Tribal Knowledge Senseless 'Hot' Debates
How many arguments on these forums really come down to a poor understanding of game mechanics? Pretty much every single one I have ever been involved in I hate to say.
I have been in many of those arguments. Since Cryptic doesn't release enough information, people end up getting angry, confused, and defensive. I am guilty of falling into all three criteria.
Tribal Knowledge Poor Play Experience
It has been said that only a small portion of the playerbase even bothers to visit the forums. How on earth are they supposed to be expected to make informed decisions in game during character customization? How many would rather just quit the game then put the effort required to learn how it works after the borg smash 'em?
I learned this game through a trial and error process. You do not need to read the forums, so that you can understand how something works. "Star Trek: Online" gives players enough information; thus, the system it is build upon is intuitive. While learning how to build computers and use software, the college I went to encouraged experimentation. You do not need a book in order to use software or computers.
Just going out on a limb here, but people could just offer to help less knowledgeable players. Happens in fleets - at least it happens in Xiphias. Older players pass on their knowledge to newer players, who then pass it on to those who join after them, and so on.
Just going out on a limb here, but people could just offer to help less knowledgeable players. Happens in fleets - at least it happens in Xiphias. Older players pass on their knowledge to newer players, who then pass it on to those who join after them, and so on.
I agree I joined a fleet about a week ago and my in game knowledge has jump 110 percent, the trick is the elite players have to help the new players or you game starts to die.
Just going out on a limb here, but people could just offer to help less knowledgeable players. Happens in fleets - at least it happens in Xiphias. Older players pass on their knowledge to newer players, who then pass it on to those who join after them, and so on.
But thats the thing, that knowledge isn't always correct.
Take for example the skill chart reference linked in 'brokenmirror2012' guide from his sig. The way the weapon skills work is misleading in that chart and flat out wrong as they add a flat number (% of weapon type base) instead of a % of the weapons damage.
So info like that, misinformation to be precise, continues to be spread. They only thing I hate more than a lack of information is misinformation.
And yet that skill chart is one of the best pieces of reference material you can show to a newer player even with that error. Its...frustrating.
Take for example the skill chart reference linked in 'brokenmirror2012' guide from his sig. The way the weapon skills work is misleading in that chart and flat out wrong as they add a flat number (% of weapon type base) instead of a % of the weapons damage.
Indeed, my calculations showed that both skills add the same amount with each point I think, I noted it down using goal seek with each point added with 0 in whichever one I wasn't testing for the most accurate results
I do agree. The worst part is people have been trying to figure out this game and how it calculates things for 3 years and still there's parts where the only advice on getting it to work is to sacrifice goats on the solstice.
For instance only the other day did I find a post where someone explained the way tactical consoles specifically worked. Even that said you have to do back scaling for your weapons and stuff as they didn't have a list of mk 0 items (as they don't exist).
More information being released by the devs on how the math is applied would go some ways to this even if they can't be bothered updating all the tooltips.
Add a test dumbie system, like no win scenario but only one ai ship that get harder as each level goes on. Add a ranking system have a elite player train a novice player. Elite players would not be able to engage, novice player will be able to directly train and retrain powers in match .
Now the further the novice player goes in the match the more dilth the elite player gets. Until a hard cap of 5000 a day.
This will make friends and help the new comers.
=
Priceless
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions Zeadonouse ToLate
I think the #1 problem in STO is whoever makes the design decisions.
Science has been nerfed into uselessness.
Tactical & escorts have been buffed to absolutely idiotic levels of incredibly performance.
KDF still does not receive attention (bugs, glitches, ships)
...and the list goes on.
I'm not so sure about sci being useless. In PvP scis are the determining factor if both teams are competent.
Of course the real problem is that PvE mobs are hardly affected by most SCI powers. Which in turn was done because of the way scaling goes. An experienced sci player could stack so much of a particular buff and stat that they could keep Elite tac cubes perma drained of power. Naturally instead of simply putting soft caps and diminishing returns on said stats they made the NPCs practically immune to most sci powers.... /facealm.
You're correct that the problem is the poor design decisions, just not in the way you think. Most players don't know the various iterations of the meta game though, so not really the fault of player's for not knowing.
Responding to the original post: Why not heavily revise STOWiki to serve that purpose? They already have a well established platform in which to do it on.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I don't seem to have an issue, it is a game of practice and discovery. Frustration is part of the learning of this game, and this is the first game I have ever gotten into. I feel that my ship and weapons are adequate and I experiment all the time, learning what works is half the fun. It's pretty close to life, and at least I don't have to take it seriously. I guess being a Trekkie since the age of 4 helps so I got 47 years of lore to rely on.
I have found another problem. In the federation mission "Installation 18" when you try to rescue all of the test subjects there is one that won't beam up. Anyone know how to fix this
most skills dont really do much.. they make them sound like they are far more useful then they are..
it cost 500 zen to 'test' skills out.. unless you do it on tribble but most people dont know they can.
the tool tips dont usually say anything but more is better.. but how much better? its sad to say that some skills going from 6 to 9 only adds 1% more..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Even if Cryptic were less cryptic about so many things...there would still be a refusal on the part of many players to bother with any of that knowledge. It's a very casual game. Load up a ship...blow stuff up. Yay!
While it would be great to know more about this and that, outside of the min/max folks looking for the edge in PvP or the PvE folks looking to grind any faster...what would it really matter in the end? It's a very casual game...nothing wrong with that in the least, by the way. Calling it a very casual game is not a derogatory thing. Not everything is made for everybody...there are far more casual gamers out there than non-casual.
First off, all games have a learning curve and this one is one of the easier ones.
Second, the information is already there people just don't bother wasting time reading, same as I never read story text boxes;
because third, it doesn't matter. Elite maps are so forgiving you only need 2 real players.
And I know this first hand because I never knew what I was doing, never respec, never had a purple console and I started out fresh on elite on all characters and had no problems.
(Granted I read the forums and ask questions)
That aside, if those things weren't the case it's still not a problem because you can solve it, the information isn't exactly a well guarded secret.
This is indeed fixable and easily too - if it had even been an issue.
Being a forgiving game is one of the strong points of STO in fact. Made that way so people who like start trek but might not be gamers or have 14 years of knowledge of D and D rules can still play.
I have found another problem. In the federation mission "Installation 18" when you try to rescue all of the test subjects there is one that won't beam up. Anyone know how to fix this
According to the help desk, it takes a programmer to fix that. I've already /bugged it.
Second, the information is already there people just don't bother wasting time reading, same as I never read story text boxes;
While I may agree to an extent that it doesn't really matter because of the nature of the game, on the other hand - I have to disagree seriously with this part...because the information is not always there. There are many things that certain players (bareel is one of the players partaking in the task) have figured out and tried to share with other players. There are the rare tidbits where one of the devs will explain how something works, etc, etc, etc.
Much is still not available and most of it is not necessarily easily accessible to the average player...but again, in the end - it's STO so it doesn't really matter as you said.
Give me an Example?
How many players know how their damage from weapons is calculated? Not many, not many at all. This leads to confusion on what gear to aim for, how to build their ships, how important or unimportant specific aspects are and so on.
Ask the average player how damage for energy weapons is calculated...they won't be able to tell unless they've read through it on the forums (likely in a thread where bareel's been a heavy contributor to the thread).
The price of VR Mk XII Tac DEW consoles would come down in price if more folks knew how the damage was actually calculated...
Even in knowing how it is calculated, still requires somewhat of a constant vigil as changes are made...changes not reflected in patch notes...since the underlying math was never shared.
There are so many things, where if not for their relentless efforts...we just wouldn't not TRIBBLE about how things actually work.
Comments
I learned this game through a trial and error process. You do not need to read the forums, so that you can understand how something works. "Star Trek: Online" gives players enough information; thus, the system it is build upon is intuitive. While learning how to build computers and use software, the college I went to encouraged experimentation. You do not need a book in order to use software or computers.
I agree I joined a fleet about a week ago and my in game knowledge has jump 110 percent, the trick is the elite players have to help the new players or you game starts to die.
But thats the thing, that knowledge isn't always correct.
Take for example the skill chart reference linked in 'brokenmirror2012' guide from his sig. The way the weapon skills work is misleading in that chart and flat out wrong as they add a flat number (% of weapon type base) instead of a % of the weapons damage.
So info like that, misinformation to be precise, continues to be spread. They only thing I hate more than a lack of information is misinformation.
And yet that skill chart is one of the best pieces of reference material you can show to a newer player even with that error. Its...frustrating.
Indeed, my calculations showed that both skills add the same amount with each point I think, I noted it down using goal seek with each point added with 0 in whichever one I wasn't testing for the most accurate results
For instance only the other day did I find a post where someone explained the way tactical consoles specifically worked. Even that said you have to do back scaling for your weapons and stuff as they didn't have a list of mk 0 items (as they don't exist).
More information being released by the devs on how the math is applied would go some ways to this even if they can't be bothered updating all the tooltips.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
50% players get better
Explain EPtX in tutorial
20% player get better
Add a test dumbie system, like no win scenario but only one ai ship that get harder as each level goes on. Add a ranking system have a elite player train a novice player. Elite players would not be able to engage, novice player will be able to directly train and retrain powers in match .
Now the further the novice player goes in the match the more dilth the elite player gets. Until a hard cap of 5000 a day.
This will make friends and help the new comers.
=
Priceless
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
I'm not so sure about sci being useless. In PvP scis are the determining factor if both teams are competent.
Of course the real problem is that PvE mobs are hardly affected by most SCI powers. Which in turn was done because of the way scaling goes. An experienced sci player could stack so much of a particular buff and stat that they could keep Elite tac cubes perma drained of power. Naturally instead of simply putting soft caps and diminishing returns on said stats they made the NPCs practically immune to most sci powers.... /facealm.
You're correct that the problem is the poor design decisions, just not in the way you think. Most players don't know the various iterations of the meta game though, so not really the fault of player's for not knowing.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
most skills dont really do much.. they make them sound like they are far more useful then they are..
it cost 500 zen to 'test' skills out.. unless you do it on tribble but most people dont know they can.
the tool tips dont usually say anything but more is better.. but how much better? its sad to say that some skills going from 6 to 9 only adds 1% more..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
While it would be great to know more about this and that, outside of the min/max folks looking for the edge in PvP or the PvE folks looking to grind any faster...what would it really matter in the end? It's a very casual game...nothing wrong with that in the least, by the way. Calling it a very casual game is not a derogatory thing. Not everything is made for everybody...there are far more casual gamers out there than non-casual.
First off, all games have a learning curve and this one is one of the easier ones.
Second, the information is already there people just don't bother wasting time reading, same as I never read story text boxes;
because third, it doesn't matter. Elite maps are so forgiving you only need 2 real players.
And I know this first hand because I never knew what I was doing, never respec, never had a purple console and I started out fresh on elite on all characters and had no problems.
(Granted I read the forums and ask questions)
That aside, if those things weren't the case it's still not a problem because you can solve it, the information isn't exactly a well guarded secret.
This is indeed fixable and easily too - if it had even been an issue.
Being a forgiving game is one of the strong points of STO in fact. Made that way so people who like start trek but might not be gamers or have 14 years of knowledge of D and D rules can still play.
According to the help desk, it takes a programmer to fix that. I've already /bugged it.
While I may agree to an extent that it doesn't really matter because of the nature of the game, on the other hand - I have to disagree seriously with this part...because the information is not always there. There are many things that certain players (bareel is one of the players partaking in the task) have figured out and tried to share with other players. There are the rare tidbits where one of the devs will explain how something works, etc, etc, etc.
Much is still not available and most of it is not necessarily easily accessible to the average player...but again, in the end - it's STO so it doesn't really matter as you said.
We can easily agree on there be missing information as far as full disclosure.
Right off the back, he gave such an example of information that is not readily available and the majority of people do not understand correctly...
Ask the average player how damage for energy weapons is calculated...they won't be able to tell unless they've read through it on the forums (likely in a thread where bareel's been a heavy contributor to the thread).
The price of VR Mk XII Tac DEW consoles would come down in price if more folks knew how the damage was actually calculated...
Even in knowing how it is calculated, still requires somewhat of a constant vigil as changes are made...changes not reflected in patch notes...since the underlying math was never shared.
There are so many things, where if not for their relentless efforts...we just wouldn't not TRIBBLE about how things actually work.