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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Something about VOY bugs me

elandarkskyelandarksky Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
edited May 2013 in Ten Forward
(hides list and jumps to last point)
(spoilers possibly for those who havent seen Voyager)

Endgame:
future janeway steals a shuttle, steals kdf time travel tech, then goes into the past to change history, cut the journey of Voyager and save x amount of lives/years.

Now here is the thing that bugs me..

What about the temporal prime directive (or whatever directive covers it) that clearly states 'no time travelling even if it benefits you'

Shouldnt there be an aeon timeship pop out behind admiral janeways shuttle and vaporize her at the start of this episode? XD
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Post edited by elandarksky on

Comments

  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I would assume the Temporal Cops started popping up at around the end of the TNG era. That's the point where time travel seems to be becoming a thing. Janeway's changing of the future was probably around the last straw - or maybe a Klingon inventing a simpler time travel device was the last straw before someone decided things need to be monitored from this point onward. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    And in those extra years, how much more could Janeway have messed up the timestream? I think at some point, the future just gave up on policing Janeway.

    That, or the version of the events that took place because of Endgame were the proper version, and Future-Starfleet just let Janeway do her thing to protect it.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    edited May 2013
    It's a running joke amongst my friends that Janeway is the "Arch Time Criminal"

    Probably due to all the messing with time she did, all those Time Cops from the future ended up never existing.
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  • nyniknynik Member Posts: 1,628 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    It's a running joke amongst my friends that Janeway is the "Arch Time Criminal"

    Probably due to all the messing with time she did, all those Time Cops from the future ended up never existing.

    Pretty much this. Nobody wants to take her one and end up as the next Captain Braxton (in that erased timeline).
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    elandarksky wrote: »
    (hides list and jumps to last point)
    (spoilers possibly for those who havent seen Voyager)

    Endgame:
    future janeway steals a shuttle, steals kdf time travel tech, then goes into the past to change history, cut the journey of Voyager and save x amount of lives/years.

    Now here is the thing that bugs me..

    What about the temporal prime directive (or whatever directive covers it) that clearly states 'no time travelling even if it benefits you'

    Shouldnt there be an aeon timeship pop out behind admiral janeways shuttle and vaporize her at the start of this episode? XD

    The thing about time agents is that they can go back to any time they want, what you would consider a 1 way trip is actually not possible for these people, they could prevent the 1 way trip if it suited them because they can. The linear nature of time has no meaning for them, but they vigilantly do what they can to stop other rival factions from altering history and if necessary to correct previous anomalies from happening.

    Had the temporal time commission did their job however, the events of the future Janeway should never of happened in which case it would of taken another decade + to reach home, the Borg would or remained a powerful destructive force.

    the plothole however couldnt be covered up because the silly people who did the last episodes clearly didnt think of the ending too much so decided that it would be better off to cut the thing in half and decided to over look the timeship and its mission.
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  • voyagerfan9751voyagerfan9751 Member Posts: 1,120 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The simple solution is that Admiral Janeway had the very rare Plot Device Console [Sleath x4] on her ship, which made her completely undetectable by the temporal authorities
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Why do you think poor old Sam Beckett quantum leaped into Captain archer and couldn't leave??

    the timeline was screwed by then
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  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Time cops didn't go around undoing every little thing; it took a disaster that destroyed Earth to send Braxton scurrying back to fix stuff in their first encounter. Voyager getting home early presumably just didn't cause any changes that they felt mattered all that much.
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  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Or the timeline was messed up and they allowed it to go back to its original form.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mix it up a little, as stated, time agents can go back to any point, but if a time terrorist goes back in time to plant a bomb, is caught then goes further back in time, plants a bug then goes forwards in time to place the bomb and the agents catch him there, send him back to his own timeline, the bug transports the man back to that timeline and the time agents lost him. the agents could go back to just before he planted the bomb in the first place and kill him on the spot, however other agents would have another interest and come out seconds before that terrorists death and these time agents die, then more time agents can come along and do the same to these meddlers...

    time travel, hah! overrated.
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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Voyager really played fast and loose with that TPD. There's Janeway coming back from the future in 'Endgame' (bringing all kinds of technology to upgrade the ship that they didn't have), Kim and Chakotay had that one episode where Quantum Slipstream technology caused Voyager to crash and fifteen years later they altered time to prevent it - no Temporal Investigations Division, Temporal Intergrity Commission or whatnot there, either. Then there was "Non Sequitar" with Kim ending up in that other world where he was never on Voyager. The incident with the wormhole that led to the Romulan Empire about thirty years in the past where they communicated with a Romulan scientist and left messages for him to relay to the Federation at the proper time... And let's not forget the infamous 'Year of Hell'...

    Think of time like a road - as long as the car stays in its own lane, no problem, so it swerves a little when someone messes with things... now if it starts crossing the lines, the cops stop it. Same thing here, I think, as long as the timeline stays within certain overall bounderies, it's frowned upon, officially illegal, but nothing's actually done to stop it. Once it starts to become a problem, however, then the 'Time 'Fleeters' step in.
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  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Give me five minutes on that time wormhole to the Romulan and I will save the universe
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  • grylakgrylak Member Posts: 1,594 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    After the Braxton/Relativity fiasco, they probably just declared Janeway off limits to all policing, to avoid another one of their best officers going bat**** crazy and trying to blow up the entire space time continuum. And to be fair, with the Future's End appearance, that was the destruction of Earth. Endgame didn't harm the Federation, but it did harm the Borg, so the time cops probably turned a blind eye to it 'for the greater good'. Alot like the way Vik Mackey works in The Shield.



    What irks me the most about Admiral Janeway's actions is what made her select that specific point in time to do it. Ok, there was the Borg transwarp hub, but what about all those crewmembers she lost before then? Why didn't she try to save those guys? What about the stuff she does in the next 10 years? We don't know what else they may have done. How many more Seven's/Neelix's would they pick up, saving them from a horrific life and giving them a chance for something better? Why didn't Admiral Janeway go back to Caretaker and use her future tech to defend the Caretaker array and send Voyager home, then blow it up herself? And yes, she wanted to save Seven, so why not then time jump to Scorpion and use her abilities there to stop 8472 (I refuse to call them Undine outside the context of this game) and rescue Seven, helping her regain her humanity? Why couldn't she go back a few more weeks and save Carrey? He never got to finish his model dammit!
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  • silverashes1silverashes1 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    they dont stop all temporal incursions just the ones from thier time if the temproal incurson was supposed to happen(like starlings computer company,kirk geting the whales or first contact to name a few) if they did then the federation would never have been formed in the first place
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  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    elandarksky wrote: »
    Shouldnt there be an aeon timeship pop out behind admiral janeways shuttle and vaporize her at the start of this episode? XD

    From the perspective of the time cops of the 30th century, Janeway was always meant to go back in time and give the Federation Borg-killer tech. Same as Kirk going back to 1968 to hang out with Gary 7 or Quark going to Roswell.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    silverashes1 wrote: »
    they dont stop all temporal incursions just the ones from thier time if the temproal incurson was supposed to happen(like starlings computer company,kirk geting the whales or first contact to name a few) if they did then the federation would never have been formed in the first place

    but who is state that these events were supposed to happen or not? one way or the other they did. however it could still be changed as nothing is set with time agents.
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  • vitzhvitzh Member Posts: 519
    edited May 2013
    I looked at this thread expecting a massive list about voyager, was surprised how short the post was.
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  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Voyager gained some invaluable technology in their journey home to help against the Borg. There we also people they helped along the way, and someone stated about taking the advanced tech and going all the way back to the caretaker to defend the station. If Voyager did that then Seven and the other liberated Borg would still be part of the Collective, the never would have helped the Borg that were separated from the collective while they regenerated. Yes there were people lost along the way that she could have gone back to save, But even Janeway knew not to mess with time too much. She didn't undo any of the good that they did, she got most of her crew home safe, and crippled the Borg for a while by destroying the Transwarp hub. She did more good than damage so that's probably why they left her alone. Also an evaluation of the changes she made to the timeline probably indicated that her actions didn't effect the timeline enough to bother interfering.

    Or no one gave a **** enough to address this when writing the episode because they knew Voyager was never popular enough to spark a string of movies.
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  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited May 2013
    I always believed those two time bureaucrats that grilled Sisko over the Trials and Tribblations incident called the wrong captain (Kirk) "a menace". They'd consider Kirk a lightweight if they knew what was going on in the Delta Quadrant.
  • silverashes1silverashes1 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mirrorchaos wrote: »
    but who is state that these events were supposed to happen or not? one way or the other they did. however it could still be changed as nothing is set with time agents.

    i think they are supposed to stop only the ones from thier own time as there were many time travelers in TNG and TOS and they weren't stopped only the ones from 28th century and after were. they cant stop all of them since a few were essential in forming the federation and the temproral security services seen in VOY and ENT.
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Sometimes criminals get away with it.
  • f9thaceshighf9thaceshigh Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The Department of Temporal Investigations novels mentioned this. The future TIC and Time Agents deal mainly with people from around their own time, hence why they didn't intervene directly. Furthermore, Agent Lucsly was going to throw the book at Janeway, but agents from the future insisted that he let her go because her actions would be instrumental in the eventual destruction of the Borg in the Destiny books.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    elandarksky wrote: »

    Endgame:
    future janeway steals a shuttle, steals kdf time travel tech, then goes into the past to change history, cut the journey of Voyager and save x amount of lives/years.

    Now here is the thing that bugs me..

    What about the temporal prime directive (or whatever directive covers it) that clearly states 'no time travelling even if it benefits you'

    Shouldnt there be an aeon timeship pop out behind admiral janeways shuttle and vaporize her at the start of this episode? XD

    Janeway bugs me so much, that I can't watch Voyager, and don't care about any of the other things that would bug me if I could stand to watch a whole episode.
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  • nephtnepht Member Posts: 5,826 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Janeway is quite possibly the only woman in the universe Kirk wouldnt hit on.

    On a whole the worst Trek captain ever.
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  • lostcause212lostcause212 Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There's a reason most people think she got promoted and stuck behind a desk come Nemesis in order to keep her from ever commanding a starship again.
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  • hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This always amused me about Voyager.
  • kain9primekain9prime Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    elandarksky wrote: »
    Shouldnt there be an aeon timeship pop out behind admiral janeways shuttle and vaporize her at the start of this episode? XD
    If only that were true...

    :(
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  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Actualy I believe they explained some of thin is an enterprise episode.

    In a nut shell,

    Think of every incursion like a rock thrown into a pond.

    Where the rock hits the water there is a large disturbance with ripples flowing out from the center and disipating the further out they go.

    Depending on the size of the rock you can get varrying sizes of disturbance but generaly it takes quite a big one to affect the pond as a whole.

    Now from the perspective of a person tasked with keeping the surface glassy smoothe, you must prevent any rocks from hitting the water, but you can't be everywhere at once and unless you see the person throwing the rock the only evidence is the ripple in the water.

    So maybe some rocks are so small the ripples don't affect the surface enough for you to notice and some are so big its hard not to.
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