Sigh...it seems the forum can never go a single month sometimes without another argument on JJ Trek.
Let me be absolutely clear on my stance on Abrams' Trek: of course it's inferior to the original series. It was always going to be inferior to the original series: nothing could change that. And yes, there was a lot about it that didn't really mesh with Star Trek lore, and yes, Chris Pine is the most annoying Captain Kirk ever. But I think the only way to really judge it is on its own merits: not as a successor to Star Trek (which, lets face it, it can never be) or as a continuation of the universe (which it doubly can never be, given...alternate universe and all), but just as a space adventure film which, while not absolutely amazing or mind-blowing, was still fun. Chris Pine and annoying lense flares aside, I actually enjoyed it, and I was able to enjoy it because I was willing to accept that, no, this was not the Star Trek I grew up watching. I treated it as a separate entity entirely.
That's my take on it, and I don't think it is worth expending so much rage and bile on a film which, by its own alternate-universe nature, is completely separated from the actual Star Trek universe anyway.
That said, I will agree that Metacritic has no bearing whatsoever as an authority. Individual taste supercedes anything that critics or fans have to say, period. (Although, re: harryhausen's post...I actually liked Abrams' Trek better than the Dark Knight Rises. On many different levels, TDKR was just a disappointment).
Was it ever really disputed that the 2009 film was the most popular Trek film? It's just that many fans of old Trek don't like how it went about achieving this.
This kind of stuff happens any time something with a devoted fan base 'sells out' and aims for a broader audience; because it's messing with a formula that is close to the fans hearts. I know people who flat refuse to watch the recent Batman movies, for the same reason.
It seems stupid and irrational to anyone who doesn't feel the same way; but passion generally does ('fan' is short for 'fanatic' after all).
You might be right to a point here, but keep in mind that you are still making a generalization. I'm a fan of all the series and I'll be the first to admit that many Star Trek movies are drama and dialogue heavy, to a fault, at times.
That being said, I was excited about 2009. I bought the IMAX extra-expensive tickets and for the first five minutes in the initial battle scene, I was glued to the chair-hooked! But then the Abrams curse(as I call it) kicked in. The same thing that happens with every Abrams creation happened here too. Great effects and a compelling opening to the story, but then it starts rapidly becoming obvious that the story is broad and that its lack of finer points becomes painfully obvious in the lack of overall plot development.
I don't think anyone is dumb or stupid for watching or enjoying anything from Star Trek. It's my fondest and truest wish that new generations can enjoy and love something that I enjoyed, and what became a large part of my growing up life. But what makes ST the story that it is in general was lost in 2009, it wasn't captured at all. It was a very generic feeling, summer action movie. That's fine - nothing wrong with that, but I don't pay good money to see that, I wait for it to hit Netflix.
I have always hoped that I would live to see the movie magic that could bring Trek to life. Fast paced battles that lasted more than 30 seconds and a story that was compelling, but still had character development, plot and story that could hold my attention. Despite the slow nature of insurrection, I enjoyed it better. It felt technically better. The back story led in at a proper clip with plot points that enhanced the story. The villain while not the baddest in movie history, was well acted (a tribute to F Murray Abraham) and his motivations were compelling. Even the nature of the Son'a was well hidden and revealed at about the right time. Not to mention the cinematography and the score.
I'm not saying that Abrams Trek was the worse dime I've seen. It had many good things about it, but it generally lost me as a Trek story but the weak story, lack luster plot and irrational motivations and behavior of the villain(it was half the movie before I knew he was Romulan) that made it a set-off to me.
I don't want to take away from anyone else's enjoying anything but I'd love to see the CGI action trek film with a classic score and story writer. Also, I think that I represent the core fan base of traditional trek, at least to a degree. There are many who would agree and disagree with me about this movie. I find it unlikely you (OP) will find one or some "facts" that will prove that 2009 was the best Trek. It depends on the fan you ask or the metrics by which you judge it. Otherwise it's a matter of personal viewing enjoyment.
I haven't slagged the first film once. I've been slagging the new movie, and I've been slagging it for being a retread of an old movie, instead of doing something new and original.
I didn't start replying in this thread because I think JJ Trek was a horrible movie (I don't think it was as good as TWOK or First Contact, but it was a whole lot better than Star Trek V or Nemesis). I'd rank the first JJ Trek about even with Generations and Star Trek VI. I started replying in this thread because your argument, that Metacritic ratings are 'facts' that no one can argue with, is silly.
The fallacy you have been committing (for some time now) is to act as if your opinion were objective fact. You slam the use of critics, because "those are just their opinions" - then you deride those of us who enjoyed the last ST movie, and didn't particularly enjoy Insurrection or Nemesis, as "dumb".
I understand not wanting to take the time to read all my posts in this board from the last few days, but at least do me the common courtesy of actually reading the post you're responding to before you try to 'break it down for me'. You here claim I've been saying 'for some time now', the exact opposite of what I've been saying.
Heh, I think Tokyo drift was the best of the bunch, tho the latest one is enjoyable up until they run the corvette into the ravine.
:eek:
Frakking criminal what they did to that beauty.
This is where opinion is a funny thing Personally speaking, I like Tokyo Drift As a Movie in its own right, but I never really considered it part of the series, as bar Vin Diesel's cameo at the end, with the lack of any of the Usual Suspects, it just doesn't really fit into the chronology IMHO.
But yeah, takes a very warped mind to put a 'vette off a cliff like that (and I'm not even a huge car fan )
Do you think maybe the massive difference in Number of Votes (298,255 V's avg 40,000) has anything to do with it? Or the amount to time that has passed since the 'Oldies'? Perhaps the generational change of the Star Trek Consumer? :rolleyes:
Star Trek for the average long time Trekker means something very different to the new 'Lense Flare Fan'. It is a different kind of trek ... one that I am not a fan of regardless of votes. Same reason I am not a fan of Twilight, The Voice, Dancing With the Stars, or Glee
^^^^ Perhaps it's a generational thing. I am having this problem a lot actually. There are very few things on TV newer than a decade that I care to watch and I usually skip years at a time from the theaters because its getting more difficult to find a good movie made by the US film industry as a whole.
LOL, the OP is so misguided. He is equating popularity with quality.
meh - I don't care how many people liked the Abrams reboot, it does not change my opinion of it. But I understand that some people have a need to have their preferences validated by random strangers.
LOL, the OP is so misguided. He is equating popularity with quality.
meh - I don't care how many people liked the Abrams reboot, it does not change my opinion of it. But I understand that some people have a need to have their preferences validated by random strangers.
I wouldn't call him misguided. Sure, popularity and quality are separate things, but the problem is, popularity dictates quality. If TRIBBLE sells, then TRIBBLE gets made.
I mean, look at the Transformers movies. Everyone agreed that they sucked, and yet people went to see them. In droves. (To the tune of $1,079,598,253.00) Same with JJTrek. Was it the best Star Trek? No. Was it even good Star Trek? Does it matter? It made $257,730,019. So guess what we're getting more of?
Soooo... obviously at some point last night I got drunk and spent about fifteen minutes copy-and-pasting imdb.com to form a wall-o-trollbait. Nicely packaged trollbait, but trollbait nonetheless.
I have taken down the original post and left an apology in its place, which I will reiterate here:
I sincerely apologize to anyone and everyone (especially harryhausen) who I offended last night and to everyone who got drawn into yet another incendiary thread about the merits (or lack thereof) of various Star Trek movies and their directors.
May this horrible thread of mine rot in peace.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
i surely hope the OP has no access to a loaded gun or a fast vehicle while he is under the influence of alcohol.
Unfortunately I do have access to both. Thankfully I was on the internet at the time... :P
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Comments
Let me be absolutely clear on my stance on Abrams' Trek: of course it's inferior to the original series. It was always going to be inferior to the original series: nothing could change that. And yes, there was a lot about it that didn't really mesh with Star Trek lore, and yes, Chris Pine is the most annoying Captain Kirk ever. But I think the only way to really judge it is on its own merits: not as a successor to Star Trek (which, lets face it, it can never be) or as a continuation of the universe (which it doubly can never be, given...alternate universe and all), but just as a space adventure film which, while not absolutely amazing or mind-blowing, was still fun. Chris Pine and annoying lense flares aside, I actually enjoyed it, and I was able to enjoy it because I was willing to accept that, no, this was not the Star Trek I grew up watching. I treated it as a separate entity entirely.
That's my take on it, and I don't think it is worth expending so much rage and bile on a film which, by its own alternate-universe nature, is completely separated from the actual Star Trek universe anyway.
That said, I will agree that Metacritic has no bearing whatsoever as an authority. Individual taste supercedes anything that critics or fans have to say, period. (Although, re: harryhausen's post...I actually liked Abrams' Trek better than the Dark Knight Rises. On many different levels, TDKR was just a disappointment).
That beats any film ever. . .
Get the sarcastic view there
You might be right to a point here, but keep in mind that you are still making a generalization. I'm a fan of all the series and I'll be the first to admit that many Star Trek movies are drama and dialogue heavy, to a fault, at times.
That being said, I was excited about 2009. I bought the IMAX extra-expensive tickets and for the first five minutes in the initial battle scene, I was glued to the chair-hooked! But then the Abrams curse(as I call it) kicked in. The same thing that happens with every Abrams creation happened here too. Great effects and a compelling opening to the story, but then it starts rapidly becoming obvious that the story is broad and that its lack of finer points becomes painfully obvious in the lack of overall plot development.
I don't think anyone is dumb or stupid for watching or enjoying anything from Star Trek. It's my fondest and truest wish that new generations can enjoy and love something that I enjoyed, and what became a large part of my growing up life. But what makes ST the story that it is in general was lost in 2009, it wasn't captured at all. It was a very generic feeling, summer action movie. That's fine - nothing wrong with that, but I don't pay good money to see that, I wait for it to hit Netflix.
I have always hoped that I would live to see the movie magic that could bring Trek to life. Fast paced battles that lasted more than 30 seconds and a story that was compelling, but still had character development, plot and story that could hold my attention. Despite the slow nature of insurrection, I enjoyed it better. It felt technically better. The back story led in at a proper clip with plot points that enhanced the story. The villain while not the baddest in movie history, was well acted (a tribute to F Murray Abraham) and his motivations were compelling. Even the nature of the Son'a was well hidden and revealed at about the right time. Not to mention the cinematography and the score.
I'm not saying that Abrams Trek was the worse dime I've seen. It had many good things about it, but it generally lost me as a Trek story but the weak story, lack luster plot and irrational motivations and behavior of the villain(it was half the movie before I knew he was Romulan) that made it a set-off to me.
I don't want to take away from anyone else's enjoying anything but I'd love to see the CGI action trek film with a classic score and story writer. Also, I think that I represent the core fan base of traditional trek, at least to a degree. There are many who would agree and disagree with me about this movie. I find it unlikely you (OP) will find one or some "facts" that will prove that 2009 was the best Trek. It depends on the fan you ask or the metrics by which you judge it. Otherwise it's a matter of personal viewing enjoyment.
Thank you.
You responded to:
By Saying:
I understand not wanting to take the time to read all my posts in this board from the last few days, but at least do me the common courtesy of actually reading the post you're responding to before you try to 'break it down for me'. You here claim I've been saying 'for some time now', the exact opposite of what I've been saying.
But yeah, takes a very warped mind to put a 'vette off a cliff like that (and I'm not even a huge car fan
Sander is a very talented man.
^^^^ Perhaps it's a generational thing. I am having this problem a lot actually. There are very few things on TV newer than a decade that I care to watch and I usually skip years at a time from the theaters because its getting more difficult to find a good movie made by the US film industry as a whole.
meh - I don't care how many people liked the Abrams reboot, it does not change my opinion of it. But I understand that some people have a need to have their preferences validated by random strangers.
I wouldn't call him misguided. Sure, popularity and quality are separate things, but the problem is, popularity dictates quality. If TRIBBLE sells, then TRIBBLE gets made.
I mean, look at the Transformers movies. Everyone agreed that they sucked, and yet people went to see them. In droves. (To the tune of $1,079,598,253.00) Same with JJTrek. Was it the best Star Trek? No. Was it even good Star Trek? Does it matter? It made $257,730,019. So guess what we're getting more of?
I have taken down the original post and left an apology in its place, which I will reiterate here:
I sincerely apologize to anyone and everyone (especially harryhausen) who I offended last night and to everyone who got drawn into yet another incendiary thread about the merits (or lack thereof) of various Star Trek movies and their directors.
May this horrible thread of mine rot in peace.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Unfortunately I do have access to both. Thankfully I was on the internet at the time... :P
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Personally, I'm not an TRIBBLE man. I prefer to ogle her sweet DHC's, if you catch my drift.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Im beggining to see a pattern here and its telling me......bacon is good
And who says the internet is ruining humanity? :P