My Starfleet Captain doesn't follow those rules!
She runs her ship as she sees fit and not always by Starfleet's rules.
The point of view she takes is she's a Soldier first and foremost, on the front lines of a war.
No need to play nice with the bad guy, just obliterate their ships and move on.
The ship is run on strong military lines, not as an exploration vessel or anything else.
Besides, Captains are given more or less absolute authority on their vessels, they can do whatever they want, because if they discover a threat, they don't have time to send a subspace communique to Starfleet Command to ask, what should I do here, then wait for a response while the enemy armada is massing to attack.
There was even an episode that suggests this, where Starfleet has to take unilateral action to protect the Federation from the Dominion because the politicians were unwilling to do so.
Granted, a military coup wasn't the best way to do so, but still, they had the right intentions.
Which implies that Starfleet can and does operate outside of Federation Council control, being able to do this all on their own.
When Sisko discovers the deception that fueled the coup, he even orders the Defiant to come to Earth to resolve the situation, against orders.
And when the Lakota tries to stop them, it nearly gets destroyed, the Defiant only had to fire one more barrage to finish them off.
If the Captain hadn't surrendered, Kira would have given that order.
This would imply, outside of sending another Starfleet ship to intercept another one, there's not a lot you can do to override a Captain's authority, not if their crew is supporting them.
Funny maybe but it is hilarious you seem to justifying your do as you please behavior as rp or story driven. That is priceless. Federation aside it may not have occurred to you but being at war is not a carte blanche to do as you please. You must be naive or willfully blind if you think people are given command of a warship like a personal ride.
You touch on a canon source to lend credibility to to your poor justification but when you conjecture on what might have happened it is pointless because it didn't happen. Here, let me help:
Ronald Tracey: busted.
Garth of Izar: busted.
Cartwright: busted
Erik Pressman: busted.
Michael Eddington: busted then dead.
the common thread on this shortlist that spans multiple incarnations of the Trek universe (that's why I picked them) is that each of these characters thought they knew better. Whatever gave them this insight (everything from madness to idealism) involved them placing their own judgement above the oaths they took to Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.
Most of the these were court martialed and many ended up being taken into custody by their own officers because their actions were so morally abhorrent and in opposition with the mandates of their parent organizations. It is convenient that in your rp universe your character is such a maverick free thinker yet all your crew are spineless lemmings who think the stars shine from their CO's TRIBBLE. Good on you not a member of your crew attended Ethics at Starfleet Academy. That's a pretty awesome part you can add to your story if you like.
Sisko who is one of the more questionable (his own actions ends justifying means/ decisions) prominently featured officers in Trek pursued Eddington relentlessly because of the oaths he had violated. For all his "not quite by the book" street cred Sisko didn't like traitors much at all.
There isn't much point to this reply really. I recognize like most ridiculous arguments that are spawned in the fedo threads they are formulated upon a desired conclusion. Sure once the ludicrous end result is arrived at it will be liberally padded with "'cause I want it" and "canon" that is ridiculously twisted out of context.
Congratulations, there is nothing I can write, no matter how clearly and that would make you see. You have your opinion for what it's worth and for that you have my sympathy.
You're assuming my crew actually come from Starfleet Academy......
They're either recruited from militaries where the rules were different (kill or be killed), civilians who enlisted directly to the ship (they got their training onboard the ship) and a number of species from other galactic powers (KDF space, Breen, Dominion, Reman).
So, they're not really concerned with Starfleet's way of doing things, having never attended the Academy.
And I'm pretty sure you're only painting half the picture here.
I'm sure Kirk broke more then his fair share of rules and despite everything, he never was seriously punished for it.
Because he got results.
Data even broke the rules once, he was ordered to reform with the other ships to stop the Romulans, instead he had a better idea and ignored a direct order to implement it.
If Starfleet really cared about protocol, both these officers would have spent months in prison or punishment duty.
There are most likely other cases as well which should have resulted in immediate court-martial and penalties, but I can't recall them specifically.
Also, it is protocol that on any ship, the Captain has absolute authority.
Not even Admirals can take command of a ship, they issue orders to the Captain who then implements them as they see fit.
I think under military protocol, an Admiral attempting such an action would be viewed as a mutineer and treated appropriately.
Also, if I was Soldier, I'd be offended if anyone called me Civvie.
Which is why I get annoyed at the misnomer, we aren't Civvies, we're Military Officers in Starfleet.
Comparing a Starfleet Captain to a Federation citizen is like calling the captain of a battleship a private yacht owner or a freighter captain.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Funny maybe but it is hilarious you seem to justifying your do as you please behavior as rp or story driven. That is priceless. Federation aside it may not have occurred to you but being at war is not a carte blanche to do as you please. You must be naive or willfully blind if you think people are given command of a warship like a personal ride.
You touch on a canon source to lend credibility to to your poor justification but when you conjecture on what might have happened it is pointless because it didn't happen. Here, let me help:
Ronald Tracey: busted.
Garth of Izar: busted.
Cartwright: busted
Erik Pressman: busted.
Michael Eddington: busted then dead.
the common thread on this shortlist that spans multiple incarnations of the Trek universe (that's why I picked them) is that each of these characters thought they knew better. Whatever gave them this insight (everything from madness to idealism) involved them placing their own judgement above the oaths they took to Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.
Most of the these were court martialed and many ended up being taken into custody by their own officers because their actions were so morally abhorrent and in opposition with the mandates of their parent organizations. It is convenient that in your rp universe your character is such a maverick free thinker yet all your crew are spineless lemmings who think the stars shine from their CO's TRIBBLE. Good on you not a member of your crew attended Ethics at Starfleet Academy. That's a pretty awesome part you can add to your story if you like.
Sisko who is one of the more questionable (his own actions ends justifying means/ decisions) prominently featured officers in Trek pursued Eddington relentlessly because of the oaths he had violated. For all his "not quite by the book" street cred Sisko didn't like traitors much at all.
There isn't much point to this reply really. I recognize like most ridiculous arguments that are spawned in the fedo threads they are formulated upon a desired conclusion. Sure once the ludicrous end result is arrived at it will be liberally padded with "'cause I want it" and "canon" that is ridiculously twisted out of context.
Congratulations, there is nothing I can write, no matter how clearly and that would make you see. You have your opinion for what it's worth and for that you have my sympathy.
Don't forget Captain Maxwell from the U.S.S. Phoenix.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Starfleet "characters" are from the Federation (and citizenship doesn't matter, they represent the Starfleet, therefore the Federation) as much as the US Navy members are americans. I dont understand ur confusion.
I really want to know where the other K in Klink comes from ?? Serious there's only one K so why does the so called short version get two K's it makes no sense?!?!?!...There is a G if anything it should be Kling...like how Worf has said in the show.
No idea why, but I believe the term originated from the old Star Fleet Battles game.
Sisko who is one of the more questionable (his own actions ends justifying means/ decisions) prominently featured officers in Trek pursued Eddington relentlessly because of the oaths he had violated. For all his "not quite by the book" street cred Sisko didn't like traitors much at all.
Also, Sisko's single most ethically-questionable act -- bringing the Romulans into the Dominion War on the Federation's side -- was carried out only after getting the green-light from Starfleet Command, a move of which had the Tal Shiar somehow caught wind, would have pushed the Romulans into an alliance with the Dominion.
Don't forget Ransom as well.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Yes, I know Cryptic labelled the faction Federation, but it's a very inacurrate name.
Because we're not actually playing as Federation characters!
We play as Starfleet characters.
The Federation is the generic term for civilians, Starfleet is the military arm.
It would be like going up to a member of the Navy and calling them a civvie.
You're incorrect. The Federation is a nation state, much as the United States of America. Starfleet is the defense organization for that nation, just as the United States Army (and the other uniformed services) is a defense organization for America. As a member of Starfleet, your character would also, by default, be a member of the Federation. Non-Federation persons can serve with Starfleet, but, in canon, these have always been either liaison officers, or contractors and, thus, not Starfleet. The peoples of the United Federation of Planets may, or may not choose to serve in the Starfleet, but being a member of the Federation is a requirement of serving in Starfleet.
You're incorrect. The Federation is a nation state, much as the United States of America. Starfleet is the defense organization for that nation, just as the United States Army (and the other uniformed services) is a defense organization for America. As a member of Starfleet, your character would also, by default, be a member of the Federation. Non-Federation persons can serve with Starfleet, but, in canon, these have always been either liaison officers, or contractors and, thus, not Starfleet. The peoples of the United Federation of Planets may, or may not choose to serve in the Starfleet, but being a member of the Federation is a requirement of serving in Starfleet.
as Stated above, this is not entirely correct.
Nog and any Bajorans in the tv shows would not be federation citizens as their respective homeworlds are not members. Likewise Icheb on Voyager was either going to (upon voyagers return) or had informally already entered Starfleet Academy and again his race was not a member of the federation so he would not be a Federation Citizen.
Any person whose homeworld is not part of the Federation can join Starfleet as long as they get a recommendation from a Commander level or higher officer (I think Sisko was still a commander at the time he recommended Nog). This was very pointedly stated in the TV shows and Nog getting Sisko to recommend him was the B story of an entire episodes I believe.
Also, I would more compare the UFP to the European Union then the US. It is a loose confederation. There are a few guildlines for members, but otherwise each planet is more or less Autonomous within the federation. But that is just splitting hairs.
First, the faction's name is abbreviated. When you hear someone in the movies and series say 'the Federation', the character is referring to the 'United Federation of Planets'. Its the galaxy's version of the United Nations.
Starfleet is an organization that operates within the Federation. Once a planetary government joins the 'United Federation of Planet', the peace treaty grants their civilians a chance to join Starfleet. As everyone already knows, Starfleet is a military based space exploration and educational organization.
You can be a member of the 'United Federation of Planets' without belonging to Starfleet. Jake Sisko, Cassidy Yates, Amanda Grayson, and Sarek belong to the 'United Federation of Planets'; however, they never entered into the ranks of Starfleet.
Sarek was a Vulcan ambassador to the 'United Federation of Planets'.
Seven of Nine was a human from Earth, but she doesn't end up joining Starfleet. If you watch the series "Star Trek: Voyager", Seven was never given a specific rank. I think she wore a Starfleet scinece uniform once.
Nog was not a member of the Federation and he joined Starfleet, because he was sponsored by Captain Sisko. So, given the above example, it is not likely that every member of Starfleet is necessarily a Federation citizen.
Within certain special cases, Starfleet has allowed members of a non-Federation culture to join. Its similar to having a work visa or diplomatic immunity. As an overall rule to the system, Starfleet doesn't grant any non-Federation civilian access. Special circumstances have to be have occurred.
First, the faction's name is abbreviated. When you hear someone in the movies and series say 'the Federation', the character is referring to the 'United Federation of Planets'. Its the galaxy's version of the United Nations.
I wouldn't use the UN as an example, here. The UN, while it is a suprenational organization, and can pass binding resolutions, has no independent coercive power, mechanisms of enforcement, nor are its member-states necessarily entreated for defense or trade (and in fact, may be belligerents of one another). North Korea, for its various appearances in the news and allegations of rogue statehood, is a member-state of the United Nations for example.
On the other hand, the UFP is a federal, constitutional republic. Member-states enjoy limited sovereignty over their own affairs, but there is a central, federal, government consisting of executive, legislature, and judiciary branches that wield coercive power over its member-states, and is empowered to provide for the common defense (i.e. Starfleet). UFP members are entreated for common defense and trade.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Comments
Funny maybe but it is hilarious you seem to justifying your do as you please behavior as rp or story driven. That is priceless. Federation aside it may not have occurred to you but being at war is not a carte blanche to do as you please. You must be naive or willfully blind if you think people are given command of a warship like a personal ride.
You touch on a canon source to lend credibility to to your poor justification but when you conjecture on what might have happened it is pointless because it didn't happen. Here, let me help:
Ronald Tracey: busted.
Garth of Izar: busted.
Cartwright: busted
Erik Pressman: busted.
Michael Eddington: busted then dead.
the common thread on this shortlist that spans multiple incarnations of the Trek universe (that's why I picked them) is that each of these characters thought they knew better. Whatever gave them this insight (everything from madness to idealism) involved them placing their own judgement above the oaths they took to Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets.
Most of the these were court martialed and many ended up being taken into custody by their own officers because their actions were so morally abhorrent and in opposition with the mandates of their parent organizations. It is convenient that in your rp universe your character is such a maverick free thinker yet all your crew are spineless lemmings who think the stars shine from their CO's TRIBBLE. Good on you not a member of your crew attended Ethics at Starfleet Academy. That's a pretty awesome part you can add to your story if you like.
Sisko who is one of the more questionable (his own actions ends justifying means/ decisions) prominently featured officers in Trek pursued Eddington relentlessly because of the oaths he had violated. For all his "not quite by the book" street cred Sisko didn't like traitors much at all.
There isn't much point to this reply really. I recognize like most ridiculous arguments that are spawned in the fedo threads they are formulated upon a desired conclusion. Sure once the ludicrous end result is arrived at it will be liberally padded with "'cause I want it" and "canon" that is ridiculously twisted out of context.
Congratulations, there is nothing I can write, no matter how clearly and that would make you see. You have your opinion for what it's worth and for that you have my sympathy.
They're either recruited from militaries where the rules were different (kill or be killed), civilians who enlisted directly to the ship (they got their training onboard the ship) and a number of species from other galactic powers (KDF space, Breen, Dominion, Reman).
So, they're not really concerned with Starfleet's way of doing things, having never attended the Academy.
And I'm pretty sure you're only painting half the picture here.
I'm sure Kirk broke more then his fair share of rules and despite everything, he never was seriously punished for it.
Because he got results.
Data even broke the rules once, he was ordered to reform with the other ships to stop the Romulans, instead he had a better idea and ignored a direct order to implement it.
If Starfleet really cared about protocol, both these officers would have spent months in prison or punishment duty.
There are most likely other cases as well which should have resulted in immediate court-martial and penalties, but I can't recall them specifically.
Also, it is protocol that on any ship, the Captain has absolute authority.
Not even Admirals can take command of a ship, they issue orders to the Captain who then implements them as they see fit.
I think under military protocol, an Admiral attempting such an action would be viewed as a mutineer and treated appropriately.
Also, if I was Soldier, I'd be offended if anyone called me Civvie.
Which is why I get annoyed at the misnomer, we aren't Civvies, we're Military Officers in Starfleet.
Comparing a Starfleet Captain to a Federation citizen is like calling the captain of a battleship a private yacht owner or a freighter captain.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Don't forget Captain Maxwell from the U.S.S. Phoenix.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Yeah, seems pretty obvious to me.
No idea why, but I believe the term originated from the old Star Fleet Battles game.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Also, Sisko's single most ethically-questionable act -- bringing the Romulans into the Dominion War on the Federation's side -- was carried out only after getting the green-light from Starfleet Command, a move of which had the Tal Shiar somehow caught wind, would have pushed the Romulans into an alliance with the Dominion.
Don't forget Ransom as well.
Spock's Brain.
You're incorrect. The Federation is a nation state, much as the United States of America. Starfleet is the defense organization for that nation, just as the United States Army (and the other uniformed services) is a defense organization for America. As a member of Starfleet, your character would also, by default, be a member of the Federation. Non-Federation persons can serve with Starfleet, but, in canon, these have always been either liaison officers, or contractors and, thus, not Starfleet. The peoples of the United Federation of Planets may, or may not choose to serve in the Starfleet, but being a member of the Federation is a requirement of serving in Starfleet.
So, given the above example, it is not likely that every member of Starfleet is necessarily a Federation citizen.
Which is the approach my Captain takes, she is Earthborn, but was never a member of the Federation.
If you're wondering how that is possible, she's from an alternative timeline and the past, one where the Federation never existed.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
as Stated above, this is not entirely correct.
Nog and any Bajorans in the tv shows would not be federation citizens as their respective homeworlds are not members. Likewise Icheb on Voyager was either going to (upon voyagers return) or had informally already entered Starfleet Academy and again his race was not a member of the federation so he would not be a Federation Citizen.
Any person whose homeworld is not part of the Federation can join Starfleet as long as they get a recommendation from a Commander level or higher officer (I think Sisko was still a commander at the time he recommended Nog). This was very pointedly stated in the TV shows and Nog getting Sisko to recommend him was the B story of an entire episodes I believe.
Also, I would more compare the UFP to the European Union then the US. It is a loose confederation. There are a few guildlines for members, but otherwise each planet is more or less Autonomous within the federation. But that is just splitting hairs.
Starfleet is an organization that operates within the Federation. Once a planetary government joins the 'United Federation of Planet', the peace treaty grants their civilians a chance to join Starfleet. As everyone already knows, Starfleet is a military based space exploration and educational organization.
You can be a member of the 'United Federation of Planets' without belonging to Starfleet. Jake Sisko, Cassidy Yates, Amanda Grayson, and Sarek belong to the 'United Federation of Planets'; however, they never entered into the ranks of Starfleet.
Sarek was a Vulcan ambassador to the 'United Federation of Planets'.
Seven of Nine was a human from Earth, but she doesn't end up joining Starfleet. If you watch the series "Star Trek: Voyager", Seven was never given a specific rank. I think she wore a Starfleet scinece uniform once.
Within certain special cases, Starfleet has allowed members of a non-Federation culture to join. Its similar to having a work visa or diplomatic immunity. As an overall rule to the system, Starfleet doesn't grant any non-Federation civilian access. Special circumstances have to be have occurred.
I wouldn't use the UN as an example, here. The UN, while it is a suprenational organization, and can pass binding resolutions, has no independent coercive power, mechanisms of enforcement, nor are its member-states necessarily entreated for defense or trade (and in fact, may be belligerents of one another). North Korea, for its various appearances in the news and allegations of rogue statehood, is a member-state of the United Nations for example.
On the other hand, the UFP is a federal, constitutional republic. Member-states enjoy limited sovereignty over their own affairs, but there is a central, federal, government consisting of executive, legislature, and judiciary branches that wield coercive power over its member-states, and is empowered to provide for the common defense (i.e. Starfleet). UFP members are entreated for common defense and trade.
Spock's Brain.
Just saying.
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