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Feeling lots o' hate toward NPC Romulen ships

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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Really before entering Romulan space you should get a message from Starfleet, or possibly your head BOFF, that details this information - bring hazard emitters, bring repulsors or BFAW or CSV, stay away from their front.

    It would be educational instead of an "exercise left to the player" to figure out how to defeat them.
    I agree with you. When we enter a new zone we shouldn't just hear Spock telling us about the species. One of our Boffs should also tells us, via words or pop-up, about the tactics and weapons of the foes we will face. That way if you choose to not read it or pay attention it's entirely your own fault. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I agree with you. When we enter a new zone we shouldn't just hear Spock telling us about the species. One of our Boffs should also tells us, via words or pop-up, about the tactics and weapons of the foes we will face. That way if you choose to not read it or pay attention it's entirely your own fault. :)

    Personally I think it's actually a challenge to spend a good couple of seconds in a mission to observe and deduce the pattern the enemy uses his abilities in.
    Reminds me of the old days with my Game Boy (I think it's called "Gameboy Classic" these days)...the enemies in "R-Type", "Batman" and "Super Mario Land" were similar in complexity.

    However if there is a need for players to not think for themselves and have the strategies handed to them...how about an "intelligence briefing when a player arrives in a new sector block.
    We already have someone who informs us which commodities to bring into the various exploration sectors.
    Why not some kind on "intelligence officer" who tells us about the enemies we may encounter and what might be some of the most sensible ways of defeating them?:)
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    misterde3 wrote: »
    Personally I think it's actually a challenge to spend a good couple of seconds in a mission to observe and deduce the pattern the enemy uses his abilities in.
    Reminds me of the old days with my Game Boy (I think it's called "Gameboy Classic" these days)...the enemies in "R-Type", "Batman" and "Super Mario Land" were similar in complexity.
    I don't disagree with you. Unfortunately it seems most players just jump into things. I can't even tell you how many times I've encountered some level 8-10 who didn't even know they could change their ship Power Settings because they didn't pay attention in the Tutorial. :)

    The intelligence briefing sounds like a perfect idea!
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • talientalien Member Posts: 712 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The only thing that pisses me off about Romulan NPC ships is the damn Mogai. It uses tac team and suddenly it's nigh invulnerable, it's shields will go from almost gone to full and barely budge until TT wears off, at which point they resume melting like a stick of butter exposed to a flamethrower. That and it's ability to turn on a dime without using evasive, EPTE, or aux to dampeners.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I don't disagree with you. Unfortunately it seems most players just jump into things. I can't even tell you how many times I've encountered some level 8-10 who didn't even know they could change their ship Power Settings because they didn't pay attention in the Tutorial. :)

    The intelligence briefing sounds like a perfect idea!

    Thanks.
    I'm not sure I came off as some kind of
    http://www.thesimplemoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Brainy-Smurf.jpg
    in my ramblings about the Gameboy.;)

    Anyway I thought about it a bit more and there are a couple of ideas I'd like to add:

    In theory on the Federation side the player has the nice immersion effect that he goes to a new "installation" or fleet every time he's assigned to a new area.
    In theory there could be an intelligence officer at each of these locations briefing them on the current situation.
    So at least for them there'd be no need to have one intelligence officer for all the briefings at ESD.

    For the Klingons (and probably the Romulans) that would not be true however.
    They'd need one NPC to brief them about all "fronts".
    In case of the "Empire Defense" missions that would be even more crucial.

    A more resource-intensive approach (for Cryptic) would be if they used their own idea from the "The 2800" Featured Series and allowed players to fight against enemy ships at their respective academies in the holodecks that are already there.
    This would be no different than the combati simulations you take on Bajor and give a more "real" feal that you can actually learn something at the academy instead of just get new BOFFS and some Dilithium for answering questions.
    :)
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Or they could have involved the academy and graduation as the most come sense thing to use before any or other story-gameplay features.
  • xiphenonxiphenon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    There are some important advises missing. The most important advise is, what ever captain class you play, choose an escort.

    An escort like the Akira class with 3 dual heavy cannons front and 2 turrets back shred trough romulans even morgai escorts with tactical team up. Combine this with 2 copies of rapid fire!

    Secondly, on your escort, use at least 1 copy of tactical team, but better 2! You don't need to shoot down plasma torps, since they will do few damage if they only hit your shields, which should be boosted by emergency power to shields 1 and 2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean, but WTF??!!!!

    What the hell ever happened to the good old days where people actually read things and enjoyed a video game because it was a challenge. It wasn't all that long ago that being stuck on a part in a game meant fighting the good fight no matter how many times you died, and the shear determination,skill/luck to finally beat it and have that overwhelming sense of achievement.

    Now it's try once and either rage quit or "OMFG THIS NEEDS TO BE NERFED NOW!"

    Seriously unless it's an Elite STF there's nothing really all that hard about this game. In normal play there's no real strategy needed besides duck in f them up and get out rinse and repeat or a good old fashion front side, broad side, rear side, broad side, rinse and repeat with some heals.

    If you're really going to hormonal rage like a two year old not getting a piece of candy every time you go to the store then just do it the easy way and switch to invincible mode by pressing and holding ALT and then pressing F4. Problem solved, no nerf needed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I like the romulan NPC's the way they are. in fact i kind wished we'd have a Romulan style STF with super hard romulan npc's with borg tech enhancements on them such as the D'deridex and Scimitar.
  • voyagerfan9751voyagerfan9751 Member Posts: 1,120 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    talien wrote: »
    The only thing that pisses me off about Romulan NPC ships is the damn Mogai. It uses tac team and suddenly it's nigh invulnerable, it's shields will go from almost gone to full and barely budge until TT wears off, at which point they resume melting like a stick of butter exposed to a flamethrower. That and it's ability to turn on a dime without using evasive, EPTE, or aux to dampeners.

    Honestly I don't mind the Mogai. Yeah they can be a real pain, but they are far from unbeatable.
    voicesdark wrote: »
    I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean, but WTF??!!!!

    What the hell ever happened to the good old days where people actually read things and enjoyed a video game because it was a challenge. It wasn't all that long ago that being stuck on a part in a game meant fighting the good fight no matter how many times you died, and the shear determination,skill/luck to finally beat it and have that overwhelming sense of achievement.

    Now it's try once and either rage quit or "OMFG THIS NEEDS TO BE NERFED NOW!"

    Seriously unless it's an Elite STF there's nothing really all that hard about this game. In normal play there's no real strategy needed besides duck in f them up and get out rinse and repeat or a good old fashion front side, broad side, rear side, broad side, rinse and repeat with some heals.

    If you're really going to hormonal rage like a two year old not getting a piece of candy every time you go to the store then just do it the easy way and switch to invincible mode by pressing and holding ALT and then pressing F4. Problem solved, no nerf needed.

    Since I am no doubt one of your "Rage nerfers" having written a thread that probably started this thread with my dislike of the D'Deridexes in game, Let me say my peace.

    I have no problem with difficulty. The problem I have specifically with the Ds, is without a specific set of strategies, they become impossible to defeat. With a simple maneuver, they can kill any ship regardless of hull/shield strength. Add on to that, that much of the missions that involve Ds have a respawn point so far away that they ship heals itself before you get back to it, and you have a ship that is potentially unbeatable.

    Now yes, with a very set strategy. The Ds become much easier. Still a challenge, but no where near unbeatable. The problem is that strategy is neither obvious nor easily deduced. Considering the level a player is at when doing the Romulan missions, I think it is fair to look at these ships and see if something can't be done to make it more obvious to the player what needs to be done.

    having to fight the same guy for 30 minutes and getting no one is far from raging like a two year old.
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    voicesdark wrote: »
    I'm sorry I'm not trying to be mean, but WTF??!!!!

    What the hell ever happened to the good old days where people actually read things and enjoyed a video game because it was a challenge. It wasn't all that long ago that being stuck on a part in a game meant fighting the good fight no matter how many times you died, and the shear determination,skill/luck to finally beat it and have that overwhelming sense of achievement.

    Now it's try once and either rage quit or "OMFG THIS NEEDS TO BE NERFED NOW!"

    Seriously unless it's an Elite STF there's nothing really all that hard about this game. In normal play there's no real strategy needed besides duck in f them up and get out rinse and repeat or a good old fashion front side, broad side, rear side, broad side, rinse and repeat with some heals.

    If you're really going to hormonal rage like a two year old not getting a piece of candy every time you go to the store then just do it the easy way and switch to invincible mode by pressing and holding ALT and then pressing F4. Problem solved, no nerf needed.

    All too true. I still remember the good old games like X-Wing and TIE Fighter. You got your fighter blown to pieces?? Try not to fly in straight lines, balance your shields, transfer power from lasers to shields, try to target the bomber type fighter, they carry missiles, and will blow you to tiny small pieces if you don't kill them. And do not try to be a hero and blow that Star Destroyer up. You will in most cases end up quite dead.

    Also just started playing XCOM: Enemy Unkown. Man is that game hard. Do one small thing wrong on a misson, and it can end up costing you not only in the worst case the entire mission, you can also loose a team member you have taken through the ranks, and trust me, you will feel bad when you loose a veteran team member...

    Sure some enemies in STO can be a challenge if you do not know the right tactics or have the right powers, but in most cases you can adapt by merely seeing what the bad guys do, and try to adapt, but as a new player, particularly in the rommie zone, you will end up eating vaccuum more often than not.
  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    talonkuro1 wrote: »
    been doing tactics and using boff abilities and my own. If I could move some of the UI panels around, that would make life a little easier.

    Press F12. Rearrange where stuff is. Press F12 again when done.
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I must say I cannot empathize with your position.

    Leveling I had not a single problem with a D'Deridex. Sure, one might have gotten me a few times, but usually because I'd just charge in with too much heat on me.

    Not saying that these strategies are wrong, just that I didn't need anything special to take them out. Fly in, aim for the rear, blow it up, next.

    As somebody who has played many other games, leveling in STO is very easy. If you are having to work that hard to take out a leveling NPC, there must be something wrong with your general build or strategy, because you should be killing them so quickly you don't notice they are there.

    I'm not really certain what to tell you, as there are many variables, but perhaps you are over thinking things. As I said, leveling in this game is quite easy, so try to go at things more simply. Tractor messing you up? Stay more then 5k out it cant hit you. Plasma torps? Be on top of your Brace for Impact and load hazard emitters (There is a reason people consider it a necessity.) If you are going about things correctly a D'Deridex is just another mob.
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
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  • calaminthacalamintha Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I have no problem with difficulty. The problem I have specifically with the Ds, is without a specific set of strategies, they become impossible to defeat. With a simple maneuver, they can kill any ship regardless of hull/shield strength.

    Are you playing on elite difficulty? My escort (with a mix of Mk III-VI gear) just survived a D'deridex with only using auto-fire, Brace for Impact and shield distribution that everyone has.

    Do you people park right next to it without any shield repair powers or what?
  • grylakgrylak Member Posts: 1,594 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    When I first encountered a Romulan Warbird, I was still in my Connie refit (levelled high enough to get an akira, but I preferred my Connie). The thing decimated me quickly.


    Ok, try this again, this time with the ship at full strength. Lasted a bit longer, but still decimated me.



    Half an hour later of trying different tactics, the thing still wasn't dead and I was obviously getting frustrated. So I took a break from that mission and went off and did something else in game.


    Came back the next day, and still tried to fight it. Part of the reason it was taking me so long was because I hadn't got very high equipment on my ship, still being fairly new. But, eventually, the thing exploded. There was much, much cheering at that point. It was a sense of satisfaction, of accomplishment, that I had been able to defeat this tough enemy. I had earned that mission progression. I remembered the stratagy, and although the next warbird still gave me trouble, I was able to use teh tactics I had learnt on it.



    Romulans are my favourite ships to fight in this game, because they require some thought and stratagy, rather than just sit there blasting them into oblivion.
    *******************************************

    A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Um, leave the Romulan ships alone. They are the only real challenge in the game, an enemy that actually thinks and makes me think about the best way to take them out....
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • biersteinbierstein Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ...because? :confused:

    I love fighting Rommies. Their hilariously useless plasma pinballs always make my day. You have to love a civilization that designs a weapon that destroys their own ships 90% of the time.
    This. I'm new and at first myself and the other person I play with thought it was a bug, then we realized they were homing on the closest target, after that we just exploited the fact by fighting at long range with me using excessive torpedoes and laughing as they blew the TRIBBLE out of themselves/eachother. Anyways I always fight on the hardest setting and have yet to have a problem. They were a little tough before 40 but after that a cakewalk. Still working my way up but those torpedoes of theirs...Simply amusing. Challenges should never be removed from games, that's part of the problem with a lot of games these days, people demand easy mode.
    otowi wrote: »
    All too true. I still remember the good old games like X-Wing and TIE Fighter. You got your fighter blown to pieces?? Try not to fly in straight lines, balance your shields, transfer power from lasers to shields, try to target the bomber type fighter, they carry missiles, and will blow you to tiny small pieces if you don't kill them. And do not try to be a hero and blow that Star Destroyer up. You will in most cases end up quite dead.

    Also just started playing XCOM: Enemy Unkown. Man is that game hard. Do one small thing wrong on a misson, and it can end up costing you not only in the worst case the entire mission, you can also loose a team member you have taken through the ranks, and trust me, you will feel bad when you loose a veteran team member...

    Sure some enemies in STO can be a challenge if you do not know the right tactics or have the right powers, but in most cases you can adapt by merely seeing what the bad guys do, and try to adapt, but as a new player, particularly in the rommie zone, you will end up eating vaccuum more often than not.


    X-wing was hard, Tie Fighter was total easy mode.
  • opheliadraegonneopheliadraegonne Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Now yes, with a very set strategy. The Ds become much easier. Still a challenge, but no where near unbeatable. The problem is that strategy is neither obvious nor easily deduced. Considering the level a player is at when doing the Romulan missions, I think it is fair to look at these ships and see if something can't be done to make it more obvious to the player what needs to be done.

    having to fight the same guy for 30 minutes and getting no one is far from raging like a two year old.

    How is it not easy to deduce?

    Tractor beams have a 5 KM range

    Plasma torp spreads are slow, and you know from how your own ship is built that they will have a specific firing Arc.

    Those are both very basic to the game, and if you do not grasp that by the time you are doing these missions then there is something really wrong.

    I died badly to them for about half a day, and would have figured it out sooner if the rest of the early game wasn't so easy I was on autopilot.

    Which I think is where the real problem is, because the game is generally so easy most of the time it will baffle even smart players when it suddenly is hard.
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    There is something to that logic, certainly.

    I notice it when I compare ESTF to anything else. In anything else (unless I'm in Starbase 24 firing AE off and agroing half the map...) NPCs cannot scratch me. My shields don't twitch. Every so often I have to fire of HE to clear a plasma or something, but even then most of the time I can just fly thru.

    Hop into ESTF and there are suddenly mobs that can actually do damage to me and one shot torps.

    *shrug* You get used to it, because even ESTF isn't that hard, you just need to be on your toes and actually use the heals you loaded.

    Edit: and No Win... but it is kinda designed to kill you.
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
    kimmym_5664.jpg
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  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    Um, leave the Romulan ships alone. They are the only real challenge in the game, an enemy that actually thinks and makes me think about the best way to take them out....

    While I fully agree, the only caveat I will put on this is that when people first encounter Romulan ships they don't always have the full range of abilities necessary to counter said NPCs tactics.

    I can understand how that would get frustrating. With luck, and a full Romulan ship progession tree, they'll be switched to something akin to the Klingons: lower tier enemies not having all the bells and whistles and being a bit easier for lower level players to deal with, but higher tier ones being the exact same as what we have now.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    People have trouble with Romulan ships?
    At least you can see their torpedoes..
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    People have trouble with Romulan ships?
    At least you can see their torpedoes..

    Hehehehe I don't know if it is just the fact that I'm not done my first cup of coffee, but I'm still giggling over this.
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
    kimmym_5664.jpg
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  • a3001a3001 Member Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    voicesdark wrote: »
    Seriously unless it's an Elite STF there's nothing really all that hard about this game.

    to digress, Elite STFs are pretty easy once you find a competent team. Even easier if you stick with them and turn it into clockwork.
    Rejoice JJ Trek people....

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253

    Why are you not rejoicing?
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    a3001 wrote: »
    to digress, Elite STFs are pretty easy once you find a competent team. Even easier if you stick with them and turn it into clockwork.
    I watched a YouTube video of someone in a Jem Carrier doing Infected Elite all by himself - and he only missed the bonus by a couple of minutes. You don't even need a competent team. He would have had the bonus if there were even 1 more ship helping him. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    While I fully agree, the only caveat I will put on this is that when people first encounter Romulan ships they don't always have the full range of abilities necessary to counter said NPCs tactics.

    I can understand how that would get frustrating. With luck, and a full Romulan ship progession tree, they'll be switched to something akin to the Klingons: lower tier enemies not having all the bells and whistles and being a bit easier for lower level players to deal with, but higher tier ones being the exact same as what we have now.

    When you put it that way, I agree.
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





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