I'm sorry but comparing lockboxes to REAL! gambling addiction where one could spend themselves into a poor house, breaks up families, has someone give up their children's college funds to play the machines, owes money to some very bad people to pay his gambling debts
Please you're full of it if you think it's the same you're (insert ban able rant and bad names here) if you think it's the same.
You can't go to some exchange and try to win the prize you're trying to get if you're playing the slots. Lockboxes are more Chuck E cheese, than it will ever be Las Vegas.
I've seen real Gambling addiction, and Lockboxes are NOTHING
WOOT!!! another lock box thread...I want a "Phaser Blast to the face" option so we can melt game Trolls that build up aggro at socializing hubs...:P
OHHH...and make it tradable so we can sell them for 10's of MILLIONS of ECs on the exchange.
That is the new item I would like added to the Lock Boxes...:)
"make it so"...:D
"Sips her PWE Koolaide and looks at alllll the goodies in the Z store"
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
I disagree. As said in my previous post, the fact is that the box guarantees at least four Lobi Crystals. You are, therefore buying keys to a box that rewards Lobi + added bonus item(s).
Whatever else is in the box, it is advertised as being guaranteed to contain a minimum of four lobi crystals.
if it wasn't a form of gambling you would be able to choose your reward. what you get is determined but statistical chance of getting reward x.
Stop saying pay to win. We need to banish that phrase from this game, it's so stupid in a predominantly PvE game.
What exactly are you winning? If I can go into an STF with a brand new fresh L50 toon. A fleet ship (6m ec) and equipment bought off the exchange (10m ec) and get 9k and out-dps bug ships then it's not pay to win.
There are ppl crying about how underpowered their ship is compared to others, aka Cstore or fleet ship versus a lockbox ship. Or how their ship is not 'competitive' versus another player using a better variant.
Call me nuts but I'm as surprised as you as seeeing that 99% of the people in this game DONT COMPETE with each other (aka PvP)
And yet i keep hearing it. You can do level 50 missions in a shuttle and still win, you can do Elite STF's 1 or 2 manned. Totally nuts. The AI in this game is so terrible that its just raw dmg versus massive hull hitpoints and some instapops and invisibly HYT3's of 100/200+K nobody can prevent.
Podcasts are talking about Ship pets and how powerful or not powerful they are, dude. How significant is that based on the fact that they discuss this for PVE.
This game is totally RP focussed, you can even PvP with a tier 2/3 ship and **** a full 5 man pug team.
If you look at the pure facts, that 99% of the people only shoot at senseless NPC's with senseless Intelligence and don't do anything more complex/dynamic then PvP I totally agree with you that Pay2win has no meaning at all.
Go to Vegas and ask them if they will exchange monopoly money for Prize X, and see how fast they throw you out.
not gambling
if the keys didn't cost real money at no point what so ever. then you actually would have a point. however you don't. if I went to vegas. I would buy chips with real money. in this case you buy keys with real money. still gambling just different ways of doing it.
The lockbox rewards are pretty generous, in general.
I'd go as far as to say that they average out to contain items that, if consistently sold on the exchange, are worth about 300-500k ec per box.
in other words, the contents of each box gets you somewhere between 1/5 and 1/3 of the way to buying a key.
Clearly, this is no way to make a living - you're turning $1.25 into $0.25-$0.42
That said, I would be surprised if any other MMO, and SHOCKED if any game in Vegas, gave you a better return than that.
I've had some really good luck with lockboxen myself, and individual results will, I'm sure, vary. But I am...puzzled, to say the least, at all the hate they seem to generate. Cryptic has really gone to considerable lengths to make the lock box system something worthwhile for players to participate in, and to ensure nobody HAS to participate if they don't want to.
if the keys didn't cost real money at no point what so ever. then you actually would have a point. however you don't. if I went to vegas. I would buy chips with real money. in this case you buy keys with real money. still gambling just different ways of doing it.
So then the Random Number Generator is gambling?
RNG is used to possibly, maybe provide you some loot as a reward for downing an NPC in the game.
if the keys didn't cost real money at no point what so ever. then you actually would have a point. however you don't. if I went to vegas. I would buy chips with real money. in this case you buy keys with real money. still gambling just different ways of doing it.
Key cost ZEN, you can either pay REAL money, or grind and use DIl fake money..... Now if you can go to a Casino and grind chips, to play the slots, then yeah it would be the same.
Key cost ZEN, you can either pay REAL money, or grind and use DIl fake money..... Now if you can go to a Casino and grind chips, to play the slots, then yeah it would be the same.
This "grinding" would take you over a month to get one key and open one lock box which will have TRIBBLE in it, oh and 4 lobi crystals.
Lock boxes are pure money grabbers plain and simple.
Key cost ZEN, you can either pay REAL money, or grind and use DIl fake money..... Now if you can go to a Casino and grind chips, to play the slots, then yeah it would be the same.
the point is it is a gamble like it or not and I just would like cryptic and pwe to help point people in the direction of help if needed. why would you be against that? if it actually helps some one in the long run??
the point is it is a gamble like it or not and I just would like cryptic and pwe to help point people in the direction of help if needed. why would you be against that? if it actually helps some one in the long run??
Nope they need to make the ability to earn keys in game. PLain and simple. IN like Elite STF's, or hard missions. Whatever. Or Limit one key per day for a daily.
It's ridiculous. I can't believe people have been standing for this lockbox TRIBBLE for this long. I was appauled by this when I came back to the game, almost made me quit AGAIN.
I bought a bunch of lockbox keys with my monthly stipend not that long ago. I wanted to get... a skirt for my KDF joined Trill. In other words, I just wanted the lobi crystals. I wasn't expecting to be able to use anything else I got. As it turns out, I did get a few nice items, including a good ship that my KDF Klingon captain is now using.
I wouldn't buy lockbox keys with the hopes of getting anything except lobi crystals, and that's only if I have nothing else I want to buy with my monthly stipend for a long time.
I don't mind other people spending gobs of money to try for luck with the lockboxes. It helps pay for the game. Personally, I wouldn't spend my own money on gambling like that.
Thanks to ppl not willing to pay for a sub for games is the reason companies are forced to go to a pay2win model. If you have any problems with gambling and lockboxes blame the players.
mt I have to point out the fact, that games don't go f2p because they're struggling as sub games. They go f2p because they make a hell of a lot more money being free to play than pay to play.
sorry, but its true.
the point is it is a gamble like it or not and I just would like cryptic and pwe to help point people in the direction of help if needed. why would you be against that? if it actually helps some one in the long run??
I'll help point people in the direction of help if needed...push that little glowing button on the front tower or on top of the laptop and shut the damn thing off.
the point is it is a gamble like it or not and I just would like cryptic and pwe to help point people in the direction of help if needed. why would you be against that? if it actually helps some one in the long run??
Because I've seen REAL gambling addiction and this lockbox is not it. I've seen my father spend himself to debt, thousands of dollars, not a few hundred that people spend on lockboxes.... if someone spend 900 bucks on loxboxes they have more than enough to sell on the exchange and buy the ship they want, real gambling you don't have the luxury .
Because I've seen REAL gambling addiction and this lockbox is not it. I've seen my father spend himself to debt, thousands of dollars, not a few hundred that people spend on lockboxes.... if someone spend 900 bucks on loxboxes they have more than enough to sell on the exchange and buy the ship they want, real gambling you don't have the luxury .
Oh, but can they still get that 900 bucks back? Show me where that 900 bucks is given back if you over spent and needed it for rent.
Like any casino, once they have your money, that's it.....
Because I've seen REAL gambling addiction and this lockbox is not it. I've seen my father spend himself to debt, thousands of dollars, not a few hundred that people spend on lockboxes.... if someone spend 900 bucks on loxboxes they have more than enough to sell on the exchange and buy the ship they want, real gambling you don't have the luxury .
the point your making, a gambler will constantly open boxes till they get the ship themselves. they want the buzz, the kick. they wont just buy it from the exchange. i'm sorry to hear you've seen how bad gambling can get. but you really shouldn't be so blind to how the smallest form of gambling, even in a computer game can be the start of a gambling addiction. so calling lockbox gambling nothing when you look at grand picture of gambling problems is rather closed minded. it can start any where, casinos, doing the lotto, slot machines, the fruity in the pub, the list is endless. any form of gambling can cause big problems to some people sadly.
Roulette: 36/38 on straight numbers so a house edge of around 5% ($0.95 return on a $1 bet)
Blackjack: 0.5% house edge when playing statistically correct ($0.995 return on a $1 bet)
Slot machines: Average in a vegas casino is around 92-95% ($0.95 return on a $1 bet)
The house edge in vegas is TINY, but they have such a massive volume they make incredibly amounts of money anyway.
It's all about the volume.
lol, I saw this one coming.
Nobody to blame but myself. as soon as I hit "post," I started thinking I was reaching with my Vegas reference.
The bulk of what I said stands, though: It would be downright *stupid* if Cryptic made lockboxes an EVEN trade for the money put into them, as that wouldn't earn them revenue in the long run. But they have made the rewards a pretty reasonable balance of risk vs. reward; so reasonable in fact that I suspect they're easily on par with any other MMO's equivalent.
ok here it goes
Pick out the one that is gambling (and no only one is gambling)
1. you pay money and then you get a cash reward on a random chance, or nothing at all.
2. you pay money to blindly take a item from a bag. all the items in the bag are spelled out and there is no way to loose. you always get something that has a cash value = or grater then what you put in. ((cash value does not = your value))
If there's no trophy or monetary reward for competitive PvP, what do you "pay to win"?
And the $64,000 question - what ignorant fool ever PAYS TO LOSE?
Dont you get an increased dilithium reward if your team wins pvp? but regardless of that, the 'pay to win' I am referring to is mostly ego centric, in that you can get the best ship, weapons, consoles (packs) and outfit them far more quickly than the average player if you pay.
No one Wins at a casino in the long run except the owners the phrase "the house always wins" is mathmatically true.
Most casinos are only SLIGHTLY bent
however many are indeed out and out crooked (most of Las vegas in the 1970's)
Lock boxes have no connection to the casino
they are closer to scratch cards
However I firmly believe that Gold and Lifer players should have an option to toggle the damn things OFF so we never ever see one.
Also I think that "lobi packs" should be available in the c store at a comparable price
See i have opened lock boxes but only when I really needed those dual purpose consumables.
And basically they are rarely worth it
Selling the items for a simple straight price would bring in just as much money and going back to pay to play would bring in a LOT more.
Especially if it came with a promise to clean up ESD
Comments
Please you're full of it if you think it's the same you're (insert ban able rant and bad names here) if you think it's the same.
You can't go to some exchange and try to win the prize you're trying to get if you're playing the slots. Lockboxes are more Chuck E cheese, than it will ever be Las Vegas.
I've seen real Gambling addiction, and Lockboxes are NOTHING
OHHH...and make it tradable so we can sell them for 10's of MILLIONS of ECs on the exchange.
That is the new item I would like added to the Lock Boxes...:)
"make it so"...:D
Badname Betty (PvP...PvE...STF...Trophy Hunter...Latnium Collector...Federation)
Commander Morgana (PvP...PvE...STF...KDF)
1000 day vet and LTS
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] STO Join date: 7 Feb 2010
if it wasn't a form of gambling you would be able to choose your reward. what you get is determined but statistical chance of getting reward x.
it's gambling.
Go to Vegas and ask them if they will exchange monopoly money for Prize X, and see how fast they throw you out.
not gambling
There are ppl crying about how underpowered their ship is compared to others, aka Cstore or fleet ship versus a lockbox ship. Or how their ship is not 'competitive' versus another player using a better variant.
Call me nuts but I'm as surprised as you as seeeing that 99% of the people in this game DONT COMPETE with each other (aka PvP)
And yet i keep hearing it. You can do level 50 missions in a shuttle and still win, you can do Elite STF's 1 or 2 manned. Totally nuts. The AI in this game is so terrible that its just raw dmg versus massive hull hitpoints and some instapops and invisibly HYT3's of 100/200+K nobody can prevent.
Podcasts are talking about Ship pets and how powerful or not powerful they are, dude. How significant is that based on the fact that they discuss this for PVE.
This game is totally RP focussed, you can even PvP with a tier 2/3 ship and **** a full 5 man pug team.
If you look at the pure facts, that 99% of the people only shoot at senseless NPC's with senseless Intelligence and don't do anything more complex/dynamic then PvP I totally agree with you that Pay2win has no meaning at all.
If the lockboxes were not any form of gambling, then let the devs remove all the items you could win, and only have lobi in them.
not coming in on either side of the debate but you may want to read what he said then what you said and re-evaluate.
if the keys didn't cost real money at no point what so ever. then you actually would have a point. however you don't. if I went to vegas. I would buy chips with real money. in this case you buy keys with real money. still gambling just different ways of doing it.
I'd go as far as to say that they average out to contain items that, if consistently sold on the exchange, are worth about 300-500k ec per box.
in other words, the contents of each box gets you somewhere between 1/5 and 1/3 of the way to buying a key.
Clearly, this is no way to make a living - you're turning $1.25 into $0.25-$0.42
That said, I would be surprised if any other MMO, and SHOCKED if any game in Vegas, gave you a better return than that.
I've had some really good luck with lockboxen myself, and individual results will, I'm sure, vary. But I am...puzzled, to say the least, at all the hate they seem to generate. Cryptic has really gone to considerable lengths to make the lock box system something worthwhile for players to participate in, and to ensure nobody HAS to participate if they don't want to.
So then the Random Number Generator is gambling?
RNG is used to possibly, maybe provide you some loot as a reward for downing an NPC in the game.
Presto, chango, we are ALL gamblers now.
Key cost ZEN, you can either pay REAL money, or grind and use DIl fake money..... Now if you can go to a Casino and grind chips, to play the slots, then yeah it would be the same.
This "grinding" would take you over a month to get one key and open one lock box which will have TRIBBLE in it, oh and 4 lobi crystals.
Lock boxes are pure money grabbers plain and simple.
the point is it is a gamble like it or not and I just would like cryptic and pwe to help point people in the direction of help if needed. why would you be against that? if it actually helps some one in the long run??
Nope they need to make the ability to earn keys in game. PLain and simple. IN like Elite STF's, or hard missions. Whatever. Or Limit one key per day for a daily.
It's ridiculous. I can't believe people have been standing for this lockbox TRIBBLE for this long. I was appauled by this when I came back to the game, almost made me quit AGAIN.
Prepare to be shocked:
Roulette: 36/38 on straight numbers so a house edge of around 5% ($0.95 return on a $1 bet)
Blackjack: 0.5% house edge when playing statistically correct ($0.995 return on a $1 bet)
Slot machines: Average in a vegas casino is around 92-95% ($0.95 return on a $1 bet)
The house edge in vegas is TINY, but they have such a massive volume they make incredibly amounts of money anyway.
It's all about the volume.
Kirk's Protege.
I wouldn't buy lockbox keys with the hopes of getting anything except lobi crystals, and that's only if I have nothing else I want to buy with my monthly stipend for a long time.
I don't mind other people spending gobs of money to try for luck with the lockboxes. It helps pay for the game. Personally, I wouldn't spend my own money on gambling like that.
True but most Casino's offer some rather nice complimentary services for "patrons". there is some correlation.
And I'd take the lock box money grab over everyone I've seen in any other F2P game out there.
Lockbox stuff is still only "nice to have", rather than "needed to play the game or stay competative".
mt I have to point out the fact, that games don't go f2p because they're struggling as sub games. They go f2p because they make a hell of a lot more money being free to play than pay to play.
sorry, but its true.
I'll help point people in the direction of help if needed...push that little glowing button on the front tower or on top of the laptop and shut the damn thing off.
Because I've seen REAL gambling addiction and this lockbox is not it. I've seen my father spend himself to debt, thousands of dollars, not a few hundred that people spend on lockboxes.... if someone spend 900 bucks on loxboxes they have more than enough to sell on the exchange and buy the ship they want, real gambling you don't have the luxury .
Oh, but can they still get that 900 bucks back? Show me where that 900 bucks is given back if you over spent and needed it for rent.
Like any casino, once they have your money, that's it.....
the point your making, a gambler will constantly open boxes till they get the ship themselves. they want the buzz, the kick. they wont just buy it from the exchange. i'm sorry to hear you've seen how bad gambling can get. but you really shouldn't be so blind to how the smallest form of gambling, even in a computer game can be the start of a gambling addiction. so calling lockbox gambling nothing when you look at grand picture of gambling problems is rather closed minded. it can start any where, casinos, doing the lotto, slot machines, the fruity in the pub, the list is endless. any form of gambling can cause big problems to some people sadly.
lol, I saw this one coming.
Nobody to blame but myself. as soon as I hit "post," I started thinking I was reaching with my Vegas reference.
The bulk of what I said stands, though: It would be downright *stupid* if Cryptic made lockboxes an EVEN trade for the money put into them, as that wouldn't earn them revenue in the long run. But they have made the rewards a pretty reasonable balance of risk vs. reward; so reasonable in fact that I suspect they're easily on par with any other MMO's equivalent.
STO became pay to win as soon as it went free to play.
Not really much to discuss.
If there's no trophy or monetary reward for competitive PvP, what do you "pay to win"?
And the $64,000 question - what ignorant fool ever PAYS TO LOSE?
Pick out the one that is gambling (and no only one is gambling)
1. you pay money and then you get a cash reward on a random chance, or nothing at all.
2. you pay money to blindly take a item from a bag. all the items in the bag are spelled out and there is no way to loose. you always get something that has a cash value = or grater then what you put in. ((cash value does not = your value))
Dont you get an increased dilithium reward if your team wins pvp? but regardless of that, the 'pay to win' I am referring to is mostly ego centric, in that you can get the best ship, weapons, consoles (packs) and outfit them far more quickly than the average player if you pay.
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
No one Wins at a casino in the long run except the owners the phrase "the house always wins" is mathmatically true.
Most casinos are only SLIGHTLY bent
however many are indeed out and out crooked (most of Las vegas in the 1970's)
Lock boxes have no connection to the casino
they are closer to scratch cards
However I firmly believe that Gold and Lifer players should have an option to toggle the damn things OFF so we never ever see one.
Also I think that "lobi packs" should be available in the c store at a comparable price
See i have opened lock boxes but only when I really needed those dual purpose consumables.
And basically they are rarely worth it
Selling the items for a simple straight price would bring in just as much money and going back to pay to play would bring in a LOT more.
Especially if it came with a promise to clean up ESD