test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
KDF Pre-order system - your thoughts please
weylandjuarez
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi everyone,
this thread is loosely connected with the 'Disenchanted' campaign I started in the KDF forums insomuch as it's an attempt to get a 2-way dialogue doing with the Developers over things the KDF (and the player-base as a whole) would like addressed.
This is the first of several posts on game-mechanics and systems that I feel would be beneficial not just to the KDF but to the Feds (and the Romulans) too.
That said, since Cryptic have previously been concerned with the KDF being unprofitable to develop new content for, I wanted to discuss ways that we could get the things we want without Cryptic worrying about whether or not they'd 'pay for themselves'.
With this in mind, I'd like to propose a KDF Pre-Order system.
Kickstarter has been suggested previously as a way to get new KDF ships into the game, but that comes with its own issues - not least of which being that Kickstarter takes a commission on successful funding projects.
It occurs to me that with the C-Store and other developments such as the Ferengi offering refunds on Prototype Andorian gear, the systems already exist (more or less) to make this work. So...
1) Cryptic proposes a ship design on the C-Store with concept art and complete ship stats - these stats would not be subject to change at launch but may undergo balancing once the ship is in game (the way all ships can change) - this is important, particularly with a pre-order because a buyer needs to know what they're getting.
2) Ships pre-orders are paid in full, up-front at the current rates - 2,500 Zen for a single ship, 5,000 Zen for a 3-pack.
3) The KDF player gets a bound-to-account pre-order 'reward' pack which can't be opened until the ship is in game.
4) Cryptic updates the C-Store with the number of pre-orders needed for the project to go ahead.
5) If the project meets its pre-order goal, the ship goes into development and an ETA is given for when the ship will appear in-game.
6) If the pre-order goal is not met, players can trade in their pre-order boxes to get their Zen back.
This doesn't have to just be about ships - it could include costumes too - additionally, if it's not possible to refund Zen in this way, pre-orders could be made solely with Dilithium since we know it's possible to refund that in-game.
What do you think? Would you support a system like this?
this thread is loosely connected with the 'Disenchanted' campaign I started in the KDF forums insomuch as it's an attempt to get a 2-way dialogue doing with the Developers over things the KDF (and the player-base as a whole) would like addressed.
This is the first of several posts on game-mechanics and systems that I feel would be beneficial not just to the KDF but to the Feds (and the Romulans) too.
That said, since Cryptic have previously been concerned with the KDF being unprofitable to develop new content for, I wanted to discuss ways that we could get the things we want without Cryptic worrying about whether or not they'd 'pay for themselves'.
With this in mind, I'd like to propose a KDF Pre-Order system.
Kickstarter has been suggested previously as a way to get new KDF ships into the game, but that comes with its own issues - not least of which being that Kickstarter takes a commission on successful funding projects.
It occurs to me that with the C-Store and other developments such as the Ferengi offering refunds on Prototype Andorian gear, the systems already exist (more or less) to make this work. So...
1) Cryptic proposes a ship design on the C-Store with concept art and complete ship stats - these stats would not be subject to change at launch but may undergo balancing once the ship is in game (the way all ships can change) - this is important, particularly with a pre-order because a buyer needs to know what they're getting.
2) Ships pre-orders are paid in full, up-front at the current rates - 2,500 Zen for a single ship, 5,000 Zen for a 3-pack.
3) The KDF player gets a bound-to-account pre-order 'reward' pack which can't be opened until the ship is in game.
4) Cryptic updates the C-Store with the number of pre-orders needed for the project to go ahead.
5) If the project meets its pre-order goal, the ship goes into development and an ETA is given for when the ship will appear in-game.
6) If the pre-order goal is not met, players can trade in their pre-order boxes to get their Zen back.
This doesn't have to just be about ships - it could include costumes too - additionally, if it's not possible to refund Zen in this way, pre-orders could be made solely with Dilithium since we know it's possible to refund that in-game.
What do you think? Would you support a system like this?
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
Post edited by weylandjuarez on
0
Comments
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I understand that Cryptic doesn't want to take a financial risk, but perhaps something like this (should the community embrace it) would allow them to make items for the KDF without worrying about not making their money back and the time/expense invested.
Using imaginary numbers:
500,0000 playing STO
400,000 are Fed
100,000 are KDF
5% of Fed-base buy any particular item: 20,000 sold
5% of KDF-base buy any particular item: 5,000 sold
The trick is to get the KDF-base up near 20,000. To do that you simply need to increase the KDF buyer-base from 5% to 20%.
A Kickstarter would be a really good indication to see if there are enough KDF fans to justify them producing something.
Therefore this idea is moot. Its also never going to happen so there is no point in discussing it
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
The Fed players have been tricked into moderate pacification for 3 years with shiny baubles and no additional Mission Content. There's no reason the KDF can't be likewise pacified.
That's exactly the point though - few KDF bought the C-Store Bortas because it wasn't the sort of ship most KDF want to fly - underneath the hull it was just a re-purposed Oddy.
Posting concept art of a ship and the specs would cost Cryptic very little - plus, they know exactly how much these ships cost to make - if the pre-orders meet their profit margins then it goes into production, if not they've lost very little and the player-base has lost nothing.
They could even kick it off in a forum discussion or poll - no concept art or firm specs needed.
Cryptic has already shown how they plan to deliver future content - it's going to be faction-agnostic and the same for the Feds and the KDF (and the Romulans). LoR will be introducing some new, unique KDF content to get the levelling from 1-50 but after that all we'll be getting is shared Featured Episodes and Rep System-unlocked missions.
It's not what I'd like, but we have the choice of them focusing a greater amount of resources on shared content (which would hopefully make it better) or spending 16% or less of their development budget on developing unique KDF missions - it's disappointing I know but I'd rather have parity with all the new mission stuff the Feds get than they get a whole bunch of new stuff and we get 1 or 2 missions.
But the KDF is starved of interesting new C-Store ships and costumes and this could be a way for Cryptic to make a profit on that - which is the only way we'll get anything from them.
And as for discussing this, maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't - but if we can sow the seed of the idea that there's money to be made if they talk to us then perhaps it can happen.
I believe that this would open up a lot of opportunities for business on the part of Cryptic as they start to acquire certain guarantees with no potential risk.
Would you pre-order a KDF ship you liked the look of though?
But other prime examples are certain people I've encountered who spent money on the Oddy, Bortas, Vesta and quite recently the Andorian escort. These people bought the ships for "looks" and then immediately turned round and started crying about how bad the ships were for them. My response to them was next time look at the product before you buy it yet they still refused to listen. Point being here is that Cryptic do not have to target this audience as regardless, they will throw money at whatever they see as the next shinny thing. There are more of these type of people on the fed side.
The people that Cryptic need to target are those who are far more conservative with their wallets, who really study a product and scan for better deals before they even attempt to crowbar their wallet open to drop some cash. In the KDF because of the smaller player base this group is going to have a much stronger outcome on sales. If they see something they don't want, they won't buy it! End of. Prime example; who here after truly studying the Bortas in depth think it's a ship worth getting compared to the array of better ships you can get at lower cost?
So in summary:
-There are people who will throw money away out there and buy a pile of manure just because it has shinny sprinkles on it.
-You need to deliver a product that people actually want to buy, especially when they are the ones who are really going to determine if it's a success or not in the long run.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Well put. And further to this, the KDF already have an impressive array of ships including the really, quite awesome Fleet Tor'kaht - but that doesn't mean there isn't gaps in the lineup - we're still short on science vessels and a 5-tac console Raptor for starters.
Which is exactly why a poll or a forum post from Geko would be the best way to kick this off - 'we were thinking of this' or 'what do you guys want'?
From there they could do some concept art and spec it out then put it up for pre-order.
But a better starting point for something like this might be a costume set or even a shuttle - something that you'd put $5-$10 straight down on.
So there's a question - what would you like KDF-side that you'd pay $5-$10 for right now?
For me it'd be something like the Bortasqu' outfit from the Fleet Tailor - a complete costume set - pants, skirt, jacket, shoulder-pads and (of course) great boots - I've got $10 right here that's yours Cryptic if I can pre-order something that makes my KDF character look great
While I love the ship I feel funny flying it when I have a T5 raptor sitting in dock.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Currently I am more after costumes and more species options, it's been boring have the same stuff to wear and little to no options on your species. Many of the KDF side forced traits are terrible.
So in conclusion I agree this is the best idea I have heard in a long time, though may a suggest like a 20% deposit or something, would give people a commitment to actually buy the things they offer.
Well that was the reason for paying up-front - Cryptic needs to know they're going to make a profit on the ship/costume/whatever - if we paid up front the full cost then X amount of players would need to buy it for it to get made - if you put 20% in then considerably more would have to pre-order since Cryptic couldn't be sure all those deposits would turn into final transactions.
But as an additional incentive to put the money up they could offer pre-order customers a unique material for ships or additional/different costume pieces.
To be honest though, I'd be happy just seeing them try this - I'm definitely prepared to put my money where my mouth is
The palm reads: 'We Dont Give a F! '
Companies always give a F! about money - maybe this is a way for them to make some whilst giving us something we want
Lets say there is 2,000,000 People (Like I said, might be too low or high but saying) Or on avergae 200,000. If there are 20$ ships and everyone on KDF buys it can be (400.000 People or 40.000 People x 20$ = near a million $ or 800k so maybe idk.. overeggaerated a bit maybe.
Anyway rant over, back on topic. I'd purchase tier 1 and tier 2 KDF ships if they came out on zen store. The ships and gameplay is more fun for me at 1-39 than it is at 40-50.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
That's a fair enough call and point well received, if they started to actually develop the KDF fairly I would start putting money back into this game. This method you suggested would be an acceptable compromise for many KDF players, I would endorse it. This could be done for other such items rather than just ships like costumes etc.
I really like most of what you suggested, I could see me buying at least 75% of what you listed. Ships aren't a big thing for me, though I would like a decent cruiser for my engineer to be competitive. I don't like the idea of Fleet ships, 2000 Zen for a single ship that if accidently dismissed you can't get back. I'd like to see a c-store cruiser, an improvement on the Vor'Cha or Negh'Var. Ideally a Lethean cruiser would be very neat.
I'd also like to see a decent line up of science vessels, true science ships some that can be competitive with the Federation line-up. KDF has science officers too. I'm not a carrier fan and so the carrier doesn't appeal to me and the Gorn ships in my opinion aren't worth it, plus I'd rather see an Orion or Klingon science vessel. Not a fan of the Gorn, just a personal choice.
Personally, I think that some time should pass untill this is pushed for implementation. I say this because with the new expansion the KDF will be able to start at lvl 1 for the first time and have some added content that will possibly fill the gap in leveling the KDF has atm. So, I'd wait untill after the summer to see how things turn out, because although it may seem highly unlikely to many people - we might actually see an increase in KDF numbers. We can't know for sure now, beacuse the KDF was locked behind 25 levels of Fed. gameplay for a long time.
Also, there is the Romulan thing and I'm pretty sure that with how things are atm, noone knows for certain how that will turn out to be. For ex. how many people will go green to play Romulan as main and then the portion of them that will go to Fed. or KDF to ally with. And how many of them will remain pissed off because the lack of fleets/starbases and give up on playing the Romulan Republic.
I'm mentioning the Romulans because I'm sure that there will be a number of dedicated Romulan fans that will play the Romulan faction even if they consider it sub-pair, for the pure love of it, just as the KDF fans sticked with the KDF even when it had nothing to even remind them of being a faction.
I think it's fairly possible that the following happens: If the vast majority of Romulans ally with the Fed. (a highly possible scenario), in numbers they become a small minority compared to the large Fed. playerbase. Then they get left out of faction specific upgrades in content and have to go with Fed. ones & Starfleet ship additions. On the other hand, if the majority of them decide to ally with the KDF, they become a more important part of the population on this side and their requests can be heard, so they can hope for more attention and ocassional updates on 'Romulan' things they need.
I'm pointing this out because if the dedicated Romulan fans that plan on playing STO as a Romulan main see this and go down this road, it will also be a bust in the numbers here.
So hoping and wishfully thinking, we may have a different relation in demographics in STO a couple of months after LoR is released. Maybe, just maybe, this side of STO will end up at least with the amount of players that would make Cryptic believe it's viable again to create more KDF stuff. Even if it's divided - one Klingon ship - one Romulan, I will be good with that.
In this imagined situation we wouldn't need a 'pre-order' or 'kickstarter' system, because the devs. would finally start to pay attention and do their job as they were always suposed to do - work equally for the factions.
However, if things remain unchanged after the summer, this idea of yours OP will not only be good or needed, but necessary for the survival of the KDF. If the dev. team continues to go down the road - small miniority, therefore not plausible to create content for; something like your proposal will have to be established in STO. Otherwise the KDF will be in danger of getting nothing, which will conequently devastate the KDF numbers.
In such a situation this idea would have to be put to work - like you said - they present us with concept art of the design and stats of a certain ship for ex. and then set a goal how much of them they need to sell in order to be viable for them to create it. If the goal is reached by the pre-order you suggested, we get a new ship.
I'd give it untill after the summer to see how demographics develop after all the changes that the LoR expansion would bring before we push for this, but if the status quo remanis on the red side I guess something like this will have to be discussed seriosely with the devs in order to keep that 16/18/20% of KDF fans happy and not feel like they're not needed in the game.
i would buy 70-80% of this stuff n would love a Ferasan ship for my Ferasan sci i would prefair a counter part to 3 pack vesta but i would be happy with any new z-store kdf sci ship. i would allso buy the superbop for my klingon tac. so as ive said before if u wont more cash off me make some new z-store KDF ships. ive paid for 4 fed ships + 2 fed bundles ship packs + 4 costume unlocks. kdf ive paid for 5 ships so far, ive all so paid for 15 ish respec tokens. im f2p n willing to spend cash on things but theres nothing i wont now but new kdf ships + more oufits. i spend 60% of my game time kdf side n would like to have my spending reflect that.
But also feel free to be a tad ridiculous and insane. I know I wouldn't buy a ship with 5 tac slots because honestly that's just a waste of console space considering how little bonus you get. However if they came out with a K'Vort with 8 forward firing weapon slots just to annoy the feds I would throw money at it. What we really need is Cryptic to say no to specific idea; like feds getting carriers, which means they will most likely do it.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
"1) Cryptic proposes a ship design on the C-Store with concept art and complete ship stats - these stats would not be subject to change at launch but may undergo balancing once the ship is in game (the way all ships can change) - this is important, particularly with a pre-order because a buyer needs to know what they're getting.
Players approve or ask changes to what Cryptic propose firstly so the process of defining the final stats should be interactive
2) Ships pre-orders are paid in full, up-front at the current rates - 2,500 Zen for a single ship, 5,000 Zen for a 3-pack."
What I would buy for my kdf char are :
"K'Vort Bird of Prey Cruiser Retrofit: Battlecloak, Turn rate 18, 2 fixed seating positions (Lt. Sci and Lt. Engineering), CDR and LTC Universal, Ensign Universal, 4 front/2 Aft, 4 Tac/3 Sci/3 Engineering, rapid-fire Torpedo launcher (double rate of fire for x seconds, works with existing Bridge officer abilities.)"
or
"5-tac-console Raptor, same base stats as the Kumari, 4/3 weapons layout, standard cloak."
and preferable having a bop skin
or
"KDF "Superbop" 3-pack: one tactical-focus Bird of Prey, 1 Sci focused Bird of Prey, 1 Engineering BoP. Maybe base it on a Hegh'ta or Hoh'sus refit programme, with two console stacks at 3 and 1 at 4, and Cdr/LTC/LTC/LT stack seating, with a single fixed Ensign for each career type (Sci would have an ens. sci, Tac would have an ensign tac, and Eng would have an ens. engie), and different bonuses: Sci would get +15 Aux, Engie would get 15 Engine power, and tac would get the traditional 15 weps."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I'll pre-order these right now.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG