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Need vs Greed in Fleet Action PUGs
voyagerfan9751
Member Posts: 1,120 Arc User
Ok, so I decided to start running Fleet Actions as a way to pass the time and earn Dilithium in preparation for Legacy of Romulus.
Since I am usually using the Public queue system, which automatic goes on the Need/greed system, I tended to monitor myself in relation to drop items.
If I was actually going to use the item for improving my build (I am rather low level on the toon I am using, so the build could use help) I would roll Need. If I was only going to sell the item for some quick EC, I would roll Greed. and of course if I didn't think it was worth my time either way, I would pass. I figured this was fairest to everyone, especially since I don't really know any of the other players.
The thing is, this usually resulted in me greeding on everything, so I end up getting nothing as someone else always rolled need. Now I am not complaining about other people's actions. They are free to do what they want, and I certainly don't expect a bunch of strangers to follow "my rules".
But my question is, Am I limiting myself for no reason? Am I truly being fair or am I just letting perfectly good loot go by because I didn't hit need? What is the generally excepted practice with public queue groups?
Since I am usually using the Public queue system, which automatic goes on the Need/greed system, I tended to monitor myself in relation to drop items.
If I was actually going to use the item for improving my build (I am rather low level on the toon I am using, so the build could use help) I would roll Need. If I was only going to sell the item for some quick EC, I would roll Greed. and of course if I didn't think it was worth my time either way, I would pass. I figured this was fairest to everyone, especially since I don't really know any of the other players.
The thing is, this usually resulted in me greeding on everything, so I end up getting nothing as someone else always rolled need. Now I am not complaining about other people's actions. They are free to do what they want, and I certainly don't expect a bunch of strangers to follow "my rules".
But my question is, Am I limiting myself for no reason? Am I truly being fair or am I just letting perfectly good loot go by because I didn't hit need? What is the generally excepted practice with public queue groups?
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Like I said, I am using public queues so as far as I know Need/Greed is all you get. but thanks for the feedback.
With an all fleet team, use greed; that way if a member really does need a loot drop everyone can agree to let them need on it to have it.
With a mixed (fleet and non-fleet) premade team, use all greed by mutual consent.
With a team with even one PUG member, need on everything because just about everyone in the PUG queues are going to needing on loot anyways.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
this^^^^^ and plus there will always bee some one greedy
system Lord Baal is dead
Then I realized everyone else was needing on everything, so now in PuGs I default to need. Otherwise you'll never get anything. A situation isn't fair when you're the only one being fair.
The simple logical reason: As long as I can upgrade my character/ship/duty officers with Energy Credits (I still have not got 400 purple duty officers), I will need on everything that I can sell for EC.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Not really. In public I always hit need since everyone always hits need. But when with fleetmates it's always greed unless you really need the item. If everyone hits greed, the computer decides randomly. If more than one hit need, the computer randomly decides between them. Very fair way. If you don't trust your fleet that much, why are you with them?
I didn't ask to be President of the Balloon Enterprises! The Balloon Enterprises demanded it!
It it really that bad in STO? In TOR (the only other MMO I play) people from the queues (team finder) don't have such problems. Default choice, as far as I noticed, is greed, with need chosen only if someone really needs something for himself. Some choose need for stuff for their companions, but really - most of rolls I usually see are greeds.
What's so bad in STO players, that they behave like dicks?
IF you don't choose, you default to PASS.
But that pop-up obscures a small part of the screen and you want to get rid of it? IF so, you have to choose and if you feel that the small amount of vendortrash EC is worth it? Pick NEED.
Otherwise, from just the ergonomics side, you should pick NEED since it's already bound to CTRL+Q and it's really too much trouble to select GREED or PASS (or worse, spend a minute to redo the keybinds).
*If you think the amount of EC is trivial, by all means just pick PASS (you can keybind CTRL+Q to select PASS instead). Personally, this kitteh's going to choose NEED unless the host says otherwise or the inventory gets full.
Nobody needs the items, everybody needs the EC. Asking players if they want free items is a stupid question that distracts from the game and wastes everyones time having to close the pop-ups. I wish they would get rid of the need and greed and just distributed the loot randomly.
that's all you need to know.
I think it is more of a system that because there will be one player who will always need even if they don't really need it in a PUG then everyone will just need to keep it fair. Since there is no loot drop bind on pickup items anymore and it is very easy to send to an alt, you can't prove that someone does not need that item. Plus 99% of loot in STO is classless unlike TOR where you can say "hey you are a bounty hunter what do you need a Jedi item for?".
In all the premade groups I've played in only a couple of times has anyone still needed on everything after agreeing on our "Need only if you REALLY Need" policy. And they didn't get to play with our fleet ever again.
Yesterday I saw a purple mkXI monotanium drop in starbase 24... I needed ('Need') it, but so did everybody else; result is I got a stack of airmolecules in my inventory but not that thing I wanted (to sell...).
And yes, I am playing in public que's.
I like to think of myself of 'being correct; the nice guy'.
Well, I can take only so much bull****, so I will start to rob everybody of their chance for a decent drop (that they will most probably also sell... that guy with the purple mono probably made a good ec out of it...)
This is it. From now on I will N E E D everything, even if its just a friggin' white, common mkX phaser array... Its all ec...
Dont blame me, blame the game...
Peace
ditto
used to do that too, after a while i realized i was leaving mission after mission with no drops what so ever
so then i decided to do some searching on need/greed here on the forum and saw another thread like this that explained it, then i realized all those times i was being nice and hitting greed... i was giving the items away with no hope to get any of them
so from then on, always need
ofc the exception are missions i do with my fleet, then its usually round robin
-General Chang
That said, if you see some loot go by that you really really want, say something after the battle. Check your system log tab for the loot rolls to see who got what. I for one am willing to cut deals with people who were on my team or give stuff away outright if it's relatively cheap. Never hurts to ask.
An all fleet group is different.
The drops are still vendor trash, though.
- always need more EC that is.
For example I am going to try a plasma build ship wise, so I have been replaying the Romulan arc missions that give the items for that. What I want is the reward of the mission, pretty much everything else that drops is vendor trash.
Of course, my group just runs FFA to cut down on even that distraction.
1. (a parable): You and two other families live out in the wilderness near a lake. The lake provides very good fishing, enough to support all three of you. You all agree to only take what you need for your family, and the lake will remain well stocked and everybody will be happy. After a while, you notice one of the other people is taking some extra fish from the lake and selling them in town for extra money. If you just allow this one person to do this, the lake will still be fine and able to supply you all. However, because it's "not fair", you are heavily inclined to start taking as much as he is. If you don't, the third person will. So pretty soon, you're all taking more than you need, the lake gets overfished, and now nobody has anything.
2a. (a lab experiment): Researchers give each member of a group $20. Each round, they have the option to contribute $1 to a communal pot. The researchers will then double the money in the pot and give each participant an equal cut back. Participants can not tell who is contributing and who is not. At first, everybody contributes and the maximum amount of money comes back. After a couple rounds, somebody realizes they can personally do better if they stop chipping in, but still get a cut of the proceeds regardless. The others soon notice, and more people stop chipping in. Before long, nobody chips in, and nobody gets anything. Rationally you should always contribute regardless of other people's behavior, because getting less is better than getting nothing. That's not how people will respond though, because it's "not fair", and with anonymity preventing any sort of personal reprisal against the cheater people just start to respond in kind.
2b. Same as above, except now you do it out in the open around a table where everybody can see whether you contribute or not. Everybody contributes, every time, due to social pressure. Nobody wants to be the guy who isn't chipping in.
The lab experiment basically demonstrates what the difference is between a PUG and a group of fleeties. In a PUG, your behavior has no consequence. So why not abuse the system? With your fleet mates, you are no longer anonymous, and may face reprisal by the fleet for needing unnecessarily. The takeaway here is that you will never get PUGs to use Need/Greed properly. Even if you can convince 99% of players to obey the rule, it only takes 1 miscreant in a match to collapse the entire thing. You might as well just accept it as the way it is and Need everything in PUGs.
I think the point here is that for FA/STF random drops being almost without exception vendor trash (I see maybe one random drop per ESTF that's even worth putting on the exchange), there's little real point to a need/greed system as in this game it just confuses players. Just change it to roll/pass.
Spock's Brain.
I Need on all Deflectors, Engines, and Shield Arrays
Pass on all others.
Hey I want the EC!
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol