A question on Plasma Weapons/Plasma Build

nyxadrill

Hi captains!

I've been kicking around the idea of a plasma build on an escort for my main tactical captain for a while now. Time to pull my finger out and get it done!

My question is this: Whats best, Fleet plasma weapons or Romulan Reputation Store weapons?

Let me just state that this will be built on an Armitage HEC along with the Romulan plasma torpedo and the elite scorpions. I'll most likely use the Romulan Zero-Point console as well (or whatever its name is ) so any advice on the correct choice of consoles would be appreciated.

I was comparing the Fleet DC's and DHC's which all seem to cap out at the same plasma damage and DPS but with varying modifiers [acc]x2 etc. whereas the Rom Rep Store weapons seem higher on DPS.

I'm undecided which way to go so what's your experience/feeling/opinion on these?

Any one have a build to recommend?

warpangel

Romulans used to be better before, when fleet weapons were available only with a single [Acc]. Now that you can get both in [Acc]x2, its a trade-off: fleet weapons do more damage (being ultraviolet and having [Dmg]x2 in addition to the [Acc]x2) at the expense of missing the disruptor proc. Fleet weapons are also cheaper on dilithium.

Definitely get fleet DHCs. Turrets do less damage anyway so the trade-off for the disruptor proc is better there. Its more up to personal preference. If you have excess fleet credits, the fleet weapons are still cheaper, though. I'm currently using Romulan turrets, because I already had them from before the [Acc]x2 fleet weapons were added.

deianirrah

Personal opinion: the Elite Fleet weapons are currently the best (PvE) weapons in the game. Advanced Fleet weapons are good - but can be on par with the weapons You can get from the Romulan Reputation system. The Romulan weapons use the plasma and the disruptor proc - and I personally like Disruptors most as the entire team does profit from reduced resistances on a target. Then again, You trade the additional proc for another weapon attribute. For PvE, weapons with one [Acc] attribute suffice entirely if You have put something in the Starship Targeting Systems skill. The [CrtH] or [CrtD] attributes would be my next choice. For PvP, You will need the most [Acc] You can get, though - and Plasma or slow moving torps will not be the best choice of weapons.

If You do plan to use the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo, You might want to get the entire set. Even though the Experimental Plasma Array is a beam weapon, it is well-worth it as it does not consume weapon energy to fire and gets a nifty skill from the set. Same goes for the Zero-Point Energy Conduit console. In addition to the set bonus, it does add to critical chance (and a bit to all energy levels). Admittedly, placing the beam array in a front slot on a DHC build would be a waste and using an aft slot will reduce Your front damage a bit so You will have to maneuver more to make use of it.

Use the Hyper-Plasma Torpedo in the front slots against slow or static targets and You should find them going down rather quickly (especially with Torpedo: High Yield).

Regarding builds: I usually have a look at the skill planner search section and look for the particular type of ship:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/search.php?faction=Federation&career=Tactical&ship=Heavy+Escort+Carrier&action=Search

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/search.php?faction=Federation&career=Tactical&ship=Fleet+Heavy+Escort+Carrier&action=Search

and use these for inspiration.

*edit*

Tried myself at a build idea - by no means a claim on a perfect build. I left out the weapon attributes - I personally only do PvE so I'd go for one [Acc] with some [Crt...].

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=advhescortpla_0

Oh - and yes, the Embassy Sci consoles might be worth looking at.

vesolc

If you use embassy sci consoles, rom weapons win over fleet ones. STF that is.

warpangel

vesolc wrote: »

If you use embassy sci consoles, rom weapons win over fleet ones. STF that is.

Embassy consoles don't do anything with Romulan weapons that they don't do with any other plasma weapon.

nyxadrill

deianirrah wrote: »

For PvP, You will need the most [Acc] You can get, though - and Plasma or slow moving torps will not be the best choice of weapons.

Sorry I should have said this will be a PvE build. I very rarely do PvP

deianirrah wrote: »

If You do plan to use the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo, You might want to get the entire set. Even though the Experimental Plasma Array is a beam weapon, it is well-worth it as it does not consume weapon energy to fire and gets a nifty skill from the set. Same goes for the Zero-Point Energy Conduit console. In addition to the set bonus, it does add to critical chance (and a bit to all energy levels). Admittedly, placing the beam array in a front slot on a DHC build would be a waste and using an aft slot will reduce Your front damage a bit so You will have to maneuver more to make use of it.

Yes! I forgot the experimental plasma array! I have one already. I got hold of it a while back when I first thought of trying a plasma build. I'm not adverse to putting it forward as I often team a dual beam bank with cannons. I find it suits me.

I'll definitely try the set then. Thanks for the build examples too! I'll pour over them with interest!

Thanks for the advice folks its very much appreciated.

theuser2021

Basically the difference will be with the Romulan plasma and fleet plasma will now be the dmgx2 vs the disruptor proc @ 10.5%.

In my humble opinion the disruptor proc is way better than two extra damage modifiers (remember dmg is the worst modifier in the game by a significant margin). Plasma was already a good pve modifier and the disruptor proc to go along with it makes it a potent raw dps weapon. Now if they only had a weapon that had the plasma, disruptor and antiproton proc you'd have the ultimate pve dps weapon.

Romulan plasma also looks a little nicer being a deeper shade of green plasma instead of the cyan color but that's just personal taste.

Of course the one downside is that Romulan plasma will cost you 32k dilithium each (cheaper than spiral weave disruptors, but still very expensive). Compare that to the fleet 10k dilithium and 20k fleet credits.

mav75

For plasma weapons the embassy consoles (Plasma Infused [Pla]) add more damage:

Mk X +8.4% Plasma Energy Weapon Damage
Mk XI +9% Plasma Energy Weapon Damage
Mk XII +9.6% Plasma Energy Weapon Damage

praxi5

My opinion:

1. Definitely use DHCs. DCs are just fail, for a variety of reasons
2. Use Elite Fleet DHCs. They fire slower, so they have a lower chance of proc'ing. But they hit harder, so they'll benefit from the extra Acc (overflowing into CrtD) and Dmg.
3. Get the Disruptor proc on your turrets. They're always firing (and faster) so that you've got that extra chance to proc even when you're turning to come back into your fore arc. Turrets don't do the most damage anyways, so you're not missing much by losing a modifier.

... I don't know why that list is arbitrarily bold, nor can I get it to change back.

stirling191

Elite fleet weapons don't come in plasma. Did you mean advanced?

tpalelena

Yeah, use advanced fleet plasma DHCs and romulan plasma turrets.

That is awesome... I wish I had the dilithium for it, I usually just use fleet plasma turrets just to save the purple tiberium crystals.

imadoctornota

theuser2021 wrote: »

(remember dmg is the worst modifier in the game by a significant margin)

^ Very much so! Thank you for mentioning it! I keep hearing people say "Fleet weapons are the best!" But the above quote is the voice of reason!

theuser2021 wrote: »

Romulan plasma also looks a little nicer being a deeper shade of green plasma instead of the cyan color but that's just personal taste.

I agree completely, I just made an Odyssey build with them and both the Romulan and Borg gear sets. Puuurdy!

theuser2021 wrote: »

Of course the one downside is that Romulan plasma will cost you 32k dilithium each (cheaper than spiral weave disruptors, but still very expensive). Compare that to the fleet 10k dilithium and 20k fleet credits.

But, think of it this way, if you donated 20k dilithium to get those fleet credits (Dilithium to fleet credits give you 1:1), it's almost the exact same on dilithium

millimidget

deianirrah wrote: »

If You do plan to use the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo, You might want to get the entire set.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. The 3-piece beam active ability is nice burst, but on a 3m cooldown it's probably not enough DPS to compensate for slotting the beam in any slot. The zero-point conduit is probably worth using under any circumstance, even if you're not using any of the other two pieces.

stirling191

millimidget wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. The 3-piece beam active ability is nice burst, but on a 3m cooldown it's probably not enough DPS to compensate for slotting the beam in any slot. The zero-point conduit is probably worth using under any circumstance, even if you're not using any of the other two pieces.

The beam is a zero power drain weapon. For those ships who slot a single beam for subsystem targeting, or BO shield breaking it's not a bad choice.

millimidget

stirling191 wrote: »

The beam is a zero power drain weapon. For those ships who slot a single beam for subsystem targeting, or BO shield breaking it's not a bad choice.

I'm not saying the beam is worthless, it's just weaker than using another plasma DHC or turret. That 3-piece bonus is surely nice in PvP, though, but burst doesn't really matter in PvE; at least not single-target burst, at any rate.

szerontzur

Just going to echo the Fleet DHCs in front, Romulan turrets in back sentiments. You'll get the raw damage of the fleet DHCs with the disruptor procs of the turrets.


Really though, if you're going plasma, kinetic damage is where it is really at. Energy damage consoles don't modify the plasma fire procs like the Kinetic ones do. Also, there are enough different kinds of plasma launchers to make a full torpedo boat work. Plasma torp boats have a very different playstyle though, and I wouldn't recommend them for pvp.

doffingcomrade

praxi5 wrote: »

They fire slower, so they have a lower chance of proc'ing.

FYI, this is false. It was debunked in testing awhile back (I don't have the link, but feel free to search it). DC and DHCs have exactly the same rate of weapon proc.

praxi5

doffingcomrade wrote: »

FYI, this is false. It was debunked in testing awhile back (I don't have the link, but feel free to search it). DC and DHCs have exactly the same rate of weapon proc.

Really? Something must be borked then - the only point to using DCs is to get the extra procs/shots for DEM. Other than that, they're terrible compared to DHCs when it comes down to DPS/power efficiency/etc

deianirrah

doffingcomrade wrote: »

FYI, this is false. It was debunked in testing awhile back (I don't have the link, but feel free to search it). DC and DHCs have exactly the same rate of weapon proc.

I think You were thinking of this?

http://deepspacealliance.blogspot.de/2012/08/game-mechanics-revealed-dual-cannons-vs.html

twoblindmonks

So much bad information on these forums.

Do NOT use advanced fleet weapons if you are looking for the highest DPS in PvE. If you have 2 or 3 rare romulan embassy boffs, so your crit chance is up around 14 or 16% (Also with all the crit modifying consoles), you need to get CrtD mods. You cannot get these mods on advanced fleet weapons as far as I know. CrtD as a mod FAR outstrips everything else in parses when you have 14-16% crit chance.

So, I believe the highest DPS setup would be Mk XII Purple Disruptor DHCs with [CrtD]x3. The romulan weapons MAY come in close if you set it up with the romulan 2p set bonus and romulan embassy consoles, the extra dmg from those may make up for the lack of a [CrtD] modifier.

But, I repeat, do NOT get advanced fleet weapons. They are really junk for PvE. Elite fleet weapons are another story, my fleet isn't T5 yet so I haven't been able to use them yet.

shar487a

millimidget wrote: »

I'm not saying the beam is worthless, it's just weaker than using another plasma DHC or turret. That 3-piece bonus is surely nice in PvP, though, but burst doesn't really matter in PvE; at least not single-target burst, at any rate.

The Romulan Experimental Beam Array's Hyperflux firing mode is nothing short of insane when it comes to delivering damage when it counts, dealing 5k+ / second of shield-ignoring damage for 10 seconds, or 50k+ damage depending on how well you stack resist debuffs. It's the closest thing to an "I win" button for placing 1st in Fleet actions and CE when used correctly.

shar487a

twoblindmonks wrote: »

So much bad information on these forums.

Do NOT use advanced fleet weapons if you are looking for the highest DPS in PvE. If you have 2 or 3 rare romulan embassy boffs, so your crit chance is up around 14 or 16% (Also with all the crit modifying consoles), you need to get CrtD mods. You cannot get these mods on advanced fleet weapons as far as I know. CrtD as a mod FAR outstrips everything else in parses when you have 14-16% crit chance.

So, I believe the highest DPS setup would be Mk XII Purple Disruptor DHCs with [CrtD]x3. The romulan weapons MAY come in close if you set it up with the romulan 2p set bonus and romulan embassy consoles, the extra dmg from those may make up for the lack of a [CrtD] modifier.

But, I repeat, do NOT get advanced fleet weapons. They are really junk for PvE. Elite fleet weapons are another story, my fleet isn't T5 yet so I haven't been able to use them yet.

Will Disruptors still out-DPS Antiproton weapons at 16% or greater critical hit rates?

I already use both Advanced AP and Elite Fleet Phaser weapons. Advanced AP hit slightly harder, but Elite Phasers regenerate shields with each proc. Elite Disruptors eat through shields faster, similar to polarized tetryon but better.

Romulan Plasma weapons work quite well, especially in PVE when both plasma fire and disruptor breach are present on the same target.

mattimeo97

shar487a wrote: »

Will Disruptors still out-DPS Antiproton weapons at 16% or greater critical hit rates?

Considering that you can actually readily obtain [CrtD]x3 on a set of disruptors, yes.

Ultimately, it's all up to whether you care about 'max DPS' in PvE content, since you can do everything passably well at endgame with common Mk X/Mk XI, and faceroll most everything with blue Mk XI vendor trash.

It just depends on how many seconds you want to shave off/how high you want to place in certain fleet actions.