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How About Heavy Mont Beam Arrays only for Cruisers?
errab
Member Posts: 1,434 Arc User
Greetings All,
With all the talk of giving Cruisers something that makes them stand out when compared to other classes I was thinking that instead of giving them better Armor how about we give them stronger weapons?
With the above in mind, I'd like to see a Heavy Mount Beam Array that can only be used on Cruiser Class Vessels.
Heavy Mount Beam Arrays should have 30-40% better overall damage than our standard beam arrays but consume more power (10) and have a have a smaller firing Arc (210)
Maybe a new Heavy Mount Weapon class could be made that could only be used by Cruisers and Dreadnoughts.
The whole Heavy Mount concept could be used to make Cruisers and Dreadnoughts stand out when compared to other vessels.
Thanks for your Time!
With all the talk of giving Cruisers something that makes them stand out when compared to other classes I was thinking that instead of giving them better Armor how about we give them stronger weapons?
With the above in mind, I'd like to see a Heavy Mount Beam Array that can only be used on Cruiser Class Vessels.
Heavy Mount Beam Arrays should have 30-40% better overall damage than our standard beam arrays but consume more power (10) and have a have a smaller firing Arc (210)
Maybe a new Heavy Mount Weapon class could be made that could only be used by Cruisers and Dreadnoughts.
The whole Heavy Mount concept could be used to make Cruisers and Dreadnoughts stand out when compared to other vessels.
Thanks for your Time!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by errab on
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Comments
STFs and PvP should include no-die bonuses: the longer you go without dying the better the chance of getting a good drop or more XP.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Would feel better than the current "Hey look, i found a pocket flashlight" feeling with arrays now.
The way Tac Team currently works should be an Engineering ability to buff tanking rather than a Tac ability - as it doesn't buff DPS, IMO.
You've hit upon the crux of the issue right here, and it's a problem that's pervasive in all of Cryptic's games - they design their games to reward high DPS, and nothing else. If there were a 'damage taken', 'damage healed', 'enemies confused/placated/held' section in how their games score competitive content, or a reason to go for anything other than flat-out speed in cooperative content, I think that we'd see more variety than just Escorts and other ships set up to do maximum DPS.
As it stands, though, you're just going to see DPS ships, because that's the style of gameplay that gets rewarded.
In regard to the OP: all well and good, but how do you propose to lend Science ships a helping hand? Or are they to languish in last place, as Cruisers and Escorts both get special weapon types to boost their damage out?
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
DHC 5 km
Dc 5km
Cannons5 km
Turrets 10km
Beam arrays on escorts 10km
Beam arrays/ beam banks on cruisers 20km
Love it...
"Hard about, 180 degrees. All flashlights fire."
"Yes, sir! Attempting to blind enemy now."
Not terribly useful, as the existing damage dropoff for weapons means that you want to be inside 5 km for pretty much everything already.
It might help (in PvE only) if they made the damage dropoff penalty for cannons a lot more severe than it currently is, but even that is a situational bonus for Cruiser and Science ships.
In reality, the game design is what needs to change, not the ships or the weapons. If tanks and healers/debuffers had any relevance or access to rewards, you'd see them more. As it stands, both are regarded as generally pointless - Escorts can do so much damage that they can kill before being killed in PvE, kill before debuffs/control would be relevant in PvE, and are nimble enough to drop their fire and get out in PvP. The pure damage-focus of the game is what needs to change, and I think that the devs might just realize it, since they at least tried to incorporate points for things other than damage on the CE scoreboards.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
They are unnecessary. If you want to do decent DPS I suggest using an Aux2B build with the Rom rep beams and the Rom rep set.
while the galaxy cruisers main aim is command and control, buff and debuff of all allies including the healing which would draw the highest threat next to escorts and destroy ships when possible but have decent enough dps to do such a thing in the middle of the battlefield.
while science ships do their magic with control effects on mobs and generally making a nuisance while only having limited abilities for healing, their main purpose is supporting the escorts and defending the engineering cruiser from retaliation by controlling the battlefield.
the current sto targeting system is worse beyond awful for quick targeting allies while finding you target you were attacking, i think it should be changed. butbasically though to make everyone rely on each other in an elite scenario instead of the usual chaotic "teamwork" or there a lack of.
Tactical is pure DPS, nothing more. (no heals or buffs beyond offensive only and requires the engineer or science ship that can heal and debuff enemy buffs and must be in range of the engineer at all times to survive prolonged attacks, it works best with science ships due to passive buff.)
Engineering is the primary healer and tank. (highest threat taker and best healer/tank, so primary to survival but requires DPS for prolonged fights. additionally engineering ships gain a base passive threat generation and an active AOE threat generation ability with a cooldown so tacticals dont get an easy ride all the way.)
Science is DPS support and secondary healer. (Primary support for the escorts and can create trouble for the enemy mobs by creating minor singularities and such while applying passive targeting buff to tactical captains, which increases their damage, accuracy and resistances within range in order to keep science ships close to tactical captains. but science ships also need to keep in range of the engineer ship to keep threat away and keep heals going.)
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
problem is i dont have access to that build, anything else that i can reach outside a fleet and isnt way over the top expensive?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Funny you should say that, both the Romulan Reputation Beams as well as the Romulan Reputation set are from your Personal rep with the Romulan faction. And even without that you can still slot 2x copies of Aux2Batt with 3 tech dofs and be effective.
Not talking "drop off" im talking Zero damage beyond 5km
with a cruiser (with its much bigger power system) doing full damage at 20km
Still a situational boost to Cruisers and Sci, at best. Escorts already want to be at 2 km or less to be dealing maximum damage, and beam damage at any range is pathetic compared to cannon damage. In order to fix the disparity, there needs to be a design change that places value on high survivability and/or healing and control, spreading the value out, rather than placing all of the value on DPS.
You're approaching this as an issue where all ships need to be doing similar damage, which simply isn't the case. This is an issue where the game currently values damage over any other contribution to a group effort and, as many other successful MMOs point out, that isn't a necessary way to value contributions. If, say, every point of damage taken were worth 2/3 of each point of damage dealt, every point of damage dealt to a placated/held/disabled target granted 2 points to the person who debuffed the target, and every point of healing were worth 2 points, you'd see a lot more value in non-DPS ships (numbers are examples, not actual suggestions). It still wouldn't help STFs much, since speeding through is the only answer there, but better AI or mechanics for STFs is all that would be necessary to cause other ships to have relevance again.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
An Escort would always he t1-t3 and commanded by someone at the rank of commander at most
Science and Cruisers would go up to t5 (captain) and Admirals would have no ships available only to them
also escorts would ALWAYS be under the command of the senior cruiser present regardless of ranks
(do not mention sisko as he was some sort of soul vampire)
What I'd do for Science ships would be (stealing this idea mind you) is to give them innate subsystem targeting on all their energy weapon attacks and I'd also like to see their attack range increased to 12k instead of the 10 that all classes get now.
The above would be a huge advantage for Science Vessels.
Here would be my preferred firing ranges for all ships:
Escorts = 8k with a small damage boost if attacking from 4k or closer
Cruisers = 10k (With a Critical Hit Bonus when attacking within 6k)
Science = 12k with an accuracy bonus when attacking from maximum range
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
tanky behaviour/abilities is the answer.and cryptic is trying to figure this out.well yeah i agree that they take their sweet time but they are aware of this and they are trying to do something about it without ruining the game for all the other people who dont play cruisers.they also think about how go get science ships be better at what theyre supposed to do.
i have been flying escorts around for 3 years.everytime i listen to someone talking about escorts being overpowered i get confused and think that maybe those guys are playing a different game than me.cause my escort gets popped so easily...i got a good build and good boff power set up,not the best possible.it works really well for me.the problem is that i always get all the aggro ... its been a long time since i ve seen a cruiser do tanking.most cruisers right now are being used by tacts.or at least thats what i see every single time i do a queued mission.they all brag about their dps and how they can come close to mine (me flying an andorian kumari).there is the problem.cruiser is a tank.tanks dont do much damage.if people wanna break cruisers and get all that survivability and also have good dps,they will always keep on dreaming.if you make your cruiser more assult oriented then you loose survivability.if you make your cruiser more tank oriented you loose firepower.
i also have a eng toon that flies around in an eng odyssey.i dont even remember dying once.truth be told i dont pvp.but i have done the hive elite lots of times without dying,exclude the big bad cannons on those two big things that are unavoidable.actually i focus on shield tanking.and even if my shields drop my hull can still take a lot of beating.why are so many people saying that cruisers dont have survivability?mine does(yeah yeah yeah i dont PvP i said that already).
there is one thing though that cruisers=tanks dont have in this game.all those abilities that give you a steady control over aggro and abilities that boost your survivability when under constant beating.in the few times that i did PvP i saw that even without those abilities (which are too many to remember right now but weve all played another big mmo or two so you know what this game is missing) my cruiser was doing pretty well.and whenever an escort choose to come at me i just activated reverse shield polarity(is that what its called?you know the skill that turns all incoming damage into shiled heal?) and ruined his carefully executed assault and those skills he activated were wasted.then the escort was close enough for me to immobilise with my tractor beam.it doesnt really matter if the escort has a polarise hull or an omega maneuver.i ruined his attack run and i have exposed him long enough for a beam target weapons or engines to make him think twice about taking me on one on one.that escort almost always get popped either by me or a team mate that was close to support me.
thats how i experience things.i must admit that i have met some escort guys that i just couldnt even drop their shields even though i was using tetryon Mk XII and did severe dps.i just assumed that they somehow cheated cause that didnt make any sense.what build could ever provide to an escort such tanking ability?
now i just remembered how painfull it was to level my eng toons cause of the lack of any good dps.but the survivability was very good.at least on the hard difficulty.
in the end i wondering.are talking about cruiser survivavility generally or specificly in PvP?
from where im sitting escorts cant really survive sustained fire while cruisers can easily take almost anything you throw at them.
please refer me to builds that can make escorts into gods to test them and see if all this talk is for real.
i say give cruiser a moderate base resistance against all.that will be enhanced by similar character skills and powers.and that resistance will be a standard to all cruisers.that way people who spec in survivability will be able to make their cruiser tougher.like the way science ships get the targeted beam skills for free.
in the end the problem is with the game mechanics.for a permanent and fare solutiion the only way to go is to completely revamp the game mechanics..thats impossible.so to find a way to balance these game mechanics who (i admit it) favor escort ships the devs need to do a lot of reseach that will take a lot of time and testing before even considaring to go ahead and impliment a new balancing skill/item or game mechanic.i heard an interview with a dev 2 weeks ago and that dev(dont remember name and too bored to check right now,it was a 4 hour interview) said that they tried to figure this out and they got lost in the math!
even if you change ranges escort people will just go back to cloaking attacks(lately i dont see many defiants around).even if you can shoot them at 20k it wont matter.and they can very easily cover that distance in a matter of seconds.
We don't need heavy beams. we need:
1.) Beams to (not) drain power like dual heavy cannons don't.
2.) Beam equivalent of Rapid Fire.
rapid fire beams or probably the same thing with a better name would be the best.in so many ST battles i have seen ships firing their beams at an increased rate.just look at how fast the sovereign class shoots those phasers while doing a flyby over the borg cube in first contact.i think it has a canon base so all the more season to actually put it in game.just be ready to see escorts breaking this really fast though...hmmm they could actually make this an engineering ability.a skill to raise fire rate.most escorts cant equip a lieutenant commande engineer so make this a tier 3 skill for boffs
As for how to fix science vessels under this system, no clue as science vessels are not the healers. I'd suggest adding an inherent stat to ships that buffs both exotic/kinetic damage from science abilities and controls from science abilities. Then give science vessels alot of said stat, give science-y escorts and cruisers alot less and standard escorts and cruisers almost none. Tweaking the effect of this stat will let you control/balance Science Vessel DPS and CC viability.
1) Cruisers at the moment lack the punch as other ships, and as people point out, escorts are no longer the glass cannon they use to be and how one of the biggest draw back to the cruisers is the lack of DPS in both PvP and STFs.
2) As an engineer focused ship, it makes sense that they would make their ships more specialized, more efficient, and perform levels above the operating standards.
Adding armor, which sounds nice, only makes a cruiser more tank like, and a well spec'ed out cruiser isn't an issue. It also doesn't solve the core problem. where as adding a second deflector for science ships does double their ability potential.
Just my two cents
Say 25 points to spread as they wish among ship power levels as a semi-permanent buff that could be changed once per day.
Armor though can be incorporated into into vessel. Cruisers need mass in the in rhe shape of possibly more hull.
I know I would enjoy my BC getting buffed.
R.I.P
So once again science ships would get the shaft...
1s charge up animation followed by 1 hit, 2 hits per volley, 5s cyckle
Higher base dmg, but same dps as beam array, reduced arc to 180degrees.
Works with Beam Overload, Does not work with subsystem targeting or FAW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds
1:03
Then you might as well use a DBB.
Beside DBBhardpoints on most ships are horrble, for example edge of galaxy Saucer :rolleyes:
The short version, I want a beam that has weapon drain mechanics (see not the dmg) of a DHC.