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Bartasq' vs Dreadnought, my 2 cents
benovide
Member Posts: 397
So, after having the full set of Bartasq, using the Tactical (one with 5 tac slots) it performs identically to the Jem Hadar Dreadnought. ABsolutely identical, although given, I don't have attack ship pets on my Dread.
My Bartasq':
2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)
Full Borg space set.
HoH'SuS
Subspace Snare
Disruptor Autocannon
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils
My Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier:
2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)
Full Borg space set.
3 Ablative Armors
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils
2 Advanced Orion Slavers
Overall:
Both ships are grand flagships, TBH, if it wasn't for the buff of having all 3 Bartasq' consoles, they would be literally tied in capability.
But with the additional weapon of the Disruptor Auto Cannon, topped with Subspace Snare, and supported by the HoH'SuS, The Bortasq' is by all means the superior vessel. Both vessels turn at the same rate, etc. In PVP, using Plasmonic leach, subspace snare, borg assimilation beam, Point Defense System, I wiped out 3 Fed Escorts on my own. The HoH'SuS, is equipped with a jump module that puts it in the right position, with a Scatter Volley 3 for the Torps it fires, and 4 Quad Cannons, Rapid Fire 2, etc. On its own, your carrier pet (HoH'SuS) can solo a player escort all on its own. And I saw it do just that 5 mins ago.
The Dread with 2 hanger bays somewhat evens out with the HoH'SuS.
But ultimately, if I had to only have just one or the other, I would take the Bortasq' over the Dread any day of the year. When you fly it, you feel like the biggest bad*** of the Klingon Fleet. Overall, I'm heavily pleased with my purchase. It was more than worth it, and I got the first crit over 115k ever, in almost 2 years playing this game.
Wiped out an Oddyssey in a single volley of my Disruptor Autocannon, it is very close to power with the Guramba's Javelin.
Both ships are excellent ships, just with the bonus given via the mods, topped with the heavy feeling of being in a KDF Battleship, the Bortasq' feels like the superior ship of the two.
Just my 2 cents.
My Bartasq':
2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)
Full Borg space set.
HoH'SuS
Subspace Snare
Disruptor Autocannon
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils
My Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier:
2 Fleet Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons
1 Fleet Dual Cannon
1 Disruptor Quad Cannon
4 Disruptor Beam Array (fleet)
Full Borg space set.
3 Ablative Armors
Plasmonic Leach
Assimilated Module
Point Defense
4 Disruptor Induction Coils
2 Advanced Orion Slavers
Overall:
Both ships are grand flagships, TBH, if it wasn't for the buff of having all 3 Bartasq' consoles, they would be literally tied in capability.
But with the additional weapon of the Disruptor Auto Cannon, topped with Subspace Snare, and supported by the HoH'SuS, The Bortasq' is by all means the superior vessel. Both vessels turn at the same rate, etc. In PVP, using Plasmonic leach, subspace snare, borg assimilation beam, Point Defense System, I wiped out 3 Fed Escorts on my own. The HoH'SuS, is equipped with a jump module that puts it in the right position, with a Scatter Volley 3 for the Torps it fires, and 4 Quad Cannons, Rapid Fire 2, etc. On its own, your carrier pet (HoH'SuS) can solo a player escort all on its own. And I saw it do just that 5 mins ago.
The Dread with 2 hanger bays somewhat evens out with the HoH'SuS.
But ultimately, if I had to only have just one or the other, I would take the Bortasq' over the Dread any day of the year. When you fly it, you feel like the biggest bad*** of the Klingon Fleet. Overall, I'm heavily pleased with my purchase. It was more than worth it, and I got the first crit over 115k ever, in almost 2 years playing this game.
Wiped out an Oddyssey in a single volley of my Disruptor Autocannon, it is very close to power with the Guramba's Javelin.
Both ships are excellent ships, just with the bonus given via the mods, topped with the heavy feeling of being in a KDF Battleship, the Bortasq' feels like the superior ship of the two.
Just my 2 cents.
Post edited by benovide on
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Comments
+/- Both types have horrid turn rates, but the JHDC is slightly superior. 6 for the JHDC vs 5 of the Bortasqu. The margin is small, but the advantage is there for the JHDC.
- Bortasqu has 1 aft weapon more than the JHDC
- Bortasqu has BOFF layout options due to limited Universal BOFF slots.
- Tac version of the Bortasqu boasts the only Cruiser in the game with 5 TAC consoles.
+ JHDC has superior shield mod than the Bortasqu: 1.15 vs 1
+ JHDC has superior hull than the Bortasqu: 45k vs roughly 43k
+++ Bortasqu consoles, namely the full 3 pieces, are IMO quite bad and do nothing but Nerf the ship. The Jem'Hadar Command Interface that comes with the JHDC is a useful, strong debuff by itself. If the JHDC user is luxurious and has access for the full 2 piece bonus with the Jem'Hadar Escort Carrier's Dominion Coordination Protocol, it allows a very nice offensive and manevuerability boost to the entire team (Fleet Maneuver Gamma). Something the Bortasqu's consoles cannot do.
And that is just the ships by themselves. Next I open up the potential that the 2 hangar bays of the JHDC offer, which makes this contest trivial in competition.
++ JHDC offers the player different options to supplement capability, firepower to the player and his team. Since we're talking KDF, which IMO have the superior hangar pets in the game as a faction, you have the potential of loading up advanced versions of KDF specific goodies: Orion Interceptors with Chronitons, Slavers with quantum mines and always able to use beam arrays, Power Siphon Drones for energy draining, To'Duj fighters (numbers, fwd firepower, quantums).
+ Then there's access to non-KDF specific, neutral hangar pets such as the Jem'Hadar Fighters and Attack Ship NPCs. The latter being able to hit quite hard. Also having the option of using Elite Scorpion Fighters.
+ JHDC having option to mix and match between numerous, cheap fighters and fewer, stronger "frigate" type of hangar pets.
++ The Hangar Pets will operate regardless of direction the target is at, and even out of the carrier's weapon's range. This greatly helps in alleviating some of the issues of the carrier being so sluggish in turning. Regardless of where the target is at, the TRUE source of firepower of the carrier, it's hangar pets, can always attack the target regardless of where the JHDC is pointing.
+ On top of the fighters, the JHDC can contribute its own firepower to the fighters' efforts. With 4/3 fwd & aft weapon slots, 4 TAC Console Slots, Cmdr & Lt TAC BOFF stations, and if you're insane, the Universal Lt BOFF station, the JHDC is no slouch in firepower.
++ The hangar pets are more "spam" in the battle against the enemy, PVE or PVP. Think of them as a screen for your teammates, especially if lots of the smaller, cheaper fighters are flying around.
+ The Hohsus BOP console for the Bortasqu has a cooldown of several minutes once it gets blown away, which is quite easy to do. A carrier though can easily replace those losses in less than a minute, even far less with the cheaper fighters, and even less time with high Aux power.
Overall, with the ships only, it's fairly close. But since the JHDC is a full-fledged, 2-hangar carrier that is also the most powerful firepower-wise of all the Carriers in the game, the JHDC is by far the better option between these 2 ships. It's also not fragile like the Kar'Fi carrier since it has LtCmdr ENG BOFF station and 4 ENG Console Slots on top of its great hull and above average shield mod. The hangars offer so much more options, customization, and supplement to the team than the Bortasqu could ever do.
All this is why I fly the JHDC any day, any hour of the week over the Bortasqu set, which I purchased long ago.
I'm currently saving up for a JHDC.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
See the blue writing.
Not quite that much fear, but to each their own. Having both ships, I'm actually enjoying my Bortasq' more.Especially since I can deal an instant 90k alpha strike as an opening blow, subspace snare followed by assimilation tractor beam, point defense, with plasmonic leach, and 11k DPS overall with a supporting ship that has 10k DPS on its own as well that spam launches Transphasic Torpedos, overall I'm very happy with the Bortasq'.
With all 3 consoles equipped, I have essentially +19% Crit Chance with both projectile, and energy weapons, and +36% accuracy. (When you do the math of +12 Energy Weapon Specialization, and +12 Projectile weapon specialization, and +12 Targetting Systems)
Sounds to me like you've landed in some pretty bad pugs tbh
I run bops sometimes and no pet has ever even skimmed my shields so god knows how poor the escort must have been
Last time I rolled my defiant which was a long time ago now I took one of those things out with 3 turrets
You use a 5 tac console ship only to put a cheese console in the 5th tactical slot really????
Your running the disruptor quad cannons in PVP now there is a massive bright red error sign that flashed above your build as soon as you see that with no accuracy mod and no critd boosting the damage from them will be negligible at best I'm afraid
Plus your running the Borg shields and no armor how long do you expect to live? Just a worrying thought that's all
And whoever said interceptors can't be used on other ships except orion your miles off the mark their as long as the ship is purchased the fighters can be used on any vessel the player owns
I love your optimism for the ship as I for one am not a fan of lockbox ships purely down to the fact I don't have time to get the ec to buy one and I would love it if original faction kdf ships matched up to them but in truth they don't and in truth they never will as they are too much of a wallet filler for cryptic sad buy true
They are both fun, though I'd say the Dreadnought feels more capable in general. The Hoh'Sus doesn't compare to the actual hangar bays of the Dreadnought. I've never had mine solo anyone... not even close... and the respawn feels like it takes forever. Also, 90k burst from the autocannon? Again, I've never even come close to that in PVP.
The Bortasqu does have Cloak, though. It is entirely possible if you build for it to pull up behind someone, hit all your buffs, and utterly wreck them.
From my experience fighting with and alongside Dominion Dreadnoughts, i find it a decent ship, nothing exceptional. Doesn't tank as well as the Bortasqu', can't put out as much damage on its own, and i have seen no noticeable effect when it used its console abilities. The dreadnoughts hangars are one of the only appealing feature that i see. The wide variety of craft they can use ranging from the Attack ships, which do decent damage, to the siphon drones that can leave ships near defenseless if used right.
For overall combat capability in PvE, they're near tied, with the pets making up for the damage gap, but in PvP i don't think the Dreadnought could hold out quite as much. Neither of which are bad ships, though i am a firm believer that the Dreadnought shouldn't be a playable vessel, Starfleet nor the Klingon Empire would insult their own engineers so much as to use alien technology.
As my 2 cents, I'd choose the Bortasqu' as it is more canon, more believable, and more capable in most aspects.
The Hoh'sus BOP console is a total joke. It's weak for what it's supposed to be and nothing more than a decoy on a long cooldown. That thing does nothing more than any of the "frigate" hangar pets in the game. Not only that, when it dies, and die quickly it will in PVP, it's on a long cooldown, 3-piece set bonus or not.
And how long is that Disruptor Autocannon cooldown again? Several minutes.
In addition with the Disruptor Autocannon, it is a cannon, mounted on a ship with one of the worst turn rates of the entire game. If that does not alarm bells to you, especially in PVP, I don't know what will. Cannon heavier than single ones by nature dictate that you require maneuverability to maximize its use. They have very narrow arcs and you need good turn rate to more easily bring that firepower to bear on the enemy. The Bortasqu' is fail in that regard. Once you're out of that decloaking strike and on that long Subspace Snare cooldown, your target selection is problematic. In PVP, players move shifty, even cruisers. More so with the nimble Escorts and Sci Cruisers to a degree.
How long is that cooldown for the Subspace Snare?
So you're telling me, that only ONCE in every few minutes that the Bortasqu' Cruisers can shine?
To'Duj Fighter and JH Fighter value: Depends on the player. But between the two, I prefer the Adv.To'Duj Fighters.
Also, you are completely wrong about Orion Slavers and Interceptors being only usable on Orion Ships. I've used them on my Vo'Quv and JHDC, for example. Flexibility in action.
Again, even the most powerful frigate hangar pet NPCs take less than a minute to recharge after launch. And that is if you're pumping all available subsystem power to the other stuff like Weapons & Shields, which I frequently do with the JHDC. Even better recharge with more Aux settings, popping Aux Battery, or whatever means to temporarily boost Aux Power. Despite throwing everything my ship has into weapons and shields, I can still pump out a pair of powerful frigates than the Hoh'Sus BOP, even with the 3 piece Bortasqu' console bonus.
Also, the target also must contend with the hangar pets launched by the carrier as well as the JHDC's own considerable firepower.
And why the hell are you talking about the Bortasqu against KDF warships and fighters in the KDF Fleetyards forum in a KDF related ship thread? Last I saw PVP was mostly going against the Feds. And in Kerrat, you're against the Feds. And last I saw, KvK PVP is DEAD.
Also, you can try to keep swatting the flies of hangar pets, just as long as it takes your focus off the JHDC and its capabilities as a warship on its own.
A KDF player with the JHDC has options. Options that the Bortasqu' does not have. I'm sorry, I never believed in the Hoh'Sus BOP. It's a total joke.
Sorry, the JHDC is still a far better package overall for a KDF player than the Bortasqu'. You get a blend of firepower, survivability in hull / shielding / Eng Consoles, as well as the options granted by a bonafide, full 2 hangars. And the options are even larger with fancier hangar pets and if you have the Jem'Hadar Escort Carrier's console to throw into the mix. The Fleet Maneuver Gamma is a very nice TEAM offensive and maneuverability buff. And those consoles can only be used on Jem'Hadar warships, which the JHDC qualifies.
The contest was never close.
By the looks is what I was going by. And how I was going to set mine up. I mainly do PVE so it will strike plenty of fear in my opponents. Since I already have 2 Klingon type ships and 1 Breen. I thought the JHDC would make a good other ship to have. It will give me a new type of playing style as well. Since I don't have a carrier on any of my characters.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Umm.... Yeah........... About that Accuracy......... +12 to energy weapons specialization, that's a HUGE boost to my accuracy. I get my criticals well enough.
Borg Shield allows Assimilation Tractor Beam, for a ship as slow as mine, subspace snare and Assimilation Tractor Beam are huge to make it work. HoH'SuS isn't a carrier pet. There is no Carrier pet that compares to it.
2 minutes, 30 seconds for Disruptor Autocannon
2 minutes, 30 seconds for subspace snare
3 minutes 40 seconds for assimilated tractor beam.
Fleet Manuever Gamma removes all pre-existing buffs. If players ran Omega, Alpha, or Beta, they lose those buffs instantly. Majority of players have at least Omega, by doing FMG, you remove their ability to use it, and increase their cool downs.
Only difference between FMG and Omega, is that Omega you can time it just when you need it, FMG you can turn on at the worst opportune time, and not realize it based on where your teammates are, what they are doing, what they are trying to do, etc.
FMG also shut down my Plasmanic Leach, it cut my Tractor Beam off after I activated it, and the buff to speed and turn is useless when you already have guns on target. compared to Omega, it would have been much better to stick with Omega, than to focus on FMG.
KDF vs KDF pvp is far from dead bud. Fed vs KDF is more common, but KDF vs KDF is long from dead.
It plays mostly the same to the Bortasqu', only main difference being is the control of the pets, unless you have attack ship pets, I would go for the Bortasqu' for the firepower, and higher crits.
For the first time ever playing this game, I am getting crits in excess of 20k regularily.
And BTW, as far as "Armor", if the targets are through the shields, that armor isn't going to do much regardless. Ever do the actual MATH of how effective the armor is? You can have 120 resistance to Plasma via armor, when it hits the hull, In total, out of 1000 DPS, you only took off 240 DPS off the total hit. Tie that into a massive crit, or higher DPS, it wont make any significant difference.
Shield resistance on the other hand, is a HUGE deal. But Armor? Not an issue at all, if it gets through the shields, you're going to die or be near death regardless.
OH and for the record, I have 13 Dreadnought kills in my Bortasqu' now. All 13 different players.
a fight to the death duel between the two camps! Please post the video after it is finished.
Thanks for the input. However like I said already. I don't have a Jem Ship for any of my captains to use. And 2 Klingons already. I never had issues taking out NPCs with my ships. Reason why I like the JHDC is due to its a beastly carrier. And gives me 1 to use. Since I don't have one of those either. Heck I can almost settle for the smaller one. I'm sure what I get, it will still strike fear into my NPC opponents. Plasma does give me a fit at times, however my fights with that is few. Since I don't fight Romulans/Remans much. So I don't really try to get stuff for plasma fires. The ones I have issues is the Hirogen. Since theirs can go through shielding to an extent. Those are the closest to killing me the most, here lately. As I been patrolling the new Romulus Sectors.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
So you're making claimes on a ship you have no experience with?
I told that from my first post on this topic. Going by what I see on what I going to do with it. Yes, to me its better than the Bartasqu. From it, I get a Jem ship plus a carrier. Which will knock out both what I want in a ship. Going by the features to me is better. Since its more than just a cruiser type ship.
Sorry I guess I posted off topic then. Since this would been more of the ones used them both. Instead of ones getting ready to add one.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This is quite simply wrong.
-The Hoh'sus does not do that kind of damage. Vids and logs if are required if you want us to believe it.
-It's +12 to Projectile Weapon Damage, not Specialization
-Your math is wildly, incredibly wrong. The borg console and +12 to weapon specialization will not get you to 19%. I don't know how you can be so wrong on this since it's an easily found stat.
-A +12 to targeting does not translated to +36% acc.
Your claims are ludicrous and unsupported. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting it.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Nope, it says specialization.
Not damage
Specialization.
And nope, do the math on increases via the skill tree on each point.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Not most, just a few.
It's really a shame, even greater shame when people who watch bad players in the Bortasqu' feel it's worse than the dread. I have 17 dread kills in mine so far. (PVP) but I haven't gone up against a Dread using Attack Ships yet though, however.
And for some reason my game wont let me equip interceoptors on my VQ or Dread, or JHEC.
It's because you're on a server in a parallel universe. The math works how you wish it would there, too.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Do you have a Dread? I wouldn't mind fighting you in your dread at all, just let me know. I'll make you number 18.
It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the fo-er, code, but by our skills with the lightsa-um, I mean, starship.
K'Pow@RedRicky
x up in OPVP or pm.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
This entire thread is Dreadnought VS Bortasqu', so you're saying the Bortasqu' is worse than the dread, when you don't even have a dread, and you're saying the dread is a horrible ship? And saying the Bortasqu' is a horrible ship?
Troll much?
I'm also saying that I'm in game right now and you've postured up. 1v1 chump.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
When you actually get the dread, and the full Bortasqu' set, we will continue the discussion. Until then, you're just a troll.
I have the full Bort set, the Dread is awful. You issued the challenge.
P****ing out doesn't make your math any less wrong.
And I'll pop your failtasqu in any ship. You claim to kill escorts. Turns out the E in HEC is for escort. I'll be your huckleberry.
Don't walk back your tough talk. If you get the kills you claim, prove it.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
The discussion was Bortasqu' vs Dreadnought, You have no room to even discuss the two ships side by side, let alone to even comment on their abilites.
I sincerely doubt you even have a Bortasqu'.
The challenge was for you to jump into your Dreadnought. a challenge in comparison of Bort vs Dread. I could care less about your escort in a challenge when it has nothing to do with even the very title of the thread in comparing the two ships.