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Talk me out of a Fleet Star Cruiser
handsmahoney
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I currently fly a wells-class on my main, who is a science captain. I've had an urge for the longest time to get my grubby mitts on a fleet star cruiser, because I'm looking for a little bit more tank. I'm pretty poor at tanking and mitigating damage in my wells. Granted, I tend to fly it more like a tac boat instead of a science vessel, but I was wondering if the fleet star cruiser would benefit me for survivability.
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If beams are your thing than try the Fleet Assault Cruiser.
This isn't a 'for god's sake don't do it!' but more like 'for that price there are ships that can do what you want but better.'
I'd say don't fly a cruiser. Of any sort. Yeah, they have more survivability. But their turn rate is so slow. And they tend to have to use beams. It's just bad all around. Stick with your science ship.
Turn rate's getting fixed pretty heavily in LoR, it seems, and Cruisers can be decent even with beams as long as you're willing to set up one of the very few builds that makes them decent.
That said, I favor the BOff seating on the Fleet Assault Cruiser for when I'm interested in flying a Cruiser. Not available to everyone yet, but I'd recommend it if you can get it.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
You mean the RCS console change? It's a buff to RCS consoles. But all it does is really up each console up by a magnitude. So like if you have 1 RCS, you now get the buff like you had 2. But it works that way on all ships.
Cruisers will still realatively turn really slow.
Since the OP is in a Wells class ship ... I mean, the sluggishness is going to be noticeable.
The issue with beams is almost as frustrating at the turning. It's just annoying. All the hoops needed to jump through to get every last erg of weapons energy and dps buffing and target debuffing and stacking consoles just to get the kind of deeps that someone in common MK X's in a Defiant can do by mashing the spacebar.
It's just too frustrating. I recommend the OP stick with ships that are already nimble and very powerful and fun to fly. The Wells is one of those.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
You are doing something drastically wrong if that's all the better dps you are putting out
That said, of all the Fed Cruisers, it's the toughest you can ever get. The ENG consoles is standard cruiser fare, so it's going to be rugged. The SCI consoles though means you can put alot of stuff to boost shielding ability, like Shield Emitters, capacity, or regen rates, or whatever combination. It has high hull points an a 1.1 shield mod.
BOFF assignments? It's just enough playroom to throw FAW1 or BO1 with APD or APB. The ENG slots let you play with practically the full spectrum of whatever ENG setup you want. Science-wise, you can have all 3 nice abilities of PH1, HE2, TSS1. The TSS will be another nice boost to your shields, alongside the 4 SCI consoles.
Of note, since you are able to play with more SCI abilities than usual for a Cruiser, you probably want more reliable and stable Aux Power source. An Aux2Batt build may not be optimal due to the wonky nature of Aux Power with such a setup. Unless you like popping Red Matter Capacitor or Aux Batteries all the time. Still, with A2Batt, in combination with Technician DOFFs, it will cut down cooldowns on all abilities.
I've been looking at the idea of getting one for my Fed ENG. It's just I'm not too fond of the ship model.
Hah, you know it's not the same.
Sci vessel weapons loadout. Less Engineer abilities, alot more towards Science, which overall has become weak in this game. 8k less hull points, but it has alot stronger shield mod.
Not saying the Nebula is bad, it's just not quite the same sturdiness as the Fleet Star Cruiser.
Not really. All those builds have cruiser captains jumping through tons of hoops. Gathering expensive DOFFs, using Embassy consoles, exotic damage, etc, etc, etc. And in the end, it's still just middling DPS.
Instead, one could fly a Patrol Escort or a Retro Defiant or any other ship actually designed for Deeps, and not hampered by all of the things a cruiser is hampered by, and put out middling Deeps without even trying.
And then if one were to try, and were to start jumping through hoops in one of those Deeps ships ... well, let's just say that this game makes it far more accessible to do deeps in ships that aren't cruisers.
Apparently the Nebula is the secret KING of Deeps. As stated in this post here.
To quote: "Honestly, I don't think the Nebula needs much help. I know someone who flies one with [-Th] consoles and the thing puts out so much damage that it's nearly impossible to draw aggro away from it."
And then supported in the very next post here.
Apparently the Nebula is magic bananas. But the Galaxy is month old plantains.
Access to a T5 Shipyard is not really the best advice to give is it? I mean really at that point, we might as well tell the OP to get a lockbox ship. The Galor and the D'Kora are both cruisers that can outperform the fleet star cruiser.
Yes, I understand what you are saying, and I'm telling you if you fully pimp out a cruiser and are not doing the dps that a fully pimped out escort can do in an stf, then you are terrible and need to work on your flying. The Fleet Excel or Fleet Assault (or fleet vor'cha/tac bortas kdf side) in an A2B layout should be doing top tier damage, something that you actually have to work much much hard at in an escort due to dhc arc and less forgiving damage dropoff. I'm talking, say, 18k+ parses in ISE for example.
What exactly is an A2B cruiser setup for max damage hampered by, other than poor heals if you decide not to use Aux batteries or EPtA to boost aux when needed. You have better base survivability by being able to keep up max speed broadsiding, while escorts are stuck doing the forward reverse dance, not to mention better base hull to begin with. And of course silliness like RSP with super reduced cooldown.
So, yes, you have the upfront cost of 3 purple technicians. A doff that is available in the b'tran colony chain for those that don't want to spend the EC on the exchange, something that can't be said for attack pattern doffs on the escort side. Marion is certainly nice to have, but not absolutely required. Otherwise you could use your aforementioned mk x white disruptor beams and put up average escort damage.
So, you have flexibility to run a standard cruiser build for healing or whatever, or a damage build by going A2B. I can understand cruiser whines for pvp because the damage dynamic is quite different, but A2B beam cruisers right now are amazing in pve
Fully pimping out a cruiser is a waste of time. And the OP wants to fly a fleet star cruiser at that. A complete waste of time and resources.
Fully pimp out a bug ship. And be done with it. Or, here's an insane idea ... stick with the Wells he's already flying. Pimp that out. And never ever think of flying a star cruiser again.
(Just a note: My engineering VA flies a star cruiser.)
Sooo, you make mention to needing to pimp out a ship, I counter with the benefits of doing it on a cruiser and how you have a poorly informed view, and you say don't pimp a cruiser? :eek:
Anyway, OP wanted more tank, so this discussion is a tangent at best. I'll assume your avoiding the damage topic means that you are agreeing with me that you are a terrible A2B cruiser pilot. And considering no gear is locked to a ship, I'm not sure why you're required to pimp out a specific ship versus a general equipment layout. Having a half set of xii rommie beams to go with all the embassy consoles and plasma tac consoles needed for top pve damage right now is not exactly a huge extra stretch.
You sir are a joke and are behind on the times something fierce.
For what? PvP? PvE? A2B Cruisers are ****ing ace right now. Sure the Fleet Star isn't the best thing ever, but its still going to do 7-10K DPS with an A2B build and be able to tank absolutely everything while keeping aggro and not dying (thus keeping aggro away from your Tacs that can't tank ****).
My friend runs a dedicated healer Ambassador, and I run a dedicated Tank Fleet Excelsior. The Ambassador gets 7K DPS on ISE, and I get 10-12K DPS on ISE. I used to run a FTER before I started getting into A2B Builds and the traditional build (2 DHC / 2Torps, with the right doffs) I could not do above 5K DPS. Why? I absolutely suck at Piloting and aiming those DHC.
And stop ******** about people using Cruisers. FACR and Fleet Excelsior are amazing ships (and the Tac Bortas, and a couple of KDF ships can do it too). I know 2 people who can do 20K DPS Cruisers, and a few others that can do 15K. One of them is using Mk XII green weapons.
Sticking with Escorts are a waste of time (Well maybe not the newer ones). The Bug is kinda antiquated and is basically only purchased for the Hangers. Bug, Andorian and JHEC (MAYBE FTER) are the only escorts you probably want.
Also your stupid sig linking to the EPS post from 2010 is stupid. EPS Consoles are used to recharge your Aux faster after it comes back online after A2B (thus getting more weapon power buffer faster) and not because it is reducing weapons drain.
Also Cannons are going to be a thing of the past soon. They don't buffer past 125 Weapons Power unlike BAs (and possibly DBBs but I'm not 100%% sure of this as i haven't looked into them recently).
OP can fly whatever he wants. If he wants to tank, get the Fleet Star Cruiser. It won't do the most DPS but who cares? I would suggest the Fleet ACR.
Edit: If you still don't *get* it. I ran an ISE with a few random people. the top two were both using A2B builds.
I suggest the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit, aka Fleet Ambassador. It has a LTC Sci seating over 1 Lt and 1 Ensign, meaning you can slot PH1, HE2, and TSS3 if you choose to, or you can swap the HE and TSS.
It also has a Lt Tac and Ensign Tac, so you can double up on Tac Team if you don't have Tac Team DOffs.
Third, it has a Lt Universal, meaning it's more flexible. My idea for a tanking Ambassador puts a Tac in this seat with me using 2 copies of APD with the APD Threat DOffs for massive aggro pull. You could slot a Sci in this seat for adding a bit of control with Tractor Beam, or use Siphon Power as the LTC Power so you can cycle between Siphon and EPS Transfer to always have massive amounts of power, or a Lt Engi if you just need more Engi powers.
My 2 cents on the matter.
Yup. It's a waste of resources. If the OP wants to put together those resources and sink all of that time the OP should do it for a ship that in the end will be, to quote EPMD's classic "Jane" ... "Better, Stronger, and much faster."
Nah, I just think the gimmick is a waste of time.
Really? What if the OP isn't in a fleet with access to all that embassy gear?
Thanks for helping to instill a sense of community on these forums. It's posters like you that really make the internet shine. Keep up the excellent work sir.
For everything.
He can already do that in the ship he's already flying. He can sink all of those resources into his wells and just be better at everything than he would be in a star cruiser. Except tanking. Which isn't needed since in PvE he can tank just fine on the toughest content with a few tweaks to his current ship and in PvP he can play the far more valuable science role.
It's a waste of time and resources. He'll be going backwards. He's already a science captain in a wells. He's already set up to be a key asset in PvP groups. And can make his ship kick far more borg butt in STFs. The only compelling reason for him to switch to any kind of cruiser is he's so bored with the game that he purposely wants to gimp himself into flying slow turning ships just so everything he does takes longer.
Excellent, confirming just terrible then.
You could run a white mk x disruptor beam A2B build and out do most escorts in stfs. Basically the opposite of what you have stated. I'm assuming you've never actually tried this or you wouldn't be this dense on the topic.
Nope, not terrible. Just a far better pilot than you. Which is cool. It's ok to admit that you're inferior. No one will hold it against you. It's ok that you don't know how to harness the actual DPS ships in this game. But a lot of us do. And that's why we fly them. Not star cruisers.
Hooray, you've descended to my Dad could beat your Dad up talk. I'd of course love to run an STF with you to see this superior piloting, as I will fully admit I'm not a top tier pve escort pilot by any means. But I truly question any advice you'd give after your reaction to the A2B side of cruisers.
And I'm still confused why you would be worried about wasted resources on a ship since everything except the hull could be reused. ~20mil EC to buy the fleet modules off the exchange is not exactly a huge lost investment in a ship if he feels like flying something different, with the bonus upside of having equivalent or better damage potential than the Wells if he wanted to go the A2B route
That said, OP, you'd gain more flexibility on the cruiser road going with the Fleet Excel instead. You lose a touch of tanking ability over the Star Cruiser, but the damage potential if you so choose is much higher. Plus the sassy transwarp thingie.
Or, as snoggy has said, just rework your Wells for more tanking, since you state you've angled it towards tactical. The shields on that ship are ridiculous, tanking should not be an issue.
You sir are kinda nuts if you think Cannons are going to surpass Beams, you make these claims of cruisers doing 15-20k dps but have no evidence, you say you did a few randoms, thats exactly what they are *random*. Just because the Cruisers might have done best doesn't mean they are the best, same going with just because you can't fly one doesn't mean it sucks.
Nothing wrong with his sig at all, there are people who ask if the EPS helps with weapon power regen which it doesn't, I know when I started the game I was giving incorrect advice about EPS'.
I was told it was a must have console by my friend, and for months I used it till I finally learned different.
Here's a parse of my Fleet Excelsior using an aux2batt build a few days ago: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15nnig8&s=5 using mk XII [Acc]x3 Disruptor beams
Here's a parse of my Fleet Qin Raptor: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28k1xc5&s=5 using Fleet Disruptor DHCs...
First time I had personally really considered comparing them... The Qin isn't ideal, because it has a wasted ensign boff slot for a cannon build, but so does the Defiant which is popular so kind of the same in that respect... Anyway, food for thought... Would love to see a parser log for a 15k cruiser...
*T'tays/Kohross are mine
Ah, fleet excelsior and fleet assault cruiser work really well with single cannons.
Their turn rates are good enough for it. Especially the excelsior. Although, I like the Fleet assault cruiser for its boff layout and hence, you can slot a torp their if that is your thing without it affecting the lt cmdr boff station.
EDIT: Here is a showcase on the Excelsior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTXaFldQl6I
I really love this ship and always go back to it. The looks have grown on me because of its excellent performance. As for the Fleet Assault, I think I finally have a decent build with it and am getting liking it more and more. Though, as many have stated, you need a tier 5. I only obtained mine two weeks ago. The showcase shows both an Excel beam boat and an Excel cannon build and gives you step by steps on how to make said ships. Worth a look.
As many people in this thread have stated, a Fleet Star Cruiser will not provide as much DPS as can be had with more Tactically-orientated Fleet Cruisers (or even the C-store Odysseys). However, if you're looking for a well-rounded tanking Cruiser, the Fleet Star Cruiser is an excellent choice. The other two tankiest Fed Crusiers around are probably the Science Odyssey and Fleet Exploration Retrofit; however, they are both slower than the Fleet Star Cruiser. I've recently bought one of the latter recently and I've quite enjoyed it so far.
There are some comments about the Nebula-class; I have a Fleet Nebula (Fleet Advanced Research Science Vessel Retrofit) for my Fed Sci toon and it's a blast. The BOff slots offer a wide range of Eng/Sci combinations (Eject Warp Plamsa plus Gravity Well = excellent PvE crowd control) and in terms of raw stats, it's the toughest "pure" Science Vessel out there. Slightly slower turning as a result, but still very versatile.