test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Feedback/begging: game AI

zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I started to level new toon for my tac/cruiser and got in time to play Mirror Event.

It was probably the greatest PvE mission I ever played and I had some fun. As opposed to: boring as hell when doing standard PvE missions.

The difference was the enemy AI. Those ships were actually using more then some HYT or TT from time to time. I was seeing Extends being thrown around, tractor beams used by anyone to keep my escort in place, some Engineering Teams healing damaged ships. Some Torpedo Spreads to get multiple targets, some FAW (thought I'm not sure about this). It was great.

Not that hard, though I managed to die few times (lt.cmdr 10-12 when playing this), but still great. Enemy ships doing something more then just being mobile target practice.

CRYPTIC: PLEASE, ADD THE SAME AI MECHANIC TO ALL CONTENT!

It would make the game so much more funny and interesting, instead being mindless pew pew. Please, pretty please!

pretty%20please%20cat.jpg
Post edited by zarathos1978 on

Comments

  • malakhglitchmalakhglitch Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I like the Mirror Universe Incursions. So much fun. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    For a good example of decent AI in this game, look at the D'Deridex and Mogai, which actually behave like player ships and make combat interesting. Too many people in this game expect their ship in PvE to be an I Win button. 4 million hull points does not make a fun fight. An active enemy with varying strategies and a range of offensive and defensive abilities make a fun fight.
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The problem is the mirror event doesn't use a better AI, they are still as dumb as the rest, they just have a much larger and more diverse set of ships able to randomly use abilities. The phaser proc is the deadliest tool in their bag of tricks, but an escort can wipe out a group of 10-12 in less than 30s.. which is beyond stupid.

    Smarter, tougher enemies with less quantity is needed.
    Delirium Tremens
    Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
    Nothing to do anymore.
    http://dtfleet.com/
    Visit our Youtube channel
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Would be very cool if the AI could learn your behavior and adapt to it. :D

    Not going to happen. EVER. :P
    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It would be extremely nice to see even a semi-decent AI in this game even if it didn't use a wider range of offensive abilities a sense of self preservation would be nice, would give science a PvE use as well.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • sasheriasasheria Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Not going to happen. EVER. :P

    probably not now, but maybe when processing power can come close to "AI" level (at least thinking level)

    to the OP:
    The main issue is how hard is it to code for a fight? In the past (at least from my classes) you can do a set of abilities and either randomly use one of the abilities or have a percentage of certain abilities going off or a combination of. the latter tend to be interesting (WoW does this) and sometimes fire off MULTIPLE abilities in sequence which can make some fight near impossible.

    Having the AI adapt to your ability in "real-time" will require some really fancy coding or true AI type would be harder. The processing power needed for the AI portion is not there yet (at least on the massive level. PC level for single player game is doable)
    To grow old is inevitable, to grow up is optional.
    Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    sasheria wrote: »
    Having the AI adapt to your ability in "real-time" will require some really fancy coding or true AI type would be harder.

    Yes but they have the capacity to build a decent AI as I found out back when HSN was in Tribble testing and the cubes put up some resistance and HSE Tac cubes actually put up a fight, sure a team with the right setup and composition could sail through them faster than they can today but it was fun at least and it proved that actually despite our in game experience Cryptic ARE capable of building a good AI.

    I (like a lot of others) called for that AI to be rolled out across every other NPC in game, sadly it ended up getting nerfed instead
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • mattimeo97mattimeo97 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The old D'Deridex Defender AI that accidentally slipped into the game for a while last year was pretty nice to fight against, since the thing could actually hit pretty hard, and would try to heal itself properly.
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mattimeo97 wrote: »
    The old D'Deridex Defender AI that accidentally slipped into the game for a while last year was pretty nice to fight against, since the thing could actually hit pretty hard, and would try to heal itself properly.

    Here's hoping for its return with LoR...
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sasheriasasheria Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Yes but they have the capacity to build a decent AI as I found out back when HSN was in Tribble testing and the cubes put up some resistance and HSE Tac cubes actually put up a fight, sure a team with the right setup and composition could sail through them faster than they can today but it was fun at least and it proved that actually despite our in game experience Cryptic ARE capable of building a good AI.

    I (like a lot of others) called for that AI to be rolled out across every other NPC in game, sadly it ended up getting nerfed instead

    you know what I think it would be cool that "could work" Final Fantasy XII (12) system. It is pretty much your standard If/then else system that you could script (upto 15 I think) this could give certain NPC to "figure out" on what to do and counter attack (if it is within their skill set)

    It could work.
    To grow old is inevitable, to grow up is optional.
    Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    sasheria wrote: »
    you know what I think it would be cool that "could work" Final Fantasy XII (12) system. It is pretty much your standard If/then else system that you could script (upto 15 I think) this could give certain NPC to "figure out" on what to do and counter attack (if it is within their skill set)

    It could work.

    Well I have said about that for a while as well, I mean, looking back at the FF7 NPCs even they gave an impression of self preservation
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • sasheriasasheria Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Well I have said about that for a while as well, I mean, looking back at the FF7 NPCs even they gave an impression of self preservation

    Yea. It will depend on the Engine and coding. I am no where NEAR the background understanding of STO programming, but I'm sure there has to be something similar in there. I would be surprise if there isn't. With such a system, it is WAY easier to code new enemies and tweak AI :)
    To grow old is inevitable, to grow up is optional.
    Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    People confuse smart AI and giving a ship a bunch of abilities. Friendly and enemy ships, on average use abilities terribly, which is why they end up getting vastly over powered abilities instead of coding the AI to use resists and heals in combinations to effectively heal, so we end up with super healing enemies. The major problem is you shift that to elite levels and the super healing abilities turn into invincible abilities.

    Romulan ships have used the tractor/viral matrix/high yield torpedo combo for a while, and if you bypass that they are hilariously bad one trick ships.

    The borg are no different, they follow a pretty poor pattern of throwing out big chunks of damage without any thought, with the exception of the tractor/cutting beam combos. But we know how to avoid those, and when we do we complain its too easy.

    The AI had no depth, there is no plan b. Why don't they have TT and EPtS up all the time? What if Plan A fails? Why can't they alpha strike us? Its mostly dev laziness, I guess that AI coding is "difficult" but just not spending the time to write a good one isn't an excuse either. The reality is shiny new ships you guys buy by the dozen, you don't buy an AI, so why spend time on it?
    Delirium Tremens
    Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
    Nothing to do anymore.
    http://dtfleet.com/
    Visit our Youtube channel
  • sasheriasasheria Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    nicha0 wrote: »
    People confuse smart AI and giving a ship a bunch of abilities. Friendly and enemy ships, on average use abilities terribly, which is why they end up getting vastly over powered abilities instead of coding the AI to use resists and heals in combinations to effectively heal, so we end up with super healing enemies. The major problem is you shift that to elite levels and the super healing abilities turn into invincible abilities.

    Romulan ships have used the tractor/viral matrix/high yield torpedo combo for a while, and if you bypass that they are hilariously bad one trick ships.

    The borg are no different, they follow a pretty poor pattern of throwing out big chunks of damage without any thought, with the exception of the tractor/cutting beam combos. But we know how to avoid those, and when we do we complain its too easy.

    The AI had no depth, there is no plan b. Why don't they have TT and EPtS up all the time? What if Plan A fails? Why can't they alpha strike us? Its mostly dev laziness, I guess that AI coding is "difficult" but just not spending the time to write a good one isn't an excuse either. The reality is shiny new ships you guys buy by the dozen, you don't buy an AI, so why spend time on it?

    Yea. I'm hoping that since the devs are putting in Romulan expansion, it would be nice to have update on their basic "engine"

    I remember in FFXII you could put in a state where PC can "detect" what buff is on the NPC and cast appropriate spells/counter spell.

    This could easily be done with current skill set and give the NPC a set of skills. You could even have "blanket attack AI" but use the skillset from the NPC you are fighting.

    I would think that Tactical enemies would have TT with some EPtS (I do see Borg does it once in a while) but it would be nice to see an enemy open up with a debuff (science enemy) seeing that escort preparing for Alpha strike ;)
    To grow old is inevitable, to grow up is optional.
    Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    sasheria wrote: »
    but it would be nice to see an enemy open up with a debuff (science enemy) seeing that escort preparing for Alpha strike

    Breen cruisers throw SubNuc w/in 10 seconds of the fight starting most times.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Sign In or Register to comment.