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Make Klingon Escorts equal to Fed Escorts
benovide
Member Posts: 397
Blah
Consoles
BOff slots
Hull Points
Even Weapon slots.
Level to level, KDF Escorts are inferior to Fed Escorts. All the way up to level 50, the only Escort KDF gets that's decent without being a Zen ship, is the Fleet Qin Raptor, and even then, it's STILL inferior to the Fleet Patrol. Compared to Mirror Versions of the Fed Escorts, they are still superior.
Not equal.
Then when you go to level 50, and get Fleet Escorts, Feds only have 1 fleet Escort Retro that's worse/equal to the Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor. Samrow is even worse.
We get BoPs which are even bigger glass cannons than the escorts, making them less able to tank it out like Fed Escorts can. Then when you go to Klink Escorts such as the Raptors, even in the manner they handle, Fed Escorts are still superior.
It makes it pointless for KDF Raptors to even exist in this game.
Glass Cannon BoP (I love my BoP don't get me wrong) that needs another to fly with it (or that Fed Fleet Retro is going to slaughter it) or Cruiser.
VQ is decent, but over time it gets old, and pretty fast.
Essentially the only viable Escort Ship for the KDF without being a Zen ship, is the JHHEC, or the Temporal Destroyer. Qin Raptor is decent, but compared to even the crappiest fleet retro, fleet qin is barely able to even be remotely called an equal. It's irritating.
Consoles
BOff slots
Hull Points
Even Weapon slots.
Level to level, KDF Escorts are inferior to Fed Escorts. All the way up to level 50, the only Escort KDF gets that's decent without being a Zen ship, is the Fleet Qin Raptor, and even then, it's STILL inferior to the Fleet Patrol. Compared to Mirror Versions of the Fed Escorts, they are still superior.
Not equal.
Then when you go to level 50, and get Fleet Escorts, Feds only have 1 fleet Escort Retro that's worse/equal to the Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor. Samrow is even worse.
We get BoPs which are even bigger glass cannons than the escorts, making them less able to tank it out like Fed Escorts can. Then when you go to Klink Escorts such as the Raptors, even in the manner they handle, Fed Escorts are still superior.
It makes it pointless for KDF Raptors to even exist in this game.
Glass Cannon BoP (I love my BoP don't get me wrong) that needs another to fly with it (or that Fed Fleet Retro is going to slaughter it) or Cruiser.
VQ is decent, but over time it gets old, and pretty fast.
Essentially the only viable Escort Ship for the KDF without being a Zen ship, is the JHHEC, or the Temporal Destroyer. Qin Raptor is decent, but compared to even the crappiest fleet retro, fleet qin is barely able to even be remotely called an equal. It's irritating.
Post edited by benovide on
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Comments
That's the one thing that's actually, truly missing.
BoP's are not escorts, but they can be a very good match in a fight - they're just different, but very effective in their own right. Even individually.
Raptors vs escorts, yeah. There's a lack of choice on the KDF side of things, but I'd be perfectly happy if that were filled by some different types of Raptors. I love my Mirror Qin, for one.
However, there is the Garumba and the fleet Scourge, which effectively are escort-type ships. Very viable ones, at that.
I just wish the 3 different 5-tac console ships the Feds got would have one or two competitors on the KDF side of things.
Lets look at those 3 shall we:
Fleet Defiant. 3 ensign tac slots is horrible if you want to run a full cannon build like most. Not enough tanking slots for 2x epts, A2sif, TSS and HE. If you want to cloak its a 9 console ship. KDF still get their cloaks for free.
Fleet Advanced Escort. Only 1 lt. commander tac slot AND 3 ensign tac slots. Lt Com is the best slot for tactical powers so that is a major loss. See above regarding the 3rd ensign tac slot. Also if you want the MVAM console its effectively a 9 console ship.
Tactical Andorian Ship. Truely a glass cannon. Nearly no survivability from BO powers meaning a Tac captain in one of these spends more time dead than alive. If you want to use any of its special console you HAVE to use phasers and you are flying a 9/8/7 console ship. Also, due to increased power drain, a 5th front weapon is nowhere near as big a deal as people think.
Ok so sure the KDF should get a 5 tac console ship, but only if it cant cloak and gets no more than a single lt engineering Boff slot.
fleet scourge isn't too bad, I love my Guramba, but they aren't Klingon vessels in a sense. And you have to pay money for them.
Do you play KDF at all?
Yes I use the Garumba. Its special ability makes it a 10 console ship, its got the same layout as the best fed escort, all its missing is the 10% hull and shields you get for being a fleet ship.
But by all means, give it a 5th tac console. Then it will be the best escort in game. 5 Tac consoles and the best BO layout. Insane. :eek:
@seekerkorhil: Oh, I'm aware of the trade-offs these ships make, definitely. I'd just really like to have the option, and would expect a KDF-variant to have its downsides too. Maybe a new Nausicaan crossover between a Raptor and their own shipyard - offensive, no cloak, Raptor-style layout, decent handling?
Also, while I see the weak points on the FAE, it does potentially have the single highest turn rate of any ship, with the MVAM module, if I'm not mistaken. I don't own it, but beta vector on the FAE must make it move like an ADHD squirrel on PCP. I'd still like to try that thing, if I get a chance/some leftover funds :P
My biggest issue with the Raptors is the turnrate. Really. It's 1-2 turnrate below the average Federation escorts. That alone makes it difficult to dogfight with a Federation escort. The only other issues are the 5 tac console options and the lack of overall choice. Having 2-3 raptors/destroyers to pick from would be great. If Cryptic wants to make money off of KDF ships, the best ships to release right now would be raptors/destroyers, instead of battlecruisers.
If I had my way, raptors wouldn't exist at all. We'd have BoPs with raptor hull and shield stats, battlecloak, and universal boffslots. That would actually compensate us for not having a ******n science ship line. We'd have a ship that could REASONABLY pull off both the DPS role and the Sci Boat role, and the KDF not having a dedicated science ship line wouldn't be so annoying.
Escorts
Science Ships
Fleet Ship Discounts
Cosmetic Variety
KDF has better
Cruisers
Raiders
Carriers & Pets
Consoles
Each side has strengths and weaknesses. Isn't that where all the 'uniqueness' arguments come from?
Not a one!
You have a point here. As reginamala indicated above, each faction has its strengths and weaknesses. Though in the case of the KDF, having weaker attack ships doesn't jive with the mentality. The Federation strengths should be in versatile science ships (which they have) and durable/sustained DPS cruisers (which they have). They should have the edge with science and engineering versatility in general. Them having the edge in escorts ultimately doesn't make sense from the Federation point of view.
I think that is a bit unrealistic. The only really good sustained damage cruisers we have are the Excellsior and the Regent. KDF cruisers have a very large edge in their boff layouts as well as how the ships actually fly. I think every Fed cruiser captain would kill to get something as simple as +1-2 turn rate buff.
The gap between top escorts and top raptors is not that great that the gap between cruisers and battle cruisers.
Galaxy-X is prime Fed battlecruiser...and we both how it compares to KDF.
bug, recluse and timeship user,
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
No the torkhat isn't a cruiser it's a selfish battlecruiser unable to heal anyone. I hate this kind of ship, designed for solo gameplay. I have one but barely play it. We have enough battlecruisers.
And yes, the KDF deserves some more raptor options. The fleet scourge doesn't look bad stats-wise but it's not a raptor and i want my kdf to fly a kdf ship. I like the krenn destroyer, it's a nice ship, but it's not aggressive enough to my taste. A 5 tac console raptor with 17-18 turnrate is what the faction needs (= many players want here).
Even if i'd love a new design with a special console (or even a raptor pack), here are two possible fleet ships :
http://www.stowiki.org/Qorgh_Raptor
http://www.stowiki.org/Pach_Raptor
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Oh yeah, that extra 0,5 turn rate, 2 tac console less, lance that always miss and lt.tac station max and extra cloak console instead free cloak
Yeah the Torhkat isn't the best cruiser for a team healer, but is the best one in an STF or when pugging, kerrat, or cap and hold. THe D'kora and Galor might be better healers, but they aren't ideal healers either for premade teams they usually use Recluse, Oddy or other cruisers that can run tss3 if they don't have a Recluse.
I didnt say they don't need raptor options, just was pointing out the somraw is good when earlier people were saying all the KDF raptors were junk. So we do have one that is like a Fleet patrol escort, we also need one that is more tac heavy with 5 tac consoles, and also one that has a Lt Cmdr sci like the Fleet advanced escort.
Otherwise, accept that some KDF whiners' stupid arguments about faction uniqueness actually cuts both ways.
This faction uniqueness schtick is bulldung, this entire Klingon-Federation War is an Undine ruse, so why they hell are we still segregated?
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Yes fleet somraw is a good raptor but it is under kumari pack (95k hit console , 5 fore & 5tac) or MVAE (with latest patch has a 31 turn rate ?! in beta mode and 5 tac consoles) .
I would love a kdf escort with a bigger bop skin with 5 tac consoles or 5 fore weapon slots and at least 20 turn rate .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
It's not perfect until you want battlecloak for it as well... :rolleyes:
It differences that I enjoy. Let thefeds have the better escorts. I enjoy the KDF having the better cruisers suited for combat.
I dont expect some feds to stop the "unfair" cry for all things better than any other faction though. Regardless of how good they may have it, some always want more more to attempt to overcome percieved short commings.
R.I.P
-The patch announcing a buff to its shield mod was a lie. The real value went down by a small margin.
-Like the norgh it has no windows thanks to a bug that will never be corrected because it is a KDF ship :mad:
-Its hull indicator shows a b'rel.
So yeha there are other much better raptor models with no fleet version available :
-SuQob (Qorgh refit) with only one bug (warp speed trail).
-Puyjaq (Pach refit), a very nice model with big cannons.
Don't worry
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U