test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Feedback› Federation Discussion

Eternal shield AND hard hitting!

kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Federation Discussion
I just had a dogfight, bug vs bug and i got thrashed pretty quickly.
I lasted for maybe 2 minutes.

Now i am not that very good at pvp but i have played it quite a bit since
game launch and i am an engineer in my bug ship. I have the MK 12
Jem Hadar space set, emg power to shields 1 x 2, sci team 1, scramble
sensors 1, reverse shield polarity 1.

Tac team 1 x 2. Omega 1 and 3. CRF 2, CSV 1, and dispersal pattern beta1
(the mine thing is an experiment though). Transphasic mine Mk 11,
Polaron DHC M12 x 4 and finally Polaron turrets x2

Now the thing i?m most puzzled about is that i could heardly scratch his shields
ever with my dual heavies. And i have seen in other pvp:s tonight that i can really
do serious dammage with the setup i have, except this guy!
Was he just that good at hitting tac team every time we faced eachother with our
dual heavies? No it didnt look as he balanced he?s shields much at all.Did he use
some uber-Maco shields? I couldn?t simply hurt him. He was using some kind of
polaron dual heavies and maybe a beam. No torps, no mines.

Any suggestions? I would be very grateful! :)
(sorry for the incoherency, it?s late here)
Post edited by kokobello on

Comments

  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Presuming this was 1v1, he was most likely using Elite Fleet Shields. Those things are insanely good at building up resists to your energy attacks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Presuming this was 1v1, he was most likely using Elite Fleet Shields. Those things are insanely good at building up resists to your energy attacks.

    Thank you! So i guess those are the one to aim for!? :)
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    His build aside, I noticed that you have no hull heals at all. That's going to be very bad for your survivability, the moment someone breaks through your shields. Also, as an Eng, you are not going to have the spike a tac would have. These two factors combine to reduce your own survivability, and render your own damage lackluster compared to his.

    Without tac spike or subnuke, you are not going to be able to get through Elite Fleet Shields.
  • kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well my reasoning is this- if they get through your shields , you are dead anyway so i have
    put a lot i n shield heals and thus had no hull heal. I had hazard emitter 1 for a short while tonight though..i maybe will try that some more.

    That aside, so you are saying that engineers can no longer kill anyone with fleet shields?
    If so, that is just sad.

    Thanks for taking time to answer my questions though! I appreciate it! :)
  • millimidgetmillimidget Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Presuming this was 1v1, he was most likely using Elite Fleet Shields. Those things are insanely good at building up resists to your energy attacks.
    Maybe the OP's enemy was running high shield power as well.
    "Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
  • kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    millimidget wrote: »
    Maybe the OP's enemy was running high shield power as well.

    Well i don?t know but he had almost un-dentable shields and put out a load of dammage.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    millimidget wrote: »
    Maybe the OP's enemy was running high shield power as well.

    High shield power is all well and good, but only goes so far, especially without the support of another ship. Sure you can make it work, I won't deny, but it only goes to a point.

    E-power to shields rotation, tac teams, maybe a TSS if they want to slot it. Add in all the stacking resists on Elite shields, it's quite easy to keep at least 50% resists on shields.



    To put that into better terms...

    Ignoring crits and misses for the moment; when you hit him with such high resists running...half your damage is going to be instantly gone because of the resists. Poof, no more damage. Of the remaining 50%...5-10% (if he's running Resilient shields or not) will be bleedthrough to the hull (and resisted accordingly based on hull resists). Then the remaining 40% or so of your damage will actually hit shields.

    So if you were doing 1000 damage a shot (made-up numbers of course), 500 of that just disappears immediately from resists, 50-100 of it will bleedthrough the shields, and the remaining 400 will actually hit the shields.


    Take into consideration the sheer number of bullets you're gonna be firing, and the resist procs on elite shields will build up VERY quickly. Then add in defense values so a good portion of shots will simply miss entirely...

    And you can see why he was such a tough nut to crack.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • djdamcdjdamc Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    High shield power is all well and good, but only goes so far, especially without the support of another ship. Sure you can make it work, I won't deny, but it only goes to a point.

    E-power to shields rotation, tac teams, maybe a TSS if they want to slot it. Add in all the stacking resists on Elite shields, it's quite easy to keep at least 50% resists on shields.



    To put that into better terms...

    Ignoring crits and misses for the moment; when you hit him with such high resists running...half your damage is going to be instantly gone because of the resists. Poof, no more damage. Of the remaining 50%...5-10% (if he's running Resilient shields or not) will be bleedthrough to the hull (and resisted accordingly based on hull resists). Then the remaining 40% or so of your damage will actually hit shields.

    I've not confirmed my observation (which I've noticed in ACT but as we all know ACT isn't a 100% reliable source of information) yet but it seems that damage-specific shield resists (for example shields' innate kinetic resistance) directly decrease the base damage of incoming attacks which means that they decrease not only the damage actually taken by the shield but also decrease the bleedthrough(and thus might allow you to go even higher than 80% total shield resist) and I suppose that this might apply to elite fleet shields' resistances too. As I've stated before I'm not sure if this observation is correct so don't take it for granted! Test it on your if you have the time...

    So if we count in the above observation and misses then this might actually explain how it's sometimes impossible to even scratch someone's shields.
  • thowasthowas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Meeting a good escort captain can be a very fun fight! Even if you loose you have gained something from it.
    Adapting.
    Always have atleast the 2set assimilated borg in your inventory.
    HE and ET is good to have also and atleast 2 EPtS and TT1 and TT2, not sure how the boff slots are set up on the bug.

    I have a fleet advanced shield, and in my opinion it is quite useless.
    The resists seems to not be working because my shields gets pealed off quicker than you can peal and orange.

    :-)
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Most likely he just used good shields / EptS + Tactical Team and/or distributed his shields in his keybinds. Also, check PvP section for these type of questions. Shipyard usually lacks the pvp perspective.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    thowas wrote: »
    I have a fleet advanced shield, and in my opinion it is quite useless.
    The resists seems to not be working because my shields gets pealed off quicker than you can peal and orange.
    :-)

    Not fleet advanced. Fleet elite with ResA or ResB is what we're referring to.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well yes timing and practice is very important but during my time in the game since open beta(with about 6 months away) i have never seen anything like it except when that double shielding was around.

    So this is not valid anymore? :

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=494711
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ive seen a bug take on 7+ ships and he sat still typing LOL in local. after about 4mins he blew up all the ships. i was cloaked watching the whole thing his hull never went below 100%.

    i have no clue how someone could sit still and tank so many without taking any damage
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    maddog0000doom wrote: »
    ive seen a bug take on 7+ ships and he sat still typing LOL in local. after about 4mins he blew up all the ships. i was cloaked watching the whole thing his hull never went below 100%.

    i have no clue how someone could sit still and tank so many without taking any damage

    .... it's a pity out of all those ships, im guessing no one was running phasers or no one had a science ship. one lucky shot with a shields offline or subsystem target: shields and he would have dropped rather quickly with no defense from speed.
  • dma1986dma1986 Member Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Wasn't Layla, was it? Because last time I flew alongside them in my B'rel, they were tanking 3 or 4 ships simultaneously in their JHAS.
  • kokobellokokobello Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    maddog0000doom wrote: »
    ive seen a bug take on 7+ ships and he sat still typing LOL in local. after about 4mins he blew up all the ships. i was cloaked watching the whole thing his hull never went below 100%.

    i have no clue how someone could sit still and tank so many without taking any damage


    This sounds rather fishy to me...refering also to my link in my post above.
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I've seen a few ships with impossible combinations of set powers (e.g. MACO and Borg full bonuses.)

    Makes me think the old Voldy bug can still happen somehow.
    _________________________________________________
    [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
    [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
    [D'Mented][D'Licious]
    Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
  • maddog0000doommaddog0000doom Member Posts: 1,017 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dma1986 wrote: »
    Wasn't Layla, was it? Because last time I flew alongside them in my B'rel, they were tanking 3 or 4 ships simultaneously in their JHAS.

    i dont remeber the ship name.

    but something must not be right no one is that good. it was a engineer bug if that helps any.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cha0s1428cha0s1428 Member Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Looking at your build, I would say that is most of the problem.

    CSV isn't all that effective against a single target, and he was most likely using CRFx2

    I would switch APO3 for CRF3, and run 2 copies of APO1, for starters.

    The DPS difference between CRF2 and CRF3 is astonishing.

    Drop the mines and get a cutting beam, but as you mentioned it was experimental. You can't really make use of the Transphasics without a lot of them or consoles + breen set.

    Your eng layout is perfect.

    Your science layout....needs work.

    Drop scramble sensors ASAP. Go for Hazard Emitters 1 and TSS2.

    Given that you lasted 2 minutes, I would say you did quite well. However, this build I recommend is probably close to what he was using. The only reason you survived as long as you did was rotate shield frequency, I'd wager.

    That being said, you will not be able to match his damage output as an engineer, but you can make your bug ship a tank.

    Depending on your shield power, with EPtS1x2, TSS2, jemmy shields (even advanced) and rotate shield frequency, you can attain well over 50%, possibly 60% (I don't feel like doing the math right now, hehe) damage reduction to your shields. I would also recommend switching to phasers or phased polarons. If you can manage to drop his shields with a phaser proc, you can really throw out some hurt with CRF3.

    Right now, the phaser proc or a completely transphasic build are your best options to counter elite fleet shields with your class and ship.
  • thowasthowas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    scurry5 wrote: »
    Not fleet advanced. Fleet elite with ResA or ResB is what we're referring to.

    Thought so, just mentioned my shields because i think they would be better than the old MACO shields.
    But they are not...
    Should have saved the dil for the Elite ones instead :-D
  • mustafatennickmustafatennick Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Maco mk12 on my defiant and elite fleet shields on my gumby I can say that the elite fleet shields are rivalled by nothing for survivability

    However the macos are a close runner up in the gumby I can tank numerous enemy ships with ease(depending on quality of ship and pilot ofc) and mixed with a bit of speed tanking this can be done for a long period

    In my defiant I can tank one or two people but not for as long and my shields aren't as impenetrable they will fall at some point where as the others are crazy good

    You must cycle epts x2 and get rid of science team keep a Boff in reserve incase you come up against some subnuc team that keeps killing you but if you run that as normal or as a main heal your going to die as it will TRIBBLE your tac teams up

    Im no bug expert but on all my engineer escorts/destroyers I run a dual beam bank with BO3 as there the best captain to use it on(except tacs ofcourse their good at everything)and it's the only reason to use nadion inversion and eps transfer

    A bug with an eng should be outlasting pretty much everything on the battlefield that's an eng captains job and a bug does everything better than everything else
    ----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Sign In or Register to comment.