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Heavy Escort Carrier Torpedo Boat HELP
warbound72488
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
Ok, So I hit VA on my Tac Captain recently and want to try out a non DHC tac ship, specifically a torpedo boat. I've played around with various configurations and am having trouble. I do not currently have the Borg Sets or anything as I just hit the cap, but I have kitted it out to start as best as I know how. The spaces I left blank in the following build are there to illustrate the pieces that I'm either unsure of or are currently occupied by equipment I got through leveling up.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=hectorpedoboat_0
I must say I like it, but I'm certain that I'm far from effective at present. It works out all right in STF's (where lots of things are missing shields). Would love some advice from more experienced players!
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=hectorpedoboat_0
I must say I like it, but I'm certain that I'm far from effective at present. It works out all right in STF's (where lots of things are missing shields). Would love some advice from more experienced players!
Post edited by warbound72488 on
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I would highly suggest you look at the other threads on torpedo boats. When done correctly they can do some very nasty damage. But as is you're currently using the wrong setup.
I would pull the quantum and tric torpedoes and replace them with DHCs. Since you're running tetryon with your turrets I'd suggest looking into phased tetryon DHCs (I think they came with the Tholian lockbox and are still available on the exchange) or Tetryon DHCs if you can't find any for a decent price.
You'll probably get more even damage if you replace two of your photon consoles with tetryon pulse generators.
You'll also want to pick up a Rule 62 universal console from the lobi store - it boots projectile weapon damage and gives a healthy increase power transfer rates and your flow capacitors skill, which in turn boosts your tetryon proc and anything else you do drain your enemy's shields or other power levels.
For your Tac Cmdr. BOff I'd have TT1, CSV1, TS3 and APO3. (You can't train TS3 but you can get Jem'Hadar BOffs with that ability if you run the mission "Facility 4028" from the Dominion FE. If you can't get that yet, swap TS2 and CSV2.)
Your Tac Lt. is fine as is, giving you good uptime on CS and TS. Use a second TT1 on your Tac Ens. slot.
Play around with your Eng. Sci BOffs but you'll obviously want at least one shield heal and one hull heal, HE if you're fighting anything that uses plasma.
I love that you're trying to do something unique with your ship. I hope this helps. Good luck and good hunting!
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
But Because there are two, they are actually hitting every 4 seconds and bouncing the cooldown back and forth between one another, correct? I did look for other Torpedo boat information but I didn't come up with very much. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?
Also...It's very difficult for me to decipher the abbreviated names for powers, so I'm not really sure about the changes you're suggesting lol.
Up front
Rommie torp, to spam plasma (can get up to 15 torps streaming out)
omega torp to fill the firing between CD of the rommie torp (0.5s CD)
Bio-neural warhead as my hard hitter (relatively cheap on exchange around 150-200k)
romulan beam for set bonus
back
plasma mines x 2
kinetic cutting beam for set bonus
In case anyone wants to say bad things about my build in the crystalline entity event i have gotten 1st 2 out of 3 time, and 2nd the rest of the time and 3rd place only once
Looking at ur setup i would move one of the photons to the back there no point having 2 up front if u also have quantum and chrono u should drop one of them and get the bio neural instead as it has a long CD and would have only marginal affect the firing of other torps and add a DHC as most have suggested, also u should look to getting the adapted MACO as u get +25% torp damage
the way to build an effective torp boat is to have 1 short CD torp (photon, omega or the ferengi one from lobi store), one medium CD (rommie, quantum, chrono, transphasic) and 1 long CD (bioneural, trico or TDD) u may also want to think about using mines.
as for boff u should aim to have 2 torps skill best to get HY3 or TS3, maybe get APO 2 or APO3 as well along with APB, u need to drop one of the TT1 (no point having 2 TT1 and ET3 as they share CDs)
These kinds of suggestions are positive, however, I am looking for something I can use now, not later. Let's try this.
I have No Lobi crystals, therefore I cannot purchase anything from the Lobi Crystal Store.
I am at 0 Rep for all Reputation markers, and therefore do not have access to the Borg (although I will), MACO, or OMEGA Sets.
I have very little interest in using Cannons, as I have 2 other escorts with cannons and am intrusted in trying something different.
I am not a min/maxer, so I do not particularly need the Highest DPS alternative. Fun is most important, reasonably effective is fine.
There are functionally two kinds of torpedo boats, hybrid platforms that maximize interplay between energy weapons and faster firing torpedoes, and pure missile boats, that focus purely on torpedo firepower.
Since you're not in a B'Rel, that means you're probably going to want to build a hybrid platform. Which means two photons up front (backed by three purple Projectile Weapon Officer doffs), with two DHCs or a DHC and a DBB.
Console wise, I'd go one photon + Adapted MACO 2-piece + 3x energy weapon consoles. It'll give you a good, well rounded output bonus.
be using a mine or bio? How many doffs for this? Thx
I have found the Intrepid to be the most effective torp boat. Nothing against escorts but escorts are much more effective with energy based weaponry.
Now for the torp boat to be effective you must have the ability to do damage between cooldowns. That is why a sci vessel is the better choice. A tac captain in a sci ship can bring a glove to the hand and increase the DPS output of a sci ship expontentially.
Example:
Forward 3 weapon slots: Breen Cluster Bomb, Harpeng, and torp of your choice.
Aft Weapon slots: Breen Cluster Bomb, Torp of you choice, Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam
At first you fire torp spread 2 as the three forward weapons fire you notice all three are on different cooldowns. Depending on your pushers [I prefer transphasic] you can enhance the damage of at least 2 if not all three weapons if you run the rapid reload transphasic torp.
Now the sauce for the goose....
Using jam sensors 1 allows you to gain about 2-3 seconds of cooldown without being fired upon. Using Viral Matrix along with Gravity Well slows and placates a enemy allowing a second strike. Next use scramble sensors to gain another precious few seconds of not being fired upon. Depending upon which consoles you have you can then do something unexpected like using a theta radiation console or subspace jump. The idea is to use the speed of the ship to stay just outside the arc of enemies using cannons as thier primary weapons. For beam boats fly in close and use a photonic shockwave while making a bombing run.
The idea behind the bombing run is that your forward weapons have launched and you go directly at the opponent. That way when you pass the opponent you aft weapons are readly to launch. Having the right doffs is critical for timing a bombing run to get the most out of it. So unless your opponet has shot down your torps he will have a second wave hit him at point blank range. This is why you need to run full engine power.
Also this ship is quite effective in stfs. When the Borg want to use the tachyon beams enmasse to take you down simply activate your ablative armor console that comes with the ship. Sure you have no shields for a few seconds but it makes the Borg expend thier attack on you rather than your teammates. When the console power is done your shileds return at 100%. Meanwhile since you are a torp boat your weaponry is unaffected by the use of this console.
Hopefully this will give you a couple of ideas to play around with when deciding which ship works best for you.
I use the breen set + transphasics; two breen cluster, 4 rapid or regular torps (depends on your doffs, purples are pricey), and 1 mine. Use dispersal beta 3 for the mine - you get 16 which is pretty sizable spam.
Tractor - use this while the mines arm.
2x emergency to shield
2x emergency to dampers
Things I'm still working out:
- both clusters up front, or 1 and 1? I like the latter for now.
- Full speed, boom and zoom, or knife fight? I can get kills by turning in close, but take more damage when I slow down.
- Is transphasic the best for this? It's nice and consistent, and the cluster bombs do amazing damage (esp to enemies that are close together), but the rommie torp is overpowered and it's a shame not to use it.
-Jeff
P.S. On my fed I use the defiant, sans cloak. It's so dang maneuverable that I can whip around, fire back torpedoes, then swing back and fire front torpedoes, all while trying to stay at 5-10 range, avoiding the close-in abilities.
FORE:
1 Photon + 1 Romulan Plasma Torpedo
3 - DHCs
AFT:
1 - Turret
1 - Kinetic Beam
DISH: Adapted MACO
ENGINES: Adapted MACO
SHIELDS: Elite Fleet Resilient
DOffs: 3 Purple Projectile Officers + 2 Purple Conn Officers (for Tac Team)
BOffs (Charal / Khyzon Layout):
Cmd Tac: CRF3 - CRF2 - THY2 - TT1
Lt. Cmd Tac: THY3 - CSV1 - TS1
Lt. Eng: RSP1 - EPS1
Lt. Univ (Sci): HH1 - ES2
Ens. Eng: ET1
Consoles:
Eng:
1 - Assimilated
3 - Neutronium
Sci:
2 - Field Gen
Tac:
4 Energy Weapons Console
I'd say you can change the Assimilated Module with a Zero-Point Console (if you're using Plasma Weapons).
It is my Torpedo Version of the Charal Escort (I think its better than the Normal Version due to its lesser energy drain).
Its obvious that the first strike would be 6x Fighters and a bio-neural warhead, as all can be launched to attack at 15KM.
That leaves you with a 3/3 weapon slots, that's familiar to most science torp boat users.
Firstly, ways of boosting firepower with your equipment. Unlike Energy Weapon TAC Consoles where it is ideal to consolidate your weapons into 1 damage type to reap higher bonuses with a dedicated TAC console (All Phasers, load up specialist Phaser Relays), it is not necessarily required for a Torpedo Boat. For a Torp Boat that will utilize several different damage types, it is actually ideal to get the generic torpedo dmg, the "Warhead Yield Chamber." That way, whatever torps you do load up, ALL of them get the damage boost.
Lastly is equipment sets. There's several out there that provide bonuses to a torpedo type: Breen Set with Transphasic, for instance. But taking the earlier paragraph into account, I highly suggest getting at least 2 pieces of the KHG (for KDF) or Adapted MACO (for Starfleet). The +25% generic Torpedo Dmg Bonus is nothing to sneeze at. Again, it amplified all torpedoes loaded up. This is a major boost to Torpedo Builds in general. Remember, at least 2 pieces of this set to get the bonus.
However, if you're just starting out at Endgame or are low in the Rep tiers, getting the Breen Set to at least get an extra Transphasic Torp boost is there. But the Breen Set does not make your ship tougher. Still, it does provide Transphasic bonuses.
Now, for the Hevy Escort Carrier, I can foresee this, even with the inclusion of the Photon Torp PDS console. It's doable since you are stacking up on generic torpedo damage mods.
FWD: Quantums / Hargh'Peng / Breen Cluster / Bio-Neural
AFT: Hargh'Peng / Breen Cluster / Quantums
CMDR TAC: TT1, HYT2, HYT3, APO3
LT TAC: TS1, TS2
ENS TAC: TT1
The Hargh'Peng, Breen Cluster, Bio-Neurals take no advantage of BOFF torpedo abilities. So whatever "standard" stuff you load up, they get the entire arsenal to play with in TAC BOFFs. They will have the option of concentrated fire on single targets with HYT or several with TS.
With the Heavy Escort Carrier, if you are absolutely insane, you can actually opt for a Aux2Batt build with Technician DOFFs to cut down on all BOFF ability cooldowns every time Aux2Batt is activated. There's a length thread about this in the PVP forums. Most especially if you are considering a dual Aux2Batt build, which has major pro's and con's if adopted with the HEC, because its LtCdr ENG BOFF station can actually do it. Namely, you are giving up survivablity and healing with this, most esp. with the dual Aux2Batt.
==========
Now, if you want to do a Torp Boat on a Sci Cruiser with its 3/3 weapon slots, I'd probably go with:
FWD: Breen Cluster, Hargh'Peng, Bio-Neural (Or substitute a torp of your choice in place of Bio-Neural, me I'd go with trusty Quantums)
AFT: Breen Cluster, Hargh'Peng, Quantum (for PVE, you can probably get away with a sort of Plasma in the aft... nothing says love by finishing a Torp run with a shot of HYT plasma at somewhat close range as your final shot)
Bio-Neural being included forward is nice with a Sci Vessel since you have the option of bundling up targets with Grav Well, and hitting alot of targets with 1 powerful shot. The thing with Bio-Neural though is the long cooldown. You COULD change it with a Tricobalt Torp. It's a less powerful, poor man's version of the Bio-Neural, and it isn't shielded, but the cooldown is less, though still noticeable. Another option is one of the fancy Plasma Rep Torps, esp. using HYT. But by and large, Bio-Neural going off in a cluster of targets is very, very nasty.
TAC BOFF selection is one of two things with SCI ships. They either have a good slot sucha s the Nova's LtCdr, but usually it's very limited to maybe an Ens TAC station at best. This mostly limited selection is very important in what you actually do load up.
If Lt TAC only (i.e. Intrepids): TT1 for shield assist and torpedo bonus + HYT2
If LtCdr TAC (i.e. Fleet Nova): TT1, HYT2, APO2
Hybrid TAC, Lt & Ens (i.e. FRSV): TT1, HYT2, then for Ens a TS1
With my take on a Sci Torp Boat, you are not spamming torps all the time. You're charging up for the main strike. Normal torps are there for opportunities. I also double slotted the Hargh'Peng and Breen Cluster for the increased likeliness of 1 of those for each type, either aft or fwd, are available for fire. But otherwise, I tend to save my firing. It's worked well for me in PVE and PVP.
I've done this with the KDF's somewhat Fleet Veranus and its turn rate of 11. Starfleet Sci vessel selection have some outstanding options out there that can maneuver a whole lot better, so presenting fwd & aft torps isn't far fetched.
There's also a nice little trick for Jam Sensors to blind the enemy towards you. It breaks if you go past a certain damage threshold on the target. You can use it before an attack run, but you need to practice the timing to for torpedoes to hit at relatively as close as possible. Or, you can use Jam Sensors as you're turning away and leaving from your attack run and try to make a clean getaway, but you need to stop shooting torps as you leave and prep for another run. The latter is the easiest way to use it.
also on hanger i would load upgrader danube runabouts to hold enemies while you hammer them with torps science consoles both point defense consoles.
You are no longer flying a Torpedo Boat, which is what the OP wanted, specifically for the HEC. The moment you throw any Energy Weapon onto a ship, it is no longer a Torpedo Boat.
I'm tempted by the following:
Front weapons:
Bio, Omega plasma, Hagh'peng, Qunatum
Aft: God knows, possibly transphasics as you'll be zooming past with shields up.
6x Fighters and Bio are launched at 15Km out to start the fun and games, then a fully buffed HY Quantum to get the shields down. Then all the rest gets dumped into the open shield facing, as you go zooming past the target you throw out Theta radiation or Warp plasma.
The thing is, it does leave me worrying about sustained damage, against PVE multiple targets, such as running a STF. Something the carrier wing would help out with.
Fwd: Bio, Breen Cluster, 2x RRTrans
Aft: Breen Cluster, RRTrans, Cutting Beam
Impulse: Borg adapted
Sheild: Breen
Deflector: Breen
Core: no idea currently using something that boosts EPS flow regulators
Tac Console: 2x Warhead Chamber, Rule 62, Borg Console
Sci Console: Shield Amplifier, Field Generator
Eng Console: Photon PDS, Theta Vents, Neutronium Armor
Boffs
Cmdr Tac: TT1, TS2, TS3, APO3
Lt Tac: HYT1, HYT2
Ens Tac: TT1
LtCmdr Eng: EPS1, RSP1, EWP1
Lt Sci: TSS1, HE2
Doffs
1x Purple PWO
2x Blue PWO
1x Tholian (Space damage vs Borg)
1x Flight Deck Officer (reduce cool down on releasing hanger pets)
Hope anyone could give me a few tips on how to make this better for PvE because I am right aweful at PvP