Tanking strategy/build

dernead

I have a few questions, and am interested in your thoughts and advice.

I'm running an Odyssey Operations ship with transphasic cluster torpedo fore, two transphasic torpedoes aft, and tetryon beams elsewhere. My strategy when trying to tank is to stay primarily broadside using beam overload or beam fire at will (depending on the situation), emergency power to weapons, and... I can't remember the other - gives energy weapons a bonus to shield penetration, whenever CDs allow. When cluster torpedo is off CD, I swing around and hit with it, then swing around and fire a torpedo spread aft, then return to broadsides.

It doesn't seem very effective, however. Usually I wind up second in threat generation - right behind the escort who (bless his little heart) seems to do just slightly more damage than I can out threat. I have the threat generation ability maxed, but seemingly to little good.

So my first question is: Is there something I should know about threat generation in this game? Some trick I'm just not picking up on? I will say this: I can sometimes pick up enough to pull agro if I seperate my chevron, but the loss in shield power makes me wary of doing so. Or should I not concern myself with that? Currently using the Assimlated MK X set, if that makes a difference.

My next question: Having finished loading all my beams out to MK XII very rares, my next goal is replacing my torpedoes. Given my general playstyle, I'm not quite sure what to go with, and I'd like your thoughts. I'm leaning either plasma or chronitron. How often does the AoE from Chronitron actually help in tanking? Also, I'm considering going to one or two bays fore and making the other slot(s) beams. Given my general strategy, would this be a detriment to my tanking ability?

Thank you in advance for your advice! Hope to see you in-game (assuming my lag issues are resolved... )

dernead

skollulfr wrote: »

afaik the chroniton proc doesnt work if you use t:s or t:hy.

if you are there to tank, and in a cruiser, kill your dps goodbye, tank cruiser is ticklebeam or dead. so stick to tac teams in your tac slots & heals of your choice elsewhere.

though seeing as you are asking about threat generation.... if you are going pve in this game, forget tanking. you need dps.

So an attempt to hold agro is an exercise in futility in STO? If so, perhaps I should reassign the points I have in threat generation...

And thanks for the information on Chronitron. Plasma it is

djdamc

dernead wrote: »

So an attempt to hold agro is an exercise in futility in STO?

Is tanking necessary in this game? Most certainly not... Is it completely futile? I would argue - I can say that from my personal experience carrying bad pugs seems to be a lot easier in a tanky cruiser than an escort... And a good cruiser-tank can make an escort's life a little easier... The most important issue with tanking is that surviving damage in a cruiser is easy, drawing aggro is a lot harder, so don't be surprised if you find out that you're supposed to work on your dps mostly as a tank...

skollulfr wrote: »

you can throw points into threat control, but those are points that may be spent better elsewhere, unless you want to get +threat consoles from embassy.

outside that, an escorts dps will take aggro off a cruiser in team pve, and that isnt helped by npc's that instead of being challenging, just have a million hp and lol-u-die-now insta kills where best-block-no-be-there is just a better option.

i switched my engie over from cruisers to fed escorts & havnt looked back.
though i did get my tac into a mirror vo'quv carrier... its actually quite the tasty bit:D

I'm wondering why so many people have the following statement hard-wired into their brains: "Cruisers are bad, Sci ships are bad, you will Escort us, resistance is futile!".
It is possible to make a cruiser useful in PvE but it seems to me that most people judge cruisers by looking at really bad players and then compare them to above-average escort players (i'd like to emphasize I really mean above-average*, not just extreme pr0 981623986k dps 0wners). Then you come to the conlusion that cruisers are "terrible, bad, unplayable, noobish"... Is that fair?

*According to my PUG parses the average Joe's escort doesn't break the 5k dps threshold, and the average cruiser is below 3,5k

theodrim

Well, with the modicum of cruiser experience I have thus far...

First, forget beam overload. When broadsiding, overload's energy drain is just too much to keep your damage up. The damage you lose from five beams firing at much-reduced power outstrips what you gain against a single target with overload. Stick to chaining FaW. Also, torpedo powers are a bit lackluster by comparison when you're turning in and out to chuck torps between broadsides.

One thing I'd suggest at least trying to see if you like it, is matching disruptor beams with APB. In an Odyssey, you have the room to pull it off if you use the Lt. Cmdr. universal slot for a tactical officer without compromising the ability to use tactical teams and FaW chains. That's a goodly amount of debuffing, which helps yourself and your teammates.

And, forget tanking. There are two types of incoming damage in PvE: the super-heavy hits that one-shot you regardless, and middling attacks you can shrug off. The former comes from cubes, gates, "boss" type enemies, and the latter is everything else. Where "tanking" matters is, for that, against the latter and not the former; even good escort players can get overwhelmed by swarms before they destroy them all, whereas you in the cruiser are fine.

Let the escort players eat the insta-kills; for you, slow and steady wins the race. In exchange, hold off the swarms long enough for the escorts to destroy them.

reginamala78

theodrim wrote: »

And, forget tanking. There are two types of incoming damage in PvE: the super-heavy hits that one-shot you regardless, and middling attacks you can shrug off. The former comes from cubes, gates, "boss" type enemies, and the latter is everything else. Where "tanking" matters is, for that, against the latter and not the former; even good escort players can get overwhelmed by swarms before they destroy them all, whereas you in the cruiser are fine.

Actually the right build can tank even those big ugly hits, even the high-yield torps, and still put out enough constant damage to keep the aggro focused on themselves (with Threat Control or consoles of course; not gonna out DPS a tac in an escort). You won't be a monster gunship, but you'll hit hard enough to carry your weight, and make things a cakewalk for the guys who show up in Tac Kumaris and the like.

dalnar83

Actually, a tanking escort for PuGs is much more durable. You die to 250k crits in cruiser anyway, so no point to resist that, but the evasiveness of escort is huge boon. My Steamrunner atm is awesome tank in PvE, but that is going to change with next expansions and some passive heal nerfs.

djdamc

dalnar83 wrote: »

Actually, a tanking escort for PuGs is much more durable. You die to 250k crits in cruiser anyway, so no point to resist that, but the evasiveness of escort is huge boon. My Steamrunner atm is awesome tank in PvE, but that is going to change with next expansions and some passive heal nerfs.

How often do 100k+ hits occur in ESTFs (unless you count in HY torps, Donatra's biogenic field or Queen's Aceton Radiation)? FFS, people keep bringing up the random and ridiculously high crits even though their chance for occuring is very low. Your argument can be compard to this statement: "travelling by plane is pointless and should be forbidden because when a plane crashes most don't survive"... Where's the logic in that?

xiphenon

Join KDF. Claim your battle cruiser today. Get the tankyness of an fed cruiser + damage of an escort + agility like a fed science ship. Be happy.

dalnar83

djdamc wrote: »

How often do 100k+ hits occur in ESTFs (unless you count in HY torps, Donatra's biogenic field or Queen's Aceton Radiation)? FFS, people keep bringing up the random and ridiculously high crits even though their chance for occuring is very low. Your argument can be compard to this statement: "travelling by plane is pointless and should be forbidden because when a plane crashes most don't survive"... Where's the logic in that?

You are right. But that's just perception, because I only die to those. So they seem like happen often. But my point was rather, it does not matter what you fly, you cannot tank 250k crits in any ship.