Would you accept a downsized Ent-J?

collegepark2151

So we've been told that the Enterprise-J can not be included for various game breaking reasons due to it's immense size (approx. 2 miles long). Maybe also some licensing issues, I can't remember.

Anyway, assuming there were no licensing issues, would you like to see an Ent-J scaled down to approximately the size of the Ent-F so as to avoid game-breaking size issues? Or would that just be too much?

snoggymack22

That ruins the point of the ship doesn't it? The reason it's so big is because it's moving that large a community through space exploration.

admiralq1732

Simply to answer NO

misterde3

We already have that: it's called "Patrol Escort".
No thank you.

capnmanx

That thing is so spindly looking, that its sheer size was the only thing that made it believable. If it was the same size as a normal ship, I'd expect those nacelles to snap right off; and the saucer would look like it only has room for a single deck.

I wouldn't object to something based on the Ent-J; but just scaling the original down wouldn't work.

cidstorm

I always forget that the Enterprise J is my least favorite enterprise and not the JJ prise. No thanks, but it might be cool as an npc in a mission or something.

kimmym

If the game were to progress to a point where we needed a new Enterprise, I could see the next one starting to show design decisions that would be moving to the Ent-J. That would make sense.

What I would really like to see is a mission where the Ent-J was there as part of the scenery and rendered at full scale. It would essentially be sitting in space like DS-9 with a battle going on around it, but I think that would be totally epic.

hravik

No thank you, that thing looks like a pizza cutter with warp engines.

bohiap

I've always thought the thing was flat out ugly and way to skinny in some places. It doesn't matter how big it is. I would prefer to think that the Enterprise-J we saw occurred in an alternate timeline that vanished when the Xindi arc ended.

meurik

collegepark2151 wrote: »

... snip ...

I would not accept an Ent-J in any capacity or size. Already ridiculous enough with all the timeships flying around, and no Temporal Investigations Agents, cleaning up the mess.

Add to that, the Enterprise-J is one of THE ugliest starships ever to grace the tv-screens. It is by far, the ugliest "Enterprise" in Star Trek history. The "XCV" ring ship seen in The Motion Picture was clearly alot better looking than the Enterprise-J.

No thanks.

mondoid

There are still two more Enterprises to see before we get the J.

f9thaceshigh

it's not just the fact that it is too huge to put in the game, CBS insisted that if Cryptic put it in the game it must be that big. They can't do it any smaller.

mondoid

Given that the whole Enterprise series was a holo novel to serve as a background for the chef Riker, its possible that the Enterprise J was a plot device that never existed or will exist.

I'm kind of getting sick of the show ships getting in the game with better stats than the new ships. An ancient excelsior class (refit) should not perform better than a star cruiser, assault cruiser, galaxy or galaxy-x. My free Ambassador refit is the best ship I've had so far (fed side) and I'm looking into the Fleet Ambassador. Is it really so hard to make a Fed cruiser that match a Nehg'var or Vor'cha?

admiralq1732

mondoid wrote: »

Is it really so hard to make a Fed cruiser that match a Nehg'var or Vor'cha?

No they're just lazy

proteus22

how about not as a playable ship but maybe as a derelict to explore like a cround based dventure zone and a shuttle craft or eva suit map. maybe the tholians snagged one of that class and is tryig to steal weapons tech your job under orders fromstarfleet is to scuttle her to protect temporal prime directive

dracondarknight

mondoid wrote: »

Given that the whole Enterprise series was a holo novel to serve as a background for the chef Riker, its possible that the Enterprise J was a plot device that never existed or will exist.

Actually only the last one or two episode were...

misterde3

dracondarknight wrote: »

Actually only the last one or two episode were...

Considering Archer and his crew were never referenced by the others in any way...how can you be sure?;)

Remember in DS9:"Trials and Tribble-ations" Sisko said "This was the first Enterprise, Constitution class".
They also said there were "six" Entrprises, which counting the E-E, is right without the NX.

And never in that episode did they say "U.S.S. Enterprise", something that might otherwise allow people to pull some kind of loophole out of their aft thruster array.

meurik

misterde3 wrote: »

Considering Archer and his crew were never referenced by the others in any way...how can you be sure?;)

Remember in DS9:"Trials and Tribble-ations" Sisko said "This was the first Enterprise, Constitution class".
They also said there were "six" Entrprises, which counting the E-E, is right without the NX.

And never in that episode did they say "U.S.S. Enterprise", something that might otherwise allow people to pull some kind of loophole out of their aft thruster array.

Voyager never referenced the Earth-Romulan War, yet we know it happened. DS9 never referenced first contact between humanity and Vulcan, yet we know it happened.

As for justification about the "six" Enterprises, the NX-01 was not a Federation ship. There are 6 Federation starship "Enterprise", ranging from 1701 to 1701-E. But the NX-01 predates the formation of the Federation.

Thou I suppose you got me, when it comes to the NX-01A (aka Dauntless) which was a faked Starfleet ship seen in Voyager, and where nobody complained about it's name being Dauntless, and not Enterprise.

baudl

i'm not sure what the cause is for people to allways want things to be enormous. Is this some sort of subconcious compensation issue a la S. Freud, or are people just conditioned to everything in "supersize" a la McD?

personally i think putting all those ships out of those different time periods/alternate universes has already "spoiled the soup". But on the otherhand there is no emersive story whatsoever in STOs endgame (Stfs are the best example, oh wait that is the only endgame actually) so who cares.

misterde3

meurik wrote: »

Voyager never referenced the Earth-Romulan War, yet we know it happened. DS9 never referenced first contact between humanity and Vulcan, yet we know it happened.

As for justification about the "six" Enterprises, the NX-01 was not a Federation ship. There are 6 Federation starship "Enterprise", ranging from 1701 to 1701-E. But the NX-01 predates the formation of the Federation.

Thou I suppose you got me, when it comes to the NX-01A (aka Dauntless) which was a faked Starfleet ship seen in Voyager, and where nobody complained about it's name being Dauntless, and not Enterprise.

I think you misunderstand:
"U.S.S Enterprise" would only count the Federation ships, like you said.
But that's not what they said in that episode, they always only said "Enterprise".
On the other hand "Enterprise" would have to count all spaceships with that name, since the Defiant could have just as easily ended up in the 22nd century.
It was not even clear at that point in the story at which point in time they were.
[The prototype orbiter obviously doesn't count since it was never in space.]
So as I said that loophole does not work here.:)

But good point with the Dauntless, didn't actually think of that one.

Oh, BTW if a topic isn't mentioned because it never comes up it's one thing.
If something is never mentioned even though it would have been actually necessary to clarify the situation...that's a whole different story isn't it?;)

squidheadjax

meurik wrote: »

I would not accept an Ent-J in any capacity or size. Already ridiculous enough with all the timeships flying around, and no Temporal Investigations Agents, cleaning up the mess.

Add to that, the Enterprise-J is one of THE ugliest starships ever to grace the tv-screens. It is by far, the ugliest "Enterprise" in Star Trek history. The "XCV" ring ship seen in The Motion Picture was clearly alot better looking than the Enterprise-J.

No thanks.

I concur.

Then again, since we're already way past ridiculousness, I can't help but feel like the only reasonable response is now, "whatever, put the stupid thing in".

admiralq1732

misterde3 wrote: »

I think you misunderstand:
"U.S.S Enterprise" would only count the Federation ships, like you said.
But that's not what they said in that episode, they always only said "Enterprise".
On the other hand "Enterprise" would have to count all spaceships with that name, since the Defiant could have just as easily ended up in the 22nd century.
It was not even clear at that point in the story at which point in time they were.
[The prototype orbiter obviously doesn't count since it was never in space.]
So as I said that loophole does not work here.:)

But good point with the Dauntless, didn't actually think of that one.

Oh, BTW if a topic isn't mentioned because it never comes up it's one thing.
If something is never mentioned even though it would have been actually necessary to clarify the situation...that's a whole different story isn't it?;)

The Key issue is the fact that DS9 was made before Enterprise so no knowledge of that ship. Another key continuity problem. I let it slide to the simple fact that Ent is another timeline. (Yes JJ not a new concept.) they difference is that everything we saw for the most part in trek before still happened.

kimmym

Hehe, one of the first rules of fiction and games is if it is fun, it doesn't matter if its realistic.

Yes, the temporal prime directive has been shot to hell and back, but a battle where we were flying around a huge Ent-J in a massive space battle with her blasting things with us... Oh my that would be a fun fleet action or fleet event or stf or... wouldn't matter it would just be epic.

dashuk2381

Um no....

Simply put that ship makes the JJprise abomination look like a classic design.

If they want to do another Enterprise already just re-fit/retro-fit the Odyssey and clean up that stupid looking double neck and trim down the secondary hull a bit(the ship looks like it's pregnant), not to mention sleeker looking pylons and stop having the beam arrays fire from the ends of the nacelles. They have a lot more work to do on the current Enterprise before they start worrying about another one.

meurik

admiralq1732 wrote: »

The Key issue is the fact that DS9 was made before Enterprise so no knowledge of that ship. Another key continuity problem. I let it slide to the simple fact that Ent is another timeline. (Yes JJ not a new concept.) they difference is that everything we saw for the most part in trek before still happened.

Correct.

The way I see it, is that the "ENT" timeline was established already during the First Contact movie. The Enterprise-E's interference in preventing the Borg from assimilating Earth, assisting Cochrane in his first warp flight, revealing the existence of both "cybernetic creatures from the future" as well as the name of their ship. It's entirely possible that the first "Warp 5" ship, let's call it the NX-01, was originally supposed to be named Dauntless. It's also entirely possible, that the method used for time travel, allowed the Enterprise-E to return to it's original timeline, and not a "future version of the new timeline".

In any case, in reality the Enterprise tv-series wasn't even a thought in the creators minds, when DS9 was being aired. The line of "6 Enterprises" as well as the Constitution Class being the "first" was written long before the first episode of ENT ever aired. Another poor example of continuity, is when comparing Star Trek: Generations, with the TNG episode 'Relics'. In Generations, Scotty saw quite clearly that Kirk was for all intents and purposes, dead. Yet in Relics, he's under the impression that Kirk was still very much alive. The events of Relics (both when Scotty sealed himself in a transporter buffer, as well as TNG-era) clearly take place post-Enterprise-B launch (and the assumed death of Kirk).

So in summary to timeline issue, I see we have 2 of them...

1. Unaltered timeline ranging from TOS to VOY
2. Altered timeline, originating in First Contact, and culminating in the 2009 movie

Establishing that ENT is part of an altered timeline, fits nicely with what was said during First Contact, as well as the 2009 movie (Admiral Archer's beagle for instance). The knowledge of these "cybernetic creatures from the future", would also be enough cause for Starfleet to accelerate their technological advancement, to face the potential threat of enslavement by the Borg. Add to that, the destruction of the USS Kelvin at the hands of Nero (commanding a single large Romulan vessel). Boom! Advanced ships in the 2009 movie explained...

orondis

dashuk2381 wrote: »

Um no....

Simply put that ship makes the JJprise abomination look like a classic design.

I really have to agree. Ent-J is seriously ugly.

admiralq1732

meurik wrote: »

Correct.

The way I see it, is that the "ENT" timeline was established already during the First Contact movie. The Enterprise-E's interference in preventing the Borg from assimilating Earth, assisting Cochrane in his first warp flight, revealing the existence of both "cybernetic creatures from the future" as well as the name of their ship. It's entirely possible that the first "Warp 5" ship, let's call it the NX-01, was originally supposed to be named Dauntless. It's also entirely possible, that the method used for time travel, allowed the Enterprise-E to return to it's original timeline, and not a "future version of the new timeline".

In any case, in reality the Enterprise tv-series wasn't even a thought in the creators minds, when DS9 was being aired. The line of "6 Enterprises" as well as the Constitution Class being the "first" was written long before the first episode of ENT ever aired. Another poor example of continuity, is when comparing Star Trek: Generations, with the TNG episode 'Relics'. In Generations, Scotty saw quite clearly that Kirk was for all intents and purposes, dead. Yet in Relics, he's under the impression that Kirk was still very much alive. The events of Relics (both when Scotty sealed himself in a transporter buffer, as well as TNG-era) clearly take place post-Enterprise-B launch (and the assumed death of Kirk).

So in summary to timeline issue, I see we have 2 of them...

1. Unaltered timeline ranging from TOS to VOY
2. Altered timeline, originating in First Contact, and culminating in the 2009 movie

Establishing that ENT is part of an altered timeline, fits nicely with what was said during First Contact, as well as the 2009 movie (Admiral Archer's beagle for instance). The knowledge of these "cybernetic creatures from the future", would also be enough cause for Starfleet to accelerate their technological advancement, to face the potential threat of enslavement by the Borg. Add to that, the destruction of the USS Kelvin at the hands of Nero (commanding a single large Romulan vessel). Boom! Advanced ships in the 2009 movie explained...

Well the book engines of Destiny says that Scotty was dizzy coming out of that transport so he didn't remember Kirk was dead till later.

istvaanshogaatsu

Don't worry, chaps. You'll get your Enterprise-J. I guarantee it.

Why?

Because many of you would pay for it.

Let me give you my prediction for STO's future... after the Iconian storyline draws to a close, we'll need to go somewhere higher, somewhere further to get our awesome gear.

Where's that?

Oh yeah, the freakin' FUTURE. We're already bringing ships from the future back to present day, and I figure that's just getting started. What I foresee instead, is STFs set in the future, with a chance to earn even better ships than the Mobius etc. After all, that XVI gear has to come from somewhere... tee hee hee.

(Best of all, the future is an excellent source for UNLICENCED starship designs... anyone remember Daniels' database? All those pretty future ships? Yeaaaaaaah.)

skyranger1414

While I find the ship an insult to good taste (it makes the Galaxy and even the Ambassador classes look good by comparison) I think it might make a good objective or setting in a temporal mission or PvP map....for shuttles.

Imagine this, you can fight in a space map that is composed of debris from a J class. The pieces would be so large it'd be actual space terrain for shuttle class ships! It can work for PvP and PvE.

albertwesker45

i wouldn't mind seeing a ship Costume on Cryptic store for the Constitutions Class refit of the TMP/WOK paint job even the star trek Nemesis Sovereign class paint.

wildweasal

bohiap wrote: »

I've always thought the thing was flat out ugly and way to skinny in some places. It doesn't matter how big it is. I would prefer to think that the Enterprise-J we saw occurred in an alternate timeline that vanished when the Xindi arc ended.

I like this idea much better than the OPs