To keep the 20hr 2800 reputation missions going you only need to do 1x eSTF (for Omega: 60+ OM) and 1x Tau Dewa Sector Patrol (for Romulan : 60 RM) per day to have enough Marks to keep them going... So all you need is a whole lot of time. For perhaps 1 hour per character to do both missions (this time can vary a lot (both shorter or longer) depending on the skill of the teammates you have in the eSTF).
The grind only shows itself when you actually want to BUY an item that you have just unlocked. This will require you to not only start saving your dili, but also additional marks in addition to that one mission per rep. you normally do.
While it would make gameplay for alts a whole lot easier to have account or faction wide reputation collection... I think however that it would be a bad idea.
I would prefer another approach...
A discount which would be available for items which a previous character already bought.
If the 2nd character decides to buy something else he would be considered 1st buyer.
It would for example start with 10% and gets raised by 10% per character up to max 50%.
Example:
1st buyer: 0%
2nd buyer: 10%
3rd buyer: 20%
This would at least force alts to from a RP sence "prove" themselves to the Omega Task Force or Romulan Republic (by time grinding the rep.missions) while at the same time make it slightly easier for people with a lot of alts to buy items they had already bought.
This brings me to my point, why not change the items from Character to account based?
I would rather they made the reputation bar account based (or even faction based), and maintain the current project system for acquiring gear per character.
I don't mind having to grind out marks for each piece of gear, but I have no interest in spending close to two months per character grinding out the same rep bars.
The grind only shows itself when you actually want to BUY an item that you have just unlocked.
That doesn't bother me. I expect being required to put some effort into producing or acquiring gear. The current grinds associated with acquiring gear are fine; it's the pointless repetition of the reputation grind that's an issue for me.
While it would make gameplay for alts a whole lot easier to have account or faction wide reputation collection... I think however that it would be a bad idea.
Why?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I don't mind having to grind out marks for each piece of gear, but I have no interest in spending close to two months per character grinding out the same rep bars.
Sounds like you've weighed the costs against the merits and come to a reasoned conclusion. Other people have reached the opposite conclusion. The system is working.
Sounds like you've weighed the costs against the merits and come to a reasoned conclusion. Other people have reached the opposite conclusion. The system is working.
Is that your way of saying I shouldn't bother continuing to read or post in this thread?
Go troll someone else.
Off-topic: how do I report posts on these forums? I'm not seeing an option to anywhere.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Another thing Cryptic has to consider is how they say they want people to have "fun".
If you got one character, it's not so bad. You can do what you want. But the more characters you have, the less fun it is, because you have to work to maintain those characters. Therefore, goes into the comments people have about STO being a "job".
Now if PW did make this an account unlock system, it might actually promote more play. Which could promote more expanding into different factions with more diverse type of play where every character could have a different story or playstyle. (And PW can literally profit by this, since they could sell more things in the Zen Store).
Sounds like you've weighed the costs against the merits and come to a reasoned conclusion. Other people have reached the opposite conclusion. The system is working.
What I was saying still requires the same amount of "Grind" for each item, but it allows you to buy them on Characters already maxed out in the Reputation lines.
And PW can literally profit by this, since they could sell more things in the Zen Store.
So in the end, it ends up Win-Win for everyone.
As near as I can tell, they adhere solely to the concept that if they can get you to log in, you have a X% chance of spending cash, and so they try to push you to log in every day. Of course, that's usually outweighed by the Y% chance you find their constant efforts to push you into logging in everyday as overwhelming to the gameplay experience itself, and the resulting Z% chance you just leave the game entirely.
What I was saying still requires the same amount of "Grind" for each item, but it allows you to buy them on Characters already maxed out in the Reputation lines.
He wasn't trolling you. No need to defend yourself; there's regular support in this thread for account-wide reputation gains.
I've seen claims that the status quo is acceptable, but no actual defense of it. His line that "other people have reached the opposite conclusion" is one such empty claim.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I don't mind having to grind out marks for each piece of gear, but I have no interest in spending close to two months per character grinding out the same rep bars. Originally Posted by rvlion79
While it would make gameplay for alts a whole lot easier to have account or faction wide reputation collection... I think however that it would be a bad idea. Why?
This is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game as you well know.
These games generally have (various) Currency Sinks, but also a Time Sink which forces you to play long to achieve something, while this might be considered annoying when it is an alt.
but considering that it is only 1 hour per day that you actually have to do something on your alt to keep the missions going I think it is a bad idea to change the reputation system OR the gear that you buy from it into acount of faction wide.
If a player has the time to grind on 1 character to gather marks for equipment then this same player also has time to keep the missions on various alts going. Grind for marks on Day 1 and 2, but start missions on alts on day 3.
If a player chooses to play with more character then he/she can maintain that person must choose his/her priorities. I have 2 characters... My priorites tell me to make sure both keep their rep.missions going constantly. Only when they are running will I allow myself time to do other things I want to do... It is all a matter of priorities. For me this is it, for others it might be racing new alts from 1-50 (FED) or 21-50 (KDF).
Rep and fleet are post-campaign leveling systems. If you want a supertoon, you do the work to level it all the way. If its not worth the effort to level your alts, then ... the alts arent that important by definition. Either get rid of the alts that you obviously do not have time for, or accept that they are going to be weaker than some other supertoons, or spend the 1 hour per day for 2 months and level it up.
"Please Cryptics--I want supermax toons but I dont want to level them" is all I'm hearing.
"Please Cryptics--I want supermax toons but I dont want to level them" is all I'm hearing.
Then stay out of the discussion if you're so closed-minded.
"Supermax toons?" Thanks for the laugh; most alts are going to be off-specs anyway. My tac escort is "supermax" enough. Months of re-grinding the same reputation bars is a higher barrier to rolling subpar alts than I'm willing to endure. I would enjoy rolling alts, but I'll never be enthusiastic enough to open my wallet up for them with the burden of repetitive reputation grinds hanging overhead.
I'm sure I'm representative of the average player in this. I don't understand your open hostility, or why you wouldn't want to find ways to facilitate more players to stick with the game longer. I understand even less why PWE/Cryptic/moderators would allow you to troll the forums with such anti-growth nonsense; you're literally attacking their bottom line, and you don't even have anything constructive to offer in the process (unlike most "haters," who I'm sure are hastily run off the forums).
but considering that it is only 1 hour per day that you actually have to do something on your alt to keep the missions going I think it is a bad idea to change the reputation system OR the gear that you buy from it into acount of faction wide.
I think the gear should be character bound, not account bound. It's just the reputation grind that's totally empty and meaningless after the first run through (and mostly meaningless the first run through).
If a player has the time to grind on 1 character to gather marks for equipment then this same player also has time to keep the missions on various alts going.
You're talking a few thousand marks versus months of regularly logging in.
I have 2 characters... My priorites tell me to make sure both keep their rep.missions going constantly. Only when they are running will I allow myself time to do other things I want to do...
That sounds like a terrible time.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Dear Wow devs. It's bad enough that I had to buy the Mists of Pandaria expansion but I now have to do multiple terrace of endless spring and heart of fire raids to eventually get the 5 piece tier 14 raid armor. And then because I have 8 characters I need to do it all over again and again for all of them too. Please fix this Wow devs.
I get the impression you feel that we are asking for a freebie of some sort. This is way off.
Between my 3 characters I have done well over one thousand eSTFs, I constantly turn in NP's and Omega marks for Dilith, yet still have over 5000 marks and 400+ NPs stock piled. I did the "work" for these items. If the Reputation lines were account based instead of character bound, then I could out fit my alts (and new romulan) with gear that I did the "work" for on other characters.
Without being a Troll, tell me why you feel this is wrong?
Dear Wow devs. It's bad enough that I had to buy the Mists of Pandaria expansion but I now have to do multiple terrace of endless spring and heart of fire raids to eventually get the 5 piece tier 14 raid armor. And then because I have 8 characters I need to do it all over again and again for all of them too. Please fix this Wow devs.
I have to agree with the OP and others in this thread. I have only one main character, and the thought of going through the grind two (soon to be three) rep systems again makes me not won't to start an alt. I have been debating whether I should buy the Legacy pack purely due to this reason. The expansion looks pretty exciting, and the Rom storyline is very enticing, but doing the rep system system again turns me off.
The rep system itself is okay, though not an experience I want to repeat on a new character. It would be nice if as a reward for hitting T5 on each rep system that it unlocked it on the account for your other characters. I'm trying to think why this can't be done, but I'm having difficulty seeing an obstacle. Doing so would not effect Cryptic's revenue stream, or mean that players will play less content. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but I'm sure it would go down very well with the player base, and who knows maybe encourage people to buy more C-Store stuff for there alts. Either way you would still have to grind for marks, so I don't see why not.
Between my 3 characters I have done well over one thousand eSTFs, I constantly turn in NP's and Omega marks for Dilith, yet still have over 5000 marks and 400+ NPs stock piled. I did the "work" for these items. If the Reputation lines were account based instead of character bound, then I could out fit my alts (and new romulan) with gear that I did the "work" for on other characters.
Without being a Troll, tell me why you feel this is wrong?
They are EXP for the rep systems. Why did you grind unnecessary EXP on a capped toon? Your bad judgement doesnt mean the system is broken, it just means you want a do-over.
There are a lot of trivial things in the game that should be bound to account or unbound for selling purposes, end-game reward items for end-game EXP are not one of them.
Hardly. In many MMOs top raid gear gives insane DPS, tanking or healing advantage compared to regular gear. In STO you barely even notice it. In fact you can complete every single encounter or fleet action in common gear.
That's the word I'd use too. Not giving your best, not having fun, simply 'work'
Except those numerous MMOs that sell account bound gear in reputation vendors because they though it would be stupid to make players do all that grinding more than once.
Actually, do you have a video of someone completing the No Win Scenario with all common gear?
Get rid of the 800 exp rep mission. Make the 2k a 5k and lots of the grind feel would be removed right there. Ive got 8 max toons, and only 1 has both reps to T5. Getting T3 on all isnt so bad but 4 and 5 on all *blows own head off* no thanks. And now we will have a 3rd rep? *curls up in a ball*
RP in MMORPG is pretty dead, very few people play MMO for the RP in RPG. They didnt want our fleets to have to grind a new romulan starbase, but grinding rep on all toons is good? Same story if you ask me. If its the same player devoting the time then its a non issue to make it account wide when you have to buy the gear per toon afterwards.
I have two characters fully leveled (tier 5) in both Romulan and Omega reputation lines. My third character is tier 2 in both reputation lines, I tried but couldn't keep going with the same grind fest my other two went through.
While my 3rd Character isn't badly equipped I feel bad taking her into eSTFs due to the fact that she does not have access to fleet gear or Omega rep items. With LoR around the corner I will have a 4th Character, who again will not have access to the Reputation items.
This brings me to my point, why not change the items from Character to account based? This would stop them from being sold, but you would be able to equip your lesser played characters well. The advantage is, when you feel like doing an eSTF you won't be feeling bad as the weak link.
The passive skills in the Reputation lines are worth doing them alone, but at least you would not "feel" forced to do so. If I could give my alt a full set of M.A.C.O space gear along with a full set of ground gear, I would have no problem dropping in on an occasional stf, and slowly she would advance in tiers.
In the long run this would be beneficial because with more well equipped characters, a player might end up purchasing ships for the other characters on an account.
For example my hardly used character is a Sci VA, if I had the equipment to justify playing her actively in eSTFs I would considering buying the Vista ship pack, because it might be worth while. As it stands I only concentrate on my two main, and only bother equipping them with new ships / items.
I agree with this opinion and support having the Rep system unlocks to be account wide.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
This brings me to my point, why not change the items from Character to account based?
Sounds like we are both having the same issue.
As a result of burning myself out, I ended up deleting four out of five of my level 50 avatars. My remaining level 50 avatar has reached T5 Omega and T3 Romulus. Approximately three days ago, I started up a new avatar. Once the new avatar hits level 50, I will not put it through the reputation system. I will join it up with a fleet, so I can work towards some gear.
Once the "Legacy of Romulus" is released, I will create a Romulan character. Upon bring the Romulan character up to level 50, I will not be putting it through the reputation system. Nor, will I join it up with a fleet.
My main avatar will be used for working on the reputation system, and all the other ones will just stall at level 50. I want to enjoy my playing experience, so I have decided that only one avatar will progress.
My main avatar's reputation system goals:
~ Reach T5 Omega
~ Reach T3 Romulus
~ Reach T3 Tholian
I have no plans on reaching T5 in the Romulus and Tholian rep systems.
I want to participate in other aspects of "Star Trek: Online", so I have limited my goals to certain tiers.
All the grinding is too much work for a casual player.
Although making them account based would solve a lot of problems, I don't see why we can't just go back to the way it used to be done instead of this TRIBBLE rep system. If Cryptic really need to give us the mega ownage unbalancing super weapons of the set bonuses, just add them to the gear! Fine, have the Romulan rep system, that at least makes sense but the Omega rep system? Why the hell? It was fine, leave it alone! -.-:mad:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
Enyone known if we will ever see 22nd century M.A.C.O. Uniforms and weaposn cause that would be a cool thing to add to the rep system at ter 4 or 3. If enyone knows if they are working on this plz message me :mad:
It is not a facepalm at all. It is a valid point. Every game where playes have multiple characters they make the same demand: let every character on the account benefit from 1 character's grinding. But games do not let you do that. They want each player in the game grinding each of those characters. Its how they fill up time with lack of end game content.
It is not a facepalm at all. It is a valid point. Every game where playes have multiple characters they make the same demand: let every character on the account benefit from 1 character's grinding. But games do not let you do that. They want each player in the game grinding each of those characters. Its how they fill up time with lack of end game content.
Most games I can think of have shifted to do this, actually.
If it was only the gear offered and not new traits I am sure many of us wouldn't bother with the Reputation system.
However the fact that they were included is the problem. I know I wouldn't bother if it was only gear, no large grind is worth any fancy gear. I'll stick with the stuff on the exchange.
Rep and fleet are post-campaign leveling systems. If you want a supertoon, you do the work to level it all the way. If its not worth the effort to level your alts, then ... the alts arent that important by definition. Either get rid of the alts that you obviously do not have time for, or accept that they are going to be weaker than some other supertoons, or spend the 1 hour per day for 2 months and level it up.
"Please Cryptics--I want supermax toons but I dont want to level them" is all I'm hearing.
May I ask how many characters you run?
Are they all going through the reputation. Are you spending 1 hour a day for 6 characters? (1 science, 1 engineering and 1 tactical on both factions?)
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
May I ask how many characters you run?
Are they all going through the reputation. Are you spending 1 hour a day for 6 characters? (1 science, 1 engineering and 1 tactical on both factions?)
I have two toons that are locked with T5 omega and T4 romulan, and a third is going through it now. A fourth char, a true alt, is somewhere below level 30 and only being used for doffing and spot jobs--he does not need any of the end-game equipment and doesnt even need Mk X white gear. I have not decided if I will make a romulan (the only benefit I can see in it is the episode content), but if I do I will take him to T5 romulan and at least T2 Omega (console and cutting beam).
My opinion: If you have enough time to fully exploit multiple alts, then you have enough time to work the end-game EXP on them. If you dont have enough time to fuly exploit the alts and are just flying them for giggles, then you dont need the end-game EXP items.
This game is already ridiculously easy to level everything very quickly. It annoys me no end to hear people begging to make it even easier when the only problem is their lack of planning and foresight on character management.
Comments
The grind only shows itself when you actually want to BUY an item that you have just unlocked. This will require you to not only start saving your dili, but also additional marks in addition to that one mission per rep. you normally do.
While it would make gameplay for alts a whole lot easier to have account or faction wide reputation collection... I think however that it would be a bad idea.
I would prefer another approach...
A discount which would be available for items which a previous character already bought.
If the 2nd character decides to buy something else he would be considered 1st buyer.
It would for example start with 10% and gets raised by 10% per character up to max 50%.
Example:
1st buyer: 0%
2nd buyer: 10%
3rd buyer: 20%
This would at least force alts to from a RP sence "prove" themselves to the Omega Task Force or Romulan Republic (by time grinding the rep.missions) while at the same time make it slightly easier for people with a lot of alts to buy items they had already bought.
I don't mind having to grind out marks for each piece of gear, but I have no interest in spending close to two months per character grinding out the same rep bars.
That doesn't bother me. I expect being required to put some effort into producing or acquiring gear. The current grinds associated with acquiring gear are fine; it's the pointless repetition of the reputation grind that's an issue for me.
Why?
Go troll someone else.
Off-topic: how do I report posts on these forums? I'm not seeing an option to anywhere.
If you got one character, it's not so bad. You can do what you want. But the more characters you have, the less fun it is, because you have to work to maintain those characters. Therefore, goes into the comments people have about STO being a "job".
Now if PW did make this an account unlock system, it might actually promote more play. Which could promote more expanding into different factions with more diverse type of play where every character could have a different story or playstyle. (And PW can literally profit by this, since they could sell more things in the Zen Store).
So in the end, it ends up Win-Win for everyone.
What I was saying still requires the same amount of "Grind" for each item, but it allows you to buy them on Characters already maxed out in the Reputation lines.
He wasn't trolling you. No need to defend yourself; there's regular support in this thread for account-wide reputation gains.
I've seen claims that the status quo is acceptable, but no actual defense of it. His line that "other people have reached the opposite conclusion" is one such empty claim.
These games generally have (various) Currency Sinks, but also a Time Sink which forces you to play long to achieve something, while this might be considered annoying when it is an alt.
but considering that it is only 1 hour per day that you actually have to do something on your alt to keep the missions going I think it is a bad idea to change the reputation system OR the gear that you buy from it into acount of faction wide.
If a player has the time to grind on 1 character to gather marks for equipment then this same player also has time to keep the missions on various alts going. Grind for marks on Day 1 and 2, but start missions on alts on day 3.
If a player chooses to play with more character then he/she can maintain that person must choose his/her priorities. I have 2 characters... My priorites tell me to make sure both keep their rep.missions going constantly. Only when they are running will I allow myself time to do other things I want to do... It is all a matter of priorities. For me this is it, for others it might be racing new alts from 1-50 (FED) or 21-50 (KDF).
"Please Cryptics--I want supermax toons but I dont want to level them" is all I'm hearing.
"Supermax toons?" Thanks for the laugh; most alts are going to be off-specs anyway. My tac escort is "supermax" enough. Months of re-grinding the same reputation bars is a higher barrier to rolling subpar alts than I'm willing to endure. I would enjoy rolling alts, but I'll never be enthusiastic enough to open my wallet up for them with the burden of repetitive reputation grinds hanging overhead.
I'm sure I'm representative of the average player in this. I don't understand your open hostility, or why you wouldn't want to find ways to facilitate more players to stick with the game longer. I understand even less why PWE/Cryptic/moderators would allow you to troll the forums with such anti-growth nonsense; you're literally attacking their bottom line, and you don't even have anything constructive to offer in the process (unlike most "haters," who I'm sure are hastily run off the forums).
This is not good gameplay. It does not benefit Cryptic, PWE or the community to rely so heavily on it.
I think the gear should be character bound, not account bound. It's just the reputation grind that's totally empty and meaningless after the first run through (and mostly meaningless the first run through).
You're talking a few thousand marks versus months of regularly logging in.
That sounds like a terrible time.
I get the impression you feel that we are asking for a freebie of some sort. This is way off.
Between my 3 characters I have done well over one thousand eSTFs, I constantly turn in NP's and Omega marks for Dilith, yet still have over 5000 marks and 400+ NPs stock piled. I did the "work" for these items. If the Reputation lines were account based instead of character bound, then I could out fit my alts (and new romulan) with gear that I did the "work" for on other characters.
Without being a Troll, tell me why you feel this is wrong?
-facepalm-
The rep system itself is okay, though not an experience I want to repeat on a new character. It would be nice if as a reward for hitting T5 on each rep system that it unlocked it on the account for your other characters. I'm trying to think why this can't be done, but I'm having difficulty seeing an obstacle. Doing so would not effect Cryptic's revenue stream, or mean that players will play less content. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but I'm sure it would go down very well with the player base, and who knows maybe encourage people to buy more C-Store stuff for there alts. Either way you would still have to grind for marks, so I don't see why not.
There are a lot of trivial things in the game that should be bound to account or unbound for selling purposes, end-game reward items for end-game EXP are not one of them.
Wasn't unnecessary I've gained hundreds of thousands worth of Dilith from both the eSTF rewards and turning in the NP and Omega Marks.
Sounds like you got the intended usage then
Actually, do you have a video of someone completing the No Win Scenario with all common gear?
RP in MMORPG is pretty dead, very few people play MMO for the RP in RPG. They didnt want our fleets to have to grind a new romulan starbase, but grinding rep on all toons is good? Same story if you ask me. If its the same player devoting the time then its a non issue to make it account wide when you have to buy the gear per toon afterwards.
I agree with this opinion and support having the Rep system unlocks to be account wide.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
As a result of burning myself out, I ended up deleting four out of five of my level 50 avatars. My remaining level 50 avatar has reached T5 Omega and T3 Romulus. Approximately three days ago, I started up a new avatar. Once the new avatar hits level 50, I will not put it through the reputation system. I will join it up with a fleet, so I can work towards some gear.
Once the "Legacy of Romulus" is released, I will create a Romulan character. Upon bring the Romulan character up to level 50, I will not be putting it through the reputation system. Nor, will I join it up with a fleet.
My main avatar will be used for working on the reputation system, and all the other ones will just stall at level 50. I want to enjoy my playing experience, so I have decided that only one avatar will progress.
My main avatar's reputation system goals:
~ Reach T5 Omega
~ Reach T3 Romulus
~ Reach T3 Tholian
I have no plans on reaching T5 in the Romulus and Tholian rep systems.
I want to participate in other aspects of "Star Trek: Online", so I have limited my goals to certain tiers.
All the grinding is too much work for a casual player.
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
i mean we could go back to the old stuff when it was simple!
Most games I can think of have shifted to do this, actually.
However the fact that they were included is the problem. I know I wouldn't bother if it was only gear, no large grind is worth any fancy gear. I'll stick with the stuff on the exchange.
May I ask how many characters you run?
Are they all going through the reputation. Are you spending 1 hour a day for 6 characters? (1 science, 1 engineering and 1 tactical on both factions?)
I have two toons that are locked with T5 omega and T4 romulan, and a third is going through it now. A fourth char, a true alt, is somewhere below level 30 and only being used for doffing and spot jobs--he does not need any of the end-game equipment and doesnt even need Mk X white gear. I have not decided if I will make a romulan (the only benefit I can see in it is the episode content), but if I do I will take him to T5 romulan and at least T2 Omega (console and cutting beam).
My opinion: If you have enough time to fully exploit multiple alts, then you have enough time to work the end-game EXP on them. If you dont have enough time to fuly exploit the alts and are just flying them for giggles, then you dont need the end-game EXP items.
This game is already ridiculously easy to level everything very quickly. It annoys me no end to hear people begging to make it even easier when the only problem is their lack of planning and foresight on character management.