, while i wont claim to be the best tank, i am far from the worst).
now these numbers right here, are not as op as last nights, i am trying to recreat last night for yall, and they will be honest to goodness numbers, i do not fudge them at all and what not.. if im wrong, and i was tired and not reading it right, i would admit it.. i have apologized on these forums before for being wrong..
but like i said to lee, its crazy that he was able to pull such high numbers for someone who just hit 50.. keep in mind, he is in a run of the mill ship, no retrofit, or fleet varient.. he has no perks from his rep.. he has no fleet weapons, he has no fleet anything.. he is running for the most part, TRIBBLE gear.. he doesnt have all his purple quality doffs to put on active duty.. and i also play with him alot, and he wasnt playing up to his usually standard (probably cause it was a pug, and the pugs were kinda baddies). he posted numbers last night while he was at 45 where he was in a normal infected stf, and pulled well over what he posted thismorning..
ill have a better more rounded and controled test later today..
nah, i wasnt just refering to you, ive been getting lit up and its arguments i dont even want to be apart of .. lol, i got it, i chuckled, but at the same time, it will fuel the peeps who are trying to troll me lol.. i just happend to have used you as my example lol... were all friends here..
For some reason most feddies fly spacewhales that sacrifice tank for spank but ultimately fail at both.