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gdf nerf!50%!

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  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    If you were burning your GDF before 60%, you're a bad tac, anyway, and you should be grateful to this patch for helping you to use the power correctly. Now you can bind it to your spacebar and mash away for victory without burning GDF too early and wasting one of the most powerful abilities in your arsenal.

    Thanks for the patch, Cryptic. Buffs noobs without nerfing skill, which is exactly what this game needs with its ultra-steep learning curve.
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    :D

    I try to communicate my thoughts in the most constructive manner!!!

    And also, malak,

    I get it. You know, your standpoint, and I don't entirely disagree. If you are a tac pilot in an escort you should very well know how tough it can be to get a kill in on a competent science or engineering captain that has even a sliver of support form 1 other person.

    I am also constantly equally as shocked at the amount of people that think tac caps are ruling the game right now. The amount of healing and resists out there are downright absurd. This makes the Sci cap the MVP. And engineers about useless.

    That sounds about right, I found more lethality as a eng/support pvp'er with a wing than as an unescorted tac/escort but those support ships fall very quickly if I get them alone in my escort which IMHO is the way it should be.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well it never did make any sense that people where go down fighting out of cloak... and at 100% hull and 100% shields. :)

    I always held mine even in my bops... and in that case I guess some resistance is nice.

    Overall I don't think its really that big a g deal. Still I have to agree with the thinking that with out all the games healing tacs don't seem so scary.

    In any event... after this change... and if faw turns out to be ok again. I guess the captain types are mostly equal; with sci being more equal. lol :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    guriphu wrote: »
    If you were burning your GDF before 60%, you're a bad tac, anyway, and you should be grateful to this patch for helping you to use the power correctly. Now you can bind it to your spacebar and mash away for victory without burning GDF too early and wasting one of the most powerful abilities in your arsenal.

    Thanks for the patch, Cryptic. Buffs noobs without nerfing skill, which is exactly what this game needs with its ultra-steep learning curve.

    Funny. That's how I use my GDF at least half of the time.

    A GDF with a 60 sec uptime that you only get 10 secs out of because no one heals you and you go kablooey is also a wasted GDF.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Funny. That's how I use my GDF at least half of the time.

    A GDF with a 60 sec uptime that you only get 10 secs out of because no one heals you and you go kablooey is also a wasted GDF.

    It true... of course sometimes its nice at 10% to take someone with you to spawn. :) lol (looks like this nerf also reduced the dmg ramp a ton though... so I doubt it will do that anymore anyway)

    Besides what are the chances your not going to get it nuked off long before 60s rolls around anyway. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    In retrospect, I guess I was kind of using the power as it actually worked in game, instead of by using based on description.

    In my experience, with the yawning games out there... I would regularly get 30-45 secs of that GDF. And against inexperienced players, I'd always get all of it.

    I would use it as a minute long pressure buff the. Use APA and tac fleet to stagger or stack spike potential.

    Looking at it with my math brain, it only makes sense to use it in that manner.

    Now, I'm going to have to go back to an RSP on my escort. Just to use GDF.

    This is not a bad thing, but.... You know. Adds to the tankiness of escorts yet again.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Even with a "kill this guy!!!" Keybind. Yes. Yes, match after match kirks out there doing there own thing. Happens to me daily.

    When I'm with a panda team, this of course is no worry. But like I said,,, I'm trying to approach this from my pugger heart.

    Me pug 95% people.

    But do you see what you're saying then? You're saying that you should be able to kill the guy by yourself even though he has support. You're complaining that multiple people working together are preventing you from being able to kill one of them...

    ...I mean, c'mon.

    I don't Premade.
    I don't coordinated PUGmade.
    I don't PUGmade.
    I just PUG.

    Yeah, there are going to be the folks doing their own thing - Kirking it as you say. Instead of complaining about them doing their own thing, instead of complaining that one guy can't take out somebody that's being supported by other guys... have you ever considered targeting somebody that one of the Kirk's is targeting?

    It's kind of coming off as you should be able to kill anything you want and everybody should be doing what you're doing/saying...

    ...I mean, c'mon.

    It's one of those things, look around - see if one of them has made at least a half intelligent decision on what they're doing...but they're just not getting it done. So throw your experience and what you bring to the game behind that - bam, something happened. Then keep an eye out, did another one or did the same guy move on to another likely target - might they get that target if you apply a little pressure somewhere else to eat up some heals they might have gotten? Bam, something happened again.

    It's unlikely that the world is going to adapt to you...but there are plenty of ways you can adapt to the world.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Still though, it's not "fair" to give one of the Careers an ability with such a requirement. That outweighs, imho, the discussion about whether the description was wrong or the ability was wrong...outpaces the discussion on whether it should be Go Down Fighting or Attack Pattern Zeta...etc, etc, etc.

    It's a limitation being applied to one Career but not the others.

    It should either be an ability available to all Captains (thus, it doesn't single out the Tac) and the Tac should receive a different ability...or they should consider such a requirement on both an Eng and a Sci ability.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Switch Photonic Fleet and Scattering Field...

    ...the Captain 50% Hull Abilities: Go Down Fighting, Miracle Worker, Scattering Field.

    Why wait to use a resistance boost (Scattering Field)? It's better when you have full str and are taking high damage, than to wait until 1/2 your buffer is gone. Imo, the only crappy Sci Captain power is Photonic Fleet, and even then I've seen it spawn things that toss ES around for Feds.

    Personally, I prefer to wait for sub 50% GDF most of the time if for no other reason than a good evasive+ram boost. I'm on KDF, so it's easier to escape and get ~40sec of usuable abuse. The only issue w/it while pugging that I see is eager support ships won't let your hull get that low. It's hard to discourage a random pugger who's doing the would be the right thing 90% of the time constructively.

    Off topic, fyi, Horizon's a good player who likes to dogfight (like me), and good players normally could exploit the wholes in even supported pug ships. It's a matter of watching the repair cycels while maintaining enough pressure damage to keep the support ship busy. Elite Fleet shields have reduced the effectiveness of the inbetween spike pressure damage.

    The Fleet shields have made this more difficult imo, unless the player has KDF -resists Elite weapons. Personally, I've not made an effort to get these b/c they basically will vaporize any non-fleet shield. But, I can see why there are those that use them w/all the Elite Fleet shields running around.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    Why wait to use a resistance boost (Scattering Field)? It's better when you have full str and are taking high damage, than to wait until 1/2 your buffer is gone. Imo, the only crappy Sci Captain power is Photonic Fleet, and even then I've seen it spawn things that toss ES around for Feds.

    Wasn't a case of looking at crappy powers - was a case of looking at powers in a similar vein, so to speak.

    Go Down Fighting - as you're taking heavy damage, you do more damage.
    Miracle Worker - as you're taking heavy damage, you can heal some of that damage.
    Scattering Field - as you're taking heavy damage, you can become more resistant to that damage.

    That was the train of thought for implementing a 50% hull prerequisite on other Captain abilities so it wasn't just the Tac that had such a limitation.

    edit: They're kind of the "Plot" Abilities...
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    Virus I do all the things you just mentioned man.

    And yes, I do pug made a lot too.

    I am not complaining at all either. I think you are taking the points I was trying to make a little skewed friend.

    8/10 players that queue up usually only know what half of their ship is capable of. 1/10 actually fill a role in the team. So few premade vs premade matches out there. It's just the mindset.

    I can't tell you how many times I've sent my team out to focus on the healer as the pug shot caller. While I go after their lone escort. And then, so predicably, I get a team message or pm saying something to the tune of.... "Why did you call this target if you are just going to switch off and fire on someone else"

    Most players out there just don't have a clue... There is a reason I did that. I wanted you guys to target the actual competent healer on their team to suck up his team heals on himself so I could get the spike in on the only guy on their team doing damage... Which your target is healing.

    This, unfortunately, is about 3 feet above the average puggers head.

    So, yes, I use my 3 years of experience in many different ways. The above is just one example of how.

    The fact remains, i do not want the game to conform to me. Hell, I don't know what the hell these guys are trying to do with the game. Healing is so far over the top, that anyone actually attempting to take away damage potential sounds to me like that have no clue to how their game actually plays.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    The other day I made this:

    Armitage:

    Epte1,RSP1, epts3
    He1, tss2
    Tt1, bo2, crf2, apo3
    Tt1, apd1
    Bo1

    2 ap doffs, 2 damage control doffs, exocomp

    100% uptime on attack patterns, damn near 100% uptime on epts3

    Fleet elite shields.

    2 neutroniums

    Go full aux and pop a shields battery for hazards and TSS combo to counter my RSP cool down.

    Literally unkillable. And had the spike to flat out vape.

    Makes no sense that you can do that as a tac captain. None at all dude. Yes on the spike potential, of course.... But do you see all that defense? It's silly.

    Now you take away some of that builds stackable damage potential while he is in good hull health, and you put him in a very interesting predicament. One that the game does not do for Sci or engineering captains.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Hell, I don't know what the hell these guys are trying to do with the game. Healing is so far over the top, that anyone actually attempting to take away damage potential sounds to me like that have no clue to how their game actually plays.

    The game is too Yo-Yo.

    Yes, healing can be way over the top. Healing can also be meaningless. Damage can be way over the top. Damage can also be meaningless.

    How many fights do you have where you're bouncing in your chair, sweat on your brow, heart racing, fingers flying on the keyboard, eyes zipping about the screen, etc, etc, etc - as you're caught up in that fight?

    How many on the other hand are the target popping before you've even finished your alpha or the target having more hull/shields than when you started the alpha?

    It's not just damage/healing, though - it's cleanses/debuffs/etc. There's just so much that's on or off - there's no middle-ground.

    Still, in talking about do they know what they're doing with their own game...I give you this awesome example:

    Crippling Fire

    Okay, so let's take the Tac - likely to be in an Escort. Give them Elusive, 9 Maneuvers, etc. They're going to be moving >24 impulse. So before SFM, EM, APO, etc - they're going to be looking at +80% Bonus Defense. Maybe they're cooky, and they're also running either Aegis Engines or even 2pc Aegis - so they're at +85% to +90% Bonus Defense. They can easily boost that to +150% or higher.

    Crippling Fire

    So that Tac is damage focused, so they're likely to have the Borg, 0Point, Tachyo, Rom BOFFs, points in Weapon Specialization, etc, etc, etc...they're sporting the higher CrtH numbers.

    Crippling Fire

    So the guy that's running the highest Bonus Defense and likely the highest Critical Hit Chance... let's give them Crippling Fire. So they can stack an accuracy debuff on targets when they crit them.

    WTF? I mean...seriously...WTF?

    It's trippy if you think about the following:

    Parked TacEscort with Elusive/9 Maneuvers/Aegis Engine: +15% Bonus Defense (that's right, sitting still it has +15% Bonus Defense)

    Attacker with Accurate/9 Targeting: +25% Bonus Accuracy

    The Parked TacEscort lands 3 Crits with a Turret. The Attacker now has +10% Bonus Accuracy. They've got a chance to miss unless they've got Acc on their weapons. Even if they do, they're going to have less +CrtH/+CrtD from overflow.

    Tac with CSV/FAW...just randomly spraying the battlefield and reducing Accuracy. Thus, reducing damage - whether through misses or reduced overflow.

    Lump that in on top of everything else... yeah, no - I'm not sure they're really following what they're doing with the game.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    Awesome post dude. Agreed.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The game is too Yo-Yo.

    ... Snip...

    Agree as well.

    Just as an fyi, though 3 part KHG > than Aegis if using a team that cycles the MEF field (not counting KHG shield -ACC proc). Fortunately, (for the sake of this discussion) KHG engines are trash in terms of speed modifiers. If using JHEC you can add recall doffs to the defense boot and the Jem pseudo AP console w/all its debuff imunities that can also be cycled either inbetween APOs or just 1 after another for over a minute of those TEAM immunities & AoE defense boosts.

    Another option would be to use the Aegis w/the EBC, since being cloaked has its own defense bonuses. This is riskier since depending on the build you're cloaked, but targetable for 3 second or more spurts.

    That said, well timed movement disables&SNBs are still the great equalizer.

    Also, anyone know if that trait effect is clearable or not?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »

    Also, anyone know if that trait effect is clearable or not?



    That will be planned somewhere around Season 12.
    kkthxchnk
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The other day I made this:

    Armitage:

    Epte1,RSP1, epts3
    He1, tss2
    Tt1, bo2, crf2, apo3
    Tt1, apd1
    Bo1

    2 ap doffs, 2 damage control doffs, exocomp

    100% uptime on attack patterns, damn near 100% uptime on epts3

    Fleet elite shields.

    2 neutroniums

    Go full aux and pop a shields battery for hazards and TSS combo to counter my RSP cool down.

    Literally unkillable. And had the spike to flat out vape.

    Makes no sense that you can do that as a tac captain. None at all dude. Yes on the spike potential, of course.... But do you see all that defense? It's silly.

    Now you take away some of that builds stackable damage potential while he is in good hull health, and you put him in a very interesting predicament. One that the game does not do for Sci or engineering captains.

    the fleet akira is my new baby. im running similar, except im using torps and turn consoles instead of armor and BO, and im not even using RSP because its simply unneeded, AtD instead. shield heal drones too, so when those are close its even tankier

    in case you were wondering, when shot by energy weapons not specifically resisted by your elite shields, you top out at about 65% res with all the stacks, without TSS. EPtS3 plus the 15 res plus all the stacks is at res cap


    it makes you wonder how these ships can be flown so poorly by the majority that use them, they are monsters!
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    That will be planned somewhere around Season 12.
    kkthxchnk

    Saaaaay, doesn't KHG shield debuff your accuracy from time to time along with placating you when you shoot it?
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Saaaaay, doesn't KHG shield debuff your accuracy from time to time along with placating you when you shoot it?

    Yes it does, no idea if it stacks w/the trait Acc debuff. Fyi, its regen is terrible compared to other shield be carefull to plan for that when using it on ships w/crappy shield mods.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I can picture the Wheeee Build for pugging or Ker'rat with my KDF Tac in a Chel Grett...

    Chel Grett w/ KDF Tac

    Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist, Techie, Astrophysicist, Last Ditch Effort, Crippling Fire, some random ground trait

    Passives
    New Rom - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault, (QSM)
    Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Superior Shield Repair
    Tholian - Fortified Hull, Aux Defense, (RTC)

    TT1, DPB1, APO1, APO3
    TS1, BO2

    EPtS1, AtS1
    EPtE1

    PH1, HE2, TSS3

    DOFFs - SDO(BFI), 3x DCE(EPt), Conn(TT)

    Deflector - Fermion [Flow][Ins][Eng][SciCdr]
    Engine - Aegis
    Shield - KHG
    Warp Core - +5 Shield, +15 EPS, S->A, Eng Cap

    Weapons
    Fore - Omega Torp, Hyper-Dual Refracting Bank, Experimental Beam, Chron Dual Beam
    Aft - Web Mines, Cutting Beam, Hyper-Plasma Torp, Temporal Disruption

    Consoles
    Tac - Iso, Leech, Nukara, 0Point
    Eng - Neut, Borg, Tachyo
    Sci - Rom PI [ShH], Rom PI [HuH], FG

    Devices - SFM, Aux Batt, Wep Batt

    Such a muddled mess...lol...I want to fly it. :)
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    the fleet akira is my new baby. im running similar, except im using torps and turn consoles instead of armor and BO, and im not even using RSP because its simply unneeded, AtD instead. shield heal drones too, so when those are close its even tankier

    in case you were wondering, when shot by energy weapons not specifically resisted by your elite shields, you top out at about 65% res with all the stacks, without TSS. EPtS3 plus the 15 res plus all the stacks is at res cap


    it makes you wonder how these ships can be flown so poorly by the majority that use them, they are monsters!

    Aye. I see that too. But with omegas popping 15 up 15 down, I felt maneuverable enough. Didn't even need a2id or RCS. Just.... Thought of it as a tank escort.

    And yes. So many people fly this ship to failsauce. Shame.

    Edit: I also kept danoobs. And have a boff ready with tractor 1,2 to TRIBBLE off every guy I feel I need to 1v1
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Aye. I see that too. But with omegas popping 15 up 15 down, I felt maneuverable enough. Didn't even need a2id or RCS. Just.... Thought of it as a tank escort.

    And yes. So many people fly this ship to failsauce. Shame.

    Edit: I also kept danoobs. And have a boff ready with tractor 1,2 to TRIBBLE off every guy I feel I need to 1v1

    With the change to linked crits...

    2 Plasma torps plasma energy for the dot synergy with the torps... a bunch of Rom Embasy consoles to push the burn some more. With scorp fighters. You can even throw in a EWP if you really wanted.

    With the non linked... on a tac it should burn people to death. Who cares about there SR numbers.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    With the change to linked crits...

    2 Plasma torps plasma energy for the dot synergy with the torps... a bunch of Rom Embasy consoles to push the burn some more. With scorp fighters. You can even throw in a EWP if you really wanted.

    With the non linked... on a tac it should burn people to death. Who cares about there SR numbers.

    I see that too. I don't think I can bring myself to add yet another ship to the queues rocking plasma though. Maybe quants behind the overloads... Maybe even DEM and doff to run the overloads and CRF together. I had been staggering them. Speccing into torps hurts my brain.
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Does anyone know how much damage boost GDF gave at 100%, 75%, 50% and 25% hull and what those numbers are going to change to now?
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    After having focused on how horrible the Tacs could be, has anybody investigated what the other classes can look forward to being able to become like Super Tanks or uber-drain builds, etc?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited April 2013
    Okay, so let's take the Tac - likely to be in an Escort. Give them Elusive, 9 Maneuvers, etc. They're going to be moving >24 impulse. So before SFM, EM, APO, etc - they're going to be looking at +80% Bonus Defense. Maybe they're cooky, and they're also running either Aegis Engines or even 2pc Aegis - so they're at +85% to +90% Bonus Defense. They can easily boost that to +150% or higher.
    Don't forget the Subterfuge trait for the Romulan BOFFs. With 2 superior BOFFs, you can get 7.5% defense. There's also an Elite Deflector dish that gives, I believe, 2.6% defense.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Funny. That's how I use my GDF at least half of the time.

    A GDF with a 60 sec uptime that you only get 10 secs out of because no one heals you and you go kablooey is also a wasted GDF.

    Not funny at all. GDF has long been a part of the "classic*" Alpha key punch prep thingy.

    *its all I could think of to call it since I remember players telling me to use it in the alpha prep back in the whatever days.
    I only stopped becuase I saw no credible increase in damage with it.

    Minimax has proven me wrong.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited April 2013
    Oh the increase is there. It's not great, but it's best when stacked on top of APA and tac fleet. To me the key has always been to run the GDF early, and then stack the APA and fleet strategically. Even a weapons battery with exocomp stacked on all of that is just more possible big crits.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Oh the increase is there. It's not great, but it's best when stacked on top of APA and tac fleet. To me the key has always been to run the GDF early, and then stack the APA and fleet strategically. Even a weapons battery with exocomp stacked on all of that is just more possible big crits.

    Exocomps are foriegn to me. How do they help the weapons batt again?

    I guess with the change GDF is now less useful as a alpha prep buff.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Exocomps are foriegn to me. How do they help the weapons batt again?

    I guess with the change GDF is now less useful as a alpha prep buff.

    If you're KDF, it's actually a special v. rare Reman Maintence Engineer DOff that does the same thing.

    When you activate a Weapon Battery you get +10% damage for the duration of the battery.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
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