Because instead of jumping through all of the hoops you jumped through, people can just spend money and get all that stuff.
Pay. Win.
It's not a big deal to me. It's really not a big deal to most people. It is what it is. It does exist. And lots of players don't care about it. It's like I said, have thicker skin because the insult is designed to get a rise out of people. Don't take the bait.
But also don't kid yourself into thinking you can't just pay money and get advantages or power in this game. You absolutely can.
It's just not a terribly big deal.
Just to clarify, from my point of view I didn't jump through any hoops. I played (and enjoyed playing) the game and earned rewards through not paying for it.
I don't know, guys, but this p2w vs cheapskate discussion keeps coming up, at regular intervals.
It seems there's 3 positions, generally:
a) P2w is bad; using money to get better items is deplorable and destroys equality/competition.
b) Getting everything through dil/zen exchange is bad, as it makes you a cheapskate that doesn't contribute to the game.
c) Meh, whatever. Just grind or pay for what you'd like to use and enjoy its use.
Let's just try and see if I can get some perspective on things, here. A recap of the discussions so far, if you will.
Premiss 1: this f2p game needs income to keep running
Premiss 2: items/ships/stuff are to be sold to provide income to game
Premiss 3: all items should be available to everybody, regardless of cashflow, to keep competition fair
Premiss 3a: this is facilitated through dil/zen and item/ec exchanges
Premiss 4: a good player is defined by piloting skills
Premiss 4a: between 2 players of a very similar skill level, items provide an edge
Now then, position c seems to be fine with all of these premisses, so that's easy.
Positions a and b do seem to clash with some of the premisses, here.
Position a seems to struggle with premisses 2 and 4a, mostly.
Position b seems to struggle with premisses 3 and, to some extent, 4a
Right, premisses 1, 3a and 4 are relatively undisputed, so it seems reasonable to assume there are no particular problems there.
So 2, 3 and 4a are where the discussions arise.
According to position a, subscribers to position b disrupt equal competition (3), by buying items that give them an edge over people not buying these items (4a). Not using real world currency to buy items themselves, they feel disadvantaged, because getting the same items the other people paid for in hard currency would take a lot of time for them, through in-game methods (see 3a). Some go so far as to claim that selling items giving advantage is a bad thing (2).
According to position b, subscribers to position a are bad for the game because they do participate and play, but do not invest the money into the game that is needed for its continued existence (1 & 2). In response to accusations of disrupting balance by buying items, they often refute these accusations, by pointing out that captain skill is vastly more important (4), and that these items are generally available through in-game means (3 & 3a).
Now, here is where it gets interesting. Premiss 4a is irrelevant is we accept 3. 3 is provable by 3a, and is true.
The means of acquisition in-game are the same for everybody, and are all tied in to hard, real world currency, eg. Zen, lobi, dilithium to some extent. So, if we trace the payment for an item/ship bought by someone subscribing to position A back to the source, money was, in fact, spent. So, even if one does not spend real world money to buy items, premisses 2 and, consequently, 1 are still implicitly accepted.
Ok, so we can see that all positions/people can access all items (excluding vet ships & steamrunner), either by spending money, or by using resources earned in-game. The main point of discontent left to us is, then, the time needed to earn an item in-game vs an instant purchase.
Luckily, there's an easy resolution to that stand-off. There's two ways of looking at it.
1) The people instantly buying an item have worked for it in the real world, thus spending time on it. Granted, potentially less time, but there's the matter of opportunity cost: they can only spend the money once, and will have to work for their daily needs (and other desires) first, and are only able to work for game items after that.
2) The people getting an item through gameplay are exempt from the real world cost, thus effectively being rewarded with an item with a real world price tag, just for playing the game. One could say they are paid to play the game, even if they can't spend the currency on anything else but the ingame items.
Hm. It seems I got carried away, ever so slightly. While I'm on a roll, I'll take a quick look at some of the larger global problems now.
TL;DR: You can pay for an item either in time or in money. In one case you get an hourly wage in dil/ec, in the other you are paid in your local currency. Up to you to decide which means you find more enjoyable and practical.
TL;DR: You can pay for an item either in time or in money. In one case you get an hourly wage in dil/ec, in the other you are paid in your local currency. Up to you to decide which means you find more enjoyable and practical.
Actually I would go so far to argue that Time gets you more than Real Life Money, real life money cant buy reputation tiers (and associated powers), real life money can't buy you fleet items or progression, only grind time can do that.
If anything if you're cash rich and time poor this game's economy works against you. Unless of course you are stupidly rich and send 500k Cheque to Cryptic for a T5 base with all the trimmings.:D
Fyi, chess tourneys are moderated. There's a set of restrictions/rules etc. Though you are correct there's no mechanic in chess tourney's that allows for people to pay for advantages like you can in this game. The time aspect does apply since in the case I mentioned the time to promote the pawns was sped up vs having to actually move get them to the last rank.
It gets to his question imo better than the sneaker/shoe example since it better demonstrates the power creep in this game. Being up a queen, being the most powerful piece, doesn't mean victory. But all other things being equal I'd rather be in the position to have 1 or more when the other side doesn't. But, if I play poorly I could still get back row mated for example.
Imo, PvE is so weak many players don't know the game. To take the analogy further, would you bet on the player who starts down a rook as a handicap, but is well trained in the various techniques of chess or the player who is up a rook, but just learned how the pieces move, hasn't played a game, and therefore doesn't know anything else about tactics or strategies of chess? I'd take the player who has the knowledge of the game. This is what it's like for new players in PvP, but instead of getting a handicap, they're the ones starting down a piece or more b/c of the time gating.
i still think "promoting pawns to queens" is a bad premise for a metaphor. again, because there's no mechanic in chess that allows that. it should still be a pawn. just a shiny gold plated pawn that makes awesome sound effects when you move it. oh, and if it encounters something which would normally kill it, it survives 15% longer but still dies (aparrently that's the buff...i dunno if i believe that for sure, but i dont' feel like arguing that point). if you added a mechanic to chess that allows you to upgrade a pawn to a queen after every month spent playing the game, then i might accept that metaphor.
Whenever someone shouts, "P2W!" at me, my standard answer is, "You're welcome!" If no one ever spent any Real Money on this game, PWE/Cryptic would have no reason to continue the game. Attention, people! PWE/Cryptic are in the entertainment business! To a lot of us STO is just a game. To PWE/Cryptic, this is a revenuestream. They most definitely are not doing all this work out of the goodness of their heart or at the whim of some uber wealthy benefactor who has more cash than sense.
If shouting "P2W" at my Vesta(Quite a neat little ship, BTW) make you feel better about yourself, then by all means go right on ahead and do so. Who am I to deny you this small measure of happiness? But I would like to point out here you have the option to make the same choices I did in the game as regarding spending Real Money. For whatever reason, you've elected not to spend money on STO. I can understand this and respect it. There are many many things far more important than STO could ever hope to be. It is simply the way I chose to get my daily Star Trek fix. And I have decided on a few occasions to take my habit up a level or two. I really like the Vesta a great deal and decided to express this by spending Real Money.
Does my purchased ship give me a unbeatable advantage in PvP? Sadly, no. Did I know this prior to spending my discretionary income this way? Yes, I did. Do I really care someone is so deeply offended by my very presence, and that of my US $25.00 starship, they feel compelled to go out of their way to publicly belittle me? No, not really. One of the coolest things about having money is I don't have to worry at all about what others may think of me.
God Bless whomever it was who came up with the idea for the 'Ignore' button. I've nearly worn mine out, I think. And I will still spend Real Money on this game when and if I choose to do so. Because I can. Because I want to. I wear the 'P2W' badge with pride and honor. Because, thanks to those who spend Real Money, the Devs will get to continue earning their living by continuing to work on making STO. And the people who fling "P2W" about with such reckless abandon will get to keep playing STO as well. Looks like a "win-win" to me, lol
Well, you could play GW or GW2, neither of which has ever had a subscription cost. In fact, GW was one of the first games to introduce a f2p business model. Both of these games have real money stores which sell vanity and aesthetic items only. Both of these games are vastly more successful than STO is or ever will be.
So please, stop trying to pretend or rationalize that STO does not have a P2W component.
Having said that, since I avoid STFs and PVP in STO like the plague, I really couldn't care less about P2W in STO; however, I'm not naive enough to stick my head in the sand and think it's not there.
they don't have a sub, correct. they also don't sell equipment through the gem store, also true. however, you can exchange your gems for gold..with which you can buy top tier items, or the mats to make them. granted, it's a much more expensive proposition than sto's, but the same accusations could be levelled. one major difference is that gw and gw2 are designed around pvp, almost to e-sport level, and all pve content is secondary to that (so any advantage gained like this would be huge). sto is designed around pve, with pvp tacked on almost as an afterthought (so any advantage gained like this isn't so huge). would i be happier if sto were more like gw2? yeah, probably.
as far as p2w goes, again: it comes down to how much you value your time. i almost think a better metaphor would be bail. you pay money to be released so that you can do what you want with your time (within reason), or you can sit in a cell and stare at the wall until your trial. you get to the same place one way or the other, one just allows you to do it in much more confort, spending much of your time as you choose.
Being able to get something quicker by paying for it isn't Pay 2 Win. Pay 2 Win is when you can get something via money that you cannot get any other way, and that is inherently superior than any comparable item available via free means.
There is exactly one ship you can get only via payment in this game, and that's the Chimera. I don't think anybody would seriously argue that the Chimera is inherently superior to every other ship in the game.
You can buy the bug from other players in the Auction House. You can grind Dil, trade it for Zen, and buy any of the C-Store ships. People are confusing "this game is a for-profit venture, that pays developers for their work" with Pay 2 Win.
If you're wanting "there is no reason whatsoever to buy anything in this game at any time, and no way to buy anything except skins and clothes", then you're not wanting professional developers to do full time work on the game.
ok, you can get pretty much every ship by ingame means, but be honest.. they limit your daily dil, you need it for well, everything.. it would take the average player far far too long to even think about saving up enouph to get enouph zen to get the ship or item... craptic purposly did that to keep people spending money. shure, the zen in the exchange is bought by someone, but they would rather see that zen sit there, and more people just buy the zen they need (double the profit). that is why dil is attached to everything, making it hurt if you decide not to spend it..
further more, bug ships are what, 80 mil, on the exchange... ummm, most "average" like 2 or 3 times a week player, who play for maybe the hour or two they get, will never have that much energy credits.
while again, i dont blame the individual player, cryptic has created almost an exclusive economy, which is really only workable if you spend lots of cash.. or an obsene amount of time in game.. (talking 4 or 5 hours or more daily..).
i myself had to sell i think something like 80 keys to get my temporal wells classs (which cost me x amount of dil and real money.. which means i had to pay for that.. (and the stipend is a joke.. 500 zen is almost worthless, well with the rate that they come out with stuff to spend it on)..
Just to clarify, from my point of view I didn't jump through any hoops. I played (and enjoyed playing) the game and earned rewards through not paying for it.
You participated in a grind. You jumped through a hoop. This hoop can and has been skipped by many other players. In fact, because of how Dilithium to Zen works, the only way you could do what you did, is by others paying actual money to skip the grind.
I'm happy that you enjoyed your hoop, but you still jumped through it.
I disagree with this statement I would take a dps cruiser over a escort any day...problem with cruisers is most don't know how to build it properly. Anyone that wants to test my build is welcome to it. I am on daily just drop me a line.
The only thing that is arguably P2W in any form or fashion is the Jem'hadar Bugship. Every other ship is very well balanced, and I can take almost anything, from the Odyssey to the Jem'hadar Dreadnought and anything in between with my Galaxy-x. Everything, but the Jem'hadar bug that is.
how is that bug ship p2w?
In pvp if you dont know how to use your ship (fleet platrol has the same boff layout) you will die alot.Even in sci vs escort a vesta will always pop bugs.Maybe you mean "I dont have one thus is p2w" .
In PVE where dps is important the best ships are the defiant and andorian ships.
btw I used a jhas holoemitter on my patrol escort and I people said "your bug ship is OP" so I dont give not even a small amount of s*** on this bug ship is op and p2w.
What I hear mostly is not 'P2W' but more 'when I get something with Zen or Lobi,odds are good that Cryptic didn't pay much attention to game balance and QA and therefore it's most likely broken'
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
i most say im not a big pvp player for simple reason it takes to long to get a mission even when u queue for 3 different missions, but ive had people say me vesta is op. but ive had my TRIBBLE kicked by players that had the right boff skills in a lvl 40 ship with no consoles that there could not buy of the exchange its not ur ship its learning how to use it to the full.
people think there can go in to pvp with the same set up as for elite stf and come out on top but u cant because people will Know to have e.g PH so the dont get stuck in GW.
i still think "promoting pawns to queens" is a bad premise for a metaphor. again, because there's no mechanic in chess that allows that. it should still be a pawn. just a shiny gold plated pawn that makes awesome sound effects when you move it. oh, and if it encounters something which would normally kill it, it survives 15% longer but still dies (aparrently that's the buff...i dunno if i believe that for sure, but i dont' feel like arguing that point). if you added a mechanic to chess that allows you to upgrade a pawn to a queen after every month spent playing the game, then i might accept that metaphor.
... Snip ...
If you move a pawn to the last rank you get your choice of what piece to promote it to. There really is an in game mechanic to do so. In my example a player is afforded the ability of skipping the in game time in terms of turns to acquire the promotion.
Also, 15% is a gross underestimation of the overall effectiveness of the power creep in this game. This is what many seem to be missing and why I used the pawn promotion to queen as an example. It's also why I further went on w/the example of a new player who only just learned the rules vs an experienced quality player. The fact you estimate the advantage to only be 15% from the various power creep options indicates you really don't understand how bad it's gotten.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i most say im not a big pvp player for simple reason it takes to long to get a mission even when u queue for 3 different missions, but ive had people say me vesta is op. but ive had my TRIBBLE kicked by players that had the right boff skills in a lvl 40 ship with no consoles that there could not buy of the exchange its not ur ship its learning how to use it to the full.
people think there can go in to pvp with the same set up as for elite stf and come out on top but u cant because people will Know to have e.g PH so the dont get stuck in GW.
its not ur ship its how good u are
Just b/c a player isn't currently knowledgable enough to take advantage of the current power creep, it doesn't follow the power creep doesn't exist. It just means that player has a few things to learn and think about.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
If you move a pawn to the last rank you get your choice of what piece to promote it to. There really is an in game mechanic to do so. In my example a player is afforded the ability of skipping the in game time in terms of turns to acquire the promotion.
Also, 15% is a gross underestimation of the overall effectiveness of the power creep in this game. This is what many seem to be missing and why I used the pawn promotion to queen as an example. It's also why I further went on w/the example of a new player who only just learned the rules vs an experienced quality player. The fact you estimate the advantage to only be 15% from the various power creep options indicates you really don't understand how bad it's gotten.
...*reads chess rules*
well fine then. maybe it's been a long time since i actually played chess.
metaphorical objection withdrawn.
You participated in a grind. You jumped through a hoop. This hoop can and has been skipped by many other players. In fact, because of how Dilithium to Zen works, the only way you could do what you did, is by others paying actual money to skip the grind.
I'm happy that you enjoyed your hoop, but you still jumped through it.
The tone of you post, along with other posts you've made, are quite patronizing but I guess you know that.
I'm simply playing a game and enjoying it. I feel sorry for you if you feel the need to look down on me for that.
Of late I've been hearing more and more people whine, whinge and cry "you paid to win." Some of this has been directed at me, some of it has not.
To the people that use this lame catch-cry, grow up. Really. Just grow up.
Hmmm ... , while I can understand your frustration -- just remember that we all 'whine' about different stuff , stuff that more often then not seems to be important at the time .
And while it's true that some of us have been accused of immature behavior by Devs and podcasters alike , we have not curled up our tails between our legs and moved to the corner , just the opposite , we fought that much harder (or posted with renewed fever) .
The issue with P2W is as some have described already -- it's more often than not a mislabel .
But in all fairness I cannot bring myself to 'come down on ppl' for using it , when all they are doing is expressing their feeling of 'something's not right with ... item x ' .
We do the same thing when we protest our own thing . We too say 'something's not right' .
If it's ok 4 us to protest , others should have that right too -- even if they mislabel their protest .
The only thing that is arguably P2W in any form or fashion is the Jem'hadar Bugship. Every other ship is very well balanced, and I can take almost anything, from the Odyssey to the Jem'hadar Dreadnought and anything in between with my Galaxy-x. Everything, but the Jem'hadar bug that is.
LOL, you say with your Galaxy X? The most worthless , slow moving, underpowered cruiser in the game that is 3 years old?
That is like saying I can take anyone from tier 5 escorts, cruisers and sci ship with my tier 1 Light Cruiser.
The tone of you post, along with other posts you've made, are quite patronizing but I guess you know that.
I'm simply playing a game and enjoying it. I feel sorry for you if you feel the need to look down on me for that.
Not any more patronizing than your posts. You are, after all, the one saying that because you enjoy jumping through a particular hoop, that it's not jumping through a hoop. You are also the one that tried to say that because you did a boring grind for Dilithium, the system isn't pay2win, even though you could have skipped the entire grind and used money to make each purchase ... as well as the fact that the only reason you CAN grind the way you did is because others spend money to make the Zen-Dil transference even possible.
So I'm glad you enjoy your hoop jumping. But I think the tone of my post really only reflects the tone of yours.
LOL, you say with your Galaxy X? The most worthless , slow moving, underpowered cruiser in the game that is 3 years old?
That is like saying I can take anyone from tier 5 escorts, cruisers and sci ship with my tier 1 Light Cruiser.
No you cant. Quit lying to yourself.
Strong Gal-X pilots prove their mettle all the time, and then get whined at for being cheap, because they got their tail handed to them by a supposedly "worthless , slow moving, underpowered cruiser in the game that is 3 years old"
Comparing a Gal-X to a T1? Way to exaggerate. I'm sure the rest of what you say is grounded in reality, as well.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Comments
Just to clarify, from my point of view I didn't jump through any hoops. I played (and enjoyed playing) the game and earned rewards through not paying for it.
It seems there's 3 positions, generally:
a) P2w is bad; using money to get better items is deplorable and destroys equality/competition.
b) Getting everything through dil/zen exchange is bad, as it makes you a cheapskate that doesn't contribute to the game.
c) Meh, whatever. Just grind or pay for what you'd like to use and enjoy its use.
Let's just try and see if I can get some perspective on things, here. A recap of the discussions so far, if you will.
Premiss 1: this f2p game needs income to keep running
Premiss 2: items/ships/stuff are to be sold to provide income to game
Premiss 3: all items should be available to everybody, regardless of cashflow, to keep competition fair
Premiss 3a: this is facilitated through dil/zen and item/ec exchanges
Premiss 4: a good player is defined by piloting skills
Premiss 4a: between 2 players of a very similar skill level, items provide an edge
Now then, position c seems to be fine with all of these premisses, so that's easy.
Positions a and b do seem to clash with some of the premisses, here.
Position a seems to struggle with premisses 2 and 4a, mostly.
Position b seems to struggle with premisses 3 and, to some extent, 4a
Right, premisses 1, 3a and 4 are relatively undisputed, so it seems reasonable to assume there are no particular problems there.
So 2, 3 and 4a are where the discussions arise.
According to position a, subscribers to position b disrupt equal competition (3), by buying items that give them an edge over people not buying these items (4a). Not using real world currency to buy items themselves, they feel disadvantaged, because getting the same items the other people paid for in hard currency would take a lot of time for them, through in-game methods (see 3a). Some go so far as to claim that selling items giving advantage is a bad thing (2).
According to position b, subscribers to position a are bad for the game because they do participate and play, but do not invest the money into the game that is needed for its continued existence (1 & 2). In response to accusations of disrupting balance by buying items, they often refute these accusations, by pointing out that captain skill is vastly more important (4), and that these items are generally available through in-game means (3 & 3a).
Now, here is where it gets interesting. Premiss 4a is irrelevant is we accept 3. 3 is provable by 3a, and is true.
The means of acquisition in-game are the same for everybody, and are all tied in to hard, real world currency, eg. Zen, lobi, dilithium to some extent. So, if we trace the payment for an item/ship bought by someone subscribing to position A back to the source, money was, in fact, spent. So, even if one does not spend real world money to buy items, premisses 2 and, consequently, 1 are still implicitly accepted.
Ok, so we can see that all positions/people can access all items (excluding vet ships & steamrunner), either by spending money, or by using resources earned in-game. The main point of discontent left to us is, then, the time needed to earn an item in-game vs an instant purchase.
Luckily, there's an easy resolution to that stand-off. There's two ways of looking at it.
1) The people instantly buying an item have worked for it in the real world, thus spending time on it. Granted, potentially less time, but there's the matter of opportunity cost: they can only spend the money once, and will have to work for their daily needs (and other desires) first, and are only able to work for game items after that.
2) The people getting an item through gameplay are exempt from the real world cost, thus effectively being rewarded with an item with a real world price tag, just for playing the game. One could say they are paid to play the game, even if they can't spend the currency on anything else but the ingame items.
Hm. It seems I got carried away, ever so slightly. While I'm on a roll, I'll take a quick look at some of the larger global problems now.
TL;DR: You can pay for an item either in time or in money. In one case you get an hourly wage in dil/ec, in the other you are paid in your local currency. Up to you to decide which means you find more enjoyable and practical.
Actually I would go so far to argue that Time gets you more than Real Life Money, real life money cant buy reputation tiers (and associated powers), real life money can't buy you fleet items or progression, only grind time can do that.
If anything if you're cash rich and time poor this game's economy works against you. Unless of course you are stupidly rich and send 500k Cheque to Cryptic for a T5 base with all the trimmings.:D
#2311#2700#2316#2500
i still think "promoting pawns to queens" is a bad premise for a metaphor. again, because there's no mechanic in chess that allows that. it should still be a pawn. just a shiny gold plated pawn that makes awesome sound effects when you move it. oh, and if it encounters something which would normally kill it, it survives 15% longer but still dies (aparrently that's the buff...i dunno if i believe that for sure, but i dont' feel like arguing that point). if you added a mechanic to chess that allows you to upgrade a pawn to a queen after every month spent playing the game, then i might accept that metaphor.
/salute
they don't have a sub, correct. they also don't sell equipment through the gem store, also true. however, you can exchange your gems for gold..with which you can buy top tier items, or the mats to make them. granted, it's a much more expensive proposition than sto's, but the same accusations could be levelled. one major difference is that gw and gw2 are designed around pvp, almost to e-sport level, and all pve content is secondary to that (so any advantage gained like this would be huge). sto is designed around pve, with pvp tacked on almost as an afterthought (so any advantage gained like this isn't so huge). would i be happier if sto were more like gw2? yeah, probably.
as far as p2w goes, again: it comes down to how much you value your time. i almost think a better metaphor would be bail. you pay money to be released so that you can do what you want with your time (within reason), or you can sit in a cell and stare at the wall until your trial. you get to the same place one way or the other, one just allows you to do it in much more confort, spending much of your time as you choose.
ok, you can get pretty much every ship by ingame means, but be honest.. they limit your daily dil, you need it for well, everything.. it would take the average player far far too long to even think about saving up enouph to get enouph zen to get the ship or item... craptic purposly did that to keep people spending money. shure, the zen in the exchange is bought by someone, but they would rather see that zen sit there, and more people just buy the zen they need (double the profit). that is why dil is attached to everything, making it hurt if you decide not to spend it..
further more, bug ships are what, 80 mil, on the exchange... ummm, most "average" like 2 or 3 times a week player, who play for maybe the hour or two they get, will never have that much energy credits.
while again, i dont blame the individual player, cryptic has created almost an exclusive economy, which is really only workable if you spend lots of cash.. or an obsene amount of time in game.. (talking 4 or 5 hours or more daily..).
i myself had to sell i think something like 80 keys to get my temporal wells classs (which cost me x amount of dil and real money.. which means i had to pay for that.. (and the stipend is a joke.. 500 zen is almost worthless, well with the rate that they come out with stuff to spend it on)..
wow, really? i'm at work, so i can't check for sure, but if so, those came down a heck of a lot. before this re-release, they were 400-500mil
I'm happy that you enjoyed your hoop, but you still jumped through it.
Specifically this post.
^^ and there you go folks.. a DPS cruiser captain who makes possible now what you have several threads on asking for nerfs of escorts.
LEARN and quit asking for everything to be given to you on a silver platter!!!!!!
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
how is that bug ship p2w?
In pvp if you dont know how to use your ship (fleet platrol has the same boff layout) you will die alot.Even in sci vs escort a vesta will always pop bugs.Maybe you mean "I dont have one thus is p2w" .
In PVE where dps is important the best ships are the defiant and andorian ships.
btw I used a jhas holoemitter on my patrol escort and I people said "your bug ship is OP" so I dont give not even a small amount of s*** on this bug ship is op and p2w.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
people think there can go in to pvp with the same set up as for elite stf and come out on top but u cant because people will Know to have e.g PH so the dont get stuck in GW.
its not ur ship its how good u are
If you move a pawn to the last rank you get your choice of what piece to promote it to. There really is an in game mechanic to do so. In my example a player is afforded the ability of skipping the in game time in terms of turns to acquire the promotion.
Also, 15% is a gross underestimation of the overall effectiveness of the power creep in this game. This is what many seem to be missing and why I used the pawn promotion to queen as an example. It's also why I further went on w/the example of a new player who only just learned the rules vs an experienced quality player. The fact you estimate the advantage to only be 15% from the various power creep options indicates you really don't understand how bad it's gotten.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Just b/c a player isn't currently knowledgable enough to take advantage of the current power creep, it doesn't follow the power creep doesn't exist. It just means that player has a few things to learn and think about.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
...*reads chess rules*
well fine then. maybe it's been a long time since i actually played chess.
metaphorical objection withdrawn.
The tone of you post, along with other posts you've made, are quite patronizing but I guess you know that.
I'm simply playing a game and enjoying it. I feel sorry for you if you feel the need to look down on me for that.
Hmmm ... , while I can understand your frustration -- just remember that we all 'whine' about different stuff , stuff that more often then not seems to be important at the time .
And while it's true that some of us have been accused of immature behavior by Devs and podcasters alike , we have not curled up our tails between our legs and moved to the corner , just the opposite , we fought that much harder (or posted with renewed fever) .
The issue with P2W is as some have described already -- it's more often than not a mislabel .
But in all fairness I cannot bring myself to 'come down on ppl' for using it , when all they are doing is expressing their feeling of 'something's not right with ... item x ' .
We do the same thing when we protest our own thing . We too say 'something's not right' .
If it's ok 4 us to protest , others should have that right too -- even if they mislabel their protest .
LOL, you say with your Galaxy X? The most worthless , slow moving, underpowered cruiser in the game that is 3 years old?
That is like saying I can take anyone from tier 5 escorts, cruisers and sci ship with my tier 1 Light Cruiser.
No you cant. Quit lying to yourself.
So I'm glad you enjoy your hoop jumping. But I think the tone of my post really only reflects the tone of yours.
Strong Gal-X pilots prove their mettle all the time, and then get whined at for being cheap, because they got their tail handed to them by a supposedly "worthless , slow moving, underpowered cruiser in the game that is 3 years old"
Comparing a Gal-X to a T1? Way to exaggerate. I'm sure the rest of what you say is grounded in reality, as well.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard