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DEM1 worth it?
shookyang
Member Posts: 1,122
I'm curious to know if a Fleet Defiant + DEM1 + DEM doff + 2-piece Borg weapon set is worth it on an all-energy build (all cannons, except for the Cutting Beam).
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Post edited by shookyang on
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I, personally, wouldn't. If you wanted the same effect, slap on the kinetic cutting beam and the assimilated console. It's procs are random, but they happen pretty frequently and you get the same weapon power effect.
Just my two cents.
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Just trying to get more consistency with full weapon power with higher bleedthrough without having to resort to batteries.
http://www.stowiki.org/Marion_Frances_Dulmur
But even then, the benefit is not immediately useful enough to give up one of your VERY few Eng healing slots.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
How is BO stacking an exploit? Sorry if someone paying attention to timers and cool Downs is to much for you.
im so sure BO with the Marion doff is WAD. bypassing the limitation that makes it balanced and all.
I do agree that stacked BOs is a completely legitimate tactic, I don't really see a problem with it.
That's really hard to quantify Drunk.
For one thing, it's only an 8s benefit. So it's very clearly not designed as some extended weapon drain resistance mechanic.
8s is a burst damage window, and it's not the first time we've seen DOFFs added to create value around generally mediocre or under-performing BOFF powers.
I mean, what else exactly would be the major benefit of the DEM DOFF if not popping Beam Overloads inside that 8s window?
From my perspective, the DOFF system seems to have evolved almost specifically to add new angles on what was originally designed into the powers as a way to add functionality without redesigning the powers themselves.
I thought you'd actually like this particular interaction, it gives a nice build angle that even single cannon cruisers can take advantage of.
As a long term pvper i kinda find it surprising you think about it that way.
BO's and HYT's have always been able to be stacked. The cooldowns show this is pretty much intended. Ability duration 30, shared cooldown 15.
Before marion it was pretty much doable to achieve the same thing with a weapon battery in between.
So stacking 2x HYT or Spread isnt allowed either? Or? People have been using this to quite an extend especially on transphasic builds, even on alpha strikers.
Was your 100% Acc FaW cruiser and overcapping 125 by far so legit back in the days? Its all subjective.
Even when one takes into account the differences between a cloaking and non-cloaking user?
I figured Drunk was talking about the 3x BO...not the 2x BO...
...and yes, I like the 3x Torp stacks from cloak - I feel dirty doing it at times, but I like it.
Granted, 3x BO can be a problem, luckily most people that use stacking BO's dont purposely try to trigger 3 Bo's in a matter of seconds.
I am all for fixing this without making Marion totally useless.
But that's where a bunch of it started, no? Mini's posts about Marion and the Triple BO decloak?
That's where there's a difference, imo - regarding it - because of the cloaking aspect. If you're trying to build up 3x BO without a cloak, somebody's going to notice and there are a bunch of ways to TRIBBLE that up.
Cloaked though...you get the 3x BO with the decloak damage bonus. Sure, it takes skill and timing. You can still miss, etc, etc, etc. But yeah, I figured Drunk was talking about that.
Cloaking is cloaking.
Stealth/Cloaking has often been a problematic mechanic in MMOs with regards to PvP.
As far as I'm concerned it's fair game, even with this DOFF + BOs.
How long have we had people on these forums slagging off cloaking ships and battle cloaking as "useless"?
Is it a very powerful tactic? Yes.
Is it an unstoppable one? No.
Things will also be a lot more "fair" once battle cloaking ships are available to both factions, even if the amazing power of full uni BOFF layouts is not.
Speaking of the Tribble side of things with LoR...
T2 Nukara Passive...2.5% DEM.
T4 Nukara Passive...APC-Offensive.
Nukara Particle Converter (whatever it is, can't look right now) console...+10% Accuracy for Beams.
20s buff from EPtW instead of 5s, allowing it to be more easily worked in.
Yes, there's the loss of the GDF though.
Also, consider some of the fun that will be added from the various Refit/Retrofit consoles and their 2pc set bonuses, eh?
LoR...LoR...what's that curse? May you live in interesting times? Yeah, LoR is going to be interesting times...
its more of what i dont like, hyper yoyo spike, the most possible. i planned out a 2 DBB 2 quant escort that only attacks by spiking both and throwing it all down range at once, but it was just seemed so cheap, so i didn't go through with it
i dont like it on principle, like a LOT of things you CAN do in game. so much so that i consider it an exploit, systems guys dont seem to care that its a workaround to a built in disadvantage in the original ability balancing. you can say that about a WHOLE lot of things now too. those workarounds, some far more powerful and impactful then others. go ahead, have your fun, i dont approve of it though.
cloaking does very little to make an attack work better. in my feds, i execute out of nowhere alphas all the time, the fog of war is as effective as any cloak. not seeing it coming is not seeing it coming. sure it does a bit more damage, but that tends not to make TOO much of a difference, unless you get a string of crits. battle cloak is an awesome escaping tactic though.
my over caped 100% acc FAW tac cruiser, lol, it would be an underpowered as any other beam array ship now. i was a pretty low end pvp'er back then, and it was a crutch, but i didn't complain about lol FAW being nerfed, i knew it was op. at least the game was working how i thought it should work, cruisers as tactically powerful as their size should dictate. im not saying it was healthy and balanced then, i dont want the game to be back exactly like that. those cruisers shouldn't do a net of 0 damage though...
There's the DEM ability which adds a fixed amount of damage that bypasses shields for directed energy attacks.
There's the Nukara Enhanced Shield Penetration (which was 5%, but they dropped to 2.5% I believe - prepatching and can't double check right now (heck, completely reinstalling Tribble since the prepatch fails at ~62%)) which causes directed energy attacks to ignore a percentage of shields.
There's the Omega Graviton Amplifier (2.5% Energy/5% Projectile proc) which does a fixed amount of kinetic damage (751.4) to the hull ignoring shields (as well as resitances, buffs, debuffs - it's a fixed amount).
Ok, but you did achieve highest damage in a Cap'n Lulz tho :P
/sarcasm off
So you are fine still with being killed by 2 BO's and some quants tossed into your hull?
That's not exactly true.
Decloaking has its own built in Ambush +damage bonus, and on top of that Subterfuge BOFFs increase that damage.
In the current metagame where spike kills are the only way to reliably to crack through massive passive resists, heals and cross-healing support, every little bit counts.
The fog of war might work on some opponents, but not all of them. It's gotten to the point where in my standard Escorts I don't alpha until it's literally time to strike and go for it.
Otherwise there's a hefty chance the alpha will just be nuked off (unless MT or Naz is the other escort, they'll always SNB them instead! :P )
I don't have a PvP ready BoP, but I'm sure I could arrange a demonstration with one of the guys in the fleet that do on the actual power of an decloak alpha strike build.
We've actually had multiple parties, repeatedly, request to not allow this type of build in Premade PvP matches.
You know, the place where everyone for years has been saying BoPs are completely useless.
Thats why im so looking forward to the rommies, it will have to be accepted by the community wide pvp players now that decloaking ambushes are going to be king, and they will definately serve the purpose of increasing that spike damage even more. No more KDF QQn no KDF on team we only want 5v5 fed v fed.
Another factor has always been, surprise. If you cannot see your opponent APA'ing up you cant immadiately nuke it off, and also you can surprise atatck someone with or without subnukes in that case the killcount can go to rapid acceleration
The Subterfuge Trait no longer provides a percentage-based increase, but instead provides a large increase to the "Starship Stealth" skill of their captain.
+100 / +150 / +200 for ranks 1, 2, and 3, respectively.
All ranks of the Subterfuge Trait have gained a Defense bonus.
+1.25% / +2.5% / +3.75% for ranks 1, 2, and 3, respectively.
The Stealth Bonus and Ambush Bonus from having multiple Bridge Officers with Subterfuge does not stack, but the Defense bonus will.
I have yet to pickup a Subterfuge BOFF (waiting on Embassy to hit T3). Does it say on the cloak skill bar what the decloak damage bonus is with the Subterfuge on? Or does it still say 15%? If it changes, how much?
Unless there's some evidence to prove otherwise, I'll stick with the release notes.