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Warp Core ?
borgresearcher
Member Posts: 451 Arc User
few days ago i read something about a new type of gear, the warp core, and this night i couldnt sleep thinking about the effect this could make in the unbalanced and stupid pvp system, that is all about tacticals.
tacticals are op compared to other classes, the devs can't see this because they screwed up with other type of things, tactical team having the auto shield reroute, that causes all players to use tt in a viable pvp build, making fire on my mark a weak version of sensor scan, i wonder what if all people used 2 copies of science team, and the effect it would have on subnuke and sensor scan, all of tactical captain skills are capable of boosting every single damage type, from repulsors to feedback pulse, dual heavy cannons, torpedos, isometric charge, etc etc, and the only way engineers can boost their damage, is ... well, the only thing i can see here is sensor scan, but if this game were balanced, people should use science team as often as tactical team, and that would be an issue for science officer, more than it is right now, when tacticals started to do science's job better than scientists, what the devs did ? nerf science skills.
i am a science officer, in a vesta, using a plasma/transphasic torpedo boat build, and honestly, im just waiting for the cluster and feedbackpulse nerf, because they forgot that tacticals can boost mines and torpedoe's damage, by putting its mind power in the wires of the mine, causing that to explode harder, tacticals can do any job, they can zombie tank in a recluse, and they can spike dmg in bops, they can pvp better than sci ships because of apo, and they can tank better than engineers because of procs, and all their skills are usefull, i mean, very usefull compared to nadion inversion and eps power transfer or photonic fleet, engineering fleet is laughable compared to sci fleet and tac fleet as well,
why people dont choose cruisers ( the mother of the battle ships, the front line combat vessels ) instead of those little mosquitos called ... escorts ? used to escort vips ?
no, its not about the beam suckage, its about energy. yes, the warp core.
yesterday i downloaded star trek bridge commander, and ... wooowww ... that, yes is pvp,
during the battle you loose energy, you have to place yourself in the right place, torpedoes use energy as well, but not as much as beams, but they need more time to recharge, letting you to play a little more with your weapon layout, spike damage = less combat durability due to higher energy consumption, and the use of beams instead of dual heavy cannons, causing higher combat durability, due to less energy consumption, if there were warp cores in star trek online, making escorts with the worse warp core rate, science vessels with medium energy, and cruisers with the bigger warp cores, that would cause cruisers to last longer in battle, because their subsystems wouldnt loose as much energy as escort would, so cruisers would be viable again in pvp, as well as nadion inversion, and eps power transfer, and engineering consoles, making ships with more than 3 eng console slots usefull.
a spike strike will consume lots of energy, and high dps builds wouldn't last as much as cruisers, so any ship, will one way or another actually,,, end up, no more zombie tanking recluses, and no more alpha strikes each 30 seconds
for example a fleet star cruiser's with 100 weapons and 50 shields, past 1 minute of combat, the warp core looses 30 energy, those less 30 energy, you would have to compensate on weapons to have 95 weapons and 25 shields, or in shields to have 50 shields and 70 weapons, if the battle lasts too long, the escort, which is the one with more damage, should become out of energy if he doesnt kill the cruiser fast enough
people in pvp should start making new builds, with torpedos and beams, torpedos with few energy consumption, and beams with better arcs, in the case if your engines are our of energy
maco warp core for example
150 energy power
x+ weapon power
x+ shields power ( modified by epts, eps power transfer, maco shield )
x+engines power
x+aux power (these would be the ones you have on your skills)
7.5? power recharge per second ( electro plasma systems ) modified by engineering consoles, nadion inversion, marion, etc etc
khg warp core
less energy cap, but higher regeneration, causing weapon power to regenerate faster for example
subsystem disables shouldn't mess with warp cores, because the crew in the ship will fix the subsystem, just the way it is right now
about energy drain, the warp core should be capable of recharging all the power lost, the crew in the ship should be capable of fixing the warp core's ... leak ?
tell me if im wrong, but this may be the balance we need in the game
the site were i read this
http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news/an-interview-with-star-trek-online-executive-producer/
and here is dstahl's post
[DSTAHL] With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight.
tacticals are op compared to other classes, the devs can't see this because they screwed up with other type of things, tactical team having the auto shield reroute, that causes all players to use tt in a viable pvp build, making fire on my mark a weak version of sensor scan, i wonder what if all people used 2 copies of science team, and the effect it would have on subnuke and sensor scan, all of tactical captain skills are capable of boosting every single damage type, from repulsors to feedback pulse, dual heavy cannons, torpedos, isometric charge, etc etc, and the only way engineers can boost their damage, is ... well, the only thing i can see here is sensor scan, but if this game were balanced, people should use science team as often as tactical team, and that would be an issue for science officer, more than it is right now, when tacticals started to do science's job better than scientists, what the devs did ? nerf science skills.
i am a science officer, in a vesta, using a plasma/transphasic torpedo boat build, and honestly, im just waiting for the cluster and feedbackpulse nerf, because they forgot that tacticals can boost mines and torpedoe's damage, by putting its mind power in the wires of the mine, causing that to explode harder, tacticals can do any job, they can zombie tank in a recluse, and they can spike dmg in bops, they can pvp better than sci ships because of apo, and they can tank better than engineers because of procs, and all their skills are usefull, i mean, very usefull compared to nadion inversion and eps power transfer or photonic fleet, engineering fleet is laughable compared to sci fleet and tac fleet as well,
why people dont choose cruisers ( the mother of the battle ships, the front line combat vessels ) instead of those little mosquitos called ... escorts ? used to escort vips ?
no, its not about the beam suckage, its about energy. yes, the warp core.
yesterday i downloaded star trek bridge commander, and ... wooowww ... that, yes is pvp,
during the battle you loose energy, you have to place yourself in the right place, torpedoes use energy as well, but not as much as beams, but they need more time to recharge, letting you to play a little more with your weapon layout, spike damage = less combat durability due to higher energy consumption, and the use of beams instead of dual heavy cannons, causing higher combat durability, due to less energy consumption, if there were warp cores in star trek online, making escorts with the worse warp core rate, science vessels with medium energy, and cruisers with the bigger warp cores, that would cause cruisers to last longer in battle, because their subsystems wouldnt loose as much energy as escort would, so cruisers would be viable again in pvp, as well as nadion inversion, and eps power transfer, and engineering consoles, making ships with more than 3 eng console slots usefull.
a spike strike will consume lots of energy, and high dps builds wouldn't last as much as cruisers, so any ship, will one way or another actually,,, end up, no more zombie tanking recluses, and no more alpha strikes each 30 seconds
for example a fleet star cruiser's with 100 weapons and 50 shields, past 1 minute of combat, the warp core looses 30 energy, those less 30 energy, you would have to compensate on weapons to have 95 weapons and 25 shields, or in shields to have 50 shields and 70 weapons, if the battle lasts too long, the escort, which is the one with more damage, should become out of energy if he doesnt kill the cruiser fast enough
people in pvp should start making new builds, with torpedos and beams, torpedos with few energy consumption, and beams with better arcs, in the case if your engines are our of energy
maco warp core for example
150 energy power
x+ weapon power
x+ shields power ( modified by epts, eps power transfer, maco shield )
x+engines power
x+aux power (these would be the ones you have on your skills)
7.5? power recharge per second ( electro plasma systems ) modified by engineering consoles, nadion inversion, marion, etc etc
khg warp core
less energy cap, but higher regeneration, causing weapon power to regenerate faster for example
subsystem disables shouldn't mess with warp cores, because the crew in the ship will fix the subsystem, just the way it is right now
about energy drain, the warp core should be capable of recharging all the power lost, the crew in the ship should be capable of fixing the warp core's ... leak ?
tell me if im wrong, but this may be the balance we need in the game
the site were i read this
http://www.gamersbook.com/scene/news/an-interview-with-star-trek-online-executive-producer/
and here is dstahl's post
[DSTAHL] With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Also, keep in mind it's a Stahl comment. A somewhat cynical manner to look at the comments by Stahl and Geko is the following:
Stahl - things you want to hear about that are never going to happen
Geko - things you do not want to hear about that are going to happen
I mean, think about that comment:
"With the constant flow of new ships coming out of the shipyards, our next major update to ships will be to incorporate warp core design into how a ship performs in combat and what types of power it can bring to a fight."
There's all sorts of speculation about what it means.
Will there be different sized Warp Cores? Is it a case of looking at perhaps Science having the standard warp core (1.0 modifier) while Escorts have smaller cores (<1.0 modifier) and Cruisers have larger cores (>1.0 modifier) sort of thing?
Will it be ship independent? Will there be Tac Cores, Eng Cores, and Sci Cores that you can use to customize the potential power levels you can have regardless of ship?
Will it be a combination?
And of course - will it be free TRIBBLE cores and better cores available through Dil, Zen, Lobi? Is it just another P2W money grab?
I commented in one thread about it - wondering if Stahl and Geko had been playing EVE lately. With the mention of Warp Cores (Powergrid) and Computers (CPU) - as well as the mention of several other things - are we on the frontier of a PWE P2W EVElite version of STO?
efficient warp core with more subsystem bonus, regenerative warp core with more power recharge, and something like a resillient version of a warp core, with resistance to power drains or something, modified differently by electro-plasma systems and efficiency captain skills, as well as the ship it is fitted in, the same way the turn rate and shield is modified by ship's rates
and yes, escorts with less warp core rates but of course more power recharge to weapons, science vessels with an average rate and cruisers with the highest rates, lasting longer in the combat, for example, against an escort, just save your energy making weak attacks, putting it on shields for some minutes, when the escort is out of energy, full on weapons and finish it
this would make an all new interesting pvp strategy no ?
for a alpha build, get yourself a warp core with more weapon's cap or recharge
for example, the partol escort would have a 0.8 warp core mod
and the defiant a 0.7
the nebula class would have a bigger warp core mod compared to intrepid or wells since it is an engineering hybrid of a science vessel, causing it to be a viable choice in pvp too, jem dread with a weak warp core mod since it is a tactical ship for example, i mean, pvp is all about tanking and dmging, thats wrong ... this may be what it needs for us to see cruisers lasting longer than other ships
4 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets ? your ship wont do it if you cant kill your enemy in 5 minutes
why not 2 dual cannon giving more procs and less drain, 1 turret, and 1 torpedo in front/ 2 turrets 1 torpedo aft ? much more energy efficient, with the capacity to attack in a bigger arc in the case your engines are out. less dmg but more durability, this would let weapons with less dmg to be valueable in pvp too
i know it is just speculation, and it requires some reprogramming, but damn, that would be just what i would like to see in a pvp: engineers viable for pvp with nadion inversion and eps power transfer really making something, no more zombie tank, alpha strikes with some cost of opportunity... and the cherry on top of a game with the potencial to be a better game
Heh, that's so very true.
Warp core+Jemmie roachmobile (err, the attack fighter/bugship)
..Need I really say any more?
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I also got a chuckle out of "tacticals are op compared to other classes." Just sayin'.
I also think Science would have the highest producing warp cores then cruisers. The idea that a vessel class denotes warpcore size is a little skewed. Most cruisers and all science have power requirements beyond a set class that drain resources while escorts tend to be built to a single purpose and do not have such draining extra sources.
If the use of them doesnt take that into consideration then things may just be that much more unbalanced in some fashion.
R.I.P
You'd have to do size-based balancing all at once. Inertia, would be one such aspect, turn rate being another.
Then you think about where you can use what kind of ship. Good for defending a point, terrible for capturing one, since the frigates all got there before you even made it to full impulse.
aren't they ?
and virusdancer, how could a warp core integration unbalance things ?
Not even kind of. A Science Cappy is, all around, a far more powerful Captain mechanically speaking in PvP. Sensor Scan is an AoE hull DR debuff that is usually much stickier than FOMM (and with a doff can cut an affected target's damage output by a little over 33%), Scattering Field is a respectable radius massive hull DR buff vs Energy Weapon damage, Science Fleet is a team-wide 33% DR buff that also buffs the strength of shield heals... and then there's Sub-Nucleonic Beam which peels most buffs off a target and extends any powers the target already has on cooldown by up to 30 seconds.
The only reason Tactical Captains seem overpowered is that they do exactly what the class was intended to do (as do Science Captains) within their hyper-specialized niche.
Engineers, by comparison, under perform in PvP most because attrition has been mitigated to the point where normal healing cycles (your average EPtS roll, for example) and durability has climbed to the point where it takes a single tremendous spike of damage dealt in an amount of time that prevents reactive healing, the type which would kill an Engi just as dead as anyone else. This leads to team force multiplies (Sensor Scan, Tactical Fleet, Science Fleet, Sub-Nucleonic beam) becoming too valuable to pass up for a little bit of personal extra healing.
IME.
Main issue I believe is that before this could work as you have mentioned the vortex of crew death needs to be addressed.
Smaller ships with smaller crews benefit most because of crew regen.
But have you ever looked at ships like battlecruisers and carriers with over 2500 crew?
Most of "redshirts" perish in the first few volleys of a torp-spread.
This is the grim truth
See what I did there?
Oh... oh God. You've punned as hard as me. Reality must be broken!
....
Suddenly, the Romulan Faction and good tidings for the KDF make about one thousand times more sense.
As it stands now:
200 base power.
Can run 100/50/25/25 - or any combination. Max 100 - Min 25.
That does not account for Traits, Skills, Gear, Buffs.
There is a pseudo cap of 125 (weapon power can overcap to help offset drain).
Currently, it's not that difficult to run with 500 power (higher actually, because of overcapping weapons) for short periods of time.
So, how many different ways might they change the way power works, eh?
There's the different sized cores for different ships. What if they went with Sci having that base 200, Escorts having less, and Cruisers having more? This seems like the simplest and potentially the most trying to balance things. Escorts would get squishier for their damage while Cruisers would get tankier for their lack of damage.
What if it was a case of adjusting those caps/pseudo caps though? What if it were a case of saying the following:
150/75/100/75 for Escorts
75/150/75/100 for Cruisers
75/100/75/150 for Science
Or something along those lines?
What if it were a combination of the first two so far?
Okay then, say those are the base cores...what about upgraded cores, eh? Dil, Zen, Lobi better cores that overcome any of the "balancing" aspects and just provide certain ships with uber power?
Escorts with 200+ Weapon Power as more 5/2 Escorts are released?
With how little information has been released about what they're thinking about doing - one could err with caution and find themselves disappointed or one could /facepalm now and be relieved later when it's not as bad as it could have been.
It's Cryptic...
The Lesser aspects of the tooltips, were they implemented the way they read - it wouldn't be as bad. As it stands though, big crew's a liability from several angles when it's been made out to be a positive thing...meh.
They need to look at crew loss (alive/able), crew regeneration, Theta, and possibly even having Science BOFF abilities (Medical) that help out with crew - not just trying to pass it off on Nurses/Medics. C'mon, where's the Ship's Doctor running Medical Team, eh?
I cannot help but wonder, if the original devs that created boff skills had much deeper understanding of the game. Judging how some skill worked before.
But they haven't really explained the Singularity Cores any more than they've explained anything else.
Warbirds
Romulan captains take command of mighty Warbird Class starships. Push the engines to the limit and unleash the new and devastating powers of the Singularity Core.
Thing is, we've also got the two following things in the game:
Romulan Singularity Harness (3pc - Experimental Beam Array, Hyper-Plasma Torp, Zero-Point Energy Conduit)
Quantum Singularity Manipulation (T5 Rom Rep ability)
Given how few potential ships there appear to be for the Romulans... I mean, sure there's still 8.5 weeks or so of info they'll be giving us - but so far we've seen:
TOS BoP
BoP
Mogai
D'Deridex
Valdore-ish
So it's basically a Starter Ship, Raider, Raptor, Battle Cruiser, Zen Raptor... one can speculate about this and that, but c'mon eh?
There's around ~86 Fed ships not counting small craft.
There's around ~62 KDF ships not counting small craft.
We've seen...6. Heck, as far as NPC ships - there's really only the Scorpions, BoP, Mogai, D'Deridex, and Scimitar that could have upgraded artwork on.
Are they going to do a pseudo KDF thing?
Raider - Raptor - Battle Cruiser - Support/Sci (Zen Store)
Where the "ship" will be the same ship as you level, but you'll get "free" upgrades and "Zen" upgrades available for each rank? Are they basically going to do with the Roms what some folks wished they had done with the Feds, eh? Allow for flying that same ship from early on through your career - just a case of spending money to upgrade the ship rather than buying a new ship - where the upgrades cost somewhat less than a ship would have (but in the end would result in more money for Cryptic)...?
Then they'll add in various "special" Zen ships - maybe do a 3pack Scimitar for the Bort/Ody thing. They'll do the Time Ship/Temporal Destroyer. Possibly looking at a Flight-Deck Cruiser, Carrier, maybe even a Heavy Raptor/Destroyer Carrier, etc, etc, etc.
Will the Fleet Versions of ships actually be Fleet Upgrade Modules for the regular ships players have had?
Two months out - there's just too much room to speculate on how everything is going to work out, eh?
So until they fix the problems with science we'll continue to see major issues.
I also just love how people make the false notion that science attacks in science ships are somehow using magic, they are using scientific theory, nothing like the tactical magic I win buttons that combine both attack patterns and evasive maneuvers in the same Iwin button or get to buff damage magically by hitting a button on a console. So which is magic? I'd definitely say tactical is using magical fairy buffs.