DPS test map

ursusmorologus

So ... lots of factors affect DPS testing, including number of players, number of ships, time between ships, etc. In order to remove some of these factors, we should look for a system that is able to provide a consistent test envirornment for a single player, and accurately reflects damage across a variety of ships. Two options for this, it seems, are to (1) find an existing system, or (2) design and build a system in Foundry for the purpose of DPS testing. There are a couple of maps in the Tau Dewa sector patrol mission that might be useful for the former, but they are not consistent and therefore not useful as a measuring stick. I think the latter will get us what we want, so I am looking for ideas and input on this.

Rough outline would be to have a couple of small squadrons (3 ships), with replacement spawns as each squadron was killed off. This would facilitate some leapfrogging, and would provide enough targets for BFaW to have meaningful data, without giving so many targets that it stacked the score on BFaW and CSV. Maybe start with small ships first, then progress in difficulty as the match progresses, so as to also reflect game play encounters, although some attention has to be given to detail here or else small ships will get overwhelmed and have to flee, which will hurt their numbers (or maybe that's realistic).

Any other thoughts? I have never done anything with Foundry so I dont even know what is an option or not.

projectfrontier

ursusmorologus wrote: »

So ... lots of factors affect DPS testing, including number of players, number of ships, time between ships, etc. In order to remove some of these factors, we should look for a system that is able to provide a consistent test envirornment for a single player, and accurately reflects damage across a variety of ships. Two options for this, it seems, are to (1) find an existing system, or (2) design and build a system in Foundry for the purpose of DPS testing. There are a couple of maps in the Tau Dewa sector patrol mission that might be useful for the former, but they are not consistent and therefore not useful as a measuring stick. I think the latter will get us what we want, so I am looking for ideas and input on this.

Rough outline would be to have a couple of small squadrons (3 ships), with replacement spawns as each squadron was killed off. This would facilitate some leapfrogging, and would provide enough targets for BFaW to have meaningful data, without giving so many targets that it stacked the score on BFaW and CSV. Maybe start with small ships first, then progress in difficulty as the match progresses, so as to also reflect game play encounters, although some attention has to be given to detail here or else small ships will get overwhelmed and have to flee, which will hurt their numbers (or maybe that's realistic).

Any other thoughts? I have never done anything with Foundry so I dont even know what is an option or not.

There are a number of "mass genocide" foundry missions where you can gun down loads of npcs currently (and get payouts - look for "Battleship" missions on Fed and "nebula" missions on KDF).

A straight-up "testing ground" is being developed (at least by one player I know) but it won't be out for a few weeks.

ursusmorologus

projectfrontier wrote: »

There are a number of "mass genocide" foundry missions where you can gun down loads of npcs currently (and get payouts - look for "Battleship" missions on Fed and "nebula" missions on KDF).

Those dont work very well for this, since (1) there is usually just a boss ship which does not allow for BFaW or CSV, and (2) there can be gaps between them, and (3) they often take damage from the previous ship's explosion. Multiple small squads leapfrogging each other are necessary.

stardestroyer001

The issue with having multiple small squadrons is that we, as Foundry authors, have no control over how many enemies spawn at any given time. It depends on the tier of ship, player rank, how many people are on your team, etc.

ussultimatum

ursusmorologus wrote: »

This would facilitate some leapfrogging, and would provide enough targets for BFaW to have meaningful data, without giving so many targets that it stacked the score on BFaW and CSV.

Your DPS on multiple "trash" minion type enemies is not going to hold true against single, hard targets.

Yes AoE damage is good for cutting through many of the missions in this game but it is no longer the same DPS output vs. a single hard target.


All off these threads posting "10K dps Ship X" using BFAW against dozens of small resistance-less enemies are just fooling themselves, because when you deal with a Borg gate with 1.5 million or 2 million hull you are no longer doing "10k dps".

"DPS" is also relative.

Does the engagement last 1 minute? 5 minutes? 30 minutes?




If you want to test your single target DPS for PvE, the best "laboratory" style mission is Starbase 234 in Tau Dewa.

It's also a good survivability check, because if you can't survive there on normal mode you should probably rethink your build.

sasheria

ussultimatum wrote: »

Your DPS on multiple "trash" minion type enemies is not going to hold true against single, hard targets.

Yes AoE damage is good for cutting through many of the missions in this game but it is no longer the same DPS output vs. a single hard target.


All off these threads posting "10K dps Ship X" using BFAW against dozens of small resistance-less enemies are just fooling themselves, because when you deal with a Borg gate with 1.5 million or 2 million hull you are no longer doing "10k dps".

"DPS" is also relative.

Does the engagement last 1 minute? 5 minutes? 30 minutes?



If you want to test your single target DPS for PvE, the best "laboratory" style mission is Starbase 234 in Tau Dewa.

It's also a good survivability check, because if you can't survive there on normal mode you should probably rethink your build.

This is true. my build is usually build around CRF instead of CSV. A single one to one (Borg queen) I can do pretty good damage or the The Vault: ensnare (I think that is what it is called) can do great damage (one to one) against that named ship. This is handy also in stage 4 in defending your starbase (killing those siegeships)

scrimpinion

ussultimatum wrote: »

Your DPS on multiple "trash" minion type enemies is not going to hold true against single, hard targets.

true, and that dps number could go either way.

My logged dps in an eSTF is way higher (even when I spend a good minute waiting to respawn if I die a couple times) than it is when I play, and take 1st place, in Starbase 24.

I think it's because some of my potential damage is lost when all my enemies are wiped out halfway through a firing cycle, because there are few to no targets that will last long enough to soak a full volley of fire.

trintrektron

stardestroyer001 wrote: »

The issue with having multiple small squadrons is that we, as Foundry authors, have no control over how many enemies spawn at any given time. It depends on the tier of ship, player rank, how many people are on your team, etc.

I think we can assume we are talking about solo level 50 captains.

ursusmorologus

My model system would be Carraya, right above Starbase 234. There are multiple waves, consisting of everything from Mogai with D'deridex, to squads of BOPs, even fighters too. Its representative of the variety of spawns you encounter in the game (EXCEPT for the big stationary targets like STF transwarp gates). It has enough cluster spawn for BFaW and CSV to matter, and it has enough large targets for CRF and BO to matter.

What I dont like about it is that it varies a lot (never quite know what you are going to get--I think sometimes it doesnt even have Romulans), and the NPC helpers are too helpful (they do not die when hull runs out). Also it needs a large target with massive hull points. So I would like to replicate something like that, in a single-player setting, would be my ideal.

bareel

ussultimatum wrote: »

Your DPS on multiple "trash" minion type enemies is not going to hold true against single, hard targets.

Yes AoE damage is good for cutting through many of the missions in this game but it is no longer the same DPS output vs. a single hard target.


All off these threads posting "10K dps Ship X" using BFAW against dozens of small resistance-less enemies are just fooling themselves, because when you deal with a Borg gate with 1.5 million or 2 million hull you are no longer doing "10k dps".

"DPS" is also relative.

Does the engagement last 1 minute? 5 minutes? 30 minutes?




If you want to test your single target DPS for PvE, the best "laboratory" style mission is Starbase 234 in Tau Dewa.

It's also a good survivability check, because if you can't survive there on normal mode you should probably rethink your build.

QFT and highlighted for what should become the standard.

sohtoh

I agree with ussultimatum and bareel, Starbase 234 is the best option. I used to use the Cardassian mission 'The Other Side' as proving grounds. There are lots of targets that constantly respawn. When Starbase 234 became known to me, I ran tests there and compared to them to 'The Other Side' and they were pretty much the same.

While for 'The Other Side' I would have to keep track of the time in the battle for the log, with Starbase 234; I didn't have to... it has its own timer.

ursusmorologus

Shooting the starbase doesnt reflect anything except shooting a handful of very large objects. Worse it lets you sit perfectly still without even having to move. Not representative of the game play at all.

ussultimatum

ursusmorologus wrote: »

Shooting the starbase doesnt reflect anything except shooting a handful of very large objects. Worse it lets you sit perfectly still without even having to move. Not representative of the game play at all.

Shooting a foundry mission of exactly the same enemies doing exactly the same thing, so you can test your DPS against them is no different.

The Tau Dewa missions that seem to be giving you issues as they aren't always the same, that's what you are actually trying to avoid specifically looking for a laboratory test.


So what you are looking for is in no way representative of the game play at all.

ursusmorologus

ussultimatum wrote: »

Shooting a foundry mission of exactly the same enemies doing exactly the same thing, so you can test your DPS against them is no different.

The Tau Dewa missions that seem to be giving you issues as they aren't always the same, that's what you are actually trying to avoid specifically looking for a laboratory test.


So what you are looking for is in no way representative of the game play at all.

what? I'm looking for something that reflects a variety of combat styles in a variety of scenarios, in a repeatable format.